Astral Projection
<div class="IPBDescription">Anybody know anything about it?</div> So, i've been researching things on sleep paralysis. It's where your just about to fall asleep, but suddenly wake up, and realize you can't move. It is usually involves some sort of presence near you and shouting things at you. The voices, however, are not "inside head voices" they sound like some one next to you.
I have sleep paralysis ALOT, once every month. The research on this guy's website seems to coincide with my problems, down to the position of sleep and the kinds of sounds in the head. Apparently, sleep paralysis has something to do with your body releasing a paralysis hormone to keep you from sleep walking. "ceratonine" I think it was called.
Well, he goes on to say how he tries to provoke an "out of body experince" while in sleep paralysis. If you go to some Astral Projection websites, some say Sleep Paralysis helps. He succeeded in doing this! He recalls walking back to his childhood house and travelling through different areas. He describes the "out of body Experience" as a very surreal experience, it is DEFINETLY not like a dream.
So, my question is, has anyone here ever had such experiences?
EDIT:
Gah! I've been reading some posts, stop bashing the "Astral Projection" thingy, but most of the people who experience it don't take drugs for it.
Now, I feel it could just be brain hallucinations that is what these "projectors" are feeling.
But stop talking about **** you know nothing about, research it before you come on to bash it...
I have sleep paralysis ALOT, once every month. The research on this guy's website seems to coincide with my problems, down to the position of sleep and the kinds of sounds in the head. Apparently, sleep paralysis has something to do with your body releasing a paralysis hormone to keep you from sleep walking. "ceratonine" I think it was called.
Well, he goes on to say how he tries to provoke an "out of body experince" while in sleep paralysis. If you go to some Astral Projection websites, some say Sleep Paralysis helps. He succeeded in doing this! He recalls walking back to his childhood house and travelling through different areas. He describes the "out of body Experience" as a very surreal experience, it is DEFINETLY not like a dream.
So, my question is, has anyone here ever had such experiences?
EDIT:
Gah! I've been reading some posts, stop bashing the "Astral Projection" thingy, but most of the people who experience it don't take drugs for it.
Now, I feel it could just be brain hallucinations that is what these "projectors" are feeling.
But stop talking about **** you know nothing about, research it before you come on to bash it...
Comments
Sleep Paralysis = very real and, for those involved, very scary. I suggest you stick to psychological & medical sources when researching this.
Its actually a lot more common than you may think. Its more common in women than men. Usually it involves a feeling of not being able to move, perhaps even feeling like someone is on top of you forcing you down (this case is most common with women).
Its the sort of problem that psychologists still don't know a whole lot about. Most people don't want to talk about it, and they feel that they're alone in having this feeling, although it is in reality fairly 'common'.
If I remember my pscyhology class from my freshman year of college correctly, ceratonin is what the brain makes to make you feel happy. Its also the stuff in anti-depressants (or they cause the brain to make more, something like that). AFAIK has nothing to do w/ physical movement, that's probably a different hormone. Again this is just a guess though.
But stay away from the supernatural stuff, as this has nothing to do with that...
And its Seratonin; a Neurotransmitter - an enzyme used to communicate Neural acitivity across a synapse.
<a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis' target='_blank'>Oh Wikipedia, how I love you.</a>
Sounds like you have a pretty textbook case.
It mentions some things that do increase the chance of having an episode. These include : Sleeping in a supine [on your back] position, Irregular sleeping schedules; naps, sleeping in, Increased stress, Sudden environmental/lifestyle changes.
<a href='http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Lucid_Dreaming' target='_blank'>The lucid dreaming book incase anybody was curious.</a>
[oh, I forgot to mention. Astralprojection is a bunch of hooie.]
Serotonin is, as Cold-Nite said, a neurotransmitter, not a hormone or enzyme. When in the synaptic cleft, it causes feelings of well-being, while if it is re-absorbed into the neurons too quickly, it causes depression. Interesting note: Lysergic Acid Diethylamide (LSD) mimics serotonin. It binds to the receptors in the synapse and prevents serotonin from binding, which leaves it in the synapse, which causes the effects associated with LSD (such as the "voyage to trip-out city").
As for the astral projection stuff, its infinitely more likely that you're just either a) hallucinating or b) dreaming, considering that the last two have the slight advantage of being physically possible.
Some of the theories for "Astral Projection" have a basis in science however. The most widely-accepted theory is that the RAS (part of brain responsible for ceasing all voluntary muscle movements while you sleep, prevents sleepwalking) is activated while awake by abnormal levels of serotonin. This causes sleep paralysis. Next, I believe the technical term is "hypnagogic hallucinations". Also, your brain tries to control your paralyzed body, and fakes feedback in much the same way that an amputee can still feel their missing limb. Thus you feel like you're moving, while in reality you aren't. Your brain makes up images (the hallucinations) for what it believes you should see, and failing that, just plain makes stuff up. So basically, as far as people can tell, "astral projection" is basically just hallucinations similar to those caused by LSD, combined with paralyzation.
Now, it could be all crap. Or it could be real. A good portion of whether or not Astral Projection could be possible depends on your feelings on a spirit, soul, or whatever. If you do not believe that there is such thing as a soul, then Astral Projection is simply Hippie BS. If you do believe in a soul or spirit, then it's possible Astral Projection can happen. I know people who've supposedly acheived it.
If you are honestly interested in it, I wouldn't listen to the science boys. Try it out for yourself, and if you can do it, that's awesome.
If you're interested, check out www.astralpulse.com.
I've never heard of someone hallucinating while not on any type of drug or not in any super stressful situation.
If you guys are going to make fun of something, get your facts straight and disprove it properly, okay?
The emporer is wearing his new psi balls, can't you see them?
Theres that troublesome word again, that people throw out whenever you try to explain things in a rational way with science. Here let's try that again shall we;
<!--QuoteBegin-illuminex+Oct 19 2004, 12:02 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (illuminex @ Oct 19 2004, 12:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->...since OBE means that your <s><i>spirit</i></s> <b>hocus pocus</b> is moving around....<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm sorry, but countering Science with religion and/or spirituality is just plain wrong. I'm a religious person myself, so I'm not saying I have no faith in anything, but I hate to see a non-secular approach used to explain a secular event. We've been through those days already people, they were called the dark ages. Let's follow PBS's advice and try to be more enlightened eh?
Theres that troublesome word again, that people throw out whenever you try to explain things in a rational way with science. Here let's try that again shall we;
<!--QuoteBegin-illuminex+Oct 19 2004, 12:02 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (illuminex @ Oct 19 2004, 12:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->...since OBE means that your <s><i>spirit</i></s> <b>hocus pocus</b> is moving around....<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm sorry, but countering Science with religion and/or spirituality is just plain wrong. I'm a religious person myself, so I'm not saying I have no faith in anything, but I hate to see a non-secular approach used to explain a secular event. We've been through those days already people, they were called the dark ages. Let's follow PBS's advice and try to be more enlightened eh? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd argue that there is a non secular explination to every 'secular' (by which you mean scientifically explainable) event. But they must be, in thier nature, mutually inclusive. For instance, take a page of paper with some words on it, you can scientifically analize the molecular makeup of the paper and the ink all you want, but you are not going to be able to understand any of the message the words are saying. And even after that point, you can simply read the words in a matter of fact, literal, scientific way, but then you won't get all the nuances and symbolism of say, a good poem.
Things mean more than the sum of thier parts, but if we somehow explain the meaning of the things in a way that requires us to dismiss the parts we know that we aren't reading the right meanings. A paper can say anthing it wants, but it can't, in its essance, exist without the fact that somewhere, farther back into the scientific scale, it IS made up of molecules of paper and ink.
[edit] sorry for the double post
I have sleep paralysis ALOT, once every month. The research on this guy's website seems to coincide with my problems, down to the position of sleep and the kinds of sounds in the head. Apparently, sleep paralysis has something to do with your body releasing a paralysis hormone to keep you from sleep walking. "ceratonine" I think it was called. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Whoa! This happens to other people? I get it from time to time, and wasn't sure if it was really real or not. Almost feels like you're awake and dreaming at the same time. You know how when you're dreaming, and know you're dreaming, and try to wake up, but can't? It's a bit like that, except that I'm actually awake at the time. And there are no "voices" or "presence", but always a sudden, oppressive, irrational feeling of panic.
I don't believe in such things as out of body experiences, but I'm very interested to hear what you dig up on the paralysis. For me, it's never a pleasant experience.
You can pick any topic and find someone who is just spurting out junk that makes no sense when considered critically. When the topic is projection and OOBEs, there just isn't enough solid research and intelligent discussion to outweigh most of the flotsam. It doesn't help that most of the research on the topic is much older than the internet.
Sleep paralysis is not only common, it happens every time you go into a deep sleep. But most of the time you don't notice, because you're unconscious. If you wake up, and your body hasn't caught up with you yet, there's no need to panic. Relax for a few minutes and it'll go away (or you'll fall back asleep).
Experiance has shown that you can also induce sleep paralysis and enter a trance via meditation. Beyond that, I couldn't tell you.
There is the distinct possibility that all the stuff about astral travel, etc. is just a byproduct of a dream state. Some of what people say is possibly true, but not all of it. Again, research on the topic is slim. Observations on the physical changes one goes through in the process of becoming "astral" are more useful than most of it.
It certainly doesn't help that many people speak as if hard drugs were involved in their experiances, but some helpful application of Occam's Razor thins that bunch out pretty quickly.
So, what you're left with is a lot of "dunno." I think the topic is worth some exploration, but only a personal endeavor is going to get you anywhere. Other people just aren't much use in this case. Although, I hear you can do it accidentally.
I have it lined up in the things I want to take a look at when I take my eventual, proverbial trip into the desert.
That's not sleep paralysis. ;D
Seriously though, take care. Be very, VERY careful with astral projection or similar, spiritual stuff. Between self-fulfilling prophecies (take the guy who committed suicide because he was completely convinced that he'd soon die and couldn't live with the fear) and scam artists, very bad things can happen to you. If you're hell-bent on trying things like these, experience tells me that there's nothing I can do to convince you otherwise, so please do yourself a favour and at least LISTEN to the other side. Visit the websites of skeptics and listen to what they have to say. Nobody is more easy to manipulate than the one who blindly follows their "spiritual leader". And as long as their theories and explanations are all you listen to, they'll never let you go. This stuff is dangerous because you're promised knowledge of a fantastic and wonderful world, far beyong what you've ever experienced. It's a powerful lure because you WANT to believe in it. Because it'd COMPLETELY RULE if it were true. But that's what makes you easy to fool. So stay sharp, ok?
Interesting stuff really. I thought it was rubbish too, until someone from the west coast of the USA manged to tell me:
a) I lived near a motorway (as in, RIGHT NEAR)
b) I was holding up 3 fingers on my left hand
c) Had a cookie on a plate on my table
d) Was wearing sony neckband headphones.
All at the same time. All of these were true. I do not have any webcam connected to my computer, nor did I tell said person these things.
I'm not kidding you btw <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
I would like to say however, there are a lot of idiots out tehre giving the -real- practices behind Astral projection and such a bad name. In reality it doesn't really break any laws of physics so to say, as there are no laws written that concern the spirit - of which, there is enough written references to in an enormous amount of ancient->present texts to support it existing, IMO.
So.. yeah <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
[edit: ps: lolfigther has a point. And not all things in astral projection are friendly - and there are those that abuse it as well as those that try to trick people about it]
Only twice. But really freaking weird when it happened.
...since OBE means that your spirit is moving around....
Theres that troublesome word again, that people throw out whenever you try to explain things in a rational way with science. Here let's try that again shall we;
QUOTE (illuminex @ Oct 19 2004, 12:02 AM)
...since OBE means that your spirit hocus pocus is moving around....
I'm sorry, but countering Science with religion and/or spirituality is just plain wrong. I'm a religious person myself, so I'm not saying I have no faith in anything, but I hate to see a non-secular approach used to explain a secular event. We've been through those days already people, they were called the dark ages. Let's follow PBS's advice and try to be more enlightened eh<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Read my post again. I gave a pretty neutral stance on the whole issue, and really gave science a break. I attacked no one, just gave two possible choices. You're the one making a big deal out of my opinion, which was purposefully made to be laid back with an either/or attitude.
So, what evidence do you have to disprove that there is a soul or spirit? Ohh yeah, I think we all know the answer to that is 0. I happen to believe there is one inside everyone, due to many personal life experiences I have had. Disprove that. Science that for a bit. It'll get you nowhere. Science is great for explaining things, but has no way of proving the existence or inexistence of other planes of existence, which doesn't mean that they aren't there, but simply that science is incapable of finding them.
I certainly won't be limited by Science's limitations.
This might be strong enough to fool some people in to thinking that they've actually shifted their conciousness or their spirit there. And people who are in the area can detect your "presence" because of the energy that you use in that area.
Of course, I could be completely wrong. That is, however, what I think may be the most likely thing.
<b>[EDIT:]</b> *prepares for jokes about the Force*
(i only read this thread because i thought you were talking about the trance group astral projection - they are the ownage!)
As for actual astral projection it frigging hurts ><
Whether imaginary or not the 'drop' I got from losing my concentration and ending back in my lil body felt real enough =s
From my lil experiments though it was like being a spectator in HL or something but you have to focus lots to keep it up and everything was violet ^^;
I dunno if I really believe I succeeded or not (not like it lasted long or I got far anyways) but it was definitely interesting <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<b>edit:</b> guess I should point out the paralysis wasn't voluntary nor involved with my projection attempts which were self induced. Only managed the once, got to my light fixture in the room before realising it was 'working' and snapped back into my body with a geniune physical jerk that almost convinced me I'd been actually fallen the distance or something lol XD
...since OBE means that your spirit is moving around....
Theres that troublesome word again, that people throw out whenever you try to explain things in a rational way with science. Here let's try that again shall we;
QUOTE (illuminex @ Oct 19 2004, 12:02 AM)
...since OBE means that your spirit hocus pocus is moving around....
I'm sorry, but countering Science with religion and/or spirituality is just plain wrong. I'm a religious person myself, so I'm not saying I have no faith in anything, but I hate to see a non-secular approach used to explain a secular event. We've been through those days already people, they were called the dark ages. Let's follow PBS's advice and try to be more enlightened eh<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Read my post again. I gave a pretty neutral stance on the whole issue, and really gave science a break. I attacked no one, just gave two possible choices. You're the one making a big deal out of my opinion, which was purposefully made to be laid back with an either/or attitude.
So, what evidence do you have to disprove that there is a soul or spirit? Ohh yeah, I think we all know the answer to that is 0. I happen to believe there is one inside everyone, due to many personal life experiences I have had. Disprove that. Science that for a bit. It'll get you nowhere. Science is great for explaining things, but has no way of proving the existence or inexistence of other planes of existence, which doesn't mean that they aren't there, but simply that science is incapable of finding them.
I certainly won't be limited by Science's limitations. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm sorry for coming off as seeming like a giant arse. I am religious too, so yeah I believe in a spirit. It's just that you are encouraging him in something that is fruitless. And the kinds of people he will interact with there may take advantage of him, as that is the business that many of those people run. You were somewhat neutral, but you were the first person to go out and suggest he meet other "cases" of said projection. That, in my opinion is dangerous.
------------------------------------
As for whoever was arguing about the paper and the poem written on it; you are arguing about interpretation done by people. You say that the spirit is involved in this, and that a good poem will affect your soul. I am of the belief that emotion is the interpretation of a state of greater arousal or awareness achieved by the brain through higher output of Neurotransmitters such as Dopamine (- responsible for pleasure) and others. You read the words, your brain goes into a higher state of activity chemically, and you interpret that as either you liking or disliking the poem due to past experiences of things you like and dislike including other poems. As far as reading the words, your eyes pick up the reflection of light from the paper reverse it twice and then send the image as electrical information to your brain.
in my case it happens when i nap away for a half second.
it just happend yesterday to me. i was going ia bit earlier to bed to watch some tv.i wasnt tired or something. i can remember every second every time it happens. i can remember the comercials starting..the first spot ended, and the second folowed.. i napped away for a second, and felt this alarming easyheaded- dizzy feeling.. like im without wheigt everytime it happens, when im not able to snap out of this situation within a second it starts... im losing all feeling for my body.. its like someone puts your body into cotton batting first, and even that feeling fades away after a second..and then it happens ..
it starts with relative light uniform pressure on my whole body. about 50 or 60 kilos ... im at totally aware at this point im full aware what happens around me...my eyes are not fully opend,(to open them more it takes very much strain) , just enough to see everything..it must look like my eyes are closed.. im still able to move my eyes ... ive seen that the same tv spot was still running (that spot lasts for at least 25 seconds, so i must get into this situation in less than 10 seconds)
its horrible..
i dont even feel myself breathing, and when i force a breath, or try to move my body, or a limb, the pressure on my body increases...
can you imagin how it feels to get squeezed by a huge mass on your back against your bed? you dont feel the cause of the pressure, but you feel the wheight, a wheigt that is so heavy, you cant breath anymore even if you want to, and you feel you going to chocke? and everytime you attempt to get out of this situation the wheight gets heavier and heavier.. i dont think there is any chance not to start panicing. my luck was ,that mana was comming into my room to turn off my tv, because she thaught i was asleep, because i have not answered her when she asked if im still awake.
ive heared her, ive seen her, but i wasnt able to do a single noise ...she was walking to my tv, switched it off...and i tried desperate to get her attention... she told me later i really scared her..when the room got silent she heared me, she turned around , and seen me staring at her with wide opend eyes, making silent whimpering noises.
at this point i already thought i have to die so heavy was the pressure on me. ive used all my power to get my eyes opend..and used the last breath i got to try to scream.. she grabbed me , and shaked me , and just her touch was enough to get me out of this. the strange thing is , i was able to feel that.
i got used to it over the years, and it doesnt happend the last few months..there are very long phases were it wont happen. but this time was horrible.
i have almost 10 hours sleep, not a really stressfull job , and my therapists were saying they cant find a source for it.. i was several times in the sleep lab , and there it happend 3 times, they told me they have seen similar e.e.g. outputs like mine. but my output was for longer periods off the regular scale. must be my will to escape those situations.
it really scares the hell out of me, and after such events i cant really get sleep.
i think i know now how to describe the feeling...its like getting cast in instant harden concrete, with just your eyes are looking out.. , and that block is put into a press..
its really hard to describe..
but one thing is a fact.. there was never a out of body experience.
just panic
ive seen several artworks of different artists interpretating this situation...
<img src='http://www.paranormal.de/para/ballabene/obe/theorien/theoriegif/pesadilla.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
if someone could please translate that...
Im Volksglauben herrschte die Vorstellung, dass auf der Brust der schlafenden Person eine Drud (oder Alb) sitzt und die/den Schläfer/in durch sein Gewicht drückt ("bedrückt") und das Atmen beschwert. Dies ist die exakte, mythologisch verbrämte Beschreibung einer bewußten bzw. unbewußten Wahrnehmung der Schlafparalyse. Was die Schlafparalyse genau ist, findet sich in einem eigens dafür erstellten Kapitel und ich brauche hier nicht genauer darauf eingehen.
OBE-Brief 58: "Er lag bei sich zu haus in seinem Bett, und "erwachte" plötzlich, merkte aber, dass er sich nicht bewegen konnte. Als er seine Augen aufschlug, sah er, dass ein teufelähnliches Wesen (oder gar der Teufel selbst?? das ist ja das Angsteinflößende!) auf seiner Brust saß
Druckgefühl:
In diesem Zustand der Schlafparalyse spürt man bisweilen auch einen Druck, der auf den Körper lastet. Dieser Druck ist offenbar die Folge eines besonders stark empfundenen Schweregefühls, wie es für das Eingleiten in die Tiefentspannung typisch ist und anscheinend auch im Zustand der Schlafparalyse empfunden werden kann und dann als bedrohlich empfunden wird und Panick auslösen kann.
OBE-Brief 71: "Eines Nachts, es war mir als ob ich aufwachte, spürte ich wie ich mit einer unglaublichen Kraft ins Bett gedrückt wurde. Es war mir unmöglich mich zu bewegen, ich wollte schreien, aber es gelang mir nicht. Der Druck auf mich schien immer stärker zu werden, mich überkam panische Angst.
Interesting stuff really. I thought it was rubbish too, until someone from the west coast of the USA manged to tell me:
a) I lived near a motorway (as in, RIGHT NEAR)
b) I was holding up 3 fingers on my left hand
c) Had a cookie on a plate on my table
d) Was wearing sony neckband headphones.
All at the same time. All of these were true. I do not have any webcam connected to my computer, nor did I tell said person these things.
I'm not kidding you btw <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
I would like to say however, there are a lot of idiots out tehre giving the -real- practices behind Astral projection and such a bad name. In reality it doesn't really break any laws of physics so to say, as there are no laws written that concern the spirit - of which, there is enough written references to in an enormous amount of ancient->present texts to support it existing, IMO.
So.. yeah <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
[edit: ps: lolfigther has a point. And not all things in astral projection are friendly - and there are those that abuse it as well as those that try to trick people about it] <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Stalker...
I don't know, but that would freek me out for sure <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->