Combat

BerettaBeretta Join Date: 2003-08-16 Member: 19794Members
in NS General Discussion
<div class="IPBDescription">Why it doesn't work very well.</div> Ok, this is a discussion, no getting moody please.

Personally I think CO is fudged <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> not imbalanced as such, just fudged

This is why:
At the moment the start of the game is not much fun for skulks and the late game is not much fun for humans.

Most marine wins happen very early on or with just a couple of good jpers taking down the hive, this is no fun for aliens.

However most alien wins happen late game, marines teched up with hmgs and aliens slowly levelling up and then onos rushing.

Other problems:

Re-evolving of lifeforms!! Means aliens can adapt to any strategy the marines play, lets say all marine get HA, all aliens go onos. All marines get jp, all aliens onos or fade.

The onos, in NS mode, granted, its underpowered, but in co its just too good, carapace redemption regen onos is just, well, stupid I mean, a full team of redemption cara regen onos, thats only lvl 7, can EASILY win the game for aliens.

REDEMPTION!! It's not so much that it is that great an upgrade, but it's got to be the most bloody dishonourable thing in co, its so cheap.

Focus, yeah I hate focus too, its fine in ns, but I hate it in CO

Jetpack > HA!! HA is, well, useless. HA takes 4 levels to get, and so does onos, lets say 6 levels with a lvl 1 sg whereas onos already has stomp and regen now so the HA is useless. Jetpack is so much better than HA now, mainly because people always faded anyway, but now if marine get a lot of HA they can die and re evolve to onos.


What can be done?

I think the dev team have been a bit lazy when it comes to balancing personally (no offence intended) They are trying to balance 2 completely different game modes at the same time, this can not and will not work.

Stop re-evolving of aliens, it just counters HA so much <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->

Tbh I don't care if you flame me, because as far as im concerned Im right. Flaming me wont help your case.
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Comments

  • JikxJikx Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3563Members
    Personally I think the devs should just leave co alone and concentrate purely on classic .. I recon most people play CO for a quick fix anyway.
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  • TOmekkiTOmekki Join Date: 2003-11-25 Member: 23524Members
    the trick is not to let skulks kill you too much <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> or anyone else for that matter...
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  • ServilcatServilcat Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 4897Members
    Your right, but what can you do? Combat is simply flawed.
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  • nAAbjnAAbj Join Date: 2004-08-31 Member: 31108Members, Constellation
    i think hes right, late games are almost always a loss for the marines since the
    combination of webbing gorgs and onos is unbeatable, even for jp's.

    though i do think early co doesnt rely on what team you're in, just on how offensive you play.
    i.e. when you join a random co_public server, go rines, and just rush into the hive blindly you can be sure you'll get killed, same is most likely to happen to aliens.
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  • SneaKandSeeKSneaKandSeeK Join Date: 2004-02-12 Member: 26454Members
    I think it works as the combat time limit in combat, the marines got to get the hive down before every (or at least most) of the aliens get high levels.
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  • BerettaBeretta Join Date: 2003-08-16 Member: 19794Members
    edited November 2004
    Tomekki thanks for the useful and informative post,

    Please <span style='color:orange'>dodge this</span> from my topic if your going to make such stupid posts.
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  • NGENGE Join Date: 2003-11-10 Member: 22443Members
    I win 90% of the combat games I play in. I hate to sound arrogant, but if I lose it's usually because my team can't pull their weight. If I run off alone, I end up usually making it to the hive room with 2-3 levels, and starting a spawn camp. ("hive" is interchangable with CC)

    The aliens WILL win a late game. They have no chance early on for a victory unless the rine team completly stinks.


    Alien players need to learn to heal often, and rine players need to learn to rush but effeciently. It's simply the way people try to play that ends up with fade/onos SPAM vs turtleing rines, which is no fun for anyone.


    Btw- I'll take HA if I know I'm going to face a good fade- that jp just makes me die mid air rather than on the ground.
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  • mirrodinmirrodin Join Date: 2004-06-29 Member: 29621Members
    When you compress anything you lose some stuff. This happens with files (well, not lossless PNGs, but NS isn't a PNG file) sound (: /) and memos to your boss. Co_ is quick Ns_ it's fun, hell ya, but it has lost something in the compression.
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  • exileSoulexileSoul Join Date: 2004-07-04 Member: 29716Members
    so ur suggesting wave spawn of lerks, onos, and fades? gg marines
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  • PheusPheus Join Date: 2003-01-30 Member: 12924Members
    gg marines indeed. Yeah, if you do manage to actually kill a cara celerity onos, then pretty much the only hope you have of a marine win is to kill him while he's egging back to onos.
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  • BerettaBeretta Join Date: 2003-08-16 Member: 19794Members
    so exile the current system is fine by you? Or is nitpicking something you find exciting?

    Wave spawn of onos, ok yes that could be a problem, hmm easily fixed though. Aliens spawn as eggs to their previous class? Let me guess, gg aliens now?
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  • ChurchChurch Meatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2 Join Date: 2002-12-31 Member: 11646Members, Constellation
    I think that if you egg within say...5 seconds of spawning, your egg should be invincible. I agree that higher lifeforms need a penalty when they die so they can't be back in the action immedately, but I hate being killed while trying to egg in combat.
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  • GruntGrunt Join Date: 2004-09-03 Member: 31245Members
    Most combat maps are to small for an alien to evolve.

    Classic, there are a few things Marines have to overcome to actually get to an alien evolving:

    Finding the hive.
    Building structures and RTs.
    Overcome aline chambers.

    So in classic, a marine would first stat out at his base for a few seconds, building things, then spend a minute or two building RTs. Then if he find the hive, he will probaly have to break though a few OCs. And all the time the hive-mind is saying "structure is under attack" letting the alien know something is comming.

    Classic however, marine runs for about 15 second to hive room, shoots alien/egg/hive. Repeats.
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  • Diablo_fxDiablo_fx Join Date: 2003-02-21 Member: 13793Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Grunt+Nov 5 2004, 05:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Grunt @ Nov 5 2004, 05:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Most combat maps are to small for an alien to evolve.

    Classic, there are a few things Marines have to overcome to actually get to an alien evolving:

    Finding the hive.
    Building structures and RTs.
    Overcome aline chambers.

    So in classic, a marine would first stat out at his base for a few seconds, building things, then spend a minute or two building RTs. Then if he find the hive, he will probaly have to break though a few OCs. And all the time the hive-mind is saying "structure is under attack" letting the alien know something is comming.

    Classic however, marine runs for about 15 second to hive room, shoots alien/egg/hive. Repeats. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    A good rambo will be in the hive under 1 minute.
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  • RiotingNerdRiotingNerd Join Date: 2003-09-15 Member: 20896Members
    Assuming a 10 minute time limit, there is little wrong with combat. Once the game goes past 10 minutes, balance goes out the window, and the game becomes an endless stalemate.
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  • Trent_HawkinsTrent_Hawkins Join Date: 2003-03-25 Member: 14875Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-RiotingNerd+Nov 17 2004, 03:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RiotingNerd @ Nov 17 2004, 03:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Assuming a 10 minute time limit, there is little wrong with combat. Once the game goes past 10 minutes, balance goes out the window, and the game becomes an endless stalemate. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Actually, the endless stalemate is what I enjoy in NS. It's the situations where you KNOW you're going to loose, but you're stuck waiting for it to finally happen that I hate.

    The only thing I dislike in Combat right now is not specifically the spawning as a skulk, but one of the situations that occurs as a result. You spawn in, and before you have a chance to react, KABOOM! in the queue again.
    I'm not specifically talking about spawncamping either; if someone sees me spawn, aims and pumps me full of lead, he should get the kill.... but when someone just lobbs a grenade, buggers off, you spawn and die before you can move a step... I get annoyed.
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