Tsunami Waves
Swiftspear
Custim tital Join Date: 2003-10-29 Member: 22097Members
Custim tital Join Date: 2003-10-29 Member: 22097Members
in Discussions
<div class="IPBDescription">and horrible destruction!</div> Alot of the old discussion posts I don't really want to resurrect, so here is a new one.
Basicly I'm just asking what do you think the longterm effects the tsunami's will have on the world, and if its possible that in the end this might have been the kick in the teeth the world needed to divert western attention to the poverty and tragedy that goes on all over the east?
If you have been paying more attention to the whole issue than I have, or you have any involvement with one of the reliefe progects feel free to share what is going on at the moment, as I am always way out of the loop and I didn't really even find out about it happening until about a week after the fact (I don't watch TV at all really).
Basicly I'm just asking what do you think the longterm effects the tsunami's will have on the world, and if its possible that in the end this might have been the kick in the teeth the world needed to divert western attention to the poverty and tragedy that goes on all over the east?
If you have been paying more attention to the whole issue than I have, or you have any involvement with one of the reliefe progects feel free to share what is going on at the moment, as I am always way out of the loop and I didn't really even find out about it happening until about a week after the fact (I don't watch TV at all really).
Comments
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The death toll just keeps climbing as well...
<a href='http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6754820/' target='_blank'>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6754820/</a>
If you look at this in the big picture of things it's one big natural disaster to top off a year of oddities, but that’s a little off topic.
Instantly reminded me of this <a href='http://www.xs4all.nl/~mke/exitmundi.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.xs4all.nl/~mke/exitmundi.htm</a>
I would have to say that if the tsunami in the South Pacific does us any good it's that our governments will most likely take the slightest bit of volcanic activity on this island very seriously.
Then again maybe it's not that bad I'll have to look for some more sources.
EDIT AND O-T: Wow. I need to change my avatar.
You can watch videos of the tsunami and it's destruction at <a href='http://www.ebaumsworld.com' target='_blank'>EbaumsWorld</a>.
More videos: <a href='http://www.waxy.org/archive/2004/12/28/amateur_.shtml' target='_blank'>Here</a> <a href='http://jlgolson.blogspot.com/2004/12/tsunami-video.html' target='_blank'>and here</a>. I'm sure you could find more, but you get the idea.
<a href='http://www.archive.org/download/tsunami_penang_beach/tsunami_penang_beach.wmv' target='_blank'>This video made me laugh</a>...I mean cmon, you see a huge **** wave coming at you, and that guy is just standing there waiting for it to hit him right in the face! He gets the dumbest man alive award... <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
[/sarcasm]
Its a pity this amount of money can't be raised to help stop malaria (easily treatable) killing 3 million people a year.
I suppose the optimistic point of view is that this isn't just considered another token natural disaster that kills lots of brown people, but that alot of focus and aid has been pledged and will actually make it to the victims.
The pessimistic view is that millions round the world are suffering and dying in the most horrible ways imaginable and we don't give a toss cos its not an exciting tv event....I mean a tidal wave vs boring famine....tidal wave wins everytime.
Including:
<a href='https://www.redcross.org/donate/donation-form.asp' target='_blank'>American Red Cross International Response Fund</a>
<a href='https://www.americaresfoundation.net/donate/default.aspx?id=South%20Asia%20Earthquake%20Relief%20Fund' target='_blank'>AmeriCares South Asia Earthquake Relief Fund</a>
<a href='https://www.directrelief.org/sections/support_us/d_donate_now.html' target='_blank'>Direct Relief International International Assistance Fund</a>
<a href='http://www.msf.org/donations/index.cfm' target='_blank'>Médecins Sans Frontières International Tsunami Emergency Appeal</a>
<a href='https://secure.ga3.org/02/asia_earthquake04' target='_blank'>Oxfam Asian Earthquake & Tsunami Fund</a>
<a href='http://www.sarvodaya.org/' target='_blank'>Sarvodaya Relief Fund for Tsunami Tragedy</a>
<a href='http://www.unicefusa.org/tsunami' target='_blank'>UNICEF South Asia Tsunami Relief Efforts</a>
If you want to learn more about tsunami's read up about it at: <a href='http://science.howstuffworks.com/tsunami.htm' target='_blank'>http://science.howstuffworks.com/tsunami.htm</a>
One point I'd like to bring up from the page I've just shown is how there was seismic activity within the region (Sumatra) approximately 120 years ago.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->August 27, 1883: The eruption of the volcano Krakatau creates a tsunami that sweeps over nearby Java and Sumatra, killing 36,000 people.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I will further research that date and incident, if any one is interested.
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A friend of mine told me this over the phone as well, said he saw it on CNN, I didn't believe him for a minute. But I have to admit hearing about it twice is odd.
Heh maybe it fixed the damn planet, you can't say things were looking to great weather wise before the earthquake hit...or maybe we're spiraling towards the sun. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Anyone have a reliable link pertaining to this?
I would love to look but I have go chip the damn ice off the driveway for the next 8 hours…
There were the usual conspiracy theories:
1*Govt eco-weapons;
2*all the worlds govts knew and decided not to tell Indonesia or India or Sumatra, for that matter, just for kicks and giggles, really;
3*God caused the tsunami, because there was too much sin in the area.
4*Aliens did to to fix the Earth's wonky axis
Now, COME ON. Govt eco-weapons? They just didn't feel like telling them? Yes, God caused the tsunami, because he's been talking to his HR team, and decided that the best way to wipe out sin isn't through repenting at all, it's through a GIANT TSUNAMI.
And of course, what self respecting conspiracy theory set is complete without aliens? So, there you go: It was either the govt, God, or aliens.
On the positive side, the British public have raised ~£60 million in donations. That's four times the amount our government has pledged.
So was there an initial hit that totally wiped out some of the bigger islands? I read that tidal waves 30 feet high were traveling at 600 MPH, yet after seeing the videos it doesn't look nearly that rough. It looks like the ocean rose so many feet and just flooded everything (which what a tsunami is basically...). I want a video of a wave going 600 MPH damnit!
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A friend of mine told me this over the phone as well, said he saw it on CNN, I didn't believe him for a minute. But I have to admit hearing about it twice is odd.
Heh maybe it fixed the damn planet, you can't say things were looking to great weather wise before the earthquake hit...or maybe we're spiraling towards the sun. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Anyone have a reliable link pertaining to this?
I would love to look but I have go chip the damn ice off the driveway for the next 8 hours… <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It was on the CNN website a while ago... but now it's buried by all the tonnes of more recent news.
Basicly it was just a scientific theory that stated that due to the massive ammount of land that slid into the earth from the earthquake the earth might be slightly more compact than it was before... The consequences of this they claim would be about half a second less time per a revolution (days are now 1/2 second shorter) and a change of about 5 inches to the wobble of earth's axis (which wobbles an average of 33 feet already)
So basicly, from a scientific standpoint, the earthquake was big enough to make a huge difference to the earth, but from a daily life standpoint there will be no knowticable differences the axis or spin of the earth.
I finally found out what these pictures of the wave reminded me of: Fall storms on the west coast of Denmark (more specifically the peninsula Jutland) and Germany. Yep. Waves thirty feet in height. Several of them. Several times a year. What people do over there is build dams, and build their houses up high. A little preparation goes a long way.
The areas that were hardest hit by the tsunami were areas that had recently (well, at least in the last fifty years or so) been developed into tourist paradises. Areas that had previously been only sparsely or not at all settled. Likewise, many of the victims were either tourists or employees catering to those tourists. I'm sure some hotel owner is very busy checking to see whether his customers paid in advance.
The world governments knew? Well, SOMEBODY knew, because many of the areas that got hit were warned in advance that there had been a quake, and that it could have caused a tidal wave. Unfortunately, they treated the entire episode in typical <a href='http://rinkworks.com/movieaminute/m/jaws.shtml' target='_blank'>Jaws</a> fashion, as quote from <a href='http://rinkworks.com/movieaminute/' target='_blank'>Movie-A-Minute:</a><!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Roy Scheider
There's a big shark in the water. Close the beaches.
Murray Hamilton
No way. Your evidence is inconclusive. Clean the dead people off the beach to make room for the tourists.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yep. No warning was given, because OH NOES, CRYING "WOLF" MIGHT SCARE AWAY THE TOURISTS!
All in all, while this is another great example of mother nature showing how wantonly she can deal out death and destruction, many many deaths can once again be attributed to human error and greed. Good thing I'm a cynical misanthrope, so that I can at least get some sort of perverse pleasure out of this.
As a finishing note, don't get me wrong: I do not mock the dead. It's sad that they died. It's even more sad that many of them DID NOT HAVE TO DIE, but did so anyway because somebody else was guarding their profit margins.
and of course the earthquake was noticed, but an early warning was impossible because there was no early warning-system in the area, unlike in countries around pacific ocean.
Whe (Netherlands) gave like 112 MIL to Asia , lol it's much i know but good for the poeple outta there.
Greets, n4p
I thought this was a discussion on the tsunami waves, and not 99.9% of the human populations behaviour in reaction to it? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> And more flames about conspiracies? Please try and stay on topic people!
Thanks for the info Swiftspear, I just never believed half the stuff that comes out of my friends mouths. Although, seen as the short term implications aren't drastic, no real reason to discuss that further, as we will all be dead before anything major happens to the Earth.
Olmy says it best when it comes to donation, it is always the 3rd world countries taking a bruising and being left to struggle on their own, where as the more developed countries can create their own aid, and are always offered it from others, just look at the WTC incident.
Epidemic's comment also makes me think what kind of impact an 'over-populated' human race could have on the impact of the Earth. It's very unlikely but I'm sure we're all making an impact on the amount of pressure on certain plates and the aeosthenosphere (not sure if thats the correct word, and most probably spelt incorrectly). Could we, as a human race possibly be one of the many factors causing earthquakes?
Coming to TOmekki, there is indeed no early warning system, which is needed in an area which has had moderate volcanic/seismac activity in the pass. Although in some places further away from the epicenter than the Indonesian islands such as the east coast of India, it would have been possible to see the Tsunami waves a mile off (I estimate 10/15 maybe even 20 minutes until land impact), and possible for less of their own people to have been killed. I blame that more on the lack of education, than an early warning system.
I thought this was a discussion on the tsunami waves, and not 99.9% of the human populations behaviour in reaction to it? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> And more flames about conspiracies? Please try and stay on topic people!
Thanks for the info Swiftspear, I just never believed half the stuff that comes out of my friends mouths. Although, seen as the short term implications aren't drastic, no real reason to discuss that further, as we will all be dead before anything major happens to the Earth.
Olmy says it best when it comes to donation, it is always the 3rd world countries taking a bruising and being left to struggle on their own, where as the more developed countries can create their own aid, and are always offered it from others, just look at the WTC incident.
Epidemic's comment also makes me think what kind of impact an 'over-populated' human race could have on the impact of the Earth. It's very unlikely but I'm sure we're all making an impact on the amount of pressure on certain plates and the aeosthenosphere (not sure if thats the correct word, and most probably spelt incorrectly). Could we, as a human race possibly be one of the many factors causing earthquakes?
Coming to TOmekki, there is indeed no early warning system, which is needed in an area which has had moderate volcanic/seismac activity in the pass. Although in some places further away from the epicenter than the Indonesian islands such as the east coast of India, it would have been possible to see the Tsunami waves a mile off (I estimate 10/15 maybe even 20 minutes until land impact), and possible for less of their own people to have been killed. I blame that more on the lack of education, than an early warning system. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Indeed, many people actually went out and had a look just before the tsunami came in.
Australia (where I live) has donated 1 billion dollars to Indonesia, and right now, our commercial network and combined for a telethon thats has raised 8.5 million dollars.
EDIT: Final Total came to $15,198.349.53
I read that G7 nations have agreed on a moratorium on debts from nations affected by the tsunami.
Australia has decided not to join the moratorium (we're not a G7 country, anyway) because we don't see an effective way of making sure that the money freed up by the release of the debt payments would go to aid or rebuilding efforts, so instead they set up a joint board of both Australian and Indonesian officials, and have pledged $1bn to this.
I think (this is just what I remember) that Indonesia owes Australia something in the ballpark of $100m?
<a href='http://www.archive.org/download/tsunami_penang_beach/tsunami_penang_beach.wmv' target='_blank'>This video made me laugh</a>...I mean cmon, you see a huge **** wave coming at you, and that guy is just standing there waiting for it to hit him right in the face! He gets the dumbest man alive award...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can rest assured that he's not alive any longer to read your insulting ridicule.
In reply to your second post, Mullet, the videos you saw were probably along areas like Bangladesh, where many miles of shallow water weakened the waves so they never reached as high. Areas where the water rose many feet in the air... you can guess as to why there's not too many videos of that, can't you?
Finally Mullet, although I am agrieved by the sheer arrogance of your posts so far, I have to say I can empathise with you. It's hard to sympathise with numbers, so allow me to quote from one line in a recent TIME magazine article regarding the tsunami:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->"I will never forget the screaming of those being washed out to sea," Budianshi says. Of the 100 people in the village, he says, only five survived.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course, that is a chiefly emotional appeal, so let me stress what has been said already. This is an immediate humanitarian crisis in desperate need of immediate solvency. Your dollars in cancer research (how many did you donate to cancer research, btw?) will perhaps aid in the preservation of many more lives in some unknown amount of time, but you can be sure that your money donated now will save the lives of many, concrete individuals who have recently lost family members and everything they own. If I were given the choice of saving one sick elderly in a hospital, to a starving orphan in Sri Lanka, I would save the latter.
Lolfighter, you are not putting the positions of these people in perspective. They have never witnessed a tsunami ever. The Indian ocean has not witnessed a tsunami in nearly one millenia. If you were to say there was a tsunami coming, many people in those villages would run down to the ocean to watch it coming. I don't believe the people who ignored the warning signs were purposely greedy, imagine if you were told that there would be an earthquake tomorrow, and you lived in Antartica. However, it is important that warning systems for natural disasters be implemented not just in terms of Indian ocean tsunamis (actually, it would by all means be a poor investment, given the rarity of these events). This is where my post starts relating to the topic at hand, so pay attention <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->. What the tsunami hopefully will do is raise awareness of natural disaster in all areas of the world, especially in impoverished areas like the Indian Ocean where a system for early alert would not be fiscally reasonable. What I hope will happen, and by implication of hope will not happen most likely is that this tragedy will act as a stimulus for prosperous nations to spend a little on the welfare of the little ones. I believe this may be a platform of sorts for what I call international progressivism (although i'm sure you polisci majors have a better term <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->), that is, a greater sense of philanthropism among the international community. It's atrocious that humanitarian crimes like those in Sudan go untouched.
Secondly, I am holding on to some vain hope that this invent might be the start of some uphill climb in Western-Muslim nations relations. However, simply the fact that America is NOT the number one contributer to international aid jepordizes this possibility.
Finally, my immediate concern is one already expressed by many other posters: that this pledged aid will not arrive. I have a feeling that the U.S., for one, will pay in full (though I am equally likely to bite my tongue many months from now) given the disproportionate amount of attention given to its share of the international philanthropical debt. Countries like Australia, and Japan I can neither choose heads or tails, as I am not familiar with the politics of either country (although Japan is familiar with tsunamis, having invented the word). I just hope that enough makes it through that the victimized nations will be able to recover and then some.
If you've read through this entire post, you would be absolutely right in calling me a hopeless idealist <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->.