Hallucinogens's Effects?
kida
Join Date: 2003-02-20 Member: 13778Members
Join Date: 2003-02-20 Member: 13778Members
in Discussions
<div class="IPBDescription">Molecular or personal?</div> <b>This is not an advocation of them.</b>
I took this question from another forum board...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The question: Is the effect that hallucinogenic drugs have on humans created by the molecular interactions themselves, or rather the expectations, past experiences, and/or personal beliefs?
Going further, do you think the actual chemical process creates the specific visuals seen (such as the geometric shapes and the heightening of the visual sense)? Or is it probably more because of what the person was expecting to experience from what they have heard. Or maybe, in the case of DMT, figures or symbols from their past come as hallucinations during the trip.
Any thoughts...? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would like to understand more about the pineal gland, which is supposed to affect our perception of time.
I took this question from another forum board...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The question: Is the effect that hallucinogenic drugs have on humans created by the molecular interactions themselves, or rather the expectations, past experiences, and/or personal beliefs?
Going further, do you think the actual chemical process creates the specific visuals seen (such as the geometric shapes and the heightening of the visual sense)? Or is it probably more because of what the person was expecting to experience from what they have heard. Or maybe, in the case of DMT, figures or symbols from their past come as hallucinations during the trip.
Any thoughts...? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would like to understand more about the pineal gland, which is supposed to affect our perception of time.
Comments
The hallucinogenic effects are taken from our fantasy, which is a sorta mold of chopped up sensical input.
So, both. Incurred by the drugs, with your mind as a variable and a randomness factor I guess. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
*only theory, I do not claim to know what Im talking about.
Now I know that someone said "there are documented cases of LSD flashbacks." You're right, but they're caused by a bad trip that effects them psychologically. It's the same syndrome that veterans many times have. I forget the name of it, so someone can give the name of it for me at some other time.
Now I know that someone said "there are documented cases of LSD flashbacks." You're right, but they're caused by a bad trip that effects them psychologically. It's the same syndrome that veterans many times have. I forget the name of it, so someone can give the name of it for me at some other time. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Post-traumatic stress disorder?
While clearly taking the substance causes some form of reaction to cause whatever effects are felt, what the specific effects are seems to be more dependent on the person than the drug.
As an aside, while I would not recomend anyone trying any drug, if you are planning on taking a hallucenogen, defiantly resaerch it first. Erowid Vault is a great resource for information, from individual experianaces, to the legality of the substances (yes there are legal hallucinogens, but these are by no means safer; they are often extermly powerful and as such the potential risks are serious (mainly from lack of control while on them and pyschological complications of unplesant trips, though unlike LSD you can o.d. on some hallucinogens), to scientific research to guidelines for "safe" doses.
However, your expectations going into it, things that have been on your mind recently, environment around you - these all shape the experience too.
So to answer your question: "yes".
Now I know that someone said "there are documented cases of LSD flashbacks." You're right, but they're caused by a bad trip that effects them psychologically. It's the same syndrome that veterans many times have. I forget the name of it, so someone can give the name of it for me at some other time. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Shell Shock.
<!--QuoteBegin-Terence McKenna - - (Psilocybin and the Sands of Time+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Terence McKenna - - (Psilocybin and the Sands of Time)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->...and in search for answers people have feared to place
themselves on the line and to actually wrestle with life and
death out there in those strange, bardo-like dimensions, not
realizing that there is no other way to win true knowledge...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I understand that most of the hallucinogenic effects from substances such as mushrooms, lsd, morning glory, and etc.., are motivated mostly by the user's perceptions; but their is another drug, which they consider the god of all hallucinogens, called dmt.
Dmt causes one to bounce out of this dimension into another where things are indescribable to words...
You are handed objects that are out of this world, like seeing a new color for instance. Nothing much these days really truly astounds us, which we can all probably agree, except that this is suppose to be like given an extra-terrestrial object from little tykes and elves, which is what you see:
<i>mind-fusing interscope of perceptions, residual objects from a universe that parallels on ours, perhaps even strongly connected.</i>
Now it is assumed, i think even proved that dmt (located in our pineal gland) is expirated from our bodies after death. There are of course different methods of looking at our world with eyes that we cannot normally consist to do; but helped with substances that should not be feared but embraced, time can be transcended - we become the stars that keep burning so brightly - the last lights to fade into the rising sun...the music on our tongues become us; our shadows become dust... we are one: the voices crying in this desert, weeping...
Just impossible to describe...
Incidently, was the new colour some sort of purple-green? That would be a badass colour.
Hmm...this is really interesting to me. The pineal gland was often thought to be related to concepts like the third eye, innervision, and pyschic powers.
Modern science seems to belive that it has somethign to do with the internal clock.
And there is an idea out there, as anyone who has seen Waking Life (great movie, if you haven't) will know, that upon death, your brian enters a dream-like state, that could therorecticaly subjectivly last forever, given the variability of time in dreams, a form of immortality, or afterlife.
It seems to me that this chemical might connect all these ideas.
It also is intriguing on another level. I'm taking a couse in epistomology (the philosphy of thought), much of which, has thus far been creating a gap betweent he real world and what we experiance. Its all sorts of fun, using probability theroy to prove that your sense experiance are beliefs, not evidence, and the implcations that raises. But not to get side tracked, the primary point of this class is that the world we experiance, and therefor the knowelge we are able to glean from it, <b>is not real</b>. Or prehaps a more accurate way of putting it is that what we experiance is not, cannot be, entirely accurate to the way the world truely is.
With that sort of context, the idea of being able to "see the world thru diffrent eyes" opens up vast new doors to knowelge, and understanding the way the world really is.
There is something to that - and alot of truth to the human mind being the most interesting place you could possibly explore. A few footnotes though, not just out of political correctness and to correspond with the "Drugs are bad, m'kay?" line, but as simply sound advice :
Exploration of the psyche isn't limited to substance (ab)use, its not the only way to see things you've never seen before <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> And more importantly : <b>Substances you use, and experiences you have, leave permanent marks.</b> This doesn't have to be negative, it doesn't have to be a strong mark either depending on your type of trip and substance - but as you're well aware, anything you do shapes your psyche. To take an extreme example, a strong MDMA trip could have your personality turn 180 for the rest of your life. On a more trivial note, even continued nicotine use can seriously mold you.
Just something to keep in mind. I don't like the attempts at justifying drug use by saying there will definitely be no lasting effects. There will be lasting effects, and you should at least know that when you decide wether and with whom to try anything.
Before I forget it, on a physiological note you guys are correct - many drugs work by releasing chemicals held by the body, instead of directly stimulating the brain. Substances ingested/inserted/etc are often only triggers for more complex chemical reactions. But I fail to see how thats relevant, except for some problems with repeat usage.
the book, for anyone interested, is called "DMT: The Spirit Molecule". I'ts got a cool Alex Grey cover picture, and documents an experiementation on the effects of DMT intravenously over many different patients, giving their accounts of their trips etc.
Exploration of the psyche isn't limited to substance (ab)use, its not the only way to see things you've never seen before <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> And more importantly : <b>Substances you use, and experiences you have, leave permanent marks.</b> This doesn't have to be negative, it doesn't have to be a strong mark either depending on your type of trip and substance - but as you're well aware, anything you do shapes your psyche. To take an extreme example, a strong MDMA trip could have your personality turn 180 for the rest of your life. On a more trivial note, even continued nicotine use can seriously mold you.
Just something to keep in mind. I don't like the attempts at justifying drug use by saying there will definitely be no lasting effects. There will be lasting effects, and you should at least know that when you decide wether and with whom to try anything.
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I couldn't have said it better myself. Always keep this in mind. I've been using, and around people whom use these substances for several years now, and they definatly do have an effect on who you are, both while you are on them, and afterwards.
I have a whole list of horror stories of things that have happened to us because of our usage, as well as a list of "good" effects.
The bottom line is, as you said, think long and hard about doing any drug beforehand, and reasearch the possible effect throughly. Also be careful where you get it from. I had a friend who only ever smoked weed, and she bought a bag from someone she didn't know well one time. It was spiked with what she thinks was probably PCP. Just another thing to keep in mind.
This is very relevant. Although physiologically, psychoactive substances may not cause any long-term physical damage, what you guys have been saying pretty much sums up what i think too: the negative notes that they can produce.
Of course they are very different from stimulants and whatnot, but i find that if you have a certain mindsent, a drug which is suppose to be used for spiritual and personal enlightnment, such as psilocybe mushrooms, can be very emotionally addicting. The world just doesn't seem to be as worthwhile as it did.
Anyways, the usual saying is that if you expect a certain thing, and if you expect to only do these "things" with a "let's get messed up and have fun" mindset...truly expect to have your arse handed down to you. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
But honestly, I can foresee a future with off-the-counter drugs with an encompassing effect of all known drugs, but not harmful to the body. It would be a way of maintaining and controlling the human desire, and could possibly reduce less violence; kind of like "a brave new world."
Ice. I don't think we are alowed to discuss that on these forums. If you have a question like that personal message me or someone else.
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I never thought I'd ever hear of something that sounds so good ralted to A brave New World.......ever.... <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Not as far as i know. Most of the time people just dont know how to do it right.
Weed-worked the first time
Salvia(hallucingenic)-worked (amazingly) first time
Shrooms(hallucingenic)-worked first time but not well
Not as far as i know. Most of the time people just dont know how to do it right.
Weed-worked the first time
Salvia(hallucingenic)-worked (amazingly) first time
Shrooms(hallucingenic)-worked first time but not well <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It was my understanding that the idea that you don't get stoned the first time comes from people not reconizing the effects of the drug. If your somehow expecting some huge subjectivly-profound high from weed (think of how its portrayed in movies, like Animal House ..."our planet could be like an atom under some giant's fingernail.....whoooa"), you might not reconize the relaxation feeling that weed actualy gives as a high.
And yeah, I think we've all seen people do stupid things like that....back in scouts these two kids from another troop smoked poison ivy thinking it was weed....hehehe....I feel so bad laughing, they both ended up in the hosptial, nearly died, but its so funny...if anyone should know what posion ivy is, and not to smoke it, it should be a boy scout, its like the first thing I was taught.....