<!--QuoteBegin-WaterBoy+Jan 29 2005, 01:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (WaterBoy @ Jan 29 2005, 01:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Drfuzzy+Jan 28 2005, 09:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Drfuzzy @ Jan 28 2005, 09:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Dual processors = bye bye good games. Nobody likes to code for anything with complex processors (dreamcast, anyone?) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> thats funny, because the ps2 was complicated to code for, and im playing the best online console game right now (socom2) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Really? Because I heard <a href='http://www.bungie.net/stats/' target='_blank'>this</a> one game has almost half a million unique players per day.
Best I can find for Socom 2: 100,000 (which is probably off, since it's from a thread of Socom 2 fanboy-type-people talking about cheating - but that's what I'm using <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> ).
This console release will be strange, because it could really go to any of the 3, depending on loyalty, release time, features, price and projected games.
I say well all buy whichever one has the least EA support <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> .
KungFuSquirrelBasher of MuttonsJoin Date: 2002-01-26Member: 103Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
You know what, I'm probably going to get all 3. Not necessarily right away, but over time I'm sure I will. I mean, you know there's going to be great games on all 3. Multi-platform releases will still be tricky to decide which to buy, but there will be such a wide selection available that odds are highly unlikely any one console will fall short.
Especially once a system gets to the 100-150 range where the current gen is now, it only takes a handful of games for me to see it as worth getting (only took 7 to convince me to get a PS2 - Ratchet, Jak, and Katamari. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> oh, and Ico. And a few others I've since taken interest in).
I imagine it's still going to be cheaper to get all 3 of these next-gen platforms, even at release, than a top-spec new computer <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->please, if you're going to say things like that get it right. Saturn was the dual-cpu system. And not a bad system i might add. I still occaisionally play my saturn. Daytona USA, Virtua Cop, Sonic R.. c'mon. great games.
But you're right. that's one of the reasons it' feel into the abyss.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unfortunatly it wasn't the main reason for the saturn's demise. The main reason was that it was originally designed to be a 2d powerhouse. Unfortunatly for them, Sony, looking to make something out of the SNES-CD venture, decided to design the playstation for 3d. Thus it was that the saturn was on the wrong side of a divide in console gaming history.
However, any collector looking for some good stuff should look at the saturn. It has some amazing games (most of them 2d).
I've never been able to afford to buy all the systems on the market (though I was able to get an N64 and a playstation, and a dreamcast and a gamecube if you count those as being in teh same generation), and I doubt this will be the year I can manage it. Besides, I wouldn't own an X-Box if they payed me to play it. So, being a Nintendo fanboy and all, my money will almost certainly be going to the Revolution.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This console release will be strange, because it could really go to any of the 3, depending on loyalty, release time, features, price and projected games.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think the Revolution has the disadvantage in this one. Between MS and Sony, I give Sony the advantage for having been in the market for slgihtly longer, and having 2 very successfull generations in a row. The PS3 may sell a bunch based on that alone. The next MS system, however, is kind of up in the air. A new Halo game would probably sell alot, but I still doubt it will be as popular as the PS3. The revolution is also disadvantaged in that it will probably not play HD-DVD movies. Or any movies for that matter. Remember that the GC didn't because Nintend believed that their system was for playing games, not some sort of home media center. I agree whole heartedly, but many don't.
It is also unfortunate that Nintendo seems to have lost its cool. I attribute this to the whole "Nintendo makes kiddie games" idocy. Aparently, unless your game is filled with gore and sex, its a kiddie game. But I digress....
Anyways, in summary my prediction for the finishing order for the next generation of consoles will be: Sony PS3 MS X-Box Next Nintendo Revolution
Alcapwn"War is the science of destruction" - John AbbotJoin Date: 2003-06-21Member: 17590Members
<!--QuoteBegin-UltimaGecko+Jan 29 2005, 02:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (UltimaGecko @ Jan 29 2005, 02:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-WaterBoy+Jan 29 2005, 01:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (WaterBoy @ Jan 29 2005, 01:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Drfuzzy+Jan 28 2005, 09:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Drfuzzy @ Jan 28 2005, 09:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Dual processors = bye bye good games. Nobody likes to code for anything with complex processors (dreamcast, anyone?) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> thats funny, because the ps2 was complicated to code for, and im playing the best online console game right now (socom2) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Really? Because I heard <a href='http://www.bungie.net/stats/' target='_blank'>this</a> one game has almost half a million unique players per day.
Best I can find for Socom 2: 100,000 (which is probably off, since it's from a thread of Socom 2 fanboy-type-people talking about cheating - but that's what I'm using <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> ).
This console release will be strange, because it could really go to any of the 3, depending on loyalty, release time, features, price and projected games.
I say well all buy whichever one has the least EA support <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> . <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I said best, not most popular. Plus halo2 is crap. Dont see whats so great about it... i dont want to see oompa loompa's running around with lazer pistols speaking in...english (WTH?!?!?)
Nintendo's style of creativity over raw power in a console has always appealed to me. Xbox-Next and PS3 are just upgrades of the Xbox and Ps2 (hence the oh-so inventive names) but the revolution will be a new console altogether
<!--QuoteBegin-WaterBoy+Jan 29 2005, 02:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (WaterBoy @ Jan 29 2005, 02:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-UltimaGecko+Jan 29 2005, 02:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (UltimaGecko @ Jan 29 2005, 02:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-WaterBoy+Jan 29 2005, 01:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (WaterBoy @ Jan 29 2005, 01:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Drfuzzy+Jan 28 2005, 09:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Drfuzzy @ Jan 28 2005, 09:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Dual processors = bye bye good games. Nobody likes to code for anything with complex processors (dreamcast, anyone?) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> thats funny, because the ps2 was complicated to code for, and im playing the best online console game right now (socom2) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Really? Because I heard <a href='http://www.bungie.net/stats/' target='_blank'>this</a> one game has almost half a million unique players per day.
Best I can find for Socom 2: 100,000 (which is probably off, since it's from a thread of Socom 2 fanboy-type-people talking about cheating - but that's what I'm using <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> ).
This console release will be strange, because it could really go to any of the 3, depending on loyalty, release time, features, price and projected games.
I say well all buy whichever one has the least EA support <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> . <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I said best, not most popular. Plus halo2 is crap. Dont see whats so great about it... i dont want to see oompa loompa's running around with lazer pistols speaking in...english (WTH?!?!?) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Because that's what multiplayer is, singleplayer.
...Oh, wait. It's not.
[I'm not sure how it has so many unique players either, I didn't play it that much when I did have Xbox Live...unless you're making custom games it gets boring pretty quick.]
<!--QuoteBegin-WaterBoy+Jan 29 2005, 07:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (WaterBoy @ Jan 29 2005, 07:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-UltimaGecko+Jan 29 2005, 02:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (UltimaGecko @ Jan 29 2005, 02:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-WaterBoy+Jan 29 2005, 01:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (WaterBoy @ Jan 29 2005, 01:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Drfuzzy+Jan 28 2005, 09:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Drfuzzy @ Jan 28 2005, 09:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Dual processors = bye bye good games. Nobody likes to code for anything with complex processors (dreamcast, anyone?) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> thats funny, because the ps2 was complicated to code for, and im playing the best online console game right now (socom2) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Really? Because I heard <a href='http://www.bungie.net/stats/' target='_blank'>this</a> one game has almost half a million unique players per day.
Best I can find for Socom 2: 100,000 (which is probably off, since it's from a thread of Socom 2 fanboy-type-people talking about cheating - but that's what I'm using <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> ).
This console release will be strange, because it could really go to any of the 3, depending on loyalty, release time, features, price and projected games.
I say well all buy whichever one has the least EA support <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> . <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I said best, not most popular. Plus halo2 is crap. Dont see whats so great about it... i dont want to see oompa loompa's running around with lazer pistols speaking in...english (WTH?!?!?)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Don't be so hopelessly stupid. There's no empirical measure of 'best' on any subjective media, but if we're going to try anyway, <a href='http://www.gamerankings.com/' target='_blank'>Halo 2 received higher review scores.</a> You cannot call Socom 2 the "best online console game," just like I can't say PSO is. You also cannot dismiss Halo 2 as crap. TRY AGAIN.
Personally, I find that the next Nintendo console will make or break them. The GameCube, sadly, is total crap. There have barely been any good games out for it, and I've been constantly dissapointed. I remember Nintendo saying in early 2001 how the GameCube would have awesome online gaming and everything, and to this day (correct me if I'm wrong) there are only <b>2</b> online games for gamecube. Both require a monthly fee. Then, combine all of that with Luigi's Mansion, Super Mario Sunshine, and the absolutely retardedly done Zelda game, and you've got a losing system. Connectivity between the GC and GBA is also a ripoff.
<!--QuoteBegin-Invader Scoot+Jan 29 2005, 10:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Invader Scoot @ Jan 29 2005, 10:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Personally, I find that the next Nintendo console will make or break them. The GameCube, sadly, is total crap. There have barely been any good games out for it, and I've been constantly dissapointed. I remember Nintendo saying in early 2001 how the GameCube would have awesome online gaming and everything, and to this day (correct me if I'm wrong) there are only <b>2</b> online games for gamecube. Both require a monthly fee. Then, combine all of that with Luigi's Mansion, Super Mario Sunshine, and the absolutely retardedly done Zelda game, and you've got a losing system. Connectivity between the GC and GBA is also a ripoff. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well it could be worse.
Are you kidding? N64 had all the games. Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, Conker's Bad Fur Day, Super Mario 64, Super Smash Brothers, Zelda: Ocarina of Time... In my eyes, the N64 was the best system.
<!--QuoteBegin-esuna+Jan 29 2005, 05:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (esuna @ Jan 29 2005, 05:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Invader Scoot+Jan 29 2005, 10:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Invader Scoot @ Jan 29 2005, 10:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Personally, I find that the next Nintendo console will make or break them. The GameCube, sadly, is total crap. There have barely been any good games out for it, and I've been constantly dissapointed. I remember Nintendo saying in early 2001 how the GameCube would have awesome online gaming and everything, and to this day (correct me if I'm wrong) there are only <b>2</b> online games for gamecube. Both require a monthly fee. Then, combine all of that with Luigi's Mansion, Super Mario Sunshine, and the absolutely retardedly done Zelda game, and you've got a losing system. Connectivity between the GC and GBA is also a ripoff. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well it could be worse.
<img src='http://www.pacs-portal.co.uk/Emulators/images/N64.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> What the hell do you mean retardedly done zelda.
Cell shading. It completely ruined the game really. Remember the E3 demo for Zelda? A game like that would have been incredible, yet Nintendo whips around and pulls off one of the dumbest stunts ever. The new Zelda that's coming out is gonna be using realistic graphics though, which will definitely be much better.
<!--QuoteBegin-Invader Scoot+Jan 29 2005, 11:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Invader Scoot @ Jan 29 2005, 11:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The new Zelda that's coming out is gonna be using realistic graphics though, which will definitely be much better. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Because that's what's important!
<!--QuoteBegin-Flint Paper+Jan 29 2005, 05:50 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flint Paper @ Jan 29 2005, 05:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Invader Scoot+Jan 29 2005, 11:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Invader Scoot @ Jan 29 2005, 11:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The new Zelda that's coming out is gonna be using realistic graphics though, which will definitely be much better. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Because that's what's important!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ...
Maybe I should have worded my post differently. Cell Shaded graphics just... aren't Zelda. Can you imagine something like Metroid Prime or Halo coming out cell shaded? It just wouldn't fit, and the game would <i>probably</i> not be as good.
Maybe I should have worded my post differently. Cell Shaded graphics just... aren't Zelda. Can you imagine something like Metroid Prime or Halo coming out cell shaded? It just wouldn't fit, and the game would <i>probably</i> not be as good.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Fair enough, even though I think cel-shading fits with Zelda very nicely. It is a fantasy game, after all.
But if we're disliking Wind Waker, it's due to the average dungeons and Triforce-shard-slog-a-thon, not the graphics.
Maybe I should have worded my post differently. Cell Shaded graphics just... aren't Zelda. Can you imagine something like Metroid Prime or Halo coming out cell shaded? It just wouldn't fit, and the game would <i>probably</i> not be as good. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't know why other zelda fans are so up in arms about cell shaded graphics. Personally I think it gives the game style. In fact, I would love to see a cell shaded metroid, that would be pretty slick. But to each his own I guess
Pfft. whatever. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yea, but how many realistic graphics games did you see on the SNES/NES/Genesis? Donkey Kong Country is probably the best you'll find (barring sports games, which kind of need that realism feel - and don't need any effects, really)
one thing that ps2 has over all these other consoles are rpg's. im talking like ff style rpg's. how many did xbox have? wasn't it like 0? i thing gc had skies of arcadia and thats it. xbox has the worst game selection i have ever seen. ps2 is the best. gc comes close to ps2. these 2 consoles have a soul. xbox just used the formula "best grafixs=best system!"
anywho, i'm excited to see what new capabilities of the ps2 and gc will be. xbox will be the usual. showing off the new madden and racing game. *yawn* one thing that i admit they did right is xbox live. but don't worry, sony knows how popular live is, and is gonna do the same thing.
Alcapwn"War is the science of destruction" - John AbbotJoin Date: 2003-06-21Member: 17590Members
<!--QuoteBegin-UltimaGecko+Jan 29 2005, 08:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (UltimaGecko @ Jan 29 2005, 08:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> (barring sports games, which kind of need that realism feel - and don't need any effects, really) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> you cant have a realistic hockey game without that ice spray...
<!--QuoteBegin-Drfuzzy+Jan 28 2005, 09:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Drfuzzy @ Jan 28 2005, 09:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Dual processors = bye bye good games. Nobody likes to code for anything with complex processors (dreamcast, anyone?) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The PC is moving to dual core(essentially dual processors integrated in one package that fits in a single socket and has the same charecteristics as 2 separate processors). Both AMD and Intel are doing this.
The PS2's emotion engine is allready a 128-bit RISC processor with a vector processor unit and 2 other different co-processors. It's reportedly a big pain to program and it has far more games than any other console, an in all it's done well for itself.
Lets also not forget to compare direct3d and openGL: One feels like drowning in red tape and changes a whole bunch from version to version, it takes literally a couple of thousand lines to get things up and running so you can draw a single f-ing polygon on the screen, and the documentation and code examples are pretty awfull. The other is well documented, has little red tape and confusing pit falls and performs allmost equivalently but does not allways support the latest features as well(all though you can do them with extensions). Which is more commonly used? Well, direct3d is, and it isn't fun at all to work with and even simple things are quite a pain.
The PS3 is moving to a the cell processor architecture which looks to be an extremely aggressive design.
The PS3 is rumored to be using either 2 or 4 cell processors, these processors contain a g5 like processor and several simple risc like cores. The simpler cores provide raw computing power for easily parallellizable code('simple to digest' code for a MP system), like FFT, DSP, allmost anything in graphics and sound processing in general, collision detection and physical simulation. The risc like cores can be linked up to a stream processor at run time(!) where one processors output is another processors input. The cell processor is rumored to do away with alot of abstraction that exists in PC based architectures, even virtual memory(!). It uses REALLY fast rambus memory technology and it was designed ground up to be a wicked fast processor that easily cooperates with other cell processors and is easy to mass produce. This thing might in time show itself to be a nightmare to code, but it is likely to be an order of magnitude faster than any PC at most tasks a gamer could possibly care about.
If it is that much faster, and Sony, IBM and huge companies have sunk so much cash into designing this architecture, which is NOT only going to be used in the PS3, but in plenty of other projects that need fast DSP. Then this thing is either going to be the biggest freaking flop of the decade or it is going to be such a leap over the current PC's that AMD and Intel get a real wake-up call and start picking up the pace(is there a correlation between the desicion on pushing multi-core solutions on regular PC users and the cell processor?). The only thing that seems remotely competitive with the cell processor is graphics cards which are stream processors in nature, but the cell processor will have much better memory than even graphics cards and be even more general purpose so this is going to be very interesting.
edit: clues will start trickling in at ISSCC in early february.
Comments
thats funny, because the ps2 was complicated to code for, and im playing the best online console game right now (socom2) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Really? Because I heard <a href='http://www.bungie.net/stats/' target='_blank'>this</a> one game has almost half a million unique players per day.
Best I can find for Socom 2: 100,000 (which is probably off, since it's from a thread of Socom 2 fanboy-type-people talking about cheating - but that's what I'm using <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> ).
This console release will be strange, because it could really go to any of the 3, depending on loyalty, release time, features, price and projected games.
I say well all buy whichever one has the least EA support <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> .
Especially once a system gets to the 100-150 range where the current gen is now, it only takes a handful of games for me to see it as worth getting (only took 7 to convince me to get a PS2 - Ratchet, Jak, and Katamari. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> oh, and Ico. And a few others I've since taken interest in).
I imagine it's still going to be cheaper to get all 3 of these next-gen platforms, even at release, than a top-spec new computer <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
But you're right. that's one of the reasons it' feel into the abyss.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unfortunatly it wasn't the main reason for the saturn's demise. The main reason was that it was originally designed to be a 2d powerhouse. Unfortunatly for them, Sony, looking to make something out of the SNES-CD venture, decided to design the playstation for 3d. Thus it was that the saturn was on the wrong side of a divide in console gaming history.
However, any collector looking for some good stuff should look at the saturn. It has some amazing games (most of them 2d).
I've never been able to afford to buy all the systems on the market (though I was able to get an N64 and a playstation, and a dreamcast and a gamecube if you count those as being in teh same generation), and I doubt this will be the year I can manage it. Besides, I wouldn't own an X-Box if they payed me to play it. So, being a Nintendo fanboy and all, my money will almost certainly be going to the Revolution.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This console release will be strange, because it could really go to any of the 3, depending on loyalty, release time, features, price and projected games.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think the Revolution has the disadvantage in this one. Between MS and Sony, I give Sony the advantage for having been in the market for slgihtly longer, and having 2 very successfull generations in a row. The PS3 may sell a bunch based on that alone. The next MS system, however, is kind of up in the air. A new Halo game would probably sell alot, but I still doubt it will be as popular as the PS3. The revolution is also disadvantaged in that it will probably not play HD-DVD movies. Or any movies for that matter. Remember that the GC didn't because Nintend believed that their system was for playing games, not some sort of home media center. I agree whole heartedly, but many don't.
It is also unfortunate that Nintendo seems to have lost its cool. I attribute this to the whole "Nintendo makes kiddie games" idocy. Aparently, unless your game is filled with gore and sex, its a kiddie game. But I digress....
Anyways, in summary my prediction for the finishing order for the next generation of consoles will be:
Sony PS3
MS X-Box Next
Nintendo Revolution
And in japan, reverse X-Box and Revolution.
thats funny, because the ps2 was complicated to code for, and im playing the best online console game right now (socom2) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Really? Because I heard <a href='http://www.bungie.net/stats/' target='_blank'>this</a> one game has almost half a million unique players per day.
Best I can find for Socom 2: 100,000 (which is probably off, since it's from a thread of Socom 2 fanboy-type-people talking about cheating - but that's what I'm using <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> ).
This console release will be strange, because it could really go to any of the 3, depending on loyalty, release time, features, price and projected games.
I say well all buy whichever one has the least EA support <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> . <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I said best, not most popular. Plus halo2 is crap. Dont see whats so great about it... i dont want to see oompa loompa's running around with lazer pistols speaking in...english (WTH?!?!?)
Nintendo's style of creativity over raw power in a console has always appealed to me.
Xbox-Next and PS3 are just upgrades of the Xbox and Ps2 (hence the oh-so inventive names) but the revolution will be a new console altogether
thats funny, because the ps2 was complicated to code for, and im playing the best online console game right now (socom2) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Really? Because I heard <a href='http://www.bungie.net/stats/' target='_blank'>this</a> one game has almost half a million unique players per day.
Best I can find for Socom 2: 100,000 (which is probably off, since it's from a thread of Socom 2 fanboy-type-people talking about cheating - but that's what I'm using <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> ).
This console release will be strange, because it could really go to any of the 3, depending on loyalty, release time, features, price and projected games.
I say well all buy whichever one has the least EA support <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> . <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I said best, not most popular. Plus halo2 is crap. Dont see whats so great about it... i dont want to see oompa loompa's running around with lazer pistols speaking in...english (WTH?!?!?) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because that's what multiplayer is, singleplayer.
...Oh, wait. It's not.
[I'm not sure how it has so many unique players either, I didn't play it that much when I did have Xbox Live...unless you're making custom games it gets boring pretty quick.]
thats funny, because the ps2 was complicated to code for, and im playing the best online console game right now (socom2) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Really? Because I heard <a href='http://www.bungie.net/stats/' target='_blank'>this</a> one game has almost half a million unique players per day.
Best I can find for Socom 2: 100,000 (which is probably off, since it's from a thread of Socom 2 fanboy-type-people talking about cheating - but that's what I'm using <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> ).
This console release will be strange, because it could really go to any of the 3, depending on loyalty, release time, features, price and projected games.
I say well all buy whichever one has the least EA support <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> . <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I said best, not most popular. Plus halo2 is crap. Dont see whats so great about it... i dont want to see oompa loompa's running around with lazer pistols speaking in...english (WTH?!?!?)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't be so hopelessly stupid. There's no empirical measure of 'best' on any subjective media, but if we're going to try anyway, <a href='http://www.gamerankings.com/' target='_blank'>Halo 2 received higher review scores.</a> You cannot call Socom 2 the "best online console game," just like I can't say PSO is. You also cannot dismiss Halo 2 as crap. TRY AGAIN.
Well it could be worse.
<img src='http://www.pacs-portal.co.uk/Emulators/images/N64.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Well it could be worse.
<img src='http://www.pacs-portal.co.uk/Emulators/images/N64.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
What the hell do you mean retardedly done zelda.
Because that's what's important!
Because that's what's important!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
...
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Maybe I should have worded my post differently. Cell Shaded graphics just... aren't Zelda. Can you imagine something like Metroid Prime or Halo coming out cell shaded? It just wouldn't fit, and the game would <i>probably</i> not be as good.
Because that's what's important!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
...
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Maybe I should have worded my post differently. Cell Shaded graphics just... aren't Zelda. Can you imagine something like Metroid Prime or Halo coming out cell shaded? It just wouldn't fit, and the game would <i>probably</i> not be as good.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fair enough, even though I think cel-shading fits with Zelda very nicely. It is a fantasy game, after all.
But if we're disliking Wind Waker, it's due to the average dungeons and Triforce-shard-slog-a-thon, not the graphics.
<!--QuoteBegin-Esuna+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Esuna)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->the PS2 does suck monkey balls<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->An intentional SMB reference? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Had trouble remembering, but I knew I loved the Gamecube for a reason.. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Because that's what's important!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
...
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Maybe I should have worded my post differently. Cell Shaded graphics just... aren't Zelda. Can you imagine something like Metroid Prime or Halo coming out cell shaded? It just wouldn't fit, and the game would <i>probably</i> not be as good. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know why other zelda fans are so up in arms about cell shaded graphics. Personally I think it gives the game style. In fact, I would love to see a cell shaded metroid, that would be pretty slick. But to each his own I guess
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
<img src='http://www.vgmuseum.com/images/snes01/01/zelda3b.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://www.zeldauniverse.net/gallery/albums/screenshots/alttp/20.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://www.zeldauniverse.net/gallery/albums/screenshots/la/dx/20.png' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Pfft. whatever.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<img src='http://www.vgmuseum.com/images/snes01/01/zelda3b.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://www.zeldauniverse.net/gallery/albums/screenshots/alttp/20.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://www.zeldauniverse.net/gallery/albums/screenshots/la/dx/20.png' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Pfft. whatever. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yea, but how many realistic graphics games did you see on the SNES/NES/Genesis? Donkey Kong Country is probably the best you'll find (barring sports games, which kind of need that realism feel - and don't need any effects, really)
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
NEVER EVER SAY THAT IS LINK EVER!!!! /me blocks out of memory
anywho, i'm excited to see what new capabilities of the ps2 and gc will be. xbox will be the usual. showing off the new madden and racing game. *yawn* one thing that i admit they did right is xbox live. but don't worry, sony knows how popular live is, and is gonna do the same thing.
you cant have a realistic hockey game without that ice spray...
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<img src='http://www.vgmuseum.com/images/snes01/01/zelda3b.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://www.zeldauniverse.net/gallery/albums/screenshots/alttp/20.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://www.zeldauniverse.net/gallery/albums/screenshots/la/dx/20.png' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Pfft. whatever. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well hello, limited color gamut. We meet again.
The PC is moving to dual core(essentially dual processors integrated in one package that fits in a single socket and has the same charecteristics as 2 separate processors). Both AMD and Intel are doing this.
The PS2's emotion engine is allready a 128-bit RISC processor with a vector processor unit and 2 other different co-processors. It's reportedly a big pain to program and it has far more games than any other console, an in all it's done well for itself.
Lets also not forget to compare direct3d and openGL: One feels like drowning in red tape and changes a whole bunch from version to version, it takes literally a couple of thousand lines to get things up and running so you can draw a single f-ing polygon on the screen, and the documentation and code examples are pretty awfull. The other is well documented, has little red tape and confusing pit falls and performs allmost equivalently but does not allways support the latest features as well(all though you can do them with extensions). Which is more commonly used? Well, direct3d is, and it isn't fun at all to work with and even simple things are quite a pain.
The PS3 is moving to a the cell processor architecture which looks to be an extremely aggressive design.
The PS3 is rumored to be using either 2 or 4 cell processors, these processors contain a g5 like processor and several simple risc like cores. The simpler cores provide raw computing power for easily parallellizable code('simple to digest' code for a MP system), like FFT, DSP, allmost anything in graphics and sound processing in general, collision detection and physical simulation. The risc like cores can be linked up to a stream processor at run time(!) where one processors output is another processors input. The cell processor is rumored to do away with alot of abstraction that exists in PC based architectures, even virtual memory(!). It uses REALLY fast rambus memory technology and it was designed ground up to be a wicked fast processor that easily cooperates with other cell processors and is easy to mass produce. This thing might in time show itself to be a nightmare to code, but it is likely to be an order of magnitude faster than any PC at most tasks a gamer could possibly care about.
If it is that much faster, and Sony, IBM and huge companies have sunk so much cash into designing this architecture, which is NOT only going to be used in the PS3, but in plenty of other projects that need fast DSP. Then this thing is either going to be the biggest freaking flop of the decade or it is going to be such a leap over the current PC's that AMD and Intel get a real wake-up call and start picking up the pace(is there a correlation between the desicion on pushing multi-core solutions on regular PC users and the cell processor?). The only thing that seems remotely competitive with the cell processor is graphics cards which are stream processors in nature, but the cell processor will have much better memory than even graphics cards and be even more general purpose so this is going to be very interesting.
edit: clues will start trickling in at ISSCC in early february.