<!--QuoteBegin-moultano+Nov 5 2004, 01:00 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ Nov 5 2004, 01:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Awww come on guys, can't you just chuckle a little?
<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <--- TURN THAT FROWN UPSIDE DOWN!! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Attitudes and responses like that one (The IQ chart) are what lost the Democrats the election in the first place.
Keep making fun of rural America. It really makes them want to vote for you.
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
<!--QuoteBegin-SkulkBait+Nov 5 2004, 02:09 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SkulkBait @ Nov 5 2004, 02:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Christ you guys. Its a friggen joke. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah seriously. I wouldn't have posted it if I knew how serious everyone would take it. Relax folks, take your insecurities out on somebody else. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-The Finch+Nov 3 2004, 05:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (The Finch @ Nov 3 2004, 05:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Having "It's the end of the world" by REM stuck in my head for the next four years.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hahahaha!
What do I have to look forward to? I get to post this image :o.
I can't find the statistic but isn't it well known that as you increase the level of education a person has, the more likely they are to become republican?
Sorta goes against dumb people voting for bush, perhaps bush had smarter people to brainwash the masses
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Nov 5 2004, 08:42 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Nov 5 2004, 08:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I can't find the statistic but isn't it well known that as you increase the level of education a person has, the more likely they are to become republican?
Sorta goes against dumb people voting for bush, perhaps bush had smarter people to brainwash the masses <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I thought it was exactly the opposite. Conservatives typically explained it as liberal bias in the educational system. I'll see if I can find something concrete. (Or we could ignore this whole debate cause its kinda stupid)
<!--QuoteBegin-moultano+Nov 5 2004, 09:30 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ Nov 5 2004, 09:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Nov 5 2004, 08:42 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Nov 5 2004, 08:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I can't find the statistic but isn't it well known that as you increase the level of education a person has, the more likely they are to become republican?
Sorta goes against dumb people voting for bush, perhaps bush had smarter people to brainwash the masses <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I thought it was exactly the opposite. Conservatives typically explained it as liberal bias in the educational system. I'll see if I can find something concrete. (Or we could ignore this whole debate cause its kinda stupid) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> There really is nothing you can confer from such statistics.
As it stands:
<!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1--> Bush Kerry No High School (4%) 49% 50%
No HS : Kerry HS grad : Bush Some College: Bush College Grad : Bush Postgrad : Kerry
So Kerry seems to hold the Highly educated and the uneducated while bush holds the middle. Just remember that education is no indicator of intelligence.
That may be a bit of an anomaly. All research I've done on the topic shows conservatism following that bell-curve, not liberalism. Not like it matters.
I hope and pray that Clinton doesn't make a run for POTUS in '08. The woman is evil incarnate.
<!--QuoteBegin-Legionnaired+Nov 5 2004, 12:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Legionnaired @ Nov 5 2004, 12:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> That may be a bit of an anomaly. All research I've done on the topic shows conservatism following that bell-curve, not liberalism. Not like it matters.
I hope and pray that Clinton doesn't make a run for POTUS in '08. The woman is evil incarnate. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It would be a terrible move by the democrats. If Kerry had a difficult time, I would imagine Hillary would fly like a lead balloon.
<!--QuoteBegin-moultano+Nov 5 2004, 12:23 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ Nov 5 2004, 12:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> What is the nature of people's dislike of Hillary Clinton? It seems pretty widespread, but I've never been able to get at the nature of it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Her biggest mistake was pushing for a national healthcare system. I find her to be dishonest and slimy. She gives me the feeling that she could change her statements to better suit her political career(gut reaction).
Logical reaction?
The carpetbagging for NY. How did she instantly become 'New York woman' when there was a senate seat that she felt she could win? I felt that her campaign was dishonest as it used the massive democrat population of NYC as a crudgel to force her way into the senate seat while ignoring the rest of New York.
It is one of my largest complaints about the democratic party. They use urban centers to get massive amounts of votes and completely ignore the rural parts of the state. Pennsylvania and NY are prime examples as large portions of the state are rural. Many of these people would support the democrat party if the democrats did not do everything in their power to alienate them. There are people who live outside the city limits.
It seems that both sides of the political spectrum are saying that they have the most educated people. All I have is anecdotal evidence that says that every single prof. I've had that has even slightly hinted at politics at all, a button on a backpack, a sticker on a waterbottle, etc. has been a liberal. It's also pretty widely accepted that acedemics as a whole are more liberal than the rest of the United States. Seeing as how Prof.'s are supposed to be some of the most educated people in the US, this gives more credit to the Liberals being more educated, and not the other way around.
KungFuSquirrelBasher of MuttonsJoin Date: 2002-01-26Member: 103Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
<!--QuoteBegin-wizard@psu+Nov 5 2004, 12:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (wizard@psu @ Nov 5 2004, 12:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The carpetbagging for NY. How did she instantly become 'New York woman' when there was a senate seat that she felt she could win? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm not particularly a fan of Hilary Clinton, but I'm curious what you think of Alan Keyes after his similar move for the republican party in Illinois. Do you consider the circumstances different, or do you not like him either, or...?
*shrug* Just wondering. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Frikk+Nov 5 2004, 02:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Frikk @ Nov 5 2004, 02:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It seems that both sides of the political spectrum are saying that they have the most educated people. All I have is anecdotal evidence that says that every single prof. I've had that has even slightly hinted at politics at all, a button on a backpack, a sticker on a waterbottle, etc. has been a liberal. It's also pretty widely accepted that acedemics as a whole are more liberal than the rest of the United States. Seeing as how Prof.'s are supposed to be some of the most educated people in the US, this gives more credit to the Liberals being more educated, and not the other way around. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> But are there more educated liberals or are liberals more educated?
The arguement behind education really doesn't hold water. Otherwise we should just have a congress of universities decide our laws for us.
coilAmateur pirate. Professional monkey. All pance.Join Date: 2002-04-12Member: 424Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
I agree that Democrats have lost the heartland of America... it's something we need to figure out how to fix. As for education and partisanship... I'd contend that as education increases so does liberalism, BUT as wealth increases so does conservativism. Since well-educated people often have well-paying jobs, their allegiance is a toss-up.
Al Franken wrote a one-act political commentary play called "the Waitress and the Lawyer." It was a late-night diner conversation between two very similar women; similar except that one was a high-powered, white, wall-street lawyer and the other a hard-working, black, diner waitress. Over the course of the conversation, the lawyer corrects many of the black woman's incorrect assumptions about Bush's tax cuts and credits, education programs, etc. But at the end of the conversation when the waitress says "Wow, you must really hate George Bush, huh?" the lawyer responds, "no, I love him! I'm getting all kinds of tax breaks..." etc. Obviously a partisan portrayal of the situation, but it speaks to my comment above - with wealth comes the desire to hold on to it.
<!--QuoteBegin-KungFuSquirrel+Nov 5 2004, 03:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (KungFuSquirrel @ Nov 5 2004, 03:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-wizard@psu+Nov 5 2004, 12:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (wizard@psu @ Nov 5 2004, 12:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The carpetbagging for NY. How did she instantly become 'New York woman' when there was a senate seat that she felt she could win? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm not particularly a fan of Hilary Clinton, but I'm curious what you think of Alan Keyes after his similar move for the republican party in Illinois. Do you consider the circumstances different, or do you not like him either, or...?
*shrug* Just wondering. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I thought it was a completely idiotic maneuver to position Keyes as the alternative to Obama.
I am quite sure that if they looked hard enough they could find an even more suitable candidate to counter Obama. Keyes was likely picked because of his high profile status which would garner him more attention. This was a bad move in my opinion as it gave more attention to Obama than he normally would have received.
No one should ever run for a seat uncontested or unchallenged. However, in this case, keyes was not the appropriate choice.
<!--QuoteBegin-coil+Nov 5 2004, 03:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (coil @ Nov 5 2004, 03:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I agree that Democrats have lost the heartland of America... it's something we need to figure out how to fix. As for education and partisanship... I'd contend that as education increases so does liberalism, BUT as wealth increases so does conservativism. Since well-educated people often have well-paying jobs, their allegiance is a toss-up.
Al Franken wrote a one-act political commentary play called "the Waitress and the Lawyer." It was a late-night diner conversation between two very similar women; similar except that one was a high-powered, white, wall-street lawyer and the other a hard-working, black, diner waitress. Over the course of the conversation, the lawyer corrects many of the black woman's incorrect assumptions about Bush's tax cuts and credits, education programs, etc. But at the end of the conversation when the waitress says "Wow, you must really hate George Bush, huh?" the lawyer responds, "no, I love him! I'm getting all kinds of tax breaks..." etc. Obviously a partisan portrayal of the situation, but it speaks to my comment above - with wealth comes the desire to hold on to it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Hahahahaha
If anything the laywer should be defending Bush, not explaining to the woman why to hate him!
<!--QuoteBegin-wizard@psu+Nov 5 2004, 11:27 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (wizard@psu @ Nov 5 2004, 11:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-moultano+Nov 5 2004, 09:30 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ Nov 5 2004, 09:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Nov 5 2004, 08:42 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Nov 5 2004, 08:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I can't find the statistic but isn't it well known that as you increase the level of education a person has, the more likely they are to become republican?
Sorta goes against dumb people voting for bush, perhaps bush had smarter people to brainwash the masses <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I thought it was exactly the opposite. Conservatives typically explained it as liberal bias in the educational system. I'll see if I can find something concrete. (Or we could ignore this whole debate cause its kinda stupid) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> There really is nothing you can confer from such statistics.
As it stands:
<!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1--> Bush Kerry No High School (4%) 49% 50%
No HS : Kerry HS grad : Bush Some College: Bush College Grad : Bush Postgrad : Kerry
So Kerry seems to hold the Highly educated and the uneducated while bush holds the middle. Just remember that education is no indicator of intelligence. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No these do not count. These are exit polls.
Click and learn people. Bathroom monkey, a very liberal member of these boards discovered to me and all of us that more education = more republican.
Too bad that's only a graph of 1994, I spent 10 min trying to find some 2000 graphs, but to no sucess. They should shoot whoever designed the census's website.
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Nov 5 2004, 02:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Nov 5 2004, 02:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-coil+Nov 5 2004, 03:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (coil @ Nov 5 2004, 03:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I agree that Democrats have lost the heartland of America... it's something we need to figure out how to fix. As for education and partisanship... I'd contend that as education increases so does liberalism, BUT as wealth increases so does conservativism. Since well-educated people often have well-paying jobs, their allegiance is a toss-up.
Al Franken wrote a one-act political commentary play called "the Waitress and the Lawyer." It was a late-night diner conversation between two very similar women; similar except that one was a high-powered, white, wall-street lawyer and the other a hard-working, black, diner waitress. Over the course of the conversation, the lawyer corrects many of the black woman's incorrect assumptions about Bush's tax cuts and credits, education programs, etc. But at the end of the conversation when the waitress says "Wow, you must really hate George Bush, huh?" the lawyer responds, "no, I love him! I'm getting all kinds of tax breaks..." etc. Obviously a partisan portrayal of the situation, but it speaks to my comment above - with wealth comes the desire to hold on to it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hahahahaha
If anything the laywer should be defending Bush, not explaining to the woman why to hate him! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Forlorn whats more important, educating people of the facts or telling them lies to them so they are on your side? What Al Franken wrote was more than just a political commentary, it was an example of what everyone in the world should do. Even though you might disagree with someones opinion its best, when educating someone, to give them all sides of the story so they can draw their own conclusions and make their own decisions.
I would like to say that doing so is undemocratic, but I can't because I haven't seen both sides of the story. If someone a time when telling someone a half truth is better then giving them the entire story I'll be happy to change my position.
<!--QuoteBegin-wizard@psu+Nov 5 2004, 08:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (wizard@psu @ Nov 5 2004, 08:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Frikk+Nov 5 2004, 02:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Frikk @ Nov 5 2004, 02:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It seems that both sides of the political spectrum are saying that they have the most educated people. All I have is anecdotal evidence that says that every single prof. I've had that has even slightly hinted at politics at all, a button on a backpack, a sticker on a waterbottle, etc. has been a liberal. It's also pretty widely accepted that acedemics as a whole are more liberal than the rest of the United States. Seeing as how Prof.'s are supposed to be some of the most educated people in the US, this gives more credit to the Liberals being more educated, and not the other way around. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> But are there more educated liberals or are liberals more educated?
The arguement behind education really doesn't hold water. Otherwise we should just have a congress of universities decide our laws for us. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'd have no problem with that. In fact, that's nearly an ideal situation for me. Why wouldn't you want the people who know the most about a subject to be deciding a course of action? That's like saying the best choice to decide stem cells is a ethicist who only has had high school biology as apposed to a PhD Geneticist.
Of course, this is coming from somebody who has thought that knowledge is the most important thing one can devote one's life to, so I can understand why people would think otherwise.
[edit: I may like education, but man, I just can't spell.]
With all the images floating around on the internet mocking the map of the electoral vote breakdown, (mason-dixon line, jesusland, etc.) I just wanted to post this. We aren't nearly as divided geographically as we sometimes think we are.
So what are the black ones... did they abstain? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Frikk+Nov 6 2004, 11:53 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Frikk @ Nov 6 2004, 11:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'd have no problem with that. In fact, that's nearly an ideal situation for me. Why wouldn't you want the people who know the most about a subject to be deciding a course of action? That's like saying the best choice to decide stem cells is a ethicist who only has had high school biology as apposed to a PhD Geneticist.
Of course, this is coming from somebody who has thought that knowledge is the most important thing one can devote one's life to, so I can understand why people would think otherwise.
[edit: I may like education, but man, I just can't spell.] <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Did you ever see that Simpson's episode where the Mensa society took over - I think that sums up the "educated people know best" fallacy. Ever heard of Ivory Tower syndrome? Is it a coincidence that the biggest proponents of Communism (the greatest example of "nice in theory, devastating in execution" ever) are found in universities? They seem to have absolutely no idea what the real world is like.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Bathroom monkey, a very liberal member of these boards<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>Very</b> liberal? I'm actually a registered independent, and I've voted for both parties in various elections. I definitely tend to lean left, most vocally on social issues. However . . . 'very'? I'd recommend you swing by Cambridge, MA some time and have your scale re-calibrated . . .
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In other words I'm seeing a red country with some cancer spots of blue<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Interesting choice of words. Of course, you're probably referring to some new-fangled form of cancer, which actually <a href='http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxingspending.html' target='_blank'>supports and strengthens its host.</a>
You don't need 50% of the land to win an election, you need 50% of the <i>voting population</i> (and you don't actually need 50%-- 48 or 49 usually does the trick). The reason you see such overwhelming support for Bush is because your map is a binary representation of a system which actually contains 100 possible values. This is incredibly inaccurate relative to the more nuanced reality of our political landscape.
Fortunately, Moultano has provided something which better demonstrates the full spectrum of political support.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Square miles of counties won Bush 2.51 million Kerry 511,700 <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now convert that into <a href='http://www.npg.org/states/state_index.htm' target='_blank'>population density</a>. Let's get the ball rolling with Montana: 5.29 people per square mile. Connecticut? 702.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Population (2003) of counties won Bush 150,9 million Kerry 103.6 million <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Right, but each candidate didn't get 100% of the support in those counties. They got a percentage of the voting population. A slice <i>of a slice</i> of that figure.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Counties won by less than 5 percentage points Bush 162 Kerry 131 <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So Bush held a more narrow lead in more counties? This information seems incomplete without the number of counties won by <b>more</b> than five percentage points for both candidates. What's the source for this information?
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Nov 9 2004, 09:48 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Nov 9 2004, 09:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> In other words I'm seeing a red country with some cancer spots of blue <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Holy polticism batman! You should get <b>banned from life</b> for such crap. Seriously dude what the hell. Wow, are you <i>really</i> that biased and stereotyping Forlorn? Oh wait we already know you are! Ha! You are an excellent example of the kind of person that gives conservatives a bad name. It be quite blissful to be so ignorant and one sided. The world must seem so clearly black&white to you.
Oh an btw, <b>moultano's map is much better as no country is an all-or-nothing as the electoral college would like you to believe</b>. Stop getting all your news from one highly biased source for once.
<!--QuoteBegin-Bathroom Monkey+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bathroom Monkey)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Bathroom monkey, a very liberal member of these boards <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Very liberal? I'm actually a registered independent, and I've voted for both parties in various elections. I definitely tend to lean left, most vocally on social issues. However . . . 'very'? I'd recommend you swing by Cambridge, MA some time and have your scale re-calibrated . . .<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I got to back this guy up. He is not what you would call very liberal. Your scale is indeed off. I'm a neutral. I know this because I have issues with both extremes and when in an evenly balanced crowd I always break even. The only reason Bathroom Monkey seems to be "very" to you is because he is the <i>only</i> liberal active in this discussion forum. It makes it easy to single him out.
Believe it or not most US news is conservatively biased. CNN is one of the few one that is sort of neutral (but still leans to right), but try watching some from the other side. One of the most neutral and objective news sources in the world right now happens to be the BBC. If you want to see an actual equivalent contrast, why don't you watch Al Jazeera? Now that's quite a contrast! Why don't you read the newspapers from areas in Asia. Why don't you talk to some Europeans about the issues? This isn't planet US people, it's planet <i>Earth</i>!!! There are more people who live outside the US. All such comments really sound like "blah blah... I'm blissfully ignorant...blah blah...I hate for Jesus...Liberals are the devil...blah blah...I want everyone to conform to what I believe..." Seriously, do everyone a favor shut up.
the person who did it should include population too... so that more populated counties are brighter and the near-empty counties are near-black, because their color doesn't matter as much...
<!--QuoteBegin-DiscoZombie+Nov 9 2004, 02:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DiscoZombie @ Nov 9 2004, 02:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> the person who did it should include population too... so that more populated counties are brighter and the near-empty counties are near-black, because their color doesn't matter as much... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> hmm yes that'd be wonderful... does this help any? <img src='http://www.cast.uark.edu/local/catalog/national/images/maps/Population.dir/USpop1990.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Comments
<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <--- TURN THAT FROWN UPSIDE DOWN!! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Attitudes and responses like that one (The IQ chart) are what lost the Democrats the election in the first place.
Keep making fun of rural America. It really makes them want to vote for you.
Yeah seriously. I wouldn't have posted it if I knew how serious everyone would take it. Relax folks, take your insecurities out on somebody else. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Hahahaha!
What do I have to look forward to? I get to post this image :o.
<img src='http://www.another-world.org.uk/spacer/dearamerica.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Sorta goes against dumb people voting for bush, perhaps bush had smarter people to brainwash the masses
(I don't think that the average american voter is stupid. This is a disclaimer.)
Sorta goes against dumb people voting for bush, perhaps bush had smarter people to brainwash the masses <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I thought it was exactly the opposite. Conservatives typically explained it as liberal bias in the educational system. I'll see if I can find something concrete. (Or we could ignore this whole debate cause its kinda stupid)
Sorta goes against dumb people voting for bush, perhaps bush had smarter people to brainwash the masses <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I thought it was exactly the opposite. Conservatives typically explained it as liberal bias in the educational system. I'll see if I can find something concrete. (Or we could ignore this whole debate cause its kinda stupid) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There really is nothing you can confer from such statistics.
As it stands:
<!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->
Bush Kerry
No High School (4%) 49% 50%
H.S. Graduate (22%) 52% 47%
Some College (32%) 54% 46%
College Graduate (26%) 52% 46%
Postgrad Study (16%) 44% 55%
<!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
source: <a href='http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.0.html' target='_blank'>http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/res...0/epolls.0.html</a>
So lets look at it:
No HS : Kerry
HS grad : Bush
Some College: Bush
College Grad : Bush
Postgrad : Kerry
So Kerry seems to hold the Highly educated and the uneducated while bush holds the middle. Just remember that education is no indicator of intelligence.
I hope and pray that Clinton doesn't make a run for POTUS in '08. The woman is evil incarnate.
I hope and pray that Clinton doesn't make a run for POTUS in '08. The woman is evil incarnate. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It would be a terrible move by the democrats. If Kerry had a difficult time, I would imagine Hillary would fly like a lead balloon.
Her biggest mistake was pushing for a national healthcare system. I find her to be dishonest and slimy. She gives me the feeling that she could change her statements to better suit her political career(gut reaction).
Logical reaction?
The carpetbagging for NY. How did she instantly become 'New York woman' when there was a senate seat that she felt she could win? I felt that her campaign was dishonest as it used the massive democrat population of NYC as a crudgel to force her way into the senate seat while ignoring the rest of New York.
It is one of my largest complaints about the democratic party. They use urban centers to get massive amounts of votes and completely ignore the rural parts of the state. Pennsylvania and NY are prime examples as large portions of the state are rural. Many of these people would support the democrat party if the democrats did not do everything in their power to alienate them. There are people who live outside the city limits.
I'm not particularly a fan of Hilary Clinton, but I'm curious what you think of Alan Keyes after his similar move for the republican party in Illinois. Do you consider the circumstances different, or do you not like him either, or...?
*shrug* Just wondering. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
But are there more educated liberals or are liberals more educated?
The arguement behind education really doesn't hold water. Otherwise we should just have a congress of universities decide our laws for us.
Al Franken wrote a one-act political commentary play called "the Waitress and the Lawyer." It was a late-night diner conversation between two very similar women; similar except that one was a high-powered, white, wall-street lawyer and the other a hard-working, black, diner waitress. Over the course of the conversation, the lawyer corrects many of the black woman's incorrect assumptions about Bush's tax cuts and credits, education programs, etc. But at the end of the conversation when the waitress says "Wow, you must really hate George Bush, huh?" the lawyer responds, "no, I love him! I'm getting all kinds of tax breaks..." etc. Obviously a partisan portrayal of the situation, but it speaks to my comment above - with wealth comes the desire to hold on to it.
I'm not particularly a fan of Hilary Clinton, but I'm curious what you think of Alan Keyes after his similar move for the republican party in Illinois. Do you consider the circumstances different, or do you not like him either, or...?
*shrug* Just wondering. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I thought it was a completely idiotic maneuver to position Keyes as the alternative to Obama.
I am quite sure that if they looked hard enough they could find an even more suitable candidate to counter Obama. Keyes was likely picked because of his high profile status which would garner him more attention. This was a bad move in my opinion as it gave more attention to Obama than he normally would have received.
No one should ever run for a seat uncontested or unchallenged. However, in this case, keyes was not the appropriate choice.
Al Franken wrote a one-act political commentary play called "the Waitress and the Lawyer." It was a late-night diner conversation between two very similar women; similar except that one was a high-powered, white, wall-street lawyer and the other a hard-working, black, diner waitress. Over the course of the conversation, the lawyer corrects many of the black woman's incorrect assumptions about Bush's tax cuts and credits, education programs, etc. But at the end of the conversation when the waitress says "Wow, you must really hate George Bush, huh?" the lawyer responds, "no, I love him! I'm getting all kinds of tax breaks..." etc. Obviously a partisan portrayal of the situation, but it speaks to my comment above - with wealth comes the desire to hold on to it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hahahahaha
If anything the laywer should be defending Bush, not explaining to the woman why to hate him!
Sorta goes against dumb people voting for bush, perhaps bush had smarter people to brainwash the masses <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I thought it was exactly the opposite. Conservatives typically explained it as liberal bias in the educational system. I'll see if I can find something concrete. (Or we could ignore this whole debate cause its kinda stupid) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There really is nothing you can confer from such statistics.
As it stands:
<!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->
Bush Kerry
No High School (4%) 49% 50%
H.S. Graduate (22%) 52% 47%
Some College (32%) 54% 46%
College Graduate (26%) 52% 46%
Postgrad Study (16%) 44% 55%
<!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
source: <a href='http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.0.html' target='_blank'>http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/res...0/epolls.0.html</a>
So lets look at it:
No HS : Kerry
HS grad : Bush
Some College: Bush
College Grad : Bush
Postgrad : Kerry
So Kerry seems to hold the Highly educated and the uneducated while bush holds the middle. Just remember that education is no indicator of intelligence. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No these do not count. These are exit polls.
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/uploads//post-28-1096919926.gif' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/up...-1096919926.gif</a>
Click and learn people. Bathroom monkey, a very liberal member of these boards discovered to me and all of us that more education = more republican.
Too bad that's only a graph of 1994, I spent 10 min trying to find some 2000 graphs, but to no sucess. They should shoot whoever designed the census's website.
Al Franken wrote a one-act political commentary play called "the Waitress and the Lawyer." It was a late-night diner conversation between two very similar women; similar except that one was a high-powered, white, wall-street lawyer and the other a hard-working, black, diner waitress. Over the course of the conversation, the lawyer corrects many of the black woman's incorrect assumptions about Bush's tax cuts and credits, education programs, etc. But at the end of the conversation when the waitress says "Wow, you must really hate George Bush, huh?" the lawyer responds, "no, I love him! I'm getting all kinds of tax breaks..." etc. Obviously a partisan portrayal of the situation, but it speaks to my comment above - with wealth comes the desire to hold on to it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hahahahaha
If anything the laywer should be defending Bush, not explaining to the woman why to hate him! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Forlorn whats more important, educating people of the facts or telling them lies to them so they are on your side? What Al Franken wrote was more than just a political commentary, it was an example of what everyone in the world should do. Even though you might disagree with someones opinion its best, when educating someone, to give them all sides of the story so they can draw their own conclusions and make their own decisions.
I would like to say that doing so is undemocratic, but I can't because I haven't seen both sides of the story. If someone a time when telling someone a half truth is better then giving them the entire story I'll be happy to change my position.
But are there more educated liberals or are liberals more educated?
The arguement behind education really doesn't hold water. Otherwise we should just have a congress of universities decide our laws for us. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd have no problem with that. In fact, that's nearly an ideal situation for me. Why wouldn't you want the people who know the most about a subject to be deciding a course of action? That's like saying the best choice to decide stem cells is a ethicist who only has had high school biology as apposed to a PhD Geneticist.
Of course, this is coming from somebody who has thought that knowledge is the most important thing one can devote one's life to, so I can understand why people would think otherwise.
[edit: I may like education, but man, I just can't spell.]
With all the images floating around on the internet mocking the map of the electoral vote breakdown, (mason-dixon line, jesusland, etc.) I just wanted to post this. We aren't nearly as divided geographically as we sometimes think we are.
Of course, this is coming from somebody who has thought that knowledge is the most important thing one can devote one's life to, so I can understand why people would think otherwise.
[edit: I may like education, but man, I just can't spell.] <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Did you ever see that Simpson's episode where the Mensa society took over - I think that sums up the "educated people know best" fallacy. Ever heard of Ivory Tower syndrome? Is it a coincidence that the biggest proponents of Communism (the greatest example of "nice in theory, devastating in execution" ever) are found in universities? They seem to have absolutely no idea what the real world is like.
Remember if you get over 50% then the land is yours.
In other words I'm seeing a red country with some cancer spots of blue:
<img src='http://images.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/elections2004/_images/2004countymap3.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Square miles of
counties won
Bush 2.51 million
Kerry 511,700
Population (2003) of
counties won
Bush 150,9 million
Kerry 103.6 million
Counties won by less than 5 percentage points
Bush 162
Kerry 131
<b>Very</b> liberal? I'm actually a registered independent, and I've voted for both parties in various elections. I definitely tend to lean left, most vocally on social issues. However . . . 'very'? I'd recommend you swing by Cambridge, MA some time and have your scale re-calibrated . . .
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In other words I'm seeing a red country with some cancer spots of blue<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Interesting choice of words. Of course, you're probably referring to some new-fangled form of cancer, which actually <a href='http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxingspending.html' target='_blank'>supports and strengthens its host.</a>
You don't need 50% of the land to win an election, you need 50% of the <i>voting population</i> (and you don't actually need 50%-- 48 or 49 usually does the trick). The reason you see such overwhelming support for Bush is because your map is a binary representation of a system which actually contains 100 possible values. This is incredibly inaccurate relative to the more nuanced reality of our political landscape.
Fortunately, Moultano has provided something which better demonstrates the full spectrum of political support.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Square miles of
counties won
Bush 2.51 million
Kerry 511,700
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now convert that into <a href='http://www.npg.org/states/state_index.htm' target='_blank'>population density</a>. Let's get the ball rolling with Montana: 5.29 people per square mile. Connecticut? 702.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Population (2003) of
counties won
Bush 150,9 million
Kerry 103.6 million
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Right, but each candidate didn't get 100% of the support in those counties. They got a percentage of the voting population. A slice <i>of a slice</i> of that figure.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Counties won by less than 5 percentage points
Bush 162
Kerry 131 <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So Bush held a more narrow lead in more counties? This information seems incomplete without the number of counties won by <b>more</b> than five percentage points for both candidates. What's the source for this information?
Holy polticism batman! You should get <b>banned from life</b> for such crap. Seriously dude what the hell. Wow, are you <i>really</i> that biased and stereotyping Forlorn? Oh wait we already know you are! Ha! You are an excellent example of the kind of person that gives conservatives a bad name. It be quite blissful to be so ignorant and one sided. The world must seem so clearly black&white to you.
Oh an btw, <b>moultano's map is much better as no country is an all-or-nothing as the electoral college would like you to believe</b>. Stop getting all your news from one highly biased source for once.
<!--QuoteBegin-Bathroom Monkey+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bathroom Monkey)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Bathroom monkey, a very liberal member of these boards <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Very liberal? I'm actually a registered independent, and I've voted for both parties in various elections. I definitely tend to lean left, most vocally on social issues. However . . . 'very'? I'd recommend you swing by Cambridge, MA some time and have your scale re-calibrated . . .<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I got to back this guy up. He is not what you would call very liberal. Your scale is indeed off. I'm a neutral. I know this because I have issues with both extremes and when in an evenly balanced crowd I always break even. The only reason Bathroom Monkey seems to be "very" to you is because he is the <i>only</i> liberal active in this discussion forum. It makes it easy to single him out.
Believe it or not most US news is conservatively biased. CNN is one of the few one that is sort of neutral (but still leans to right), but try watching some from the other side. One of the most neutral and objective news sources in the world right now happens to be the BBC. If you want to see an actual equivalent contrast, why don't you watch Al Jazeera? Now that's quite a contrast! Why don't you read the newspapers from areas in Asia. Why don't you talk to some Europeans about the issues? This isn't planet US people, it's planet <i>Earth</i>!!! There are more people who live outside the US. All such comments really sound like "blah blah... I'm blissfully ignorant...blah blah...I hate for Jesus...Liberals are the devil...blah blah...I want everyone to conform to what I believe..." Seriously, do everyone a favor shut up.
the person who did it should include population too... so that more populated counties are brighter and the near-empty counties are near-black, because their color doesn't matter as much...
hmm yes that'd be wonderful... does this help any?
<img src='http://www.cast.uark.edu/local/catalog/national/images/maps/Population.dir/USpop1990.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Added raised bumps by population:
<img src='http://www.princeton.edu/~rvdb/JAVA/election2004/Election2004textured.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://www.princeton.edu/~rvdb/JAVA/election2004/darksky.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />