<!--QuoteBegin-God Killer+Jan 14 2005, 12:10 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (God Killer @ Jan 14 2005, 12:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Oh well, anyway I don't have all the time in the world to play. To beat the top clans I would need to play a lot more and know a lot more stuff about configs and get a better pc, better mouse, don't work at home, not have a girlfriend, etc.
If I need all that to be the best of the best, it's not worth it. I don't have 400$ for a better video card and 800$ for a new pc. I have a life and I have to build it and for a family too. And if I get negetive scores too often, I begin to feel bad about myself thinking I should be smarter etc. That usually makes me break stuff or beat myself up... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <span style='color:white'>Be nice.</span> Do you REALLY think that competitive play for online games consists of not having a life, spending thousands of dollars on a computer, not having girlfriends, and not spending time with your family? You need about as much time as you spend pubbing, if not LESS to play for a clan. Skill comes from practice, and practice takes time. You don't need to dedicate your life to it.. it's a damn game. Not a single excellent player you ever come across dedicates their life to this game, it's just a horrible stigma that you guys put in the community that makes people think that. The only people that even remotely have the right to not have a life and play a game for one, are those who get payed to do it, and nobody in the NS community does that.
You all need to get your priorities straight, it's just a game.
<!--QuoteBegin-Pepe Muffassa+Jan 14 2005, 01:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Pepe Muffassa @ Jan 14 2005, 01:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> hmm, my impression of clans...
I see cri. - I leave the game. I see exi. - I leave the game.
The line between top clan members and hackers is incredibly thin - I am of the opinion that the top clan members use hacks on pub servers - just to **** everyone off. Not only that, but they always clan stack.
No, clanners deserve the reputation that they get. Your plea to revive the competitive community is falling on deaf ears. I'm standing around with the nails ready to put it in its coffin. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Then you get to put up with us in your pubs day in and day out, end of story. We no longer get to scrim eachother and the competitive community is dead. Now we all go to your favorite public servers and completely obliterate all of the little newbies, and there is absolutely NOTHING you can do about it, except whine, cry, ****, moan, what have you, and it will all be YOUR fault for having not kept us out of your public server.
Given 4 months, the pub scene will be swarming with the death of the competitive community and all of its veterens. I'll see you on the flip side then mate :>.
Now see, this is the kind of attitude clanners need to have to heal the rift between the clan scene and the pub scene. <!--QuoteBegin-pubber+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (pubber)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->hmm, my impression of clans...
I see cri. - I leave the game. I see exi. - I leave the game.
The line between top clan members and hackers is incredibly thin - I am of the opinion that the top clan members use hacks on pub servers - just to **** everyone off. Not only that, but they always clan stack.
No, clanners deserve the reputation that they get. Your plea to revive the competitive community is falling on deaf ears. I'm standing around with the nails ready to put it in its coffin.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> And this is exactly what we DON'T need from pubbers. This has to be the first thread in a long while that I've seen the "moral high ground" being occupied by clanners <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I think I might join a clan....I know I can't make one, not enough friends who care enough about NS/clans to really make one....been playing pubs for more than a year now, you'd think I would've joined a clan somewhere along the line. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Pepe Muffassa+Jan 14 2005, 01:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Pepe Muffassa @ Jan 14 2005, 01:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> hmm, my impression of clans...
I see cri. - I leave the game. I see exi. - I leave the game.
The line between top clan members and hackers is incredibly thin - I am of the opinion that the top clan members use hacks on pub servers - just to **** everyone off. Not only that, but they always clan stack.
No, clanners deserve the reputation that they get. Your plea to revive the competitive community is falling on deaf ears. I'm standing around with the nails ready to put it in its coffin. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> This is why the NS Community is the way it is. Seems like most pubbers have this sort of mentality, whether they maliciously mean it or are just uniformed about it. And what's worse is a lot of public server admins also have this mentality as well. I remember when #cri.ogenics first recruited me into #cri. We use to play together a lot when NS came out, and when I created a [NS4Life] club, it was a lot of fun but then after a time people went their separate ways. Some stayed in NS pubs, some like crio went into competitive NS, I strayed back to cal-m CS. When I returned to NS, crio invited me to join #cri, I was a little reluctant at first but I finally agreed and I'm very glad that I agreed. It opened my eyes to so many new concepts in NS, teamwork that was never seen in public play, the skill level difference was astonishing. I went from 'pubstar' to 'newb' overnight and honestly, it was very refreshing, kinda like when NS first came out. However, the drawback was the community. One day I was a regular NS Player, the next, once I slip on the tag, I'm this evil doer out to conquer the world with my h4x/scripts, being banned from a particular server the first day with the message 'You can't spell scripts without cri'.
I don't blame people like Pepe Muffassa because I've seen it a lot in Counter-Strike. It was a little big similar in that community too but definately not as blatant. When you play around the cal-m zone and go to practice your aiming and reaction time on pubs, you end up getting banned unless the people know you. The reason is there are always people out there like Pepe Muffassa who thinks that there is no way someone can have so much more skill than him. It's probably hard for him to fathom how such skilled players could do certain things in NS because he himself never thought about doing such maneuvers and the servers he play on don't have people of that caliber. Then there is pride, it's hard and I will admit, even for me to think that someone would be way better at me in a game that I think I am really good at.
However, this could be remedied and should be remedied but it requries effort from both communities. Zunni and company are already trying to bring both communities together, by providing information about CAL, HLTV on big matches so people can look in on the 'other side' of NS without being directly affected. I have to say the competitive community has gotten better too attitudewise, yes there are still egos out there but there will always be egos. But with Forlorn and Porcha gone (those two were major attitude problems in my opinion even though they did know what they were talking about most of the time, not all), the competitive community is improving and constantly trying to improve. Just that sometimes people can be viewed as an elitist or an egomaniac is because they are passionate about the game and doesn't want to see NS go down the drain.
The public community also has to make an attempt at this reconciliation though many stated they don't care about the competitive community and won't try, that is of course their decision. They need to keep an open mind about stuff like scripts, tactics, and skill. I am flattered by Pepe Muffassa's opinions, as many are if they are accused of 'hacking', and that's what it is, his opinion. I can try to convince him that no, the top NS clans don't hack, but it's up to him to believe it or not.
Lastly, clan stacking. Yes it's been done, and it probably will be done more. Clan stacking is like stacking with your friends, whether they are all in a clan or not. Many people have stated that this game is more fun with well oiled teamwork, that's why clans stack, that's why friends stack. They are use to each other's playing style and enjoy the game more together. Why risk joining a team where no one works together and everyone has a miserable time? It's true it might ruin games, but everyone deserves to have fun. Instead of being turned off once you see a team that is stacked, why not try harder to win, to improve your own skill level, to observe how the other team plays so you yourself can get better. No one can increase their playing skill if in their mind they are already the best and people who are better only hack/script/stack/grief.
ZunniThe best thing to happen to I&S in a long whileJoin Date: 2002-11-26Member: 10016Members
edited January 2005
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Seems like most pubbers have this sort of mentality, whether they maliciously mean it or are just uniformed about it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just like there are clanners out there who act like immature jerks with a pickle up an uncomfortable body oriface (you can choose which one) there are pubbers who can be misinformed and act "jerkish" as well. Understand most of the pub community, doesn't know/care about clans. So generalizing in both cases is incorrect. Think about this, 1 guy talking smack on a server of 16 players amounts to 6% of those players.. Hardly a majority. Best thing to do iis to throw up a reference to #nslearn or here (ns.com) and let those who want to learn more about competitve play do so.
<!--QuoteBegin-Zunni+Jan 14 2005, 02:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zunni @ Jan 14 2005, 02:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Seems like most pubbers have this sort of mentality, whether they maliciously mean it or are just uniformed about it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just like there are clanners out there who act like immature jerks with a pickle up an uncomfortable body oriface (you can choose which one) there are pubbers who can be misinformed and act "jerkish" as well. Understand most of the pub community, doesn't know/care about clans. So generalizing in both cases is incorrect. Think about this, 1 guy talking smack on a server of 16 players amounts to 6% of those players.. Hardly a majority. Best thing to do iis to throw up a reference to #nslearn or here (ns.com) and let those who want to learn more about competitve play do so.
The rest I agree with 100% <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I guess it's just our experience that is different in the public scene but I will defer to your reasoning. I should've been more clear that from my own past experience, about 70% of the random public servers I've visited have kicked/banned/some other abuse from its admins or regular community. Though the latter portion of the time that I played NS, I've stopped going to random pubs unless the ones I usually play on are empty so my personal experience gathering is probably out of date. I'll just say from my earlier personal experience, which is definately not the entire public scene.
Just what everyone needed: A thread in which both sides explain to each other that they are "What's wrong with NS." (Ever noticed how people never note what's right with a given thing?)
I'll close this under the 'no flames' rule. In the end, this is a case of 'To each his own.' Critizising others for their gaming attitude won't help you.
Comments
If I need all that to be the best of the best, it's not worth it. I don't have 400$ for a better video card and 800$ for a new pc. I have a life and I have to build it and for a family too. And if I get negetive scores too often, I begin to feel bad about myself thinking I should be smarter etc. That usually makes me break stuff or beat myself up... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<span style='color:white'>Be nice.</span>
Do you REALLY think that competitive play for online games consists of not having a life, spending thousands of dollars on a computer, not having girlfriends, and not spending time with your family? You need about as much time as you spend pubbing, if not LESS to play for a clan. Skill comes from practice, and practice takes time. You don't need to dedicate your life to it.. it's a damn game. Not a single excellent player you ever come across dedicates their life to this game, it's just a horrible stigma that you guys put in the community that makes people think that. The only people that even remotely have the right to not have a life and play a game for one, are those who get payed to do it, and nobody in the NS community does that.
You all need to get your priorities straight, it's just a game.
I see cri. - I leave the game.
I see exi. - I leave the game.
The line between top clan members and hackers is incredibly thin - I am of the opinion that the top clan members use hacks on pub servers - just to **** everyone off. Not only that, but they always clan stack.
No, clanners deserve the reputation that they get. Your plea to revive the competitive community is falling on deaf ears. I'm standing around with the nails ready to put it in its coffin. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then you get to put up with us in your pubs day in and day out, end of story. We no longer get to scrim eachother and the competitive community is dead. Now we all go to your favorite public servers and completely obliterate all of the little newbies, and there is absolutely NOTHING you can do about it, except whine, cry, ****, moan, what have you, and it will all be YOUR fault for having not kept us out of your public server.
Given 4 months, the pub scene will be swarming with the death of the competitive community and all of its veterens. I'll see you on the flip side then mate :>.
Now see, this is the kind of attitude clanners need to have to heal the rift between the clan scene and the pub scene.
<!--QuoteBegin-pubber+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (pubber)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->hmm, my impression of clans...
I see cri. - I leave the game.
I see exi. - I leave the game.
The line between top clan members and hackers is incredibly thin - I am of the opinion that the top clan members use hacks on pub servers - just to **** everyone off. Not only that, but they always clan stack.
No, clanners deserve the reputation that they get. Your plea to revive the competitive community is falling on deaf ears. I'm standing around with the nails ready to put it in its coffin.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And this is exactly what we DON'T need from pubbers. This has to be the first thread in a long while that I've seen the "moral high ground" being occupied by clanners <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I think I might join a clan....I know I can't make one, not enough friends who care enough about NS/clans to really make one....been playing pubs for more than a year now, you'd think I would've joined a clan somewhere along the line. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I see cri. - I leave the game.
I see exi. - I leave the game.
The line between top clan members and hackers is incredibly thin - I am of the opinion that the top clan members use hacks on pub servers - just to **** everyone off. Not only that, but they always clan stack.
No, clanners deserve the reputation that they get. Your plea to revive the competitive community is falling on deaf ears. I'm standing around with the nails ready to put it in its coffin. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is why the NS Community is the way it is. Seems like most pubbers have this sort of mentality, whether they maliciously mean it or are just uniformed about it. And what's worse is a lot of public server admins also have this mentality as well. I remember when #cri.ogenics first recruited me into #cri. We use to play together a lot when NS came out, and when I created a [NS4Life] club, it was a lot of fun but then after a time people went their separate ways. Some stayed in NS pubs, some like crio went into competitive NS, I strayed back to cal-m CS. When I returned to NS, crio invited me to join #cri, I was a little reluctant at first but I finally agreed and I'm very glad that I agreed. It opened my eyes to so many new concepts in NS, teamwork that was never seen in public play, the skill level difference was astonishing. I went from 'pubstar' to 'newb' overnight and honestly, it was very refreshing, kinda like when NS first came out. However, the drawback was the community. One day I was a regular NS Player, the next, once I slip on the tag, I'm this evil doer out to conquer the world with my h4x/scripts, being banned from a particular server the first day with the message 'You can't spell scripts without cri'.
I don't blame people like Pepe Muffassa because I've seen it a lot in Counter-Strike. It was a little big similar in that community too but definately not as blatant. When you play around the cal-m zone and go to practice your aiming and reaction time on pubs, you end up getting banned unless the people know you. The reason is there are always people out there like Pepe Muffassa who thinks that there is no way someone can have so much more skill than him. It's probably hard for him to fathom how such skilled players could do certain things in NS because he himself never thought about doing such maneuvers and the servers he play on don't have people of that caliber. Then there is pride, it's hard and I will admit, even for me to think that someone would be way better at me in a game that I think I am really good at.
However, this could be remedied and should be remedied but it requries effort from both communities. Zunni and company are already trying to bring both communities together, by providing information about CAL, HLTV on big matches so people can look in on the 'other side' of NS without being directly affected. I have to say the competitive community has gotten better too attitudewise, yes there are still egos out there but there will always be egos. But with Forlorn and Porcha gone (those two were major attitude problems in my opinion even though they did know what they were talking about most of the time, not all), the competitive community is improving and constantly trying to improve. Just that sometimes people can be viewed as an elitist or an egomaniac is because they are passionate about the game and doesn't want to see NS go down the drain.
The public community also has to make an attempt at this reconciliation though many stated they don't care about the competitive community and won't try, that is of course their decision. They need to keep an open mind about stuff like scripts, tactics, and skill. I am flattered by Pepe Muffassa's opinions, as many are if they are accused of 'hacking', and that's what it is, his opinion. I can try to convince him that no, the top NS clans don't hack, but it's up to him to believe it or not.
Lastly, clan stacking. Yes it's been done, and it probably will be done more. Clan stacking is like stacking with your friends, whether they are all in a clan or not. Many people have stated that this game is more fun with well oiled teamwork, that's why clans stack, that's why friends stack. They are use to each other's playing style and enjoy the game more together. Why risk joining a team where no one works together and everyone has a miserable time? It's true it might ruin games, but everyone deserves to have fun. Instead of being turned off once you see a team that is stacked, why not try harder to win, to improve your own skill level, to observe how the other team plays so you yourself can get better. No one can increase their playing skill if in their mind they are already the best and people who are better only hack/script/stack/grief.
Just like there are clanners out there who act like immature jerks with a pickle up an uncomfortable body oriface (you can choose which one) there are pubbers who can be misinformed and act "jerkish" as well. Understand most of the pub community, doesn't know/care about clans. So generalizing in both cases is incorrect. Think about this, 1 guy talking smack on a server of 16 players amounts to 6% of those players.. Hardly a majority. Best thing to do iis to throw up a reference to #nslearn or here (ns.com) and let those who want to learn more about competitve play do so.
The rest I agree with 100%
Just like there are clanners out there who act like immature jerks with a pickle up an uncomfortable body oriface (you can choose which one) there are pubbers who can be misinformed and act "jerkish" as well. Understand most of the pub community, doesn't know/care about clans. So generalizing in both cases is incorrect. Think about this, 1 guy talking smack on a server of 16 players amounts to 6% of those players.. Hardly a majority. Best thing to do iis to throw up a reference to #nslearn or here (ns.com) and let those who want to learn more about competitve play do so.
The rest I agree with 100% <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I guess it's just our experience that is different in the public scene but I will defer to your reasoning. I should've been more clear that from my own past experience, about 70% of the random public servers I've visited have kicked/banned/some other abuse from its admins or regular community. Though the latter portion of the time that I played NS, I've stopped going to random pubs unless the ones I usually play on are empty so my personal experience gathering is probably out of date. I'll just say from my earlier personal experience, which is definately not the entire public scene.
I'll close this under the 'no flames' rule. In the end, this is a case of 'To each his own.' Critizising others for their gaming attitude won't help you.