<!--QuoteBegin-Zunni+Nov 19 2004, 10:03 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zunni @ Nov 19 2004, 10:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I don't think Nem said it was being released in 7 days.. re-read his words.. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> From what he said I think he was impleing that there will be a new method of testing builds.
kinda gives me the feeling of what was done with the Constellation and Vet members. with the2.1betas and the Closed 3.0 betas.
<!--QuoteBegin-Stavesacre+Nov 19 2004, 02:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Stavesacre @ Nov 19 2004, 02:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The only chamber now that doesnt really stand well on its own in the early game is the Movement chamber. Now that the Defence chamber isnt absolutely bloody nessecary.
I wonder if there will be any changes to it in the future? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> what back-water server are you from? MC is 10 times a better starting chamebr then SC
1- it allows you to get celerity, unlike sens that is easily countered with MT , celerity can't be countered by anything execpt for better marines with better aim, it matches up your skill agaisnt theres (which hopefully) yours is better.
2- silence rushes are great for comms that are sleeping on a job, I've chomped down countless arms labs and armorys in MS without a shot fired at me because while the rines were away the comm couldn't hear me chomping
3- adren is good for early lerks that want to gas harass the marine start
and 4- the MC hive transport abilitty makes getting a second hive WAY easier, if it gets under attack you can use your MC to just zip on over there to defend it. which is allways a good thing
so don't say that MC isn't good, cuz its the BEST chamber to start your game with.
EpidemicDark Force GorgeJoin Date: 2003-06-29Member: 17781Members
<!--QuoteBegin-Zunni+Nov 19 2004, 04:03 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zunni @ Nov 19 2004, 04:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I don't think Nem said it was being released in 7 days.. re-read his words.. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> So.. we will get a changelog in 7 days time?
<!--QuoteBegin-Epidemic+Nov 20 2004, 05:16 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Epidemic @ Nov 20 2004, 05:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Zunni+Nov 19 2004, 04:03 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zunni @ Nov 19 2004, 04:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I don't think Nem said it was being released in 7 days.. re-read his words.. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> So.. we will get a changelog in 7 days time? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> either way, if it is released in 7 days time, it'll be just in time for the next cal season.
Let me make this perfectly clear: Natural Selection Beta 6 will <i>not</i> be publically released in a week. Sorry, but if you want us devs to make comments regarding NS in here, <i>read the damned posts</i>. A number with a temporal qualifier does <i>not</i> automatically translate into a release date.
<!--QuoteBegin-Nemesis Zero+Nov 20 2004, 06:43 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Nov 20 2004, 06:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Let me make this perfectly clear: Natural Selection Beta 6 will <i>not</i> be publically released in a week. Sorry, but if you want us devs to make comments regarding NS in here, <i>read the damned posts</i>. A number with a temporal qualifier does <i>not</i> automatically translate into a release date. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Dejá-vu. For the last time, the PT's job is not to balance test (beyond the filtering of absolutely gamebreaking flaws). What are we going to do about balance, then? In less than seven days time, you'll know.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So is it a new tester group? Or is it Stage 1 of BUS? I think that if is not a new testing group, then it will be a new method balance in the game.
I think best solution to break DMS is to put the top of Ns main menu: "MAKING MC FIRST MAKES YOUR PE*IS BIGGER" <!--emo&::hive::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/hive5.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='hive5.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::hive::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/hive5.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='hive5.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-SLizer+Nov 20 2004, 01:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SLizer @ Nov 20 2004, 01:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think best solution to break DMS is to put the top of Ns main menu: "MAKING MC FIRST MAKES YOUR PE*IS BIGGER" <!--emo&::hive::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/hive5.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='hive5.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::hive::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/hive5.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='hive5.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I think we'll file that under "Plan B"...
I find it depressing that Zunni is in obscure and hasn't gotten the newsflash that DMS is dead as can be. I personally dislike this change, it removes focus from the interdependence of teammates. What do I need a Gorge for, when I can sit in a vent for 20 seconds and have my HP back?
The justification of weakening DMS doesn't really hold water to me. I could see natural regen to remove an inconvenience like losing 10% of your HP and having to find a heal - but 2% per second (5 seconds per 10%), isn't necessary. Especially for lifeforms which can very realistically be maintained by teamwork instead of innate ability anyway. I could see the SC problem here, but considering SCs other benefits thats not exactly a big blow.
<!--QuoteBegin-SaltzBad+Nov 20 2004, 02:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SaltzBad @ Nov 20 2004, 02:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I find it depressing that Zunni is in obscure and hasn't gotten the newsflash that DMS is dead as can be. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Interesting you say that - as the first person in a five page thread. Also, Zun is the PR guy, not the designer, so even if a decision is wrong, it is not his fault.
Very nice changes, I especially like the regen stuff. Finally some help seems to be going towards the aliens, instead of marines getting stronger again and again and again.
<!--QuoteBegin-Swift Idiot+Nov 19 2004, 03:03 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swift Idiot @ Nov 19 2004, 03:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Different lifeforms make different noises when they fall. What's a gorge sound like? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> My vote is for a fart.
<!--QuoteBegin-Nemesis Zero+Nov 20 2004, 10:53 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Nov 20 2004, 10:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-SaltzBad+Nov 20 2004, 02:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SaltzBad @ Nov 20 2004, 02:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I find it depressing that Zunni is in obscure and hasn't gotten the newsflash that DMS is dead as can be. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Interesting you say that - as the first person in a five page thread. Also, Zun is the PR guy, not the designer, so even if a decision is wrong, it is not his fault. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I was referring to him defending it <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Edit : And for being the first person to mention it, woop-di-doo. DMS truely is dead, some people don't want to tout it too loudly, because right now that realization is still an advantage - but already all the aliengames that have refined MC/SC strats outpower their DC counterparts.
You have to be on some kind of drug that induces severe individualism and unwillingness to function as a group to miss that.
<!--QuoteBegin-SaltzBad+Nov 20 2004, 11:45 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SaltzBad @ Nov 20 2004, 11:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Edit : And for being the first person to mention it, woop-di-doo. DMS truely is dead, some people don't want to tout it too loudly, because right now that realization is still an advantage - but already all the aliengames that have refined MC/SC strats outpower their DC counterparts.
You have to be on some kind of drug that induces severe individualism and unwillingness to function as a group to miss that. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm getting the impression that you feel that way because of the past few weeks in CAL, but where can you find the coordination on a pub to pull the movement/sensory first strats that we see in matches? In the 10 seconds before the countdown, can you get two other people to drop their sensories or movements in specific spots and count on the rest of the team to know how to best utilize celerity or focus? Will your first fades be able to handle the marine team without the extra longevity from regen or carapace?
You have to be on some kind of drug that induces severe individualism and unwillingness to function as a group to miss that. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Funny you should say that Saltzbad. Much of the public gaming community play in a carefree type of mentality that most times hinder the teamwork ethic even when it's unintentional.
Huh? No, you don't need a high level of teamplay as the opposing team (marines) to break DMS - and hence the entire alien team, which is where the silly idea that aliens are underpowered comes from. You need a high level of teamplay to use MC or SC, at least in coordinated games where teamplay is the whole damn point. Its not team deathmatch, its natural goddamn selection. The side that works together better is supposed to win, comprehende senior thickskull?
And if you're just pubbing, you'll do just fine with anything. DMS is only an issue of lazyness and inertia anyway.
Edit : I was referring to the dead/aliveness of DMS in competitive play, but yes it applys there too. Actually I just wanted to use this opportunity to repeat that for everyone, not you : In public play, everything is already equally effective - but DCs are favored out of habit. In competitive play, DCs are less effective but favored because most teams only have outdated copycat strategys and know little else.
These teams work just fine, because they've practiced it for ages - the death of DMS isn't an instant thing, because provided your team is strong enough a DC win is not hard to pull off. Its something thats gradually creeping along, as here and there another person realizes the merit of another chamber and applys them logically (not blindly, like most of the "OLO ANYTHING BUT DC SUCKS" experimenters will). There is no way to prove the defense chamber as outdated other than to say "Well it is, and heres why", and if anyone hasn't understood what an MC or SC is I'll happily explain it next post.
And they'll happily point me to the countless top teams that still use DCs first, and I'll happily point at colossal failures that they've produced (hi exigent), and how any other chamber deployed even very clumsily would have been more effective. This teams will of course for some time to come stick to their methods - but sooner or later the bonds of habit come lose in even the slowest learners. And then we'll be stuck with way over-buffed aliens. Woohoo.
That just goes to show creativity and innovation in NS goes a long way in terms of strategies(some people forget that, sadly in pub games as well).. <i>boy do I miss my time with organized games circa 1.04</i>
<!--QuoteBegin-NGE+Nov 20 2004, 10:31 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NGE @ Nov 20 2004, 10:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well, about the passive regen, I'm going to ignore all the plus/minus debate or what should happen with it and just say
Damage 1 now has a purpose! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The first meaningful interpretation of that change. Unfortunately, we are now going to have more people getting w3 before a1, using this as an important justification for the change.
EpidemicDark Force GorgeJoin Date: 2003-06-29Member: 17781Members
<!--QuoteBegin-Nemesis Zero+Nov 20 2004, 12:43 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Nov 20 2004, 12:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Let me make this perfectly clear: Natural Selection Beta 6 will <i>not</i> be publically released in a week. Sorry, but if you want us devs to make comments regarding NS in here, <i>read the damned posts</i>. A number with a temporal qualifier does <i>not</i> automatically translate into a release date. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh, c´mon. It could easily be misinterprented no matter how many times you read it. It sounded a whole lot like a reference we¨ll be able to see it first hand..
NolSinklerOn the ClorfJoin Date: 2004-02-15Member: 26560Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-Epidemic+Nov 20 2004, 02:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Epidemic @ Nov 20 2004, 02:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Nemesis Zero+Nov 20 2004, 12:43 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Nov 20 2004, 12:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Let me make this perfectly clear: Natural Selection Beta 6 will <i>not</i> be publically released in a week. Sorry, but if you want us devs to make comments regarding NS in here, <i>read the damned posts</i>. A number with a temporal qualifier does <i>not</i> automatically translate into a release date. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh, c´mon. It could easily be misinterprented no matter how many times you read it. It sounded a whole lot like a reference we¨ll be able to see it first hand.. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah same here, it sounded exactly like he was saying "In a week, you will get B6/see the changelog/see more balance changes".
<!--QuoteBegin-i'm lost+Nov 20 2004, 01:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (i'm lost @ Nov 20 2004, 01:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-NGE+Nov 20 2004, 10:31 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NGE @ Nov 20 2004, 10:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well, about the passive regen, I'm going to ignore all the plus/minus debate or what should happen with it and just say
Damage 1 now has a purpose! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The first meaningful interpretation of that change. Unfortunately, we are now going to have more people getting w3 before a1, using this as an important justification for the change. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hopefully people can understand the logic of:
"1 extra bite happens FAR slower than 1 extra bullet"
But unfortunatly, you're right. At least it'll accomplish something now though!
SaltzBad, I don't know what pubs you have the fortune of playing on, but I have yet to consistently see a pub team that 1)communicates 2)plans structure locations 3)can fade without defense upgrades 4)properly utilizes sc/mc upgrades 5)doesn't trashtalk sc/mc first 6)doesn't become completely discouraged as soon as someone drops sc/mc 7)gets a second hive started within 6 minutes.
All of which are necessary in order to go SC/MC first successfully(except for maybe the last one). Face it, pubs don't have the teamwork of clans. <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And if you're just pubbing, you'll do just fine with anything. DMS is only an issue of lazyness and inertia anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, it's a combined issue of people not trying new things AND not being good enough to try those things without a firm ****-reaming. <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->....any other chamber deployed even very clumsily would have been more effective.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You just got finished explaining how scs need to be deployed tactically in order to be effective, so how can you say this? What happens if someone drops 3 scs next to the hive? The aliens DIE. They will roll over and take it, provided the com has any idea whatsoever of what he's doing. MT will equal death in this case; scs are only a counter to mt if you're in range of an sc.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This teams will of course for some time to come stick to their methods - but sooner or later the bonds of habit come lose in even the slowest learners. And then we'll be stuck with way over-buffed aliens. Woohoo. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If aliens are played perfectly, they're over-buffed. When the heck does that happen in a pub? Never. And aliens' effectiveness decreases a lot faster than marines', because marines have more room for error. If you kill a skulk in 30 bullets, that's a 50% decrease in aim from killing a skulk in 20, but both will almost always suffice when you're shooting at a lone skulk. No difference between hitting 50% of your bullets or 35%. However, a skulk isn't allowed to miss his bites, or he's dead. No margin for error.
Basically, DMS is an almost necessary strat, when you have pub players 1) Who don't save for the hive 2) Who aren't good fades 3) Who **** and moan about anything else 4) Who don't drop res, so gorges have no res for a sens network
If you have a team that DOESN'T do these things *cough*clan*cough* then DMS is actually worse than mc/sc first. But don't look for such a team on a pub server. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Comments
From what he said I think he was impleing that there will be a new method of testing builds.
kinda gives me the feeling of what was done with the Constellation and Vet members. with the2.1betas and the Closed 3.0 betas.
I wonder if there will be any changes to it in the future? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
what back-water server are you from? MC is 10 times a better starting chamebr then SC
1- it allows you to get celerity, unlike sens that is easily countered with MT , celerity can't be countered by anything execpt for better marines with better aim, it matches up your skill agaisnt theres (which hopefully) yours is better.
2- silence rushes are great for comms that are sleeping on a job, I've chomped down countless arms labs and armorys in MS without a shot fired at me because while the rines were away the comm couldn't hear me chomping
3- adren is good for early lerks that want to gas harass the marine start
and 4- the MC hive transport abilitty makes getting a second hive WAY easier, if it gets under attack you can use your MC to just zip on over there to defend it. which is allways a good thing
so don't say that MC isn't good, cuz its the BEST chamber to start your game with.
We need to start teaching all the noobs the truth.
So.. we will get a changelog in 7 days time?
So.. we will get a changelog in 7 days time? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
either way, if it is released in 7 days time, it'll be just in time for the next cal season.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Dejá-vu. For the last time, the PT's job is not to balance test (beyond the filtering of absolutely gamebreaking flaws). What are we going to do about balance, then? In less than seven days time, you'll know.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So is it a new tester group? Or is it Stage 1 of BUS?
I think that if is not a new testing group, then it will be a new method balance in the game.
I think we'll file that under "Plan B"...
The justification of weakening DMS doesn't really hold water to me. I could see natural regen to remove an inconvenience like losing 10% of your HP and having to find a heal - but 2% per second (5 seconds per 10%), isn't necessary. Especially for lifeforms which can very realistically be maintained by teamwork instead of innate ability anyway. I could see the SC problem here, but considering SCs other benefits thats not exactly a big blow.
Interesting you say that - as the first person in a five page thread. Also, Zun is the PR guy, not the designer, so even if a decision is wrong, it is not his fault.
My vote is for a fart.
Interesting you say that - as the first person in a five page thread. Also, Zun is the PR guy, not the designer, so even if a decision is wrong, it is not his fault. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was referring to him defending it <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Edit : And for being the first person to mention it, woop-di-doo. DMS truely is dead, some people don't want to tout it too loudly, because right now that realization is still an advantage - but already all the aliengames that have refined MC/SC strats outpower their DC counterparts.
You have to be on some kind of drug that induces severe individualism and unwillingness to function as a group to miss that.
You have to be on some kind of drug that induces severe individualism and unwillingness to function as a group to miss that. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm getting the impression that you feel that way because of the past few weeks in CAL, but where can you find the coordination on a pub to pull the movement/sensory first strats that we see in matches? In the 10 seconds before the countdown, can you get two other people to drop their sensories or movements in specific spots and count on the rest of the team to know how to best utilize celerity or focus? Will your first fades be able to handle the marine team without the extra longevity from regen or carapace?
You have to be on some kind of drug that induces severe individualism and unwillingness to function as a group to miss that.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Funny you should say that Saltzbad. Much of the public gaming community play in a carefree type of mentality that most times hinder the teamwork ethic even when it's unintentional.
And if you're just pubbing, you'll do just fine with anything. DMS is only an issue of lazyness and inertia anyway.
Edit : I was referring to the dead/aliveness of DMS in competitive play, but yes it applys there too. Actually I just wanted to use this opportunity to repeat that for everyone, not you : In public play, everything is already equally effective - but DCs are favored out of habit. In competitive play, DCs are less effective but favored because most teams only have outdated copycat strategys and know little else.
These teams work just fine, because they've practiced it for ages - the death of DMS isn't an instant thing, because provided your team is strong enough a DC win is not hard to pull off. Its something thats gradually creeping along, as here and there another person realizes the merit of another chamber and applys them logically (not blindly, like most of the "OLO ANYTHING BUT DC SUCKS" experimenters will). There is no way to prove the defense chamber as outdated other than to say "Well it is, and heres why", and if anyone hasn't understood what an MC or SC is I'll happily explain it next post.
And they'll happily point me to the countless top teams that still use DCs first, and I'll happily point at colossal failures that they've produced (hi exigent), and how any other chamber deployed even very clumsily would have been more effective. This teams will of course for some time to come stick to their methods - but sooner or later the bonds of habit come lose in even the slowest learners. And then we'll be stuck with way over-buffed aliens. Woohoo.
Damage 1 now has a purpose!
Alien revolution ++
Damage 1 now has a purpose! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The first meaningful interpretation of that change. Unfortunately, we are now going to have more people getting w3 before a1, using this as an important justification for the change.
Oh, c´mon. It could easily be misinterprented no matter how many times you read it. It sounded a whole lot like a reference we¨ll be able to see it first hand..
Oh, c´mon. It could easily be misinterprented no matter how many times you read it. It sounded a whole lot like a reference we¨ll be able to see it first hand.. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah same here, it sounded exactly like he was saying "In a week, you will get B6/see the changelog/see more balance changes".
Damage 1 now has a purpose! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The first meaningful interpretation of that change. Unfortunately, we are now going to have more people getting w3 before a1, using this as an important justification for the change. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hopefully people can understand the logic of:
"1 extra bite happens FAR slower than 1 extra bullet"
But unfortunatly, you're right. At least it'll accomplish something now though!
different chuckles would be great too, hehe
1)communicates
2)plans structure locations
3)can fade without defense upgrades
4)properly utilizes sc/mc upgrades
5)doesn't trashtalk sc/mc first
6)doesn't become completely discouraged as soon as someone drops sc/mc
7)gets a second hive started within 6 minutes.
All of which are necessary in order to go SC/MC first successfully(except for maybe the last one). Face it, pubs don't have the teamwork of clans.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And if you're just pubbing, you'll do just fine with anything. DMS is only an issue of lazyness and inertia anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, it's a combined issue of people not trying new things AND not being good enough to try those things without a firm ****-reaming.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->....any other chamber deployed even very clumsily would have been more effective.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You just got finished explaining how scs need to be deployed tactically in order to be effective, so how can you say this? What happens if someone drops 3 scs next to the hive? The aliens DIE. They will roll over and take it, provided the com has any idea whatsoever of what he's doing. MT will equal death in this case; scs are only a counter to mt if you're in range of an sc.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This teams will of course for some time to come stick to their methods - but sooner or later the bonds of habit come lose in even the slowest learners. And then we'll be stuck with way over-buffed aliens. Woohoo. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If aliens are played perfectly, they're over-buffed. When the heck does that happen in a pub? Never. And aliens' effectiveness decreases a lot faster than marines', because marines have more room for error. If you kill a skulk in 30 bullets, that's a 50% decrease in aim from killing a skulk in 20, but both will almost always suffice when you're shooting at a lone skulk. No difference between hitting 50% of your bullets or 35%. However, a skulk isn't allowed to miss his bites, or he's dead. No margin for error.
Basically, DMS is an almost necessary strat, when you have pub players
1) Who don't save for the hive
2) Who aren't good fades
3) Who **** and moan about anything else
4) Who don't drop res, so gorges have no res for a sens network
If you have a team that DOESN'T do these things *cough*clan*cough* then DMS is actually worse than mc/sc first. But don't look for such a team on a pub server. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->