No matter how good the player is, most rely on sound and being totally silent as a skulk is much greater than being fast. This is before they get motion.
Alot of people dont even notice they have been bit untill the second bite.
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Nov 6 2004, 04:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Nov 6 2004, 04:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You guys can make up your stupid scenerio's but the fact is I've never lost a marine round against movements. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Good thing some of us live in a part of the world where people actually try to make other possibilities work. And you know what, some of use have made them with good results! WHOAH! Isnt it amazing !
<a href='http://www.modns.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=1099' target='_blank'>http://www.modns.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=1099</a> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Nice...is that with escelating (increasing) rescost for each upgrade that you chose to have?
Y'know, come to think about it, escalating upgrade costs seems like a better way to go, rather than hard limits based on number of hives. However, without some sort of exponentially-increasing cost, it seems like aliens could get out of control fast. Cara/regen/focus/celery fades? Eep.
For instance (this is going to be a lot of math. Before commenting, please understand what the math does), here's a new system that limits aliens only by res. Chambers are completely unchained.
All upgrades cost 2 res. This is modified as follows:
x3 for each upgrade from a different chamber already possessed x6 for each upgrade from the same chamber already possessed /2 if the alien team controls a number of chambers of that type >= sqrt(alien_players)*2.5 (for instance, 8 chambers required for a team of nine)
x2 if alien is lerk x3 if alien is fade x5 if alien is onos
Now for the part that replicates the hive rules in effect now: All of these multipliers are reduced by -1 for every hive past the first that the aliens control.
Some examples will illustrate how this goes:
A 1-hive skulk can get celerity for 2 points. If he also wants carapace, that will cost him 2x3 = 6 more res -- probably not worth it. If he instead wants silence, that'll incur the same-chamber penalty and cost a whopping 2x6=12 res. Getting focus after having already grabbed cara and silence would cost 2x3x3=18 res.
A 1-hive fade, on the other hand, would wind up paying 6 res for regeneration -- worth it, no doubt, but not trivial. Adding focus is prohibitive, at 18 res.
A 2-hive skulk, however, is better off. He can get celerity for 2 res. If he then wants carapace, that will cost him 2x2 = 4 res; adding focus to the mix would cost him 2x2x2 = 8 res. Is 14 total res worth having a triple-upgraded skulk at hive 2? I don't know. I doubt you'd see many people opt for that last 8 res upgrade, though.
A 2-hive fade would now pay 2x2 = 4 res for the first upgrade, and 2x2x2 = 8 res for the second.
A 2-hive onos would wind up paying twice as much as a fade: 8 for the first upgrade, and 16 for the second.
At 3 hives, all hell breaks loose. There is no longer a penalty for stacking across chambers or being a fade, and the same-chamber penalty is down to x4. Regen/celery/cara oni are no longer out of the question.
***
I think a system like this would add flexibility to NS by allowing some bending of the hive limits in extreme circumstances. That 1-hive lork-on-the-clorf could, if he so chooses, get regeneration and scent of fear, but it's going to cost him: 4 for the first (not too bad), and 12 for the second. For that price he could have gone fade instead.
This system would put upgrading decisions back into the hands of the players rather than the gorge, and allow for greater flexibility without the artificial-seeming hive limits that still exist on unchained servers. It would also shorten marine start sieges, as 3-hive aliens who own all the RT's could stack an obscene number of upgrades and rush MS with celery/adrenal/regen/cara oni.
At least aliens with tons of upgrades will have to pay a LOT for it...
And the chance for an onos with 9 upgrads is virtually none anyway...unless the game's really locked down for hours with the khaara controlling the map anyway...
This idea WOULD also practically end marine turtling...they'd have no chance in beating fully upgraded lifeforms (9-upgrades khaara)...
Think about it this way too:
If a player decides to lame and try going for all 9 upgrades, it will mean unless that player is an ace players, he will most likely do ambush tactics and so on, instead of assaults...
Assaulting will potentially give more res, ASSUMING that the alien can stay alive <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> On the other hand that player will also be bigger benefit to the alien team (more active etc)
Thus IMO, having the option of being able to get all 9 upgrades (with an escelating cost depending on number of upgrades/what lifeform you are) is VERY fair for the khaara...the longer they stay alive the further they can "evolve"...this IS how the khaara should be too...
If a khaara dies, then they have to start over...early upgrades being cheap, but latter one much more expensive and harder to get, not to mention any higher lifeform costs attached...
To compensate for this idea however, the cost for lifeforms should go up a bit...
Onos specially should perhaps cost 80 res instead of 60...
But this is definately something that I'd want to see in the next version...
It has been brought up before but, I think making Regen a basic ability for all aliens is the way to go, then replace the Defence Chamber's regen ability with something like "resist grenades" and we would be set. I don't think this would unbalance the game at all. Most of the time that regen helps you is after a fight when you hide to get back your health.
By "resist grenade" I mean resist, not immune, just something to help skulks survive at the edge of an explosion, but any other idea is just as good for a replacement.
My opinion is that devs think that ns now in near "optimum"-balance and they don't want to try to change things. I hope that there would be more courage to try new ideas and change for example chamber properties more.
This game is still in beta phase so devs could still change things (a lot) and test it in public and try again to get game better.
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Nov 6 2004, 03:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Nov 6 2004, 03:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You guys can make up your stupid scenerio's but the fact is I've never lost a marine round against movements.
You have so many counters against it, electricity, MT, and GOOD AIM
Hint:
<span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>GOOD AIM BEATS FAST ALIENS</span>
Just because
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Celerity doesnt only make the lerk go quicker, it makes it almost unhittable. We all know of the HL netcode and lagging hitboxes, right? Now apply that knowledge on a rocket. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you can't aim, doesn't mean others can't. I've solo'ed celerity lerks before with my LMG. It depends on the size of the room and they can't stop a full force of marines, there is no way. If there is a high ceiling killing the lerk will be a ****, but otherwise it's not gonna be too much of a threat. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Coincidently, the same day forlorn writes this, he loses to a movement first strat.
Still, one good (read: reflex) blast with a shotty makes the lerk go bye-bye.
<!--QuoteBegin-rennex+Nov 12 2004, 03:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (rennex @ Nov 12 2004, 03:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Nov 6 2004, 03:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Nov 6 2004, 03:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You guys can make up your stupid scenerio's but the fact is I've never lost a marine round against movements.
You have so many counters against it, electricity, MT, and GOOD AIM
Hint:
<span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>GOOD AIM BEATS FAST ALIENS</span>
Just because
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Celerity doesnt only make the lerk go quicker, it makes it almost unhittable. We all know of the HL netcode and lagging hitboxes, right? Now apply that knowledge on a rocket. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you can't aim, doesn't mean others can't. I've solo'ed celerity lerks before with my LMG. It depends on the size of the room and they can't stop a full force of marines, there is no way. If there is a high ceiling killing the lerk will be a ****, but otherwise it's not gonna be too much of a threat. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Coincidently, the same day forlorn writes this, he loses to a movement first strat.
Still, one good (read: reflex) blast with a shotty makes the lerk go bye-bye. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Commander wouldn't give out any shotguns, he's got like over 100 res and is cheap as an old man, give me a break...
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Nov 12 2004, 03:23 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Nov 12 2004, 03:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Commander wouldn't give out any shotguns, he's got like over 100 res and is cheap as an old man, give me a break... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> are you complaining?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You guys can make up your stupid scenerio's but the fact is I've never lost a marine round against movements.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
Inane abbreviations work, well done.
Alot of people dont even notice they have been bit untill the second bite.
You've also been knifed as a DC fade, what's your point?
Maybe removing eletrecity from NS would make a nicer addition than any other, bringing back the ns1.04 feel
a lockdown with phase and electrified is surely a GG marines with SC and MV on first chamber.
btw, we could remove eletrify from TFs only, leaving electrify only for Res Nodes, opening a small window to fades to unlock a hive
how about this way ? it way name is unchain upgrade
I made this amx plugin
<img src='http://www.narics.net/bulletin/data/b_modns/1100196601/ns_origin0000.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
I think unchain upgrade can break DMS tech build
<a href='http://www.modns.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=1099' target='_blank'>http://www.modns.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=1099</a>
Good thing some of us live in a part of the world where people actually try to make other possibilities work. And you know what, some of use have made them with good results! WHOAH! Isnt it amazing !
how about this way ? it way name is unchain upgrade
I made this amx plugin
<img src='http://www.narics.net/bulletin/data/b_modns/1100196601/ns_origin0000.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
I think unchain upgrade can break DMS tech build
<a href='http://www.modns.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=1099' target='_blank'>http://www.modns.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=1099</a> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nice...is that with escelating (increasing) rescost for each upgrade that you chose to have?
For instance (this is going to be a lot of math. Before commenting, please understand what the math does), here's a new system that limits aliens only by res. Chambers are completely unchained.
All upgrades cost 2 res. This is modified as follows:
x3 for each upgrade from a different chamber already possessed
x6 for each upgrade from the same chamber already possessed
/2 if the alien team controls a number of chambers of that type >= sqrt(alien_players)*2.5 (for instance, 8 chambers required for a team of nine)
x2 if alien is lerk
x3 if alien is fade
x5 if alien is onos
Now for the part that replicates the hive rules in effect now: All of these multipliers are reduced by -1 for every hive past the first that the aliens control.
Some examples will illustrate how this goes:
A 1-hive skulk can get celerity for 2 points. If he also wants carapace, that will cost him 2x3 = 6 more res -- probably not worth it. If he instead wants silence, that'll incur the same-chamber penalty and cost a whopping 2x6=12 res. Getting focus after having already grabbed cara and silence would cost 2x3x3=18 res.
A 1-hive fade, on the other hand, would wind up paying 6 res for regeneration -- worth it, no doubt, but not trivial. Adding focus is prohibitive, at 18 res.
A 2-hive skulk, however, is better off. He can get celerity for 2 res. If he then wants carapace, that will cost him 2x2 = 4 res; adding focus to the mix would cost him 2x2x2 = 8 res. Is 14 total res worth having a triple-upgraded skulk at hive 2? I don't know. I doubt you'd see many people opt for that last 8 res upgrade, though.
A 2-hive fade would now pay 2x2 = 4 res for the first upgrade, and 2x2x2 = 8 res for the second.
A 2-hive onos would wind up paying twice as much as a fade: 8 for the first upgrade, and 16 for the second.
At 3 hives, all hell breaks loose. There is no longer a penalty for stacking across chambers or being a fade, and the same-chamber penalty is down to x4. Regen/celery/cara oni are no longer out of the question.
***
I think a system like this would add flexibility to NS by allowing some bending of the hive limits in extreme circumstances. That 1-hive lork-on-the-clorf could, if he so chooses, get regeneration and scent of fear, but it's going to cost him: 4 for the first (not too bad), and 12 for the second. For that price he could have gone fade instead.
This system would put upgrading decisions back into the hands of the players rather than the gorge, and allow for greater flexibility without the artificial-seeming hive limits that still exist on unchained servers. It would also shorten marine start sieges, as 3-hive aliens who own all the RT's could stack an obscene number of upgrades and rush MS with celery/adrenal/regen/cara oni.
At least aliens with tons of upgrades will have to pay a LOT for it...
And the chance for an onos with 9 upgrads is virtually none anyway...unless the game's really locked down for hours with the khaara controlling the map anyway...
This idea WOULD also practically end marine turtling...they'd have no chance in beating fully upgraded lifeforms (9-upgrades khaara)...
Think about it this way too:
If a player decides to lame and try going for all 9 upgrades, it will mean unless that player is an ace players, he will most likely do ambush tactics and so on, instead of assaults...
Assaulting will potentially give more res, ASSUMING that the alien can stay alive <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
On the other hand that player will also be bigger benefit to the alien team (more active etc)
Thus IMO, having the option of being able to get all 9 upgrades (with an escelating cost depending on number of upgrades/what lifeform you are) is VERY fair for the khaara...the longer they stay alive the further they can "evolve"...this IS how the khaara should be too...
If a khaara dies, then they have to start over...early upgrades being cheap, but latter one much more expensive and harder to get, not to mention any higher lifeform costs attached...
To compensate for this idea however, the cost for lifeforms should go up a bit...
Onos specially should perhaps cost 80 res instead of 60...
But this is definately something that I'd want to see in the next version...
it check only that how many user has upgrade.
This is skulk's upgrade cost list
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
case 0 : eret = 1
case 1 : eret = 2
case 2 : eret = 4
case 3 : eret = 6
case 4 : eret = 8
case 5 : eret = 10
case 6 : eret = 12
case 7 : eret = 14
case 8 : eret = 16
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If skulk hasn't any upgrade then he can pay 1 resource for first upgrade
but skulk has 8 upgrade then he does pay 16 resource for upgrade.
High lifefrom unit pay more resouce than low lifeform
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
case 0 : eret = 2
case 1 : eret = 20
case 2 : eret = 30
case 3 : eret = 40
case 4 : eret = 60
case 5 : eret = 70
case 6 : eret = 80
case 7 : eret = 90
case 8 : eret = 100
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
it is fade's upgrade cost list
1 st upgrade same default, but 2 st and after upgrade very expensive.
running test server combine Addrespawn plugin at Korea
ip - 222.112.64.20:27015
By "resist grenade" I mean resist, not immune, just something to help skulks survive at the edge of an explosion, but any other idea is just as good for a replacement.
This game is still in beta phase so devs could still change things (a lot) and test it in public and try again to get game better.
You have so many counters against it, electricity, MT, and GOOD AIM
Hint:
<span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>GOOD AIM BEATS FAST ALIENS</span>
Just because
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Celerity doesnt only make the lerk go quicker, it makes it almost unhittable. We all know of the HL netcode and lagging hitboxes, right? Now apply that knowledge on a rocket.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you can't aim, doesn't mean others can't. I've solo'ed celerity lerks before with my LMG. It depends on the size of the room and they can't stop a full force of marines, there is no way. If there is a high ceiling killing the lerk will be a ****, but otherwise it's not gonna be too much of a threat. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Coincidently, the same day forlorn writes this, he loses to a movement first strat.
Still, one good (read: reflex) blast with a shotty makes the lerk go bye-bye.
You have so many counters against it, electricity, MT, and GOOD AIM
Hint:
<span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>GOOD AIM BEATS FAST ALIENS</span>
Just because
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Celerity doesnt only make the lerk go quicker, it makes it almost unhittable. We all know of the HL netcode and lagging hitboxes, right? Now apply that knowledge on a rocket.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you can't aim, doesn't mean others can't. I've solo'ed celerity lerks before with my LMG. It depends on the size of the room and they can't stop a full force of marines, there is no way. If there is a high ceiling killing the lerk will be a ****, but otherwise it's not gonna be too much of a threat. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Coincidently, the same day forlorn writes this, he loses to a movement first strat.
Still, one good (read: reflex) blast with a shotty makes the lerk go bye-bye. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Commander wouldn't give out any shotguns, he's got like over 100 res and is cheap as an old man, give me a break...
Commander wouldn't give out any shotguns, he's got like over 100 res and is cheap as an old man, give me a break... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
are you complaining?
Hey psst, ns_nothing.