Child Abuse
Grendel
All that is fear... Join Date: 2002-07-19 Member: 970Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, NS2 Playtester
All that is fear... Join Date: 2002-07-19 Member: 970Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, NS2 Playtester
in Discussions
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When I think about it I would probably classify it as a prepubescent child. After all, according to law in most US states, an 18 yr old is an adult and a 17 yr old is a child. Generally once a child has passed puberty I would put it down as stachetory rape.
As for what to do with paedophiles?
Depends, have they done anything illegal? Simply having thoughts is not illegal, going to the Philippines for said purpose is not illegal (disgusting, but not illegal). Or have they actually had sexual interactions with a child?
I assume what you are talking about is registering paedophiles, something that I have never really liked, not sure why, but I don't.
The idea of branding people based on their crimes just sorta bugs me. I don't think that their records should be locked up, but at the same time I don't think that the govn't has any right to try and spread the word that some one is a paedophile. Or for that matter I don't think a private organisation should either, as that would basically be harassment.
So yah, I believe in protecting people's privacy, and if you kid gets lured away by a paedophile, I feel very sorry for the kid and its parents, yet at the same time I want to smack the parents around for not teaching their kid properly.
/me pokes grendel
what is it you wanted to talk about? Most people I know have a very similar view on paedophiles. The only difference being on the question of registering them.
The first is the 23 year old with the 16 year old girlfriend. Illegal - yes. Wrong - in my mind, yes. Deserving of a permanent record/jail time/etc. - probably not. In this case, the 16 year old will probably go find another 16 year old and do the exact same things - one is legal, one is not.
The second type are the sicko's - people who prey on youth (pre-pubescent). Should they be locked up - yes - for how long? I don't know. Should they be tracked / registered - yes. That is what happens when you are a criminal - you get treated like a criminal. Heck, if I am moving into a new neighborhood, I want to know who the potentially dangerous people are who live around me.
I think they should have some other options - perhaps counseling (many are forced to take some) - or if they are repeat offenders, chemical/physical neutering (assuming they want to end their problem).
For an interesting side note, I think that people should be able to loose their "right" to have sex. If you act irresponsibly with that right, there is no reason why you should be able to keep it. Paedophiles would be on the top of my list to offer such treatment to, rapeists second. Perhaps a tradeoff could be decreased jail time. Unfortunatly, our government has not done extensive testing with such treatments as they are often seen as "cruel and unusual". I see it as offering freedom - not only from jail, but also from some of the chemicals that intensify un-natural thoughts.
In many cultures it was seen as an honor - only the eunics could guard the queen.
Isn't that only because kings tend to be distrustful?
oh, and snidely also has it. The King didn't want his wives boinking other people (he wasn't woried about some one raping his wife, just her cheating on him)
if some one wants to go through neutering, ok, but the govn't can NOT offer commuted sentances infavor of this as that would be coersion.
I am a strong believer in the govn't NOT going beyond simple punishments (jail, comunity service, enforced psychiatric care, and in some cases capital punishment, but that is an iffy and compleatly different subject).
If some one honestly wants to change, then they can take those steps (be in psyciatric help, nutering, willingly signing up for registration, those things). I just don't see it as the govn't's place to do these things, make them avaliable, yes, but not force them.
If there is proof that this person can not be cured, fine toss em in and throw away the key untill circumstances change. However if there isn't proof (aka there is a shadow of a doubt) then we can't do that.
Afterall, there are other percautions that can be taken. Like teaching your kids what to do in these situations (my parents did).
as for the stachetory rape thing....
22 and 16? there might be something wrong there, and there might not.
I know 16 year olds that were mentaly ready for sex and other such matters.
I know 22 year olds that still are not.
I know some 16 year olds who could easily take advantage of a 22 year old.
It all has to do with the persons maturity, some people just grow up fast, some people don't.
If you didn't know, the age of consent over here in the UK is 16, I generally hear it's around 18 in the USA (though looking at a <a href='http://www.avert.org/aofconsent.htm' target='_blank'>random chart</a> I found it appears to differ across states a fair bit).
Do americans consider us a bunch of sickos? Looking at this chart it would appear large chunks of america are too.
In fact, judging from <a href='http://www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm' target='_blank'>this website</a>, the average age for American kids to have consensual sex with someone who is over 18 is 16 years old.
But the question begs to be asked: if an 18 year old is involved with a 15 year old, yes it is probably illegal, but is it wrong? If so, why?
In any case, I think the definition of "pedophile" should be a person with a sexual interest in someone under the age of 13. I think at 13 statutory rape laws can still apply, but I don't believe laws governing pedophiliacs should apply for pubescent (13) youth.
I'm not a big believer in branding someone for life, so I don't think being a registered sex offender is a good idea for a punishment post-prison. After all, a person is more likely to go back to his old ways if there is no forgiveness offered to him. Every person is a criminal. Imagine if we branded everyone based on something that they did.
Imprisoning a pedophile, as well as having him see a psychologist or counselour is a better approach. That way society gets justice, and that man has a chance to live again.
1) How do you define a paedophile?
2) What is an appropriate way to deal with child abusers?
Fire away. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1) Main Entry: pe·do·phile
Pronunciation: 'pE-d&-"fIl
Function: noun
: one affected with <i>pedophilia</i> = sexual perversion in which children are the preferred sexual object
My question is for you is does this fit under your definiton child abuse? I think it does. In which case anyone who knows me well know there are few things that will **** me off instantly and to the point where I am a violent bezerker. Such things are:
*violently abusing a child or other meek lifeform (yes sexual abuse is a violent crime)
*violent abuse of a woman
My reaction is such a contrast to my normal gentle and peacful defensive nature that it is quite shocking if you haven't seen it before. (part of why I think some of my personality is very similar to Inuyasha) Child abuse is hidden well when compared to the other triggers.
2) <span style='color:red'>Kill them.</span> On the spot. An extremely radical and shocking suggestion especially considering it comes form me, until you consider the aforementioned statements.
Now for the other degree of peadophilia, sick freaks forcing children to do what they want for there own personal pleasure. basically non consentual and even if it was most children(im talking 0-12) have absolute no idea whats going on even if they do agree to take off any clothes because a stranger said they'll give em candy or if they were overpowered with force/threats. This imo morally is on the same lvl of rape. anyone involved with this act is a very bad person, i dont think you can give them phycriatic help because there not insane there just sick. I got tons of ideas for punishments for them(a brand/tatoo on forhead with IM A SICKO <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo--> ).
As u can see the main differance between these 2 is that one has no victims and the other one does. The law is to protect people not to retrain them(free weed the other victimless crime >.>')
As for age to be in a porn film i think 18 should stay for that.
As far as punishing child molesters goes, I really don't have an opinion.
1) How do you define a paedophile?
2) What is an appropriate way to deal with child abusers?
Fire away.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b><span style='font-size:13pt;line-height:100%'>Woot!</b></span>
I've been waiting for a topic like this for a while now.
1) Pedophilia is being sexually attracted to younger children, but the thing you have to watch out for is molestation touching/playing/inuendo [needs actuall molestation to occur to become a crime but it's still scumbag status]/or anything sexual that is brought on by an older person to an underage minor. Even if the abuser is the same relative age it still has a lasting effect. Any abuse during childhood is bad times, even being hit just once can alter the way the brain is wired. Any sort of abuse when young actually makes the victim go and put themselves in re tramautizing situations, thats why chicks who had abusive ahole fathers who were never there hook up with abusive ahole boyfriends who are never there.
2) Personally I would say shoot them but that is giving them the easy way out. People don't realize that they eff there kids up horrible when they abuse them. Any tramau growing up has a significant effect on them later in life. Instead of shooting them I'm for surgically implanting the bullet in the head so it gets to ride around for a while and then kill them.
all humour aside the correct way to go about it is to get the authorities involved [presuming statuet of limitations is not up] get the ahole's into prison for a long time and go straight to therapy and do not pass go until you've had double digits of years in therapy [at the minimum] If your in college then usually student health services can hook you up with a psychotherapist, if your in highschool one of the school councelors can get you a referal, if your past that stage in life I hope it would be covered under insurance, you can try calling loveline [1-800-love-191] Sunday thru Thursday 10-12 pacific time and Dr. Drew should be able to explain a whole bunch of things.
x5, of course this is child abuse.
Grendel, I recall hearing you had a rather distressing childhood, if your not comfortable discussing certain aspects related to this conversation in public feel more than free to drop me a PM, but any more details and specifics would help out greatly as I'm grasping at straws due to vaugety.
((your age) / 2) + 7 = youngest person you should ever do
Not true.
In the U.S., if a person 18 or older has sex with someone under 18, regardless of the state's age of consent, that is statutory rape.
and forlorn, that forumla of yours is interesting
Anyway, I say any man (or woman, though not nearly so often) who molests a pre-pubescent child in ANY way should lose their right to breathe the very same oxygen the normal people of the world do. They aren't good enough for it, and the one to pull the switch at their execution should be the very same child they molested.
*edit* Either that or the one who molested the child should have the option to have his genitals removed, by grinding his entire package between two rocks until there is nothing left.
Although, I really don't know about publicizing names. On the one hand, say a sex offender is "cured" and released, then stops taking his pills. The public deserves the ability to defend against that, right? On the other hand, say a sex offender is really cured. They don't deserve a red-letter their entire life.
Keep it coming.
umm, I've pretty much covered all the bases and I can tell everyone first hand that therapy for any abuse whatsoever in childhood is a surefire way to go. Whilst I never victimized sexually by an adult I still had to go thru some bad times.
I'm going to be very candid here, to the point were some might find it uncomfortable. <span style='color:white'> Consider yourself warned </span>
<!--QuoteBegin-You were already warned and you know th+ it's your choice to highlight this--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (You were already warned and you know th @ it's your choice to highlight this)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
<span style='color:#031D1F'>Well I have no direct evidence or memories of any abuse/tramau at a young age but I'm more than certain something happened due to the fact that I can remember masturbating as early as pre-school [I can remember one of my fantasies, it involved disecting other kids to learn out how they worked in an imaginary secret liar that was the health club across the street] Right there that sets of warning flags becuase children aren't introduced to things of a sexual nature until a little later, unless something happened. For more background I was diagnosed with ADHD at the ripe age of 3 1/2 [my mom is a school psychologist who works with preschool children with handicaps so she has a knack for spotting stuff like this I guess] consequentally I was taking 10mg of ritalin since 4, which was upped to 30 around age 6 and the dosage stayed the same until around 13-14 when I switched to adderal and fast acting dexadrin [these drugs are all amphetamine based] around 3rd grade my dad had a couch cushion drying outside and I went and sat on it, getting it dirty and angering him to the point where he hit me with a shoe. I latere told someone at school and they promptly filed a police report and got his teaching credential revoked, I felt horrible about that at the time but in retrospect the old bastage reaped what he sowed. There was also other instances where he hit me a couple other times for other assorted random eff ups around the house. however it's totally unnaceptable. Also in my young age me and my brother [roughly 4 years older than me] would had several instances of sexual "exploration", [at the time I didn't figure anything was wrong, the "game" was called "joystick" and we would switch off] and a couple instances him attempting anal penetration upon me. Another thing that also happened was when I was spending the night at a friends house and I woke up to him touching me. During my Jr Highschool in my 9th grade year my dad told me that [this is a direct quote] "I don't expect you to live thru highschool, and I'm prepared for that to happen" starting around that time and continuing to this day he is emotionaly abusive which is just as bad as any physicall abuse. We will be in the same room, and I will ask him something such as "hey dad, how did the kings do when they played Minnesota" or "what did you think of the presidential debate" or "What did you do at work today" etc and <b>if</b> if he responds at all it will be after a long pause [5 seconds minimum] I got into therapy at a young age due to some social shortcomings which were bolstered by the ADHD and my penance for not thinking before acting, and I stayed with the same guy who could legal put 36 letters after his name [MD were two of them] for at least 7 years. The main things that I learned from him was 1) Situational Ethics are bad [I was quite the skilled shoplifer] 2) To talk slowly and enunciate my words a[that didn't stick as much as I would like >_<] and 3) <i>The only person you have absolute control over is yourself</i> My dad shortchanges everyone in life with his social interactions, even my mom and if he wants to be closed and bitter to everyone so be it. I have a weird emotional mindset, somethings happen and I don't even bat an eyelid [girlfriend breaks up with me, etc] and somethings make me cry instantly [thinking of my late grandmother on my mother side, getting hung up on by one of the loveline phone screeners, etc] If I didn't have that tramau in mein childhood I would probably have a better graps on things but it's not how things turned out and you shouldn't dwell on the past, but learn from it. I'm comfortable sharing what happened becuase I have obtained a clear understanding of it and I how it will affect me later in life</span> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
oh, <a href='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=79162' target='_blank'>here</a> is an explanation on the blank quote table, please use it if your going to discuss things like the above.
In my senior year of highschool I was the vice president of the random acts of kindness club and in the spring we had an officers retreat to beautifull lake tahoe [ I did a backflip off the pear and into the pure snowmelt lake] and late night the whole group was awake minus the chaperones and we took turns telling the story of our whole lifes leaving no details, and more than 90% of the people there had horrible things happen to them earlier in life, I think that suprised most of the people there, but many many people don't know that if they had any tramau as a child that they should get some therapy.
Any:
Hitting, beating, spanking, emotional or physicall abuse, sexual exploration, or sexual molestation. Having a father or a mother figure that is absent or neglectfull [alcoholic, fights infront of children] espicially under the age of 6 [It wreaks havoc on the brains wiring] means that some therapy would probably be in your best interest.
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I remembered another thing that I forgot so I added it
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<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Anyone over the age of 35 who plays CS on public servers.
Anyone who ever uses a voice changer ....to sound younger
Anyone on Chat Lobbys who uses the words "age, sex, location.." abbreviations
(do chat lobbys still exist?)
Anyone with a deep voice who works in primary school (lowerschool?) education.
Anyone who Leaves devient messages in childrens books - i.e. the guy who wrote Captain Pugwash (oh - my favourite character was Seaman Stanes)
Anyone over the age of 35 who plays CS on public servers.
Anyone on Chat Lobbys who uses the words "age, sex, location.." abbreviations
(do chat lobbys still exist?)
Anyone with a deep voice who works in primary school (lowerschool?) education.
Anyone who Leaves devient messages in childrens books - i.e. the guy who wrote Captain Pugwash (oh - my favourite character was Seaman Stanes) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Um... no. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Do you think what they're doing is right?
Discuss. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
In my view though a 60% success rate on paedophile identification and harrassment is good enough - there are always people who will get caught in the crossfire - thats life....
In my view though a 60% success rate on paedophile identification and harrassment is good enough - there are always people who will get caught in the crossfire - thats life.... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, it was the Daily Mail's "name and shame" campaign, if I remember correctly. It was completely counter productive, since it only serves to drive these people to more secrecy instead of stopping them. Like you say, innocents get caught up as well; I remember reading about a paediatrician being attacked because of all this.
No, I don't think it's the right approach.
Alast it's true <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I think that exposing peod's publicly is only asking for tourble, same with airing steamid's of llamas and the like, take it up with the server [err city] admins, as it is there job to deal with it.
Grendel has this thread answered your questions?
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uncapsed because the NSF isn't feeling caps lock day
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