Well on a note with the Science Channel again. When human's die they also predicted a new species would be born, oddly on a white dwarf star. Sounds kind of weird and totally out of the ordinary.
If there is live out there and we are extinct its going to be pretty amazing how they will start digging us up to learn about our past. Im sure they'll think right away "What a bunch of scary savages" or something along the line. Probably the only reason ET hasnt phoned us is if we feel threatened they know we have many nukes and can turn this planet into, well nothing. Although if there is an ET and hes friendly it would be awsome to meet and talk with him. Considering he would most likely be highly intelligent and able to learn many languages quickly.
Even though it is weird how there is no life out there yet except for bacteria they found on Mars. Just us in this gigantic universe.
<!--QuoteBegin-Z.X. Bogglesteinsky+Oct 27 2004, 08:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Z.X. Bogglesteinsky @ Oct 27 2004, 08:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-CMaster+Oct 26 2004, 11:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CMaster @ Oct 26 2004, 11:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Nuketheplace+Oct 26 2004, 04:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nuketheplace @ Oct 26 2004, 04:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> We exist as part of a computer program to find the ultimate answer to life the universe and everything. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Wrong. The answer is 42. We are here to find out what the question is. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The question is "What is six times nine?"
There we go. purpose served, we can all go home.
[serious:]
If all we are here to do is to reproduce, then all hte nuns, preists, homosexuals, celibates and old people are just a waste of space. They aren't going to reproduce, so get rid of them to make way for the people who will. Also, lets get rid of people who use contraceptives. They are, after all, interfering with our purpose. BABIES!!111!1
For those of you who think there is no purpose at all, what are you still doing alive? You are not going to accomplish anything that matters in the rest of your life, so you might as well just pop your clogs now.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Firstly I haven't read the book so I might be missing something, but last time I check "six times nine" doesnt = 42, it = 54; six times seven = 42.
I find your last comment slightly disturbing, as I believe there is no real purpose (other than to reproduce, which I believe was the original purpose of any living thing, but no longer really as the only purpose, or even a purpose of life at all anymore). But I would like to enjoy my life, for all i know it the only one i'm gonna get, I might aswell have some fun and enjoy myself.
On the reason of why do we exist is like many other people have said, mutation of DNA, its simple as. We weren't placed here for a reason, but more by accident. Do you know how many varibles making a planet hospitable has? There is so many different things that happened to the earth, before any life started, that made earth hospitable, without just one of those things happening we wouldn't be here.
DuoGodOfDeath, the Science Channel is a very interesting channel (well the stuff about space is) and about your comment<!--QuoteBegin-DuoGodOfDeath+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DuoGodOfDeath)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Even though it is weird how there is no life out there yet except for bacteria they found on Mars. Just us in this gigantic universe.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Its a bit of a weird statement, "no life out there yet" inparticular, does this mean someone is going to create life? I think what you ment is no life <i>found</i> yet. I'm a firm believer that life exist outside our planetary system, I find it to hard to believe that it couldn't. Although I fully understand how rare and hard it it to have a planet capable of supporting life, there is so many billions of billions of galaxies out there, each with billions of billions of stars. In all that you can't possibly say that the same freak factors that contributed to life haven't happened again.
The existence of the Universe itself can't be explained, and doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
Think about it- it doesn't make sense that the Universe couldv'e just existed forever, neither does it make sense that it couldv'e just "appeared".
So I don't think there's any reason for the existence of anything, including humans. There was just alot of coincidences, and somewhere a bunch of "stuff" was in the exact right positions for the "stuff" to replicate itself. Then, from that, we evolved. No reason for it, as in no "higher purpose".
Even if you think we're an accident, surely you're not going to sit here and make me believe that you're implying that the universe has existed forever and nothing made it. The universe can't just create itself.
There's the watchmaker's scenario where you're walking down the beach and you spot a watch in the sand. You pick up the watch, and you see that it is completely intact; the watch works fine. Now there are two conclusions you can reach. A) That the winds and the tossing and turning of the ocean managed to assemble the watch with all its pieces exactly the way it is, or B) something else created the watch. Seeing how hard it is to believe "A," through process of elimination, "B" must be true.
The universe is like the watch, ladies and gentlemen. Too complicated and too perfect for it to have formed like it is by chance. You can't say the universe has always been without admitting the possibility that a higher life form created it. Note that I am not saying God, because it could be anything. My point being that something created us. So why?
<!--QuoteBegin-Kester+Oct 28 2004, 05:58 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kester @ Oct 28 2004, 05:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Z.X. Bogglesteinsky+Oct 27 2004, 08:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Z.X. Bogglesteinsky @ Oct 27 2004, 08:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-CMaster+Oct 26 2004, 11:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CMaster @ Oct 26 2004, 11:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Nuketheplace+Oct 26 2004, 04:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nuketheplace @ Oct 26 2004, 04:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> We exist as part of a computer program to find the ultimate answer to life the universe and everything. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Wrong. The answer is 42. We are here to find out what the question is. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The question is "What is six times nine?"
There we go. purpose served, we can all go home. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Firstly I haven't read the book so I might be missing something, but last time I check "six times nine" doesnt = 42, it = 54; six times seven = 42. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Its supposed to be wrong, I think.
btw, in base 13, 6 multiplied by 9 does equal 42, but this was not done on purpose.
I believe that we are not the first civilization on Earth. There is a theory that before us, there were 5 different civilizations. Starting from superdeveloped bag-like creatures to human. People from Tibet believe that there has been 8 epohs. One epoh means one civilizations life time. After that, the catastrophy or something took place, and all those citys dissaperaed, only smaller groups of human survived and they had to start all over. That would explain those mysteris how the human footprint is in the same stone where dinosaur footprint is. And that would explain how the bullets got in the dinosaur sceleton and that would explain that 65 million years old human skull found inside a rock (very badly survived inside a rock). Most of these things are forgotten, mostly bechause nobody can explain these things, it would turn over entire history. Most of such things are once found and then re-found from a storage or something..
Lately, the scientists discovered a circular formation from under the ice in Antarktis. They don't know what it is, but it is thought to be an old volcanoue. But if you look at the old maps and if you read R. Bauvals theory that Atlantis on Antarktis continent (It is said that there was a huge continent between the Old "British" isles and America, Island was a bit lower. It was same big as America and there was that survivor city from 7-th epoh called Atlantis. And there are even Pyramids believed to be under the ice (No, it is not from the crappy AvP movie). Actually there are Pyramids all over the world, from Britain to China. There are buildings that make up a huge map to something. Like the so called "golden carve" (I don't know how to spell it right in english..). And ancient citys and main centers of India and Tibet like Tiahuanaco and Cuzco are believed to be created by an old man with white beard and white hair who came from the east. Before him, people were living in caves, they had no clothes and nothing, like the indianas. The man teached them how to raise crops and build cottages and how to make clothes and stuff. He also had two golden balls or something with him, he claimed that those things led him the way and then those two golden things fell into the deep ground and to those places, Cuzco and Tiahuanaco were created. There are many stories from different cultures that tell us something about the ancient people who came from the north. There are many great buildings what hold mystery - how those were built? Bechause those things are enonormous. Lets leave out the Egyptian Pyramids. But the greatest stone block used in Egypt (On some kind of a temple) weight about 200 tons, biggest stone blocks of Baalbeck (The Creecks named it Heliopolis) weight about 400 tons, it is the same as to put 400 small cars on top of each other. And in Northen-Syberia, there are those two (or even more) enonormous stone menhirs what are 30 meters above ground and probably 10 - 20 meters under the surface.. And there are millions of balls all over the world. Made from stone, iron, wood etc, in different sizes, from small golfball to huge 20 meters.. Nobody knows where these things came from and what was their purpose. There was one ball what seemed to be very old. It was discovered from the beach and it was covered with stone formations. It was cut half, hardly, very hardly. Then the different layers of stone, woof, iron, and other metals showed up - Mystery.
I don't know whether those were aliens or people from ancient Civilization or both (I believe the last one) but we are not the first ones on this planet. Mars or Phaeton (The lost planet what makes the Asteroid Belt nowadays). The evolution history of this planet is older and more mysterious than we can imagine. I believe that we are actually from another planet and somebody planted us here and ancient civilizations got connections and somehow those marks survived. There are tons of marks of aliens, from Christianity to old cave-people. Drawings, writings, monuments, etc.. The very interesting dogons knowledge etc..
Why do we exist? Well, it depends how to ask. If you ask Why do WE exist, then I can answer. Maybe we are the aliens, maybe we are planted here on this planet throush some lifeform by the master race who rules a galaxy? Interesting. There are pyramids and interesting formations on Mars, in Cydonia area. Lately, there is water found on Mars and stuff. And actually an Earth-like planet was discovered lately. Its position is pretty much the same as earths and maybe there is life there? But if we are searching the VERY higly developed civilization, then we should look into the centre of galaxy...
I believe that there are other dimentions where are no physical world, it is like single thought in pure emptyness. I believe that everything is formed by an energy. Energy what makes things moveing. There are lifeforms who come to visit us from other dimensions and they have no physical body, so they create a cristallic object, so we could understand them.
I believe that this life here is not the only one. Before we were born, our soul, our energy still existed, and when we die, we just travel to another dimention. How this world happened, is just that somehow, a new dimention developed and it had new features, like physical body. So, some energy slipped here and formed material with a big bang. Then, it begun to spread. How life got here? I don't know. Maybe it was just that two substances got together and woila, there was a thinking lifeform from just a material... Actually I think that those substances or call them whatever, formed a body what could hold an energy properly, so this chance was just used. Fill the empty slots. Energy in energy.
And black hole is just a hole in dimention what leads to antoher dimention where is only energy or whatever...
But what is the matter of the life? i don't know, and I don't think we ever get to know that... it just is, something must be, isn't it so? Or all is empty, and we are just something what does not exist.
<!--QuoteBegin-Hawkeye+Oct 28 2004, 03:40 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hawkeye @ Oct 28 2004, 03:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The universe is like the watch, ladies and gentlemen. Too complicated and too perfect for it to have formed like it is by chance. You can't say the universe has always been without admitting the possibility that a higher life form created it. Note that I am not saying God, because it could be anything. My point being that something created us. So why?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> How do you know its perfect?
The only reason you say that it can't just be there because it is, is because its hard for the human brain to comprehend that, as it is equilly difficult to think about the extents of the universe, does it go on for ever of does it stop, and if it does stop whats at the edge? You can't say nothing, because thats all space is emptyness littered with random galaxies. And surely nothing can go on for ever?
Back to the point, the universe could of always been there, in a never ending cycle. As someone said blackholes will eventually eat up everything in existence till it can't swallow up anymore, what will happen then? I believe the big bang. When the blackhole can't swallow anymore it will explode like the big bang, thus causing a never ending cycle.
What the origin or the universe is unknown, it might, for all we know never of started, and instead just always been there, hard to believe I know, but we know so little about anything how can we rule it out. There is so much we will <i>never</i> know about the universe. Like the earth has rules, so does the universe. Unlike earth though, we will most likely never know most of the universe's rules.
And kabuum, its scary how much of that is what I believe. I believe we weren't the first civilization, theres too many things that say otherwise. There is common belief that our civilization started from an ancient sea-faring civilization approx. 10,000 years ago, it is also believed that this civilization settled ours in or around modern day Egypt. The reasoning of this belief is many structures that have been found around the globe, indicating a vast knowledge of astronomy to navigate. One is a structure underwater, which in some way indicates the knowledge of astronomy (I can't remember how though), the last time it would of been above water, is approx. 10,000 years ago.
Also the Sphinx and many of its surrounding structures resemble pattens in the stars. IIRC the Sphinx points due east, the last time that the stars resembled the Sphinx, pointing due east from the Sphinx was approx. 10,000 years ago. This is the same time when the other structures nearby lined up with the stars that resembled them.
<!--QuoteBegin-Snidely+Oct 27 2004, 03:22 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Snidely @ Oct 27 2004, 03:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> To provide Wizard@psu with an unending source of amusement. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I am amused <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Hawkeye+Oct 28 2004, 07:40 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hawkeye @ Oct 28 2004, 07:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Even if you think we're an accident, surely you're not going to sit here and make me believe that you're implying that the universe has existed forever and nothing made it. The universe can't just create itself.
There's the watchmaker's scenario where you're walking down the beach and you spot a watch in the sand. You pick up the watch, and you see that it is completely intact; the watch works fine. Now there are two conclusions you can reach. A) That the winds and the tossing and turning of the ocean managed to assemble the watch with all its pieces exactly the way it is, or B) something else created the watch. Seeing how hard it is to believe "A," through process of elimination, "B" must be true.
The universe is like the watch, ladies and gentlemen. Too complicated and too perfect for it to have formed like it is by chance. You can't say the universe has always been without admitting the possibility that a higher life form created it. Note that I am not saying God, because it could be anything. My point being that something created us. So why? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> So the universe cannot be eternal or come from nothing, but some supernatural (God?) being can? Hypocritical imo <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Hawkeye+Oct 28 2004, 09:40 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hawkeye @ Oct 28 2004, 09:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Even if you think we're an accident, surely you're not going to sit here and make me believe that you're implying that the universe has existed forever and nothing made it. The universe can't just create itself.
There's the watchmaker's scenario where you're walking down the beach and you spot a watch in the sand. You pick up the watch, and you see that it is completely intact; the watch works fine. Now there are two conclusions you can reach. A) That the winds and the tossing and turning of the ocean managed to assemble the watch with all its pieces exactly the way it is, or B) something else created the watch. Seeing how hard it is to believe "A," through process of elimination, "B" must be true.
The universe is like the watch, ladies and gentlemen. Too complicated and too perfect for it to have formed like it is by chance. You can't say the universe has always been without admitting the possibility that a higher life form created it. Note that I am not saying God, because it could be anything. My point being that something created us. So why? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Aquianas, isn't that? Or someone else? Anyway, I fail to see how something whose existence can't be explained creating the Universe makes any more sense than the Universe suddenly existing. Who\what made "God" (a term I use loosely here)?
Science can and does explain how the universe exists and how the universe was created.
religion tries to explain why, but since no human has any facts or evidence for this why, anyones opinion is as good as any others.
I like to think existance is because it is. if it wasnt, then it wouldnt be. This is a form of the anthropic principle in metaphysics, says that the universe is the way it is because if it wasnt we wouldnt be here to be asking this question. When youre talking about things as absolute as existance, the language gets funky like this, because it is everything and anything at once.
<!--QuoteBegin-Hawkeye+Oct 27 2004, 09:17 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hawkeye @ Oct 27 2004, 09:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Couple of funny quotes off-hand about reasons for existing.
I really think God must have been bored off his rocker. Then one day, it hit him. Oh yeah! I can make universes! And so he makes us, and we are sort of his television set. Otherwise, I can't see any reason why he created us. It isn't like he depends on us for existance. It's like it would make more sense that God didn't exist at all.
Sort of an argument against God, wouldn't you say? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I know this is extreamly late... But if you had been sitting around doing nothing for an infiante amount of time, what would you do?
<!--QuoteBegin-wizard@psu+Oct 28 2004, 11:07 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (wizard@psu @ Oct 28 2004, 11:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Snidely+Oct 27 2004, 03:22 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Snidely @ Oct 27 2004, 03:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> To provide Wizard@psu with an unending source of amusement. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I am amused <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I am validated!
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I know this is extreamly late... But if you had been sitting around doing nothing for an infinate amount of time, what would you do?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Make a sandwich.
<!--QuoteBegin-Snidely+Oct 29 2004, 01:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Snidely @ Oct 29 2004, 01:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Make a sandwich.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Good point, sandwiches are nasty and versitile, thats what I would do if I was bored.... infact I'll go make one now.
On-topic <!--QuoteBegin-Zel+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zel)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Science can and does explain how the universe exists and how the universe was created.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Although science can answer how, it can't answer why or what caused it to exist, or what was there before.
by the nature of the big bang singularity, with all matter and energy coming in to a single point. there is, by definition, NO WAY to have ANY evidence of what happened before it within the n-dimensional natural world.
we can speculate on several theories that would work, my favorites include recursive big bounce, where the unviserse is recreated by a previous one repeatedly, but this does not explain how the first one formed, and it doesnt attempt to explain why. If youre interested in a nice explanation of how our universe will create the next, read this short story; <a href='ftp://nsf:t1m3@yuo.ath.cx/asimov01.htm' target='_blank'>ftp://nsf:t1m3@yuo.ath.cx/asimov01.htm</a>
<!--QuoteBegin-Zel+Oct 29 2004, 10:54 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zel @ Oct 29 2004, 10:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> by the nature of the big bang singularity, with all matter and energy coming in to a single point. there is, by definition, NO WAY to have ANY evidence of what happened before it within the n-dimensional natural world.
we can speculate on several theories that would work, my favorites include recursive big bounce, where the unviserse is recreated by a previous one repeatedly, but this does not explain how the first one formed, and it doesnt attempt to explain why. If youre interested in a nice explanation of how our universe will create the next, read this short story; <a href='ftp://nsf:t1m3@yuo.ath.cx/asimov01.htm' target='_blank'>ftp://nsf:t1m3@yuo.ath.cx/asimov01.htm</a> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> For the universe to collapse again it is estimated that more than 75% of the universe must be dark matter. Scientists have not yet 'discovered' dark matter or have found a way to quantitatively measure it.
Therefore, I am going to avoid relying on science as the sole guide for my life when they haven't been able to even measure what 75% of our universe consists of.
Well showing the existance of God is most definitely getting us no where about why we exist, though it does give us a little more insight. It is the motivation of a great being, whatever that might be, and not by mere chance.
I do, of course, realize this begs the question "Where did God come from?" So yes, I realize the irony here.
We are a organic weapon, designed by the anorganics in the war against the organics. If the wrong people read this, i´ll be dead soon, so pls remember me.
<!--QuoteBegin-wizard@psu+Oct 29 2004, 05:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (wizard@psu @ Oct 29 2004, 05:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Zel+Oct 29 2004, 10:54 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zel @ Oct 29 2004, 10:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> by the nature of the big bang singularity, with all matter and energy coming in to a single point. there is, by definition, NO WAY to have ANY evidence of what happened before it within the n-dimensional natural world.
we can speculate on several theories that would work, my favorites include recursive big bounce, where the unviserse is recreated by a previous one repeatedly, but this does not explain how the first one formed, and it doesnt attempt to explain why. If youre interested in a nice explanation of how our universe will create the next, read this short story; <a href='ftp://nsf:t1m3@yuo.ath.cx/asimov01.htm' target='_blank'>ftp://nsf:t1m3@yuo.ath.cx/asimov01.htm</a> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> For the universe to collapse again it is estimated that more than 75% of the universe must be dark matter. Scientists have not yet 'discovered' dark matter or have found a way to quantitatively measure it.
Therefore, I am going to avoid relying on science as the sole guide for my life when they haven't been able to even measure what 75% of our universe consists of. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, scientists have discovered dark matter, its just that estimations on what we have found still doesn't give enough mass to cause a Big Crunch.
<!--QuoteBegin-Aldaris+Oct 29 2004, 11:51 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Aldaris @ Oct 29 2004, 11:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-wizard@psu+Oct 29 2004, 05:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (wizard@psu @ Oct 29 2004, 05:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Zel+Oct 29 2004, 10:54 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zel @ Oct 29 2004, 10:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> by the nature of the big bang singularity, with all matter and energy coming in to a single point. there is, by definition, NO WAY to have ANY evidence of what happened before it within the n-dimensional natural world.
we can speculate on several theories that would work, my favorites include recursive big bounce, where the unviserse is recreated by a previous one repeatedly, but this does not explain how the first one formed, and it doesnt attempt to explain why. If youre interested in a nice explanation of how our universe will create the next, read this short story; <a href='ftp://nsf:t1m3@yuo.ath.cx/asimov01.htm' target='_blank'>ftp://nsf:t1m3@yuo.ath.cx/asimov01.htm</a> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> For the universe to collapse again it is estimated that more than 75% of the universe must be dark matter. Scientists have not yet 'discovered' dark matter or have found a way to quantitatively measure it.
Therefore, I am going to avoid relying on science as the sole guide for my life when they haven't been able to even measure what 75% of our universe consists of. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, scientists have discovered dark matter, its just that estimations on what we have found still doesn't give enough mass to cause a Big Crunch. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> They more or less have proved its existance yet have not been able to exhaustivly measure/test it to figure out what it is exactly.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The matter which is postulated to account for at least 90% of the mass of the Universe, but which has yet to be directly detected. The evidence for its existence comes mainly from observations of the dynamics of stars in galaxies and of galaxies in clusters of galaxies, from gravitational lensing and from cosmological models. Candidates for dark matter range from brown dwarfs and black holes to weakly-interacting elementary particles such as low-mass, fast-moving neutrinos or massive, slow-moving cold dark matter particles. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's a good reason why we haven't found what supposedly 90% of the universe is made out of. It is because it simply does not exist.
Our model of the universe can't be constricted by 3 dimensions. Time affects gravity as well, and so adds another dimension of "closeness" to which things can pull themselves closer. Factor that in, and I think you'll find our guess on the mass of the universe is then consistent with the slowdown of expanding galaxies on the outskirts of our farthest visible range.
The theory of relativity has a lot more in common with quantum theory than is given credit for. (I mean it'd have to if both can be true) I just think people aren't thinking outisde the box yet.
<!--QuoteBegin-Hawkeye+Oct 29 2004, 12:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hawkeye @ Oct 29 2004, 12:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> There's a good reason why we haven't found what supposedly 90% of the universe is made out of. It is because it simply does not exist.
Our model of the universe can't be constricted by 3 dimensions. Time affects gravity as well, and so adds another dimension of "closeness" to which things can pull themselves closer. Factor that in, and I think you'll find our guess on the mass of the universe is then consistent with the slowdown of expanding galaxies on the outskirts of our farthest visible range.
The theory of relativity has a lot more in common with quantum theory than is given credit for. (I mean it'd have to if both can be true) I just think people aren't thinking outisde the box yet. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I was under the impression that said outer rim galaxies were accellerating...
<!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Oct 29 2004, 01:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Oct 29 2004, 01:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Hawkeye+Oct 29 2004, 12:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hawkeye @ Oct 29 2004, 12:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> There's a good reason why we haven't found what supposedly 90% of the universe is made out of. It is because it simply does not exist.
Our model of the universe can't be constricted by 3 dimensions. Time affects gravity as well, and so adds another dimension of "closeness" to which things can pull themselves closer. Factor that in, and I think you'll find our guess on the mass of the universe is then consistent with the slowdown of expanding galaxies on the outskirts of our farthest visible range.
The theory of relativity has a lot more in common with quantum theory than is given credit for. (I mean it'd have to if both can be true) I just think people aren't thinking outisde the box yet. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I was under the impression that said outer rim galaxies were accellerating... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Only the ones we can see <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-wizard@psu+Oct 29 2004, 02:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (wizard@psu @ Oct 29 2004, 02:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Oct 29 2004, 01:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Oct 29 2004, 01:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Hawkeye+Oct 29 2004, 12:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hawkeye @ Oct 29 2004, 12:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> There's a good reason why we haven't found what supposedly 90% of the universe is made out of. It is because it simply does not exist.
Our model of the universe can't be constricted by 3 dimensions. Time affects gravity as well, and so adds another dimension of "closeness" to which things can pull themselves closer. Factor that in, and I think you'll find our guess on the mass of the universe is then consistent with the slowdown of expanding galaxies on the outskirts of our farthest visible range.
The theory of relativity has a lot more in common with quantum theory than is given credit for. (I mean it'd have to if both can be true) I just think people aren't thinking outisde the box yet. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I was under the impression that said outer rim galaxies were accellerating... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Only the ones we can see <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> So is the univese accelerating or decellerating? Do you have any links? Its kind of an important point.
<!--QuoteBegin-wizard@psu+Oct 29 2004, 08:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (wizard@psu @ Oct 29 2004, 08:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Oct 29 2004, 01:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Oct 29 2004, 01:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Hawkeye+Oct 29 2004, 12:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hawkeye @ Oct 29 2004, 12:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> There's a good reason why we haven't found what supposedly 90% of the universe is made out of. It is because it simply does not exist.
Our model of the universe can't be constricted by 3 dimensions. Time affects gravity as well, and so adds another dimension of "closeness" to which things can pull themselves closer. Factor that in, and I think you'll find our guess on the mass of the universe is then consistent with the slowdown of expanding galaxies on the outskirts of our farthest visible range.
The theory of relativity has a lot more in common with quantum theory than is given credit for. (I mean it'd have to if both can be true) I just think people aren't thinking outisde the box yet. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I was under the impression that said outer rim galaxies were accellerating... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Only the ones we can see <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Hawkeye I'm not to sure on this one, but don't you think if it was that simple, some of the most intelligent people on the planet might of already figured that. The fact is its not that simple. Dark matter does exist, it simply has to in one form or another.
Like someone else has said, this dark matter isn't giving big enough pull to cause the universe to cave in on its self though, so theres that theory out the window.
And only the ones we can see are accelerating? Does that mean the ones we can't see are just sitting there and waiting to be crashed into by these accelerating galaxies?
Now i'll ask a question: Why does the universe have to have an origin or creator?
<!--QuoteBegin-Kester+Oct 29 2004, 05:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kester @ Oct 29 2004, 05:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-wizard@psu+Oct 29 2004, 08:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (wizard@psu @ Oct 29 2004, 08:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Oct 29 2004, 01:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Oct 29 2004, 01:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Hawkeye+Oct 29 2004, 12:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hawkeye @ Oct 29 2004, 12:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> There's a good reason why we haven't found what supposedly 90% of the universe is made out of. It is because it simply does not exist.
Our model of the universe can't be constricted by 3 dimensions. Time affects gravity as well, and so adds another dimension of "closeness" to which things can pull themselves closer. Factor that in, and I think you'll find our guess on the mass of the universe is then consistent with the slowdown of expanding galaxies on the outskirts of our farthest visible range.
The theory of relativity has a lot more in common with quantum theory than is given credit for. (I mean it'd have to if both can be true) I just think people aren't thinking outisde the box yet. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I was under the impression that said outer rim galaxies were accellerating... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Only the ones we can see <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hawkeye I'm not to sure on this one, but don't you think if it was that simple, some of the most intelligent people on the planet might of already figured that. The fact is its not that simple. Dark matter does exist, it simply has to in one form or another.
Like someone else has said, this dark matter isn't giving big enough pull to cause the universe to cave in on its self though, so theres that theory out the window.
And only the ones we can see are accelerating? Does that mean the ones we can't see are just sitting there and waiting to be crashed into by these accelerating galaxies?
Now i'll ask a question: Why does the universe have to have an origin or creator? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It would be sensical to assume so, normal objects don't just accelerate through empty space, the acceleration is a massive problem to movement physics. The theory must go that for every excelerating object there is a rapidly decelerating object pulling it faster forward, the obvious problem is a compleat lack of evidence to back the theory. As far as I have ever been told there hasn't been anything whatsoever detected beyond the outer most accelerating bodies.
I carved a pumpkin this year and I had a really good time. Sure it rotted in a few days but I really did get a tiny bit of pleasure from it. The same, I believe is true with God. I believe that when God "created man in his image" this meant that he gave us a desire to create things ourselves.
God is God. Why not create? He doesn't <b>need</b> to, but he has the power and authority to do so, if he wishes and clearly he wished. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-DarkATi+Oct 29 2004, 09:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DarkATi @ Oct 29 2004, 09:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> God created us for his pleasure.
I carved a pumpkin this year and I had a really good time. Sure it rotted in a few days but I really did get a tiny bit of pleasure from it. The same, I believe is true with God. I believe that when God "created man in his image" this meant that he gave us a desire to create things ourselves.
God is God. Why not create? He doesn't <b>need</b> to, but he has the power and authority to do so, if he wishes and clearly he wished. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
~ DarkATi <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Its not like he has anything better to do anyways.
dark matter exists in the same fashion that ptolemeic epicycles exist (Definition: <a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ptolemaic_system)' target='_blank'>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ptolemaic_system)</a>
Way back when, people could see that the sun went around the earth and it was clear. then they discovered planets, which seemed to go about the earth, but occasionally turn backwards. this is because they actually all orbit the sun, and our relative direction gets turned around at certain parts of the revolution. However, the scientists of the day decided that it made more sense to use a complex system of rotating cyclic orbs hung on giant crystal spheres around the earth. this way the retrograde motion was explained within the heliocentric model of the universe. The model fit, so was deemed true. Dark matter is the same, it seems to work for our current understanding of the universe, but has some odd flaws likw the existance of so much of it.
Dark matter is any undetectable matter, and as i understand it, it could be a lot of rock floating out there adding mass to the universe, but they claim it isnt normal rock, it is undetectably in another dimension. Hooey i say. they are inventing science to explain discrepancies in the newtonian model of gravity.
Theres this thing called MOND, Modified Newtonian Dynamics that simply redefines the laws of gravity as we have observed them to account for the expansion of the universe. <a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOND' target='_blank'>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOND</a> Instead of using our current exponential model g=GMm/r^2 for gravity which appears to be flawed at galactic distances (so flawed that we have inferred the existance of a new kind of matter!? and you all believe it?!) the new system tweaks the equation at large distances and no new matter is needed.
For an example of such a tweak, envision y=x^2, then envision y=x^2.1, they look like the exact same line from x=0 through x=5ish then diverge radically as the second equation grows faster, such that at x=100 the difference is immense. All of our gravity experiments work on the scale of our planet, but these equations are for the scale of the galaxy, the difference is unmeasurable for us.
in order to test the new theorem we would need to send a probe out to a statistically significant fraction of the distance at which the new formula diverges from the old, and we cant do that yet. Just as Ptolemeic scientists didnt ahve the telescopes neccesary to know how the solar system flew....
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also, the Big Crunch assumes that the universe has to collapse to a center point, but it doesnt. When all stars go nova or become black holes, then the black holes will eat each other and there will be a new singularity, although it doesnt ahve to be in the center as you would envision during the big-crunch scenario. this theory assumes black holes last forever, but Hawking Radiation plays some part in denouncing that, it is still an unknown to Humanity.
Comments
If there is live out there and we are extinct its going to be pretty amazing how they will start digging us up to learn about our past. Im sure they'll think right away "What a bunch of scary savages" or something along the line. Probably the only reason ET hasnt phoned us is if we feel threatened they know we have many nukes and can turn this planet into, well nothing. Although if there is an ET and hes friendly it would be awsome to meet and talk with him. Considering he would most likely be highly intelligent and able to learn many languages quickly.
Even though it is weird how there is no life out there yet except for bacteria they found on Mars. Just us in this gigantic universe.
Wrong. The answer is 42. We are here to find out what the question is. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The question is "What is six times nine?"
There we go. purpose served, we can all go home.
[serious:]
If all we are here to do is to reproduce, then all hte nuns, preists, homosexuals, celibates and old people are just a waste of space. They aren't going to reproduce, so get rid of them to make way for the people who will. Also, lets get rid of people who use contraceptives. They are, after all, interfering with our purpose. BABIES!!111!1
For those of you who think there is no purpose at all, what are you still doing alive? You are not going to accomplish anything that matters in the rest of your life, so you might as well just pop your clogs now.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Firstly I haven't read the book so I might be missing something, but last time I check "six times nine" doesnt = 42, it = 54; six times seven = 42.
I find your last comment slightly disturbing, as I believe there is no real purpose (other than to reproduce, which I believe was the original purpose of any living thing, but no longer really as the only purpose, or even a purpose of life at all anymore). But I would like to enjoy my life, for all i know it the only one i'm gonna get, I might aswell have some fun and enjoy myself.
On the reason of why do we exist is like many other people have said, mutation of DNA, its simple as. We weren't placed here for a reason, but more by accident. Do you know how many varibles making a planet hospitable has? There is so many different things that happened to the earth, before any life started, that made earth hospitable, without just one of those things happening we wouldn't be here.
DuoGodOfDeath, the Science Channel is a very interesting channel (well the stuff about space is) and about your comment<!--QuoteBegin-DuoGodOfDeath+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DuoGodOfDeath)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Even though it is weird how there is no life out there yet except for bacteria they found on Mars. Just us in this gigantic universe.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its a bit of a weird statement, "no life out there yet" inparticular, does this mean someone is going to create life? I think what you ment is no life <i>found</i> yet. I'm a firm believer that life exist outside our planetary system, I find it to hard to believe that it couldn't. Although I fully understand how rare and hard it it to have a planet capable of supporting life, there is so many billions of billions of galaxies out there, each with billions of billions of stars. In all that you can't possibly say that the same freak factors that contributed to life haven't happened again.
Think about it- it doesn't make sense that the Universe couldv'e just existed forever, neither does it make sense that it couldv'e just "appeared".
So I don't think there's any reason for the existence of anything, including humans. There was just alot of coincidences, and somewhere a bunch of "stuff" was in the exact right positions for the "stuff" to replicate itself. Then, from that, we evolved. No reason for it, as in no "higher purpose".
There's the watchmaker's scenario where you're walking down the beach and you spot a watch in the sand. You pick up the watch, and you see that it is completely intact; the watch works fine. Now there are two conclusions you can reach. A) That the winds and the tossing and turning of the ocean managed to assemble the watch with all its pieces exactly the way it is, or B) something else created the watch. Seeing how hard it is to believe "A," through process of elimination, "B" must be true.
The universe is like the watch, ladies and gentlemen. Too complicated and too perfect for it to have formed like it is by chance. You can't say the universe has always been without admitting the possibility that a higher life form created it. Note that I am not saying God, because it could be anything. My point being that something created us. So why?
Wrong. The answer is 42. We are here to find out what the question is. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The question is "What is six times nine?"
There we go. purpose served, we can all go home.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Firstly I haven't read the book so I might be missing something, but last time I check "six times nine" doesnt = 42, it = 54; six times seven = 42. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its supposed to be wrong, I think.
btw, in base 13, 6 multiplied by 9 does equal 42, but this was not done on purpose.
People from Tibet believe that there has been 8 epohs. One epoh means one civilizations life time. After that, the catastrophy or something took place, and all those citys dissaperaed, only smaller groups of human survived and they had to start all over.
That would explain those mysteris how the human footprint is in the same stone where dinosaur footprint is. And that would explain how the bullets got in the dinosaur sceleton and that would explain that 65 million years old human skull found inside a rock (very badly survived inside a rock).
Most of these things are forgotten, mostly bechause nobody can explain these things, it would turn over entire history. Most of such things are once found and then re-found from a storage or something..
Lately, the scientists discovered a circular formation from under the ice in Antarktis. They don't know what it is, but it is thought to be an old volcanoue.
But if you look at the old maps and if you read R. Bauvals theory that Atlantis on Antarktis continent (It is said that there was a huge continent between the Old "British" isles and America, Island was a bit lower. It was same big as America and there was that survivor city from 7-th epoh called Atlantis. And there are even Pyramids believed to be under the ice (No, it is not from the crappy AvP movie). Actually there are Pyramids all over the world, from Britain to China.
There are buildings that make up a huge map to something. Like the so called "golden carve" (I don't know how to spell it right in english..).
And ancient citys and main centers of India and Tibet like Tiahuanaco and Cuzco are believed to be created by an old man with white beard and white hair who came from the east. Before him, people were living in caves, they had no clothes and nothing, like the indianas. The man teached them how to raise crops and build cottages and how to make clothes and stuff. He also had two golden balls or something with him, he claimed that those things led him the way and then those two golden things fell into the deep ground and to those places, Cuzco and Tiahuanaco were created. There are many stories from different cultures that tell us something about the ancient people who came from the north.
There are many great buildings what hold mystery - how those were built? Bechause those things are enonormous. Lets leave out the Egyptian Pyramids. But the greatest stone block used in Egypt (On some kind of a temple) weight about 200 tons, biggest stone blocks of Baalbeck (The Creecks named it Heliopolis) weight about 400 tons, it is the same as to put 400 small cars on top of each other. And in Northen-Syberia, there are those two (or even more) enonormous stone menhirs what are 30 meters above ground and probably 10 - 20 meters under the surface..
And there are millions of balls all over the world. Made from stone, iron, wood etc, in different sizes, from small golfball to huge 20 meters.. Nobody knows where these things came from and what was their purpose. There was one ball what seemed to be very old. It was discovered from the beach and it was covered with stone formations. It was cut half, hardly, very hardly. Then the different layers of stone, woof, iron, and other metals showed up - Mystery.
I don't know whether those were aliens or people from ancient Civilization or both (I believe the last one) but we are not the first ones on this planet. Mars or Phaeton (The lost planet what makes the Asteroid Belt nowadays).
The evolution history of this planet is older and more mysterious than we can imagine. I believe that we are actually from another planet and somebody planted us here and ancient civilizations got connections and somehow those marks survived.
There are tons of marks of aliens, from Christianity to old cave-people. Drawings, writings, monuments, etc..
The very interesting dogons knowledge etc..
Why do we exist? Well, it depends how to ask. If you ask Why do WE exist, then I can answer. Maybe we are the aliens, maybe we are planted here on this planet throush some lifeform by the master race who rules a galaxy? Interesting.
There are pyramids and interesting formations on Mars, in Cydonia area. Lately, there is water found on Mars and stuff.
And actually an Earth-like planet was discovered lately. Its position is pretty much the same as earths and maybe there is life there?
But if we are searching the VERY higly developed civilization, then we should look into the centre of galaxy...
I believe that there are other dimentions where are no physical world, it is like single thought in pure emptyness. I believe that everything is formed by an energy. Energy what makes things moveing.
There are lifeforms who come to visit us from other dimensions and they have no physical body, so they create a cristallic object, so we could understand them.
I believe that this life here is not the only one. Before we were born, our soul, our energy still existed, and when we die, we just travel to another dimention.
How this world happened, is just that somehow, a new dimention developed and it had new features, like physical body. So, some energy slipped here and formed material with a big bang. Then, it begun to spread.
How life got here? I don't know. Maybe it was just that two substances got together and woila, there was a thinking lifeform from just a material...
Actually I think that those substances or call them whatever, formed a body what could hold an energy properly, so this chance was just used. Fill the empty slots. Energy in energy.
And black hole is just a hole in dimention what leads to antoher dimention where is only energy or whatever...
But what is the matter of the life? i don't know, and I don't think we ever get to know that... it just is, something must be, isn't it so? Or all is empty, and we are just something what does not exist.
How do you know its perfect?
The only reason you say that it can't just be there because it is, is because its hard for the human brain to comprehend that, as it is equilly difficult to think about the extents of the universe, does it go on for ever of does it stop, and if it does stop whats at the edge? You can't say nothing, because thats all space is emptyness littered with random galaxies. And surely nothing can go on for ever?
Back to the point, the universe could of always been there, in a never ending cycle. As someone said blackholes will eventually eat up everything in existence till it can't swallow up anymore, what will happen then? I believe the big bang. When the blackhole can't swallow anymore it will explode like the big bang, thus causing a never ending cycle.
What the origin or the universe is unknown, it might, for all we know never of started, and instead just always been there, hard to believe I know, but we know so little about anything how can we rule it out. There is so much we will <i>never</i> know about the universe. Like the earth has rules, so does the universe. Unlike earth though, we will most likely never know most of the universe's rules.
And kabuum, its scary how much of that is what I believe. I believe we weren't the first civilization, theres too many things that say otherwise. There is common belief that our civilization started from an ancient sea-faring civilization approx. 10,000 years ago, it is also believed that this civilization settled ours in or around modern day Egypt. The reasoning of this belief is many structures that have been found around the globe, indicating a vast knowledge of astronomy to navigate. One is a structure underwater, which in some way indicates the knowledge of astronomy (I can't remember how though), the last time it would of been above water, is approx. 10,000 years ago.
Also the Sphinx and many of its surrounding structures resemble pattens in the stars. IIRC the Sphinx points due east, the last time that the stars resembled the Sphinx, pointing due east from the Sphinx was approx. 10,000 years ago. This is the same time when the other structures nearby lined up with the stars that resembled them.
I am amused <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
There's the watchmaker's scenario where you're walking down the beach and you spot a watch in the sand. You pick up the watch, and you see that it is completely intact; the watch works fine. Now there are two conclusions you can reach. A) That the winds and the tossing and turning of the ocean managed to assemble the watch with all its pieces exactly the way it is, or B) something else created the watch. Seeing how hard it is to believe "A," through process of elimination, "B" must be true.
The universe is like the watch, ladies and gentlemen. Too complicated and too perfect for it to have formed like it is by chance. You can't say the universe has always been without admitting the possibility that a higher life form created it. Note that I am not saying God, because it could be anything. My point being that something created us. So why? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
So the universe cannot be eternal or come from nothing, but some supernatural (God?) being can? Hypocritical imo <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
There's the watchmaker's scenario where you're walking down the beach and you spot a watch in the sand. You pick up the watch, and you see that it is completely intact; the watch works fine. Now there are two conclusions you can reach. A) That the winds and the tossing and turning of the ocean managed to assemble the watch with all its pieces exactly the way it is, or B) something else created the watch. Seeing how hard it is to believe "A," through process of elimination, "B" must be true.
The universe is like the watch, ladies and gentlemen. Too complicated and too perfect for it to have formed like it is by chance. You can't say the universe has always been without admitting the possibility that a higher life form created it. Note that I am not saying God, because it could be anything. My point being that something created us. So why? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Aquianas, isn't that? Or someone else? Anyway, I fail to see how something whose existence can't be explained creating the Universe makes any more sense than the Universe suddenly existing. Who\what made "God" (a term I use loosely here)?
religion tries to explain why, but since no human has any facts or evidence for this why, anyones opinion is as good as any others.
I like to think existance is because it is. if it wasnt, then it wouldnt be. This is a form of the anthropic principle in metaphysics, says that the universe is the way it is because if it wasnt we wouldnt be here to be asking this question. When youre talking about things as absolute as existance, the language gets funky like this, because it is everything and anything at once.
<a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropic_principle' target='_blank'>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropic_principle</a>
I really think God must have been bored off his rocker. Then one day, it hit him. Oh yeah! I can make universes! And so he makes us, and we are sort of his television set. Otherwise, I can't see any reason why he created us. It isn't like he depends on us for existance. It's like it would make more sense that God didn't exist at all.
Sort of an argument against God, wouldn't you say? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know this is extreamly late... But if you had been sitting around doing nothing for an infiante amount of time, what would you do?
I am amused <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am validated!
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I know this is extreamly late... But if you had been sitting around doing nothing for an infinate amount of time, what would you do?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Make a sandwich.
Good point, sandwiches are nasty and versitile, thats what I would do if I was bored.... infact I'll go make one now.
On-topic
<!--QuoteBegin-Zel+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zel)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Science can and does explain how the universe exists and how the universe was created.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Although science can answer how, it can't answer why or what caused it to exist, or what was there before.
we can speculate on several theories that would work, my favorites include recursive big bounce, where the unviserse is recreated by a previous one repeatedly, but this does not explain how the first one formed, and it doesnt attempt to explain why. If youre interested in a nice explanation of how our universe will create the next, read this short story;
<a href='ftp://nsf:t1m3@yuo.ath.cx/asimov01.htm' target='_blank'>ftp://nsf:t1m3@yuo.ath.cx/asimov01.htm</a>
we can speculate on several theories that would work, my favorites include recursive big bounce, where the unviserse is recreated by a previous one repeatedly, but this does not explain how the first one formed, and it doesnt attempt to explain why. If youre interested in a nice explanation of how our universe will create the next, read this short story;
<a href='ftp://nsf:t1m3@yuo.ath.cx/asimov01.htm' target='_blank'>ftp://nsf:t1m3@yuo.ath.cx/asimov01.htm</a> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
For the universe to collapse again it is estimated that more than 75% of the universe must be dark matter. Scientists have not yet 'discovered' dark matter or have found a way to quantitatively measure it.
Therefore, I am going to avoid relying on science as the sole guide for my life when they haven't been able to even measure what 75% of our universe consists of.
I do, of course, realize this begs the question "Where did God come from?" So yes, I realize the irony here.
If the wrong people read this, i´ll be dead soon, so pls remember me.
we can speculate on several theories that would work, my favorites include recursive big bounce, where the unviserse is recreated by a previous one repeatedly, but this does not explain how the first one formed, and it doesnt attempt to explain why. If youre interested in a nice explanation of how our universe will create the next, read this short story;
<a href='ftp://nsf:t1m3@yuo.ath.cx/asimov01.htm' target='_blank'>ftp://nsf:t1m3@yuo.ath.cx/asimov01.htm</a> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For the universe to collapse again it is estimated that more than 75% of the universe must be dark matter. Scientists have not yet 'discovered' dark matter or have found a way to quantitatively measure it.
Therefore, I am going to avoid relying on science as the sole guide for my life when they haven't been able to even measure what 75% of our universe consists of. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, scientists have discovered dark matter, its just that estimations on what we have found still doesn't give enough mass to cause a Big Crunch.
we can speculate on several theories that would work, my favorites include recursive big bounce, where the unviserse is recreated by a previous one repeatedly, but this does not explain how the first one formed, and it doesnt attempt to explain why. If youre interested in a nice explanation of how our universe will create the next, read this short story;
<a href='ftp://nsf:t1m3@yuo.ath.cx/asimov01.htm' target='_blank'>ftp://nsf:t1m3@yuo.ath.cx/asimov01.htm</a> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For the universe to collapse again it is estimated that more than 75% of the universe must be dark matter. Scientists have not yet 'discovered' dark matter or have found a way to quantitatively measure it.
Therefore, I am going to avoid relying on science as the sole guide for my life when they haven't been able to even measure what 75% of our universe consists of. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, scientists have discovered dark matter, its just that estimations on what we have found still doesn't give enough mass to cause a Big Crunch. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They more or less have proved its existance yet have not been able to exhaustivly measure/test it to figure out what it is exactly.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The matter which is postulated to account for at least 90% of the mass of the Universe, but which has yet to be directly detected. The evidence for its existence comes mainly from observations of the dynamics of stars in galaxies and of galaxies in clusters of galaxies, from gravitational lensing and from cosmological models. Candidates for dark matter range from brown dwarfs and black holes to weakly-interacting elementary particles such as low-mass, fast-moving neutrinos or massive, slow-moving cold dark matter particles.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Our model of the universe can't be constricted by 3 dimensions. Time affects gravity as well, and so adds another dimension of "closeness" to which things can pull themselves closer. Factor that in, and I think you'll find our guess on the mass of the universe is then consistent with the slowdown of expanding galaxies on the outskirts of our farthest visible range.
The theory of relativity has a lot more in common with quantum theory than is given credit for. (I mean it'd have to if both can be true)
I just think people aren't thinking outisde the box yet.
Our model of the universe can't be constricted by 3 dimensions. Time affects gravity as well, and so adds another dimension of "closeness" to which things can pull themselves closer. Factor that in, and I think you'll find our guess on the mass of the universe is then consistent with the slowdown of expanding galaxies on the outskirts of our farthest visible range.
The theory of relativity has a lot more in common with quantum theory than is given credit for. (I mean it'd have to if both can be true)
I just think people aren't thinking outisde the box yet. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was under the impression that said outer rim galaxies were accellerating...
Our model of the universe can't be constricted by 3 dimensions. Time affects gravity as well, and so adds another dimension of "closeness" to which things can pull themselves closer. Factor that in, and I think you'll find our guess on the mass of the universe is then consistent with the slowdown of expanding galaxies on the outskirts of our farthest visible range.
The theory of relativity has a lot more in common with quantum theory than is given credit for. (I mean it'd have to if both can be true)
I just think people aren't thinking outisde the box yet. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was under the impression that said outer rim galaxies were accellerating... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Only the ones we can see <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Our model of the universe can't be constricted by 3 dimensions. Time affects gravity as well, and so adds another dimension of "closeness" to which things can pull themselves closer. Factor that in, and I think you'll find our guess on the mass of the universe is then consistent with the slowdown of expanding galaxies on the outskirts of our farthest visible range.
The theory of relativity has a lot more in common with quantum theory than is given credit for. (I mean it'd have to if both can be true)
I just think people aren't thinking outisde the box yet. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was under the impression that said outer rim galaxies were accellerating... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Only the ones we can see <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
So is the univese accelerating or decellerating? Do you have any links? Its kind of an important point.
Our model of the universe can't be constricted by 3 dimensions. Time affects gravity as well, and so adds another dimension of "closeness" to which things can pull themselves closer. Factor that in, and I think you'll find our guess on the mass of the universe is then consistent with the slowdown of expanding galaxies on the outskirts of our farthest visible range.
The theory of relativity has a lot more in common with quantum theory than is given credit for. (I mean it'd have to if both can be true)
I just think people aren't thinking outisde the box yet. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was under the impression that said outer rim galaxies were accellerating... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Only the ones we can see <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hawkeye I'm not to sure on this one, but don't you think if it was that simple, some of the most intelligent people on the planet might of already figured that. The fact is its not that simple. Dark matter does exist, it simply has to in one form or another.
Like someone else has said, this dark matter isn't giving big enough pull to cause the universe to cave in on its self though, so theres that theory out the window.
And only the ones we can see are accelerating? Does that mean the ones we can't see are just sitting there and waiting to be crashed into by these accelerating galaxies?
Now i'll ask a question:
Why does the universe have to have an origin or creator?
Our model of the universe can't be constricted by 3 dimensions. Time affects gravity as well, and so adds another dimension of "closeness" to which things can pull themselves closer. Factor that in, and I think you'll find our guess on the mass of the universe is then consistent with the slowdown of expanding galaxies on the outskirts of our farthest visible range.
The theory of relativity has a lot more in common with quantum theory than is given credit for. (I mean it'd have to if both can be true)
I just think people aren't thinking outisde the box yet. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was under the impression that said outer rim galaxies were accellerating... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Only the ones we can see <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hawkeye I'm not to sure on this one, but don't you think if it was that simple, some of the most intelligent people on the planet might of already figured that. The fact is its not that simple. Dark matter does exist, it simply has to in one form or another.
Like someone else has said, this dark matter isn't giving big enough pull to cause the universe to cave in on its self though, so theres that theory out the window.
And only the ones we can see are accelerating? Does that mean the ones we can't see are just sitting there and waiting to be crashed into by these accelerating galaxies?
Now i'll ask a question:
Why does the universe have to have an origin or creator? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It would be sensical to assume so, normal objects don't just accelerate through empty space, the acceleration is a massive problem to movement physics. The theory must go that for every excelerating object there is a rapidly decelerating object pulling it faster forward, the obvious problem is a compleat lack of evidence to back the theory. As far as I have ever been told there hasn't been anything whatsoever detected beyond the outer most accelerating bodies.
I carved a pumpkin this year and I had a really good time. Sure it rotted in a few days but I really did get a tiny bit of pleasure from it. The same, I believe is true with God. I believe that when God "created man in his image" this meant that he gave us a desire to create things ourselves.
God is God. Why not create? He doesn't <b>need</b> to, but he has the power and authority to do so, if he wishes and clearly he wished. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
~ DarkATi
I carved a pumpkin this year and I had a really good time. Sure it rotted in a few days but I really did get a tiny bit of pleasure from it. The same, I believe is true with God. I believe that when God "created man in his image" this meant that he gave us a desire to create things ourselves.
God is God. Why not create? He doesn't <b>need</b> to, but he has the power and authority to do so, if he wishes and clearly he wished. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
~ DarkATi <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its not like he has anything better to do anyways.
(Definition: <a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ptolemaic_system)' target='_blank'>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ptolemaic_system)</a>
Way back when, people could see that the sun went around the earth and it was clear. then they discovered planets, which seemed to go about the earth, but occasionally turn backwards. this is because they actually all orbit the sun, and our relative direction gets turned around at certain parts of the revolution.
However, the scientists of the day decided that it made more sense to use a complex system of rotating cyclic orbs hung on giant crystal spheres around the earth. this way the retrograde motion was explained within the heliocentric model of the universe. The model fit, so was deemed true.
Dark matter is the same, it seems to work for our current understanding of the universe, but has some odd flaws likw the existance of so much of it.
Dark matter is any undetectable matter, and as i understand it, it could be a lot of rock floating out there adding mass to the universe, but they claim it isnt normal rock, it is undetectably in another dimension. Hooey i say. they are inventing science to explain discrepancies in the newtonian model of gravity.
Theres this thing called MOND, Modified Newtonian Dynamics that simply redefines the laws of gravity as we have observed them to account for the expansion of the universe.
<a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOND' target='_blank'>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOND</a>
Instead of using our current exponential model g=GMm/r^2 for gravity which appears to be flawed at galactic distances (so flawed that we have inferred the existance of a new kind of matter!? and you all believe it?!) the new system tweaks the equation at large distances and no new matter is needed.
For an example of such a tweak, envision y=x^2, then envision y=x^2.1, they look like the exact same line from x=0 through x=5ish then diverge radically as the second equation grows faster, such that at x=100 the difference is immense. All of our gravity experiments work on the scale of our planet, but these equations are for the scale of the galaxy, the difference is unmeasurable for us.
in order to test the new theorem we would need to send a probe out to a statistically significant fraction of the distance at which the new formula diverges from the old, and we cant do that yet. Just as Ptolemeic scientists didnt ahve the telescopes neccesary to know how the solar system flew....
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also, the Big Crunch assumes that the universe has to collapse to a center point, but it doesnt. When all stars go nova or become black holes, then the black holes will eat each other and there will be a new singularity, although it doesnt ahve to be in the center as you would envision during the big-crunch scenario. this theory assumes black holes last forever, but Hawking Radiation plays some part in denouncing that, it is still an unknown to Humanity.