The Problem With Marines
Tieom
Join Date: 2002-10-31 Member: 1774Members
Join Date: 2002-10-31 Member: 1774Members
<div class="IPBDescription">and a little math to back it up.</div> Lets say there's a showdown between one (1) Fade and one (1) Marine.
Fade gets carapace 3, the marine heavy armor (Not upgraded) and HMG (Also not upgraded). So, roughly mid-game stuff.
If I asked you who would win, I'm betting more than half of you would say the marine. And you'd be right.
Lets break it down:
Health:
Fade: 200 HP, 125 armor. This is 325 damage taken before death.
Marine: 100 HP, 250 armor. This is 350 damage taken before death, assuming the marine isnt plyed with healthkits.
So the marine has a little more health in him, big deal. But it gets worse.
The damages over time (How fast the attack does damage, on average) are:
HMG: 20 damage per bullet, ~15 shots per second = 300 damage / second. Kills the fade in just over a second at point blank (90% accuracy) or 2.5 at range (~50% accuracy). The HMG can sustain full-auto fire for more than a second, so reloading isnt really an issue.
Fade claws: 80 damage per swipe, ~2.5 swipes per second = 200 damage/second. Unless the fade has a surprise advantage, it's dead.
Fade acid rocket: 50 damage per shot, ~2.5 shots per second. Assuming perfect accuracy (Not going to happen), that's 125 damage per second.
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Unless the Fade gets at least a 0.3 second headstart for battering away at the marine, it's goodbye Fade. If the fade misses with a swipe or two (which happens in melee), it's marine time.
Now, someone will spring up and say "But that's not how the game is played! The fade should have a lerk with him for umbra!". Considering how rarely that happens in actual games (Perhaps I'm just playing with the wrong people...), I will still grant you that it might happen.
The fade can only use acid rocket, and has to stand still, so the marine's accuracy will rise to about 90%. This ends up being 15% of regular DPS for the marine, that is, 45. The fade wins, in this case, assuming greater than 40% of regular DPS for the rockets. Also assuming that the marine doesnt wise up and retreat.
But, if the aliens get to have their act together, so will the marines. Which means a group (Of 2 to 4) are travelling together, and they likely have the commander with medkits standing by, and perhaps a grenadier. Combined with the fades much-reduced surprise ability against a group, it means the fade loses. Hard(er).
And of course, that's if there are no turrets nearby.
Fade gets carapace 3, the marine heavy armor (Not upgraded) and HMG (Also not upgraded). So, roughly mid-game stuff.
If I asked you who would win, I'm betting more than half of you would say the marine. And you'd be right.
Lets break it down:
Health:
Fade: 200 HP, 125 armor. This is 325 damage taken before death.
Marine: 100 HP, 250 armor. This is 350 damage taken before death, assuming the marine isnt plyed with healthkits.
So the marine has a little more health in him, big deal. But it gets worse.
The damages over time (How fast the attack does damage, on average) are:
HMG: 20 damage per bullet, ~15 shots per second = 300 damage / second. Kills the fade in just over a second at point blank (90% accuracy) or 2.5 at range (~50% accuracy). The HMG can sustain full-auto fire for more than a second, so reloading isnt really an issue.
Fade claws: 80 damage per swipe, ~2.5 swipes per second = 200 damage/second. Unless the fade has a surprise advantage, it's dead.
Fade acid rocket: 50 damage per shot, ~2.5 shots per second. Assuming perfect accuracy (Not going to happen), that's 125 damage per second.
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Unless the Fade gets at least a 0.3 second headstart for battering away at the marine, it's goodbye Fade. If the fade misses with a swipe or two (which happens in melee), it's marine time.
Now, someone will spring up and say "But that's not how the game is played! The fade should have a lerk with him for umbra!". Considering how rarely that happens in actual games (Perhaps I'm just playing with the wrong people...), I will still grant you that it might happen.
The fade can only use acid rocket, and has to stand still, so the marine's accuracy will rise to about 90%. This ends up being 15% of regular DPS for the marine, that is, 45. The fade wins, in this case, assuming greater than 40% of regular DPS for the rockets. Also assuming that the marine doesnt wise up and retreat.
But, if the aliens get to have their act together, so will the marines. Which means a group (Of 2 to 4) are travelling together, and they likely have the commander with medkits standing by, and perhaps a grenadier. Combined with the fades much-reduced surprise ability against a group, it means the fade loses. Hard(er).
And of course, that's if there are no turrets nearby.
Comments
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Marine: easy to use, easy to be fully effective with.
Alien: hard to use, takes time/intelligence to be fully effective with. never enough players on the team ;P
A) Why would the Fade need to stand still to use Acid Rocket?
B) Blink to close ranks, disorient the marine, and/or teleport back to a defensive chamber to heal.
C) Fade has *much* faster movement rate than an HA-equipped marine. Marine is an easier target by far.
D) Acid Rocket does splash damage as well.
E) The Fade will have at least one other upgrade (he is a two-hive alien), making him a much more effective fighter no matter what the upgrade is.
I could go on.
As for y'all who say aliens should be able to solo all the time... yes, they are more deathmatch-like. However, they are still a TEAM, and if they don't play as one they can expect to lose. Hypothetical: don't try to take down a marine base by yourself as a Fade, and tell me the balance is off when you die from the 4 turrets firing at you. If you had another Fade, a lerk, and a gorge with you and still got owned, maybe I'll consider your complaint to have some shred of merit.
This game isnt all about numbers (well, it is, but that's because it's all really just code)
I mean... if you are going to look at it like that, why dont you go play
half-pythagoreas?
Or Avogado's-life?
I mean... Go write some numbers on paper and do my physics work for me, but dont lag my servers <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
If the fade is so incredible dumb to stand in front of a HA marine with an HMG, well, the title is "Natural-Selection", isn't it? The fade *could* also blink behind the marine and start circle strafing the marine while clawing him. The marine would have to turn around and aim at the fade, giving the fade more time to damage the marine. Now that the fade is circle strafing, the marine would miss a lot more, means even more time for the fade.
About acid rocket: It's got perfect accuracy and does splash damage (so you can use it like a Quake rocketlauncher). Using the fades higher speed he could just jump out of cover, fire one shot and retreat behind cover again. The marine would have to rely on his reaction to shoot, reducing his ROF and accuracy greatly. The marine could also start to auto fire at the corner, so he must not rely on his reaction, but would run out of ammunition pretty quick and the fade will most likely only show up when the fire stops. And that's why marines should never travel alone, no matter what equipment they have.