ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
Convince more people from Asia to play NS <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-gtccold+Jan 31 2005, 06:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (gtccold @ Jan 31 2005, 06:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Just give me a call and I'll destroy all your precious marines with useless toys. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> And be slaughtered by the one's not playing with dolls. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Well, hive2 isn't exactly the environment I'm looking advice for right now cuz I can hand out HMGers before the second hive starts going up. During the first 3-4 minutes, my marines can usually expand and cap at least 5 nodes without too much trouble due to skulks being weak.
Sending Fades to deal with HMGers is really hard because HMGs really tear thru fades quickly.
ambushing sounds like a really good idea, and using silence is good too, but pubbers typically never want anything but DCs <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Harassing base sounds good, unless the comm leaves one man to base (with a HMG of course) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> hehe
Well its difficult to say that hmgs will completely own fades because sometimes in pubs, you might end up with horrible marines that can't even shoot something standing still <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->. Nevertheless, the hmg is the deadliest early game weapon in the hands of a pro, even without weapons 1. Still, this is dependent on factors like alien teamwork, number of upgrades they have vs marine ups, nodes etc etc..
Absolutely res domination. If they never get the nodes you just had a commadner waste that res on the AA when he could have gotten weapons upgrades for the fades that will be coming soon. If you dominate the res nodes you have at least one hive open and a few RTS so you'll be getting even more fades and a second hive.
The counter to everything is owning hte map. Own the map and win, don't own it and lose.
As far as combatting an already existing HMG force at the 4 minute mark ... good luck. Ummm, silence might work if the aliens ahve team work and pateience (usually lacking both) SCs seem abd because you will have armor1.
Personally, when I comm I never rush AA ... thinking about this for a second ... LMGs reload much faster, and a skulk takes nine shots to kill whereas a HMG is four (maybe five) assuming no upgrades (most went to RTS, AA, HMGs, armor1, phase tech I'm hoping). LMGs fire faster meaning that if you are on the skulk you really need hte equivalent of seven HMG shots in LMG terms. So we have seven versus four. THis is just me but I would rather have as many upgrades as possible and hit the AA button when I see my first fade ( waste rest of res on shotties, which deter most fades). Armor1, weapons2, phase tech marines are better in the early-mid game than are armor1 marines with HMGs. HMGs is just over kill until you've accessed the skill of the fade(s) and you might encounter that onos ****. If the alien team sucks you just wasted a ton of res on weak marine with 20 res in their hands instead of strong marines with very little res in their hands. Just my opinion ...
HMGs > everything the khaara can throw at them. Quick AA is definately nothing to laugh at... my the time AA is upgraded you'll be at 2 weapons and 1 armor upgrade. Just throw out some welders and have your HMGers rip the alien team apart...
[Edit] this has of course nothing to do with how to counter HMGs, but rather that the fact that HMGs >> LMGs with an extra upgrade level or two was disputed.
it'll be funny if the hmg were as accurate as the pistol tho <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
HMG on pistol acurace... Can you say gg. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Problem with early hmg is that you can have 5 of em covering a gl then just walk in the hive and sit in the corner while the gl takes it. The aliens can't do a dam thing.
Sometimes when I com I like to do a heavy weapons rush, most of the time the aliens are caught off guard and are destroyed.
Then there are the times when they have a few good fades and lerks working together with the skulks and 150 res goes down the drain, thank god aliens never work together ^_^b
even if i do have the res to give every person an hmg and a few welders, i always give a few shotguns to go with it. i just hate it when my marines get in umbra and they all die so <i>so</i> fast.
<!--QuoteBegin-j3st+Feb 6 2005, 11:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (j3st @ Feb 6 2005, 11:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> even if i do have the res to give every person an hmg and a few welders, i always give a few shotguns to go with it. i just hate it when my marines get in umbra and they all die so <i>so</i> fast. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Umbra affects shotguns too.
<!--QuoteBegin-im lost+Feb 8 2005, 03:04 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (im lost @ Feb 8 2005, 03:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Umbra doesn't affect gl's, so that is what you should give your marines if you want a counter to umbra. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Something new for me ^^.
As stated before,
<b><u><span style='color:red'>KILL THE AA</span></u></b>,
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
hehe.. AA is the in 90% of my comm games the sole reason why I beacon. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
General Rules: Always have at least 1 skulk on rt destruction duty. No matter what happens, just take down RTs. Too many games marine RTs stay untouched and give them res dominance.
Rush marine base. They can't be everywhere at once. Prioritise AA, IPs, Obs in the early game.
Keep your RTs alive. You can get hives and fades that much quicker.
Get at most 1 decent lerk. That gas breaks up concentrated marines and makes it that much easier for skulks.
---
Problem caused by big games: Marines CAN be everywhere at once. At hive sieging, whilst still capping / defending RTs at far end of map, AND at base defending.
Skulks meet more marines. 3-4 skulks usually rush 1-2 marines, and leave the other 2 marines hanging behind for a good old fashioned turkey shoot.
---
That means to achieve tasks that just 1 skulk could have done in a small game, you need a core of 2-3 players who can focus on such tasks like destroying the AA and RTs, since a single marine shouldn't be able to stop them.
---
Once HMGs are in the field, don't rush them head on as a fade. Wait for skulks to engage, preferably in a cloud of gas, and whilst they are distracted, blink from behind and kill 1-2 marines.
The moment marines start shooting at you, DO NOT STAY. JUST FLEE.
If you move in first, then focus totally on dodging. As the marines try to blast you into your constituent bacterium, the skulks can come in and chew them up.
---
HMG does 16 or 18 damage. Not 20. Was purposely reduced from 20 as it was insane at 20.
<!--QuoteBegin-DC Darkling+Feb 8 2005, 11:09 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DC Darkling @ Feb 8 2005, 11:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> hehe.. AA is the in 90% of my comm games the sole reason why I beacon. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You it really is the most problematic building. People are wastin 99% their time on it, It goes down on 3 focus-swipes, no one cant mine it even if you tell and those damn bacons aren`t so funny when you have fade fixated in AA. Either you put the mines/weld it alone or scream for it.
TheAdjHe demanded a cool forum title of some type.Join Date: 2004-05-03Member: 28436Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-Church+Jan 31 2005, 05:51 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Church @ Jan 31 2005, 05:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Good strategy. So what do you do if there is a marine guarding base? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> He'll eventually be vulnerable and you drop him. Killing at least one marine a run into MS will alert the comm or the team and they'll come scrambling back to base to defend it. It's the ultimate in delaying tactics.
Comments
And be slaughtered by the one's not playing with dolls. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Well, hive2 isn't exactly the environment I'm looking advice for right now cuz I can hand out HMGers before the second hive starts going up. During the first 3-4 minutes, my marines can usually expand and cap at least 5 nodes without too much trouble due to skulks being weak.
Sending Fades to deal with HMGers is really hard because HMGs really tear thru fades quickly.
ambushing sounds like a really good idea, and using silence is good too, but pubbers typically never want anything but DCs <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Harassing base sounds good, unless the comm leaves one man to base (with a HMG of course) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
hehe
Well its difficult to say that hmgs will completely own fades because sometimes in pubs, you might end up with horrible marines that can't even shoot something standing still <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->. Nevertheless, the hmg is the deadliest early game weapon in the hands of a pro, even without weapons 1. Still, this is dependent on factors like alien teamwork, number of upgrades they have vs marine ups, nodes etc etc..
The counter to everything is owning hte map. Own the map and win, don't own it and lose.
As far as combatting an already existing HMG force at the 4 minute mark ... good luck. Ummm, silence might work if the aliens ahve team work and pateience (usually lacking both) SCs seem abd because you will have armor1.
Personally, when I comm I never rush AA ... thinking about this for a second ... LMGs reload much faster, and a skulk takes nine shots to kill whereas a HMG is four (maybe five) assuming no upgrades (most went to RTS, AA, HMGs, armor1, phase tech I'm hoping). LMGs fire faster meaning that if you are on the skulk you really need hte equivalent of seven HMG shots in LMG terms. So we have seven versus four. THis is just me but I would rather have as many upgrades as possible and hit the AA button when I see my first fade ( waste rest of res on shotties, which deter most fades). Armor1, weapons2, phase tech marines are better in the early-mid game than are armor1 marines with HMGs. HMGs is just over kill until you've accessed the skill of the fade(s) and you might encounter that onos ****. If the alien team sucks you just wasted a ton of res on weak marine with 20 res in their hands instead of strong marines with very little res in their hands. Just my opinion ...
[Edit] this has of course nothing to do with how to counter HMGs, but rather that the fact that HMGs >> LMGs with an extra upgrade level or two was disputed.
yesyes.. pistol is our HMG in small size. \o/
(poor skulks)
even though one could make up all kinds of counter-rush strategies involving sc's, mc's, lerks... etc.
Then there are the times when they have a few good fades and lerks working together with the skulks and 150 res goes down the drain, thank god aliens never work together ^_^b
Umbra affects shotguns too.
Something new for me ^^.
As stated before,
<b><u><span style='color:red'>KILL THE AA</span></u></b>,
this kills the whole marine team and economy.
Always have at least 1 skulk on rt destruction duty. No matter what happens, just take down RTs. Too many games marine RTs stay untouched and give them res dominance.
Rush marine base. They can't be everywhere at once. Prioritise AA, IPs, Obs in the early game.
Keep your RTs alive. You can get hives and fades that much quicker.
Get at most 1 decent lerk. That gas breaks up concentrated marines and makes it that much easier for skulks.
---
Problem caused by big games:
Marines CAN be everywhere at once. At hive sieging, whilst still capping / defending RTs at far end of map, AND at base defending.
Skulks meet more marines. 3-4 skulks usually rush 1-2 marines, and leave the other 2 marines hanging behind for a good old fashioned turkey shoot.
---
That means to achieve tasks that just 1 skulk could have done in a small game, you need a core of 2-3 players who can focus on such tasks like destroying the AA and RTs, since a single marine shouldn't be able to stop them.
---
Once HMGs are in the field, don't rush them head on as a fade. Wait for skulks to engage, preferably in a cloud of gas, and whilst they are distracted, blink from behind and kill 1-2 marines.
The moment marines start shooting at you, DO NOT STAY. JUST FLEE.
If you move in first, then focus totally on dodging. As the marines try to blast you into your constituent bacterium, the skulks can come in and chew them up.
---
HMG does 16 or 18 damage. Not 20. Was purposely reduced from 20 as it was insane at 20.
You it really is the most problematic building. People are wastin 99% their time on it, It goes down on 3 focus-swipes, no one cant mine it even if you tell and those damn bacons aren`t so funny when you have fade fixated in AA. Either you put the mines/weld it alone or scream for it.
besides, if it keeps getting attacked we put a rine as guard there, now don't we
He'll eventually be vulnerable and you drop him. Killing at least one marine a run into MS will alert the comm or the team and they'll come scrambling back to base to defend it. It's the ultimate in delaying tactics.
Just do the same as usual, keep their res down, and ambush, fades stay out of combat with >2 marines with hmgs.
HMG is an upgrade, you dont change strategy just because the marines got armour2 rather than weapons2 do you ?
HMG is the ultimate marine weapon, there is no specific counter.