Natural Selection : Looking Forward
Steel_Troll
Join Date: 2004-02-12 Member: 26455Members
Join Date: 2004-02-12 Member: 26455Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Can we increase the Playerbase?</div> I think we need a topic to discuss/get ideas to counteract any decline or stagnation in numbers in NS well before we reach a critical level.Im not saying it is stagnating/ declining, infact its more of an open question.
Now i for one think that Zunni is a God send, if he continues doing his job well, we have it made.I point to his recent work in securing a top spot in the third party mods on the Steam list.If he reaches out to many other websites and communities, then hopefully the numbers will increase.In short, we need a bit more publicity.
I also commend the work of the nsguides who are out there training the Nubs... what i would love to see is their workload being reduced by somehow attacking NS's Weak point, its learning curve.
I think this is underway, with features such as the new improved v 3.0 guide being done by .... the name escapes me, and i can definately see a future in the training map done by Meat_popsicle, i only hope an alien training map is goin to be worked on, and that these training maps are somehow added to the game. Another added feature that is desperately in need of being changed/ redone is the help ingame ie cl_autohelp 1 text. It is horribly outdated.
All in all i am looking forward to a time where Natural Selection spreads to a wider playerbase, as it si a fantastic free game.
Comments? Views?Ideas? Dont be shy <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Now i for one think that Zunni is a God send, if he continues doing his job well, we have it made.I point to his recent work in securing a top spot in the third party mods on the Steam list.If he reaches out to many other websites and communities, then hopefully the numbers will increase.In short, we need a bit more publicity.
I also commend the work of the nsguides who are out there training the Nubs... what i would love to see is their workload being reduced by somehow attacking NS's Weak point, its learning curve.
I think this is underway, with features such as the new improved v 3.0 guide being done by .... the name escapes me, and i can definately see a future in the training map done by Meat_popsicle, i only hope an alien training map is goin to be worked on, and that these training maps are somehow added to the game. Another added feature that is desperately in need of being changed/ redone is the help ingame ie cl_autohelp 1 text. It is horribly outdated.
All in all i am looking forward to a time where Natural Selection spreads to a wider playerbase, as it si a fantastic free game.
Comments? Views?Ideas? Dont be shy <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Comments
With HL2 comming out and more mods comming for that the numbers are not going to rise, if they stay stable NS will be lucky, I used to play 0-5 hours a day now I dont touch NS... Its just not fun anymore. Perhaps the devs will port to source.
It is unfortunate NS was created so late in the life of Halflife, people are moving on...
spreads to a wider playerbase, as it si a fantastic free game.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
News update on the NSguides.
The devs have cut their ties to us. Official no longer.
spreads to a wider playerbase, as it si a fantastic free game.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
News update on the NSguides.
The devs have cut their ties to us. Official no longer. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Any reasons?
Or any other statements?
spreads to a wider playerbase, as it si a fantastic free game.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
News update on the NSguides.
The devs have cut their ties to us. Official no longer. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Any reasons?
Or any other statements? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Apparently you need a website/original manual in order to help new players. <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
spreads to a wider playerbase, as it si a fantastic free game.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
News update on the NSguides.
The devs have cut their ties to us. Official no longer. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Any reasons?
Or any other statements? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Apparently you need a website/original manual in order to help new players. <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Weird we haven't seen Nemesis Zero on this boards for quite some time, is he even there or just operating behind the scenes?
With the current state of public play, I wouldn't count on any dramatic player number increases. In general, most people don't like to get yelled at by a bunch of hardcore nerds who worship the developers and rigidly stick to a very specific gameplay routine.
this is what NS is, in my mind.
DISCLAIMER: I have fun with NS because I'm not new, and know how to defend my tactics/actions in game. I like NS a lot, but the community has issues and the game, obviously, is a work in progress. I simply do not think it is appealing overall in a widespread sense.
With the current state of public play, I wouldn't count on any dramatic player number increases. In general, most people don't like to get yelled at by a bunch of hardcore nerds who worship the developers and rigidly stick to a very specific gameplay routine.
this is what NS is, in my mind.
DISCLAIMER: I have fun with NS because I'm not new, and know how to defend my tactics/actions in game. I like NS a lot, but the community has issues and the game, obviously, is a work in progress. I simply do not think it is appealing overall in a widespread sense. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you might be thinking of another group..
However, the more you play NS, the more you feel the levels seem to be smaller. I dont get it, but when I played the first time I thought the trek from Marine Start to Subsector on ns_veil was a LOOOOOONG way. (When I mean long, I meant "Give me a phase gate or I aint' going")
Now though, after playing the maps, they dont seem so huge anymore. They seem smaller than normal, but if someone made an actual HUGE map, that would be a fun game to play. Have it so that contact with aliens would be impossible for at least a 1 minute or so. (Not EXACTLY 1 minute, but something like a variation in time between finding aliens and such)
Also, maps seem less intricate now. They dont seem like grand space stations or awesome ships. They seem like generic rooms connected by hallways. There is hardly any interaction is levels save for weld points and breakable items. I dont get it. My initial play of NS was grand. I wanted to play it so bad that I went into withdrawl when my friend's CD Key was no longer being accepted. Had to buy Half Life to play NS, so I went out and spent 15 bucks.
how bout we fix the rift between clanners and pubbers first? once that's done, the clan scene would strengthen (because clanners can actually go in pubs w/out reprisals....) and/or the average NSPlayer would get better more quickly (because there would be helpful clanners in public servers.....hopefully)
A united community would probably hold new players in a lot better than a divided one...
I hope you dont expect this to hold true when HL2 is released. The only people that will stick around to play on a 6yr old engine , will be the ones who cant run hl2.
I hope you dont expect this to hold true when HL2 is released. The only people that will stick around to play on a 6yr old engine , will be the ones who cant run hl2. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course you mean if/when NS2 is released. HL2's release doesn't automatically mean the release of NS2. There's that whole....coding business that needs to be done. And balancing, but that part's optional. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I'd really like to see ns_classic get a huge buff in the next beta, which it looks is happening somewhat. By buff, I mean lengthening game time.
When NS was first getting a playerbase, I remember joining in 1.03. I came late to the HL scene, so it was my fourth mp experience. I remember playing with buddies of mine and having a blast. Everything seemed amazing, the gameplay so in depth, so hard, but so satisfying.
The very concept of one game taking 3 hours brought me back to my RTS days, and when mixed with Half Lifeness, I was hooked completely.
Flast forward to today:
-NS looks much better than it ever has.
-A real Deathmatch mode was attached to the game.
-Classic was nerfed to pieces.
-The gameplay is boring.
But yeah, it won't even matter in a few months. Mod teams are going to be in a rush to get a releasable beta out the door to testing left and right, meaning that I will sample mods like a wine taster samples wines. Many people will do the same. Also, there will be a major influx of people playing CS:S.
Unless NS makes the port, this community will dry up. It's inevitable. Of course the dev team is looking to make NS2, whatever that is to be. That will have a community, hopefully as good as this one, but unless that is coming out soon, don't expect to see a major increase in playerbase. You can expect to see a decrease of significant size within 4-5 months of HL2's release.
I hope you dont expect this to hold true when HL2 is released. The only people that will stick around to play on a 6yr old engine , will be the ones who cant run hl2. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course you mean if/when NS2 is released. HL2's release doesn't automatically mean the release of NS2. There's that whole....coding business that needs to be done. And balancing, but that part's optional. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, what I mean is that when HL2 releases, NS will die out when everyone has the ability to play HL2. I seriously doubt NS2 will ever exist.
Its not that fun playing 2v3 ns_eclipse
Look up the Hostile Intent community, see how their community is as the result of 30 people playing the mod.
Simple reason: Look what hapend to CS. You think it's bad people shouting omghax, scriptz etc and then see what'll happen if the popularity shot up at the same rate as it did for CS.
Here's an example. Your a skulk and you get x number of kills to get y number of res. you use cash to go fade, ie get better weapon, all the while trying to get the team to achieve a goal
Thats just like counterstrike, you get x number of kills for y number of cash. use cash to get better weapon, all the whilte trying to help the team achive a goal.
This also works for marines, however, the use cash to get better weapon step is done indirectly through the commander. For people have been playing this game for a long time, dont at times you feel like your just playing a regulard old deathmatch fps, even on classic. Thats why NS feels different, and imo is dying. Because instead of trying to emphasize its unique RTS additions its just turning into another FPS. And if u looked at NS as just an FPS, it is a horribly boring game.
Not just that, but strategies for this game are bland. For aliens, its D-M-S. get fades and second hive or lose. Marines, get pgs to secure hive, drop shotties, tech to either HA or JP. At the very pinnacle of NS skill, all clan matches will follow this method in some form or way, or they cannot compete(exi's sense strats of season 2 doesnt count, since they just won by outclassing every other team in skill). When NS has just 1 "best" strategy, the RTS element of the game goes away, once again becoming a linear deathmatch game, with some sort of goal.
If I could talk to dev's I'd say stop trying to appeal to the counterstrike crowd, and appeal to the starcraft one, then the counterstrike one will come.
I doubt a first port of NS to Source would take more than a month or so by even just a few freelance devs. From what I understand, you can basically have an old HL1 mod's maps up and running within minutes, just swapping out some of the entities. Porting the gameplay code is harder, but it's still more of a function of running through the code finding outdated function calls and switching them to the new ones. Throw in a few obvious shaders and physics prop entities and you've got a pretty solid game already.
I know the devs feel that a straight port would be pointless, but come on: a straight port would expand the available userbase tremendously, providing an ongoing base for future NS development to come. And it would get NS in on the ground level instead of it coming out quite late in the engine's cycle.
Halflife2 and full SDK comes out November 16. A bare-bones port of NS hits around Christmastime: just when HL2's MP community really starts to get hot. A month later, we get a release with lots of updated textures and a couple of refined maps. Now, of course, things like new models and animations could take a lot longer, and perhaps past this point the devs would really want to start changing things. But basic, simle updates could give us a fairly pretty and already pre-polished game within two or so months from now. What's not to like?
Well let me put this view in it.I have no idea how long this game took to code/ make... Needless to say i think Flyra and his minions put a LOT of work into this mod, and i commend them for this. Now i would see HL2 port possibility as a massive bonus. Previously, a game/ mod was made, played to death in 2 years, then the next game came out, and u forgot about it (these are RTS & FPS's)
All the hard work that went into making a great game was wasted/forgotten after 2 years when the new, flashy game with better wham bam for your bucks (read graphics) came out.
Well with the arrival of HL2 and its port possibilities, your hard work can be upgraded!Put on a shiny new engine for a free!! (Granted you have to recode etc...) So i beg the developers to port NS, it will increase this great games lifespan and obviously make it reach out to a much wider playerbase.
Who wouldn't want to play NS on Source??
I am also saddend to hear that NSGuides have been blankety blanked... is this true?If so why? Why has there been no official announcement?Another reason i got into NS was that the Devs used to post a bit more often.There where hints/ announcements/ Flames all purpetrated by them... Granted Flayra is busy so he cant comment, but shurely someone can? Zunni?
I still think the single saving grace/ Wildecard up NS's sleeve is its Portability. In the mean time, i feel embarassed to share the game with my friends due to its lack of Nub support. CL_autohelp is awful, there is nothing FORCING you to read the Manual, so people just jump in, find they are in WAAAY over their heads, go play CO, say "Meh, just alien Vs Marines Deathmatch" and leave.This saddens me.
Another point i would like to bring up isthat why cant maps be real life/ gritty/ atmospheric and playable? I sort of disagree that the maps are generally getting rinsed with every version, its like washing your favourite T-Shrt over and over, if u keep doing that its gonna fade... what im trying to say is once all maps have been optimised(read made into corridor, hive, corridor, empty room with recsource tower, Marine Start , Corridor) can we get some more lovely and real life locations!
Coding has been for about a month left up to members of the community and former dev's.
Zero Nem said in a recent interview that they're going to wait to see whether HL2 is a huge success or not before even considering porting.
So what's all this fuss about rushing a port out? Based on what we know, it's impossible. It's not going to happen. Flayra takes his brainchild very seriously, do you honestly think he'll blow away its potential with a sloppy rush job HL2 port?
It's not going to happen. Do you realize how important first impressions are to new comers to the game? How would you ever expect the playerbase to increase if the reputation of NS is that of a sloppy, hastily made HL2 port?
Flay and the rest of the dev's certainly do [realise the importance of first impressions], and would never even consider this. Adding to such speculation is pollyannaish and could only stem out of igrnorance.
Simply put, NS isn't dying. You can say that all you want, but go look at a server list sometime and tell me it's on its last breath. As for the community, I don't particularly want it to get any larger than it is. It's in no danger of dying at this size, and just look what happened to CS' community when it gained mass appeal.
The game is fine except for when they sped it up to the 15-20 min matches. I think that this is the main reason why people like the older versions because it was all about map control and defences/mini bases.
1.04 = clear, secure, control and move on
3.0x = clear and move on.
Nem.Zero was on the boards yesterday.
NS players have too much drama.
Nonsense. Back when they first released info about porting HL1 games over, Flay posted about he was actually seriously considering it. Everything we've learned from the SDK and from what Valve has told us points to porting being basically a breeze, relatively speaking, as long as you don't worry about getting new art assets together right away.
The major things that took tons of time to make on NS are these:
1) Art assets/concepts
2) Game code and bugfixing
3) Gameplay Balance
By porting, you basically get to save pretty much ALL of the work done on #3 (i.e., you don't have to do it over). You save most of #2, with some non-trivial but certainly not devastating work needing to be done to make sure all the I's are dotted and the T's crossed for the new engine and it's coding quirks. You get to completely reuse #1 with only very very minor tweaks if you don't want to bother yet.
From there, the basic job is really upgrading #1 with new effects (very easy) new textures (fairly easy, but more gruntwork to actually match them all properly into the maps), and new models/animations/map geometry (much harder, but definately not as urgent, especially since they are all pretty darn good already).
All the other hardcore work is basically done. NS is already (or at least will be by beta6) a really solid package. Having it be on Source is basically a win-win at that point. NS has been a work in progress for most of its lifetime, but it's currently approaching pretty much polished state. Moving it over to Source wouldn't take time away from Flay's commerical endeavors and team, but it would allow the development and refinement of NS to continue with a much higher ceiling on features and graphical appeal.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It's not going to happen. Do you realize how important first impressions are to new comers to the game? How would you ever expect the playerbase to increase if the reputation of NS is that of a sloppy, hastily made HL2 port?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
People's first impressions will be: wow, this is a really solid, well polished GAME. Yes the art is oldschool, but everyone understands that that is what MOST ports will be like at first, and it will only get better. Besides, the art will be no WORSE than it already is in HL1, and frankly, the art is pretty darn GOOD in its current state: it's really not so far behind HL2 art-quality that it will be glaringly embarrasing or anything.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Flay and the rest of the dev's certainly do [realise the importance of first impressions], and would never even consider this. Adding to such speculation is pollyannaish and could only stem out of igrnorance.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lol, the ignorance of Flay basically saying that he was seriously considering it? (Remember, before the ports were announced, Flay WAS saying that he wouldn't consider it: that simply putting NS1 on a new engine without redesigning the game would be a bad idea: but then he apparently reconsidered that after it was shown that the porting was fairly easy: not anytihng like the difficultly of rewriting the game for an entirely different engine) The ignorance of other of the devs basically saying that the only thing holding them back is to wait and see if HL2 is going to be longlasting and thus worth their effort to make the port?