as someone who plays kharraa nine times out of ten, im loath to point this out, but commanders, seriously consider turret placement.
especially now, in this post patch era, when taking down the factory shuts down all turrets. more often than not, as a skulk, i can take down an entire marine expansion by myself, due solely to poor turret placement.
if you place the factory in a corner, or some other place where there is a way for an alien to shield themselves from the turrets with the factory, they can take it down without fear of reprisal. and once a marine turret farm falls, the entire expansion is lost.
eventually, the marines will respond, but by then the damage is done. no commander gives out welders enough, so i know that by merely damaging a factory, i have prepped it for destruction at a later point in time.
if you dont want that to happen, place at least one turret in a slightly less obvious place, one that will cover all angles of attack on the factory. ultimately, that is what your turrets are defending. not a resource tower, not a choke point, but their life giver.
first step would be to get a team of marines who aren't complete morons.. (yes.. the marines themselves can lose the game too, its not always the commanders fault <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->)
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> How do you convince a generally deathmatchy team to actually leave the base with LMG's early on to attack a hive and secure it?
That's the single largest problem I have... they all want hmgs... even 2 minutes into the game. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lie and tell them there's a whole pile of hmgs and HA's at the waypoint you gave them. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
One thing I want to stress as a player in general- don't rely on turrets. They can be taken out if the aliens really want to take them out. One human player with a shotty (and good aim) and a welder will make a HUGE difference. I suggest leaving 2 marines at any given hive location you've taken over, one with a shotgun, one with a machine gun. If they aren't careless and have appropriate upgrades, the base should hold against anything.
Nice guide, Monsieur. I've just noticed the fun and depth to the Commander mode, and I think I've began doing decent. I still enjoy playing Aliens more though. =D
Yup...the classic thing I still see some commanders...most of which I think are new but, they sit down and build about 8 or 10 turrents in an area. For one, thier expensive...2 they are useless when the factory is located in a place where a skulk can get in a corner and destroy it without being shot at. 3 You only need a couple to hold a point, they are really only there to let you know when something BIG is coming.
Don't rely on turrents to win the day. Use the siege cannon if you must but don't think that a big farm of turrents is going to stop the lone alien that gets behind the factory and destroys it.
I just played a game as aliens (I know, I know, I couldn't join the marines. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo--> ), but I managed to take out the structures they had placed at our Hive as a skulk with a good Lerk supporting me.
I don't think the marines were all that good - we could've had all 3 hives, but we ended up taking them out first. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Two fades, a skulk, and a Lerk with some great umbra placements was all that was needed.
In other news, I still don't like aliens. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
err I've jumped in a comm chair on an empty server before but couldn't place anything? I was left clikcing on a resourse spout and nothing... is it left click or what key? (I need the name of what it does since I switched all of my controls around)
plz tell me the servers you guys play on, every single one i goto is filled with marines that dont listen, Commands that go afk, and aliens that are not the brightest... PLZ TELL ME WHERE YOUR AWSOME SUPER COOL SERVER IS I AM DESPERATE TO FIGHT SOMEONE NONE n00ish!!!
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
Actually, the best Hive-killing setup for a Marine is Jetpack-Welder. Welder will take down Alien structures faster than ANYTHING else in the game, and the jetpack will virtually assure that they'll be able to perch on top and weld it to nothing.. assuming they have enough cover to GET on top without being ker-smackied by a Xeno.
Also, a good way to *instantly* take down a Hive is to hide an Armory in a corner of the Hive-room, and have a Marine hide whenever one respawns. Toss LOTS of mines, and have him put them up everywhere. Then run away, recycling the Armory. One guy respawns in with the right mine-placement, **BOOM**. No more hive. Looks like a laser-light show from the commo chair before it all goes off.. but when it does, the level practically rocks.
Tactics for Marines are actually relatively similar to Aliens, on meta-points. Webs become Mines.. mine a long corridor up at one end, place a defensive Turret field up behind them. Keep it supplied. About the only thing that'll take it down is a Fade with Acid Rocket, and you should have time to lock down the second hive if you set one of these up at the closest hive.. never underestimate mining the living cr*p out of a location. At the very least, it'll take them awhile with their Gorges tied up de-mining for you to get mines up at another location, and build up RP in the interim. Just don't forget to place them on the FLOOR of vent-shafts, or you'll get Skulks zipping in behind your grid, going Gorge, and taking over the Hive you fenced off. But if they don't see the landmines until it's too late.. *BOOM*. ^_^ Major xeno-deterrent.
--- 'Gassing us as lerkz?!?? WTF!! **obscenity**!!!!11!' 'Yes, I am. Your point? Trying to find a date?' '...'
NarfwakJoin Date: 2002-11-02Member: 5258Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica PT Lead, NS2 Community Developer
<!--QuoteBegin--Trevelyan_006+Nov 15 2002, 08:19 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Trevelyan_006 @ Nov 15 2002, 08:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->plz tell me the servers you guys play on, every single one i goto is filled with marines that dont listen, Commands that go afk, and aliens that are not the brightest... PLZ TELL ME WHERE YOUR AWSOME SUPER COOL SERVER IS I AM DESPERATE TO FIGHT SOMEONE NONE n00ish!!!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> www.spidergaming.com, name is NS v1.02: Iowa City Spider Gaming. People like us.
NarfwakJoin Date: 2002-11-02Member: 5258Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica PT Lead, NS2 Community Developer
About that door hacking thing - I can't do it either. Cursor changes so it looks like I should be able to, and I can't. It would be oh-so-useful as well.
The real barrier to many marine sucesses is the troops and not the commander, unfortunately. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> I usually end up with a core group of 4 marines or so who will at least glance at my waypoints once or twice before going where they want to. And then there's three or four more Rambos who run off on their own, get injured, and then all request health and ammo at the same time. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
As most of the servers I play on have not been patched to 1.02, commanders have no real leverage over their marines as denial of health or ammo if they do not follow orders usually results in a summary self-destuction of the base or comm chair. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Hopefully with a little more time the IQ of the average NS player will rise.
But in any case, I find that 90% of commanders wouldn't know a good rush if it ::skulk::ed them on the **obscenity**. Sitting in your base spamming turrets or placing turret factories at every position that could be considered slightly defensible makes your team slow to expand, and just as slow to respond. If there's one advantage Kharaa have, its speed. You either have to match them on their own ground, or a make their advantages irrelevant. Basic military strategy.
I really wish there was a way for comm's to make a Sqaud Leader, and have other marines easly recognize the squad leaders, even if the Kharaa could see this as well.
Excellent tips- well written, short and easy to read.
I need to try that observatory thing.
I posted all my commander tips up in the marines tactics class <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> I guess maybe not the best place for them but eh...
I agree that fireteam leaders, er those NCO's, should be a part of the game. The commander would assign them to the most experienced players, and a beacon would appear to other players. (kinda like hive sight but for marines, and only for the 2 experienced players). This way newbies can find someone experienced to tag along with even if he doesen't have a waypoint, and it makes rendevious alot easier if you die and need to get back to the action. "Leader where are you?! oh... ok i'm on the way!"
hehe or maybe I've been playing too much americas army, where the leaders direction are shown up top by the number of stripes.....
Good tips mon, nice to see you guys sharing some of the tactics you've learnt whilst pting.
Amazing how wrong some ppl can be tho, the posters I mean.
I love it when ppl post super mega tactics that work 100% of the time, accept the catch is you gotta be playing a team of total newbies for it to work.
People who swear by mines annoy me. I mean any skulk with a brain will easily not get blown up by mines placed around a res tower. And as soon as they have leap, you can fearlessly leap through the beams and out of harms way very easily.
Getting a jetpack and landing on top of a hive is lame imo, but playing a good team you'll be shot to peices by fades within 30 seconds.
Phase gates are so under used also. When I take a hive as commander, first thing I do is get the res point, build a tf and get a phase gate and 2 turret right after that. Make sure also you tell your marines where the phase gate goes to. Putting an armoury in the hive is a really good idea when you've got the res, it allows you keep up a sustained defense and hand out welders easily. If you get lots of phase gates, all you gotta say is "need some ppl in hive 1 pls" and they'll be ther ein 15 second if your lucky.
As a commander, you have to gain the trust of your men.
I spend probably 80% of my time hand ing out waypoints. I love em and if the marines can see your using them effectively they'll follow them without question.
Threaten ppl. Say if you go rambo with that HMG and HA i just have you, your not getting another thing in the whole game. And they wait too. 3 guys in Ha with welders are unstoppable if you tell them to weld each other.
Dont turret farm. In my main base I have a max of 5 or 6 turrets normally making sure the tf is covered 360 degrees and the cc has on too.. If the base comes under mass attack, simply recall all your marines through phase gates. Turrets are deceptively expensive, 5 turret is 95 rps, which is enough almost for 2 guy in ha with hmgs.
Just use turrets to cover important points, your marines are your most effective alien killer. Static defenses can only do so much. What would you prefer, a hive covered by 15 measly spread out turrets, or 4 guys with ha and hmgs and welders which have brains and can react and work together.
It is important to just say no to people asking for things. "Can I get a shotty here com!?!" You respond "No. Go to your waypoint, or you get nothing the rest of the game." That usually shuts them up <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
When you get heavy armor and HMGs, give them to a group of players who you can trust to move in a group and not die. Give them all welders, and tell them to call for a weld when hurt. This way, they can stay alive and carry out your orders.
NarfwakJoin Date: 2002-11-02Member: 5258Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica PT Lead, NS2 Community Developer
edited December 2002
<b>I FIGURED OUT HOW TO HACK DOORS!</b> Yippee!
First of all, you must do a single left-click on the object you want to manipulate, <i>not</i> the switch. Second, if you want to close a door that has passed into level geometry, you cannot click through the level even if you can see through it. You have to angle you view to click on whatever nubs may still be sticking out. And that's it!
<b>Don't be afraid to do some hands-on commanding</b>
If a skulk or other low-level alien finds a blind spot in your turret array, and there aren't any marines nearby to put a stop to it, you can be in a major jam. That turret factor or arms lab can easily run up $30 of damage, and pave the way for a more direct attack. That is, unless you command hands-on! In such an instance, log out of your CC (let your marines know beforehand, if possible), and let 'em have it! The alien will likely not see such an attack coming while he's preoccupied with trashing your expensive hardware. After it's dead, reload your weapons, restock at the armory if necessary, and return to the CC. Never forget that an extra 'panic' marine is always a click away!
As a commander, it is your job to guide your marines to victory. First things first… Top 10 Rules to not getting owned at the start of the game:
1 If you have never been a commander, don’t be unless no one else volunteers. 2 If a commander enters at the start of the round with out asking first on his microphone, or doesn’t build anything for 10 seconds, immediately get your team to eject him. 3 Know your plan of attack, and make sure your marines know as well. 4 Group up people either by skill (if you know them) or by location 5 Focus on securing at least one hive and resource node right away 6 IF YOU DO NOT HAVE A MICROPHONE THINK TWICE ABOUT BEING A COMMANDER… Voice chat is the most essential part of being a commander, even if you can type at 200 wpm, and are great at giving waypoints. 7 As a real commander would, treat your marines like dirt, until they prove themselves. Make sure everyone knows who is useless, and praise your smart and good fighters with weapons armor and med-packs. This will make your marines try harder to do better, and successfully work for you 8 Know the map! (Don't assume you know the map as a commander, just because you know the map as a marine.... the perspectives are VERY different!) 9 Appoint at least one marine to do chores for the commander. Building at base, welding, scout, etc. 10 Voice com is a powerful tool. Ask your marines to not use it unless absolutely necessary.
(All these rules of course nullify, if no one on the server chooses to be commander within the first few seconds.)
Now… your console: As a commander you start off with a unique HUD display. The first thing you will want to do is quickly adjust to it, and put an infantry portal down for your marines to build. The HUD display is much like a RTS (real-time-strategy) display. You go from the first-person perspective, to a third-person overview. The whole map is displayed to you. You can see your marines, hear the beating hives location, and see alien movement. Use that to your advantage. The console takes some time getting used to and can be a bit frustrating and confusing when placing buildings, but can also be your best friends, because you will always know what is happening when you get good.
The current buildings, explanations, requirements and costs: Command Console - commanders HUD - none - 50r Infantry Portal - spawns your marines into battle - Command Console - 15r Armory - ammo for your marines - Infantry Portal - 25r Turret Factory - allows you to build turrets - Infantry Portal - 25r Basic Turret - fires at nearby enemy aliens - Turret Factory - 19r Siege Turret -fires at nearby enemy structures - Advanced Turret F - 25r Observatory -picks up nearby movement - Armory - 25r Arms Lab -upgrades weapons and armor - Armory - 50r Prototype Lab -researches jetpacks and armor - Arms Lab - 45r Phase Gate -allows u to warp between gates - Observatory - 20r
Upgrades: Advanced Turret F - allows siege turret capability - Turret Factory - 25r Advanced Armory - allows better weapons - Armory - 35r Weapons Upgrade 1 - increases all weapon damage 10% - Arms Lab - 20r Weapons Upgrade 2 - increases all weapon damage 20% - Weapons Upgrade 1 - 40r Weapons Upgrade 3 - increases all weapon damage 30% - Weapons Upgrade 2 - 60r Armor Upgrade 1 - increases armor by 20, ha by 30 - Arms Lab - 20r Armor Upgrade 2 - increases armor by 40, ha by 60 - Armor Upgrade 1 - 40r Armor Upgrade 3 - increases armor by 60, ha by 90 - Armor Upgrade 2 - 60r Jetpack Research - allows jetpacks - Prototype Lab - 25r Heavy Armor R - allows Heavy armor - Prototype Lab - 50r Motion Tracking - allows all marines to see movement - Observatory - 45r Distress Beacon - spawns all dead marines at once - Observatory - 15r
Weapons and Armor: Welder - fixes structures, and marine armor - Armory - 10r Mines - explosive weapon marines can set - Armory - 8r Shotgun - High damage close range weapon - Armory - 20r Heavy Machine Gun - Big clip and big damage - Advanced Armory - 25r Grenade Launcher - Explosive ranged weapon - Advanced Armory - 33r Jetpack - Ability to fly - Jetpack Researched - 9r Heavy Armor - Slower mobility + 150 armor - Heavy Armor R - 25r Medical Pack - +50 health to marine - Infantry Portal - 2r Ammunition - +clip to marine - Infantry Portal - 2r
Resource Management (and giving toys to your boys) The single biggest mistake that I see Marine Commanders make is wasting resources. In fact, a great deal of this portion of the command guide is going to center on how to prevent the waste of your precious resources, especially during crunch time. First things first; let’s go through a brief description of the resource model. On the mini map in the lower left corner, there are white squares; these squares represent hives and resource nodes. Left click on one of them, and your main window will jump to that area; do you see the octagonal, gray, metal thing spewing white smoke? That’s a resource node, and the secondary goal of the marines to capture. Depositing a resource collector (and having your marines “weld” it) gives the commander more toys to play with and drop- but be wary, these collectors are not indestructible. Guard them, but don’t be wasteful. Three to four turrets placed around your factory and collector is usually enough to protect both. Remember that there are few aliens that will run through your resource node and turret-laden area; almost always, you can use this tendency to your advantage (but more on that later). Marines lead a dangerous life- running through dark corridors into hordes of skulks, hidden lerks, walls of offensive chambers, rampaging fades, and berserk onos. And each time one of your marines dies, it costs you, one resource point for a basic marine. If the dead marine, was carrying a welder, Heavy Armor, a Jetpack, or an advanced weapon, that cost can quickly skyrocket, to 50+ resources. That’s more than a fade with all upgrades for having three hives. So, what can be done to reduce the danger to your marines? Building an observatory and researching motion detection is a fantastic way for your marines to stay alive longer. Researching armor and weapon upgrades at the Arms Lab (NOT the Advanced Armory) is also one of the best ways to keep your marines alive- each level of armor upgrade will increase both the amount of armor your marines have, but also increase the percentage of damage that both standard and heavy armor can absorb with each hit. Since marines typically live short, exciting lives, it doesn’t make sense to continually spend 22-60 resource points to continually outfit dead marines, when a one time cost of 20, 40, and 60 for each level in each of the two tech trees will give each marine a huge increase in the effectiveness of their arms and armor- in total, that’s 240 resources, 290 including the arms lab itself. That isn’t even enough to outfit six marines with heavy armor and heavy machine guns! Additionally, heavy armor is nearly as expensive to research, and must be dropped individually- these weapons and armor technology upgrades are standard for marines, both living and respawned! Another extremely underused method of resource management is the proper use of phase gates. A good phase gate system can save your team hundreds of resource points, by allowing your marines swift transfer to any other phase gate on the map. Often, a good phase gate system means the difference between maintaining control of captured strategic points and having onos rampage through your main base. Another point in favor of having phase gates is keeping your marines from wandering the halls of the map like lost puppies in a snowstorm. Letting your marines wander like that ends up costing you resources- the aliens have no cost to replace skulks, and will gladly sacrifice 10 or 15 of them to take down a single marine wearing heavy armor and carrying advanced weaponry- after all, that marine represents nearly as many resources as three extra turrets at one of the bases in your defensive screen. The use of phase gates can severely reduce the “Lost Puppy Factor” significantly, keeping your more inexperienced marines close to areas the aliens are likely to attack, and costing you fewer resources in the long run. Another common mistake made by officers fresh from OCS is to drop a LOT of ammo and health where ever one or two marines start crying for it. Each packet of ammo only contains one clip of ammo for whatever weapon the marine currently has selected- 50 rounds for the LMG, 10 each for pistol and shotgun, 150 for the HMG, and four grenade launcher rounds. It is much more efficient to have one armory per 3 phase gate locations and one phase gate in each area you wish to defend. The only time that the commander should be directly dropping ammunition is in the middle of a firefight to take a new area- otherwise, marines should be relying on armories and phase gates to replenish their extra magazines. Health kits should be dropped with discretion- like all non-structure drops, they disappear after a set time limit expires. They are a situational item, and it’s up to the commander to decide if the cost is worth it to keep a marine alive for a couple extra seconds.
The Fake Out Strat: (works best on unknown hive map) Strength: Ensures you and your team that Onos will not make you look pathetic in the end game by securing a hive, Also very annoying to play against if you are an alien. Weakness: A quick way to get a hive, but costly. Could end up hindering you resource wise, and a quick clever skulk rush could kill you. Strat: To switch your spawn location to a hive. First as commander, you build an infantry portal, select two marines to guard you at base, and send the rest out to secure your choice hive. First build the resource node at the hive, then build a command chair. After build an infantry portal there, and recycle the one in your base. Now you have options: 1 - you can defend the resource node at your start location 2 - move to your new location while u send the marines at hive to secure new hive (fast 2 hives will win you the game but risky) 3 - (best method) put an armory and turrets up in the hive you switched your spawn to, and have the rest move out to the secure the next hive. 4 - siege their main hive from just within reach (quick win, and works quite well) Try it and you may just love it, but it isn’t a good strat to do twice in a row, unless your marines have great aim and are fast.
Starvation: (very good all round strat, and good with newer marines) Strength: Allows you the use of many resources, and prepares your team for the late game. Weakness: Not a fast strategy, and you could be facing fades before you really even start getting good upgrades. Strat: To acquire 3 fast resource nodes and defend them. So build two infantry portals, and an armory. Tell your marines to load up on ammo, and send them out to get the first resource node. Have one marine to hang back, and if you choose build some defense in base(recommended) Once the first resource node is built have all but 2 marines move on to the next resource node location (hopefully a hive). Build a resource node there, and defend both nodes with turrets. Have all the marines meet and grab one more resource node and defend it. Have the marine at base build an observatory, and a phase gate, while the other marines get phase gates to the hive and other 2 resource nodes if you choose. Now depending on your focus, you can get upgrades at base, and have your marines defend your resources, or have your marines try to take another hive. Hopefully everything works out and you have two hives and awesome upgrades and weapons. It should be an easy win.
The Evil Eye(bugs skulks like crazy) Strength: early game transportation and motion tracking Weakness: resources could be much better spent, and marines have to be decent shots Strat: To win by letting your marines know exactly where their enemies are Build one infantry portal, and armory, and then an observatory. Immediately upgrade motion tracking. Leave best marine in base to defend, and send the rest out to secure nodes or secure a hive, heck you can even siege their hive, since your marines will have a much easier time defending. Tip: Since you do have a early observatory, it may be a better choice if your marines are decent to always build a phase gate before turrets so they can get back to the action faster.
Building Strategies for Commander:
Anyone that has played before knows that 1 turret is never enough. Turret placement is probably the most important job for a commander. First you need to find a place for your turret factory. I like mine in a corner or against a wall, some like them in the open. First judge the radius you need to defend. The turret factory can support turrets as long as they are built within the radius. In most areas it is best to defend with at least 3 turrets. If built right they should cover the turret factory on all sides and be placed to cover each other if attacked. Maker sure when building the turret factory that if you do place it against the wall, make sure it is as far against it as possible. Skulks can be surprising and sneak in little cracks and take it out while never getting hit by the turrets defending it. Building at your spawn is also tricky at times. A smart commander builds the infantry portals and armory somewhere that will be hard for the aliens to shoot at, yet easy for the marines to move from. This means marines can spawn and load their weapons without getting nailed by lerk spikes or fade rockets. Always think about later in the game. You are going to want advanced structures, and your going to want them defended. Try to build so that the first few turrets will cover the buildings you build later. Be clever and take advantage of things in the map. There are some maps with vents just big enough to build turrets in. Sometimes the perfect place to siege, and many times the aliens never expect it. Also building on elevators, lamps, pipes, and anything else you think of could really confuse the aliens, and kill them in the process. Many people build their turret factory on top of the resource node, and then defend around it. I am sure you will find many unique ways to build as well. Jetpacks are good at doing a lot of these things. With building of course comes destroying. If there is no hope for something your marines have built, or something is no longer needed recycle. Recycling is another commander ability which allows you to get rid of any structure (except the command chair) and get resources back for it. If you see aliens taking down anything, quickly recycle it and get some resources for the loss.
Tricks: Dropping mines for a scouting marine: have him go out and place mines early on to block far off resource nodes. Also placing mines on the ground makes no red line appear, and is an easy way to kill aliens. Also mining location entrances before you start building there saves the marines from surprise attacks. Build key turret factories behind walls. You can build turrets on the other side of the wall with the factory not being in the open. Get an early shotgun man. Skulks will hate you for this, and as long as one marine is with him, if he dies the shotgun is still there to pick up. The one shot kills remove lots of annoyance when trying to build. Health and ammo spamming a location as your marines attack. This can be a good idea, if there is absolute chaos and you really need the location. Get an early welder. So many things can be welded on the map that give the marines an advantage. Use voice communication to tell your marines they are about to be under attack, and if your quick tell them from where. You can see alien movement when aliens are close to your marines.
Well I am trying to donate to the NS community, and I have put a lot more work into this, much more than I am posting. I am still working on a complete NS strategy Guide, for all alien races marines more on the commander, map overviews and strats, tips and tricks... If I ever complete this beast, I will be sure to post more, and maybe mail out copies of my sure to be bigger than 30 pages to noobs and the general NS community for the price of printing and shipping. E-mail me with questions concerns, or hell if ya wanna help at: ns@zy3.com
Great tips. I only ever tried commander once and hated it because my n00b marines just rushed around alone BEFORE WE EVEN HAD AN INFANTRY PORTAL. Listen guys: there should always be at least 1 marine hanging around base at the start to build up a strong and well defended base. The commander's job is not an easy one, as he has to be everywhere at once, so as soon as you don't know what to do GET ON THE RADIO and tell him you need an order, or type a message saying you're at a resource point or whatever. He's not omnipresent, even though it might seem that way if you've never been commander
Comments
especially now, in this post patch era, when taking down the factory shuts down all turrets. more often than not, as a skulk, i can take down an entire marine expansion by myself, due solely to poor turret placement.
if you place the factory in a corner, or some other place where there is a way for an alien to shield themselves from the turrets with the factory, they can take it down without fear of reprisal. and once a marine turret farm falls, the entire expansion is lost.
eventually, the marines will respond, but by then the damage is done. no commander gives out welders enough, so i know that by merely damaging a factory, i have prepped it for destruction at a later point in time.
if you dont want that to happen, place at least one turret in a slightly less obvious place, one that will cover all angles of attack on the factory. ultimately, that is what your turrets are defending. not a resource tower, not a choke point, but their life giver.
That's the single largest problem I have... they all want hmgs... even 2 minutes into the game.
That's the single largest problem I have... they all want hmgs... even 2 minutes into the game. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lie and tell them there's a whole pile of hmgs and HA's at the waypoint you gave them. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
One thing I want to stress as a player in general- don't rely on turrets. They can be taken out if the aliens really want to take them out. One human player with a shotty (and good aim) and a welder will make a HUGE difference. I suggest leaving 2 marines at any given hive location you've taken over, one with a shotgun, one with a machine gun. If they aren't careless and have appropriate upgrades, the base should hold against anything.
Don't rely on turrents to win the day. Use the siege cannon if you must but don't think that a big farm of turrents is going to stop the lone alien that gets behind the factory and destroys it.
I don't think the marines were all that good - we could've had all 3 hives, but we ended up taking them out first. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Two fades, a skulk, and a Lerk with some great umbra placements was all that was needed.
In other news, I still don't like aliens. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
You have to have at least 1 person on the other team.
Also, a good way to *instantly* take down a Hive is to hide an Armory in a corner of the Hive-room, and have a Marine hide whenever one respawns. Toss LOTS of mines, and have him put them up everywhere. Then run away, recycling the Armory. One guy respawns in with the right mine-placement, **BOOM**. No more hive. Looks like a laser-light show from the commo chair before it all goes off.. but when it does, the level practically rocks.
Tactics for Marines are actually relatively similar to Aliens, on meta-points. Webs become Mines.. mine a long corridor up at one end, place a defensive Turret field up behind them. Keep it supplied. About the only thing that'll take it down is a Fade with Acid Rocket, and you should have time to lock down the second hive if you set one of these up at the closest hive.. never underestimate mining the living cr*p out of a location. At the very least, it'll take them awhile with their Gorges tied up de-mining for you to get mines up at another location, and build up RP in the interim. Just don't forget to place them on the FLOOR of vent-shafts, or you'll get Skulks zipping in behind your grid, going Gorge, and taking over the Hive you fenced off. But if they don't see the landmines until it's too late.. *BOOM*. ^_^ Major xeno-deterrent.
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'Gassing us as lerkz?!?? WTF!! **obscenity**!!!!11!' 'Yes, I am. Your point? Trying to find a date?' '...'
www.spidergaming.com, name is NS v1.02: Iowa City Spider Gaming. People like us.
As most of the servers I play on have not been patched to 1.02, commanders have no real leverage over their marines as denial of health or ammo if they do not follow orders usually results in a summary self-destuction of the base or comm chair. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Hopefully with a little more time the IQ of the average NS player will rise.
But in any case, I find that 90% of commanders wouldn't know a good rush if it ::skulk::ed them on the **obscenity**. Sitting in your base spamming turrets or placing turret factories at every position that could be considered slightly defensible makes your team slow to expand, and just as slow to respond. If there's one advantage Kharaa have, its speed. You either have to match them on their own ground, or a make their advantages irrelevant. Basic military strategy.
"Hey, I hey ammo if I walk over to this here circle! Why diddn't I ever notice that before?"
I need to try that observatory thing.
I posted all my commander tips up in the marines tactics class <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> I guess maybe not the best place for them but eh...
I agree that fireteam leaders, er those NCO's, should be a part of the game. The commander would assign them to the most experienced players, and a beacon would appear to other players. (kinda like hive sight but for marines, and only for the 2 experienced players). This way newbies can find someone experienced to tag along with even if he doesen't have a waypoint, and it makes rendevious alot easier if you die and need to get back to the action. "Leader where are you?! oh... ok i'm on the way!"
hehe or maybe I've been playing too much americas army, where the leaders direction are shown up top by the number of stripes.....
Amazing how wrong some ppl can be tho, the posters I mean.
I love it when ppl post super mega tactics that work 100% of the time, accept the catch is you gotta be playing a team of total newbies for it to work.
People who swear by mines annoy me. I mean any skulk with a brain will easily not get blown up by mines placed around a res tower. And as soon as they have leap, you can fearlessly leap through the beams and out of harms way very easily.
Getting a jetpack and landing on top of a hive is lame imo, but playing a good team you'll be shot to peices by fades within 30 seconds.
Phase gates are so under used also. When I take a hive as commander, first thing I do is get the res point, build a tf and get a phase gate and 2 turret right after that. Make sure also you tell your marines where the phase gate goes to. Putting an armoury in the hive is a really good idea when you've got the res, it allows you keep up a sustained defense and hand out welders easily. If you get lots of phase gates, all you gotta say is "need some ppl in hive 1 pls" and they'll be ther ein 15 second if your lucky.
As a commander, you have to gain the trust of your men.
I spend probably 80% of my time hand ing out waypoints. I love em and if the marines can see your using them effectively they'll follow them without question.
Threaten ppl. Say if you go rambo with that HMG and HA i just have you, your not getting another thing in the whole game. And they wait too. 3 guys in Ha with welders are unstoppable if you tell them to weld each other.
Dont turret farm. In my main base I have a max of 5 or 6 turrets normally making sure the tf is covered 360 degrees and the cc has on too.. If the base comes under mass attack, simply recall all your marines through phase gates. Turrets are deceptively expensive, 5 turret is 95 rps, which is enough almost for 2 guy in ha with hmgs.
Just use turrets to cover important points, your marines are your most effective alien killer. Static defenses can only do so much. What would you prefer, a hive covered by 15 measly spread out turrets, or 4 guys with ha and hmgs and welders which have brains and can react and work together.
More later, i g2g now.
Happy hunting, and remember, phase gates own.
When you get heavy armor and HMGs, give them to a group of players who you can trust to move in a group and not die. Give them all welders, and tell them to call for a weld when hurt. This way, they can stay alive and carry out your orders.
First of all, you must do a single left-click on the object you want to manipulate, <i>not</i> the switch. Second, if you want to close a door that has passed into level geometry, you cannot click through the level even if you can see through it. You have to angle you view to click on whatever nubs may still be sticking out. And that's it!
<b>Don't be afraid to do some hands-on commanding</b>
If a skulk or other low-level alien finds a blind spot in your turret array, and there aren't any marines nearby to put a stop to it, you can be in a major jam. That turret factor or arms lab can easily run up $30 of damage, and pave the way for a more direct attack. That is, unless you command hands-on! In such an instance, log out of your CC (let your marines know beforehand, if possible), and let 'em have it! The alien will likely not see such an attack coming while he's preoccupied with trashing your expensive hardware. After it's dead, reload your weapons, restock at the armory if necessary, and return to the CC. Never forget that an extra 'panic' marine is always a click away!
As a commander, it is your job to guide your marines to victory. First things first… Top 10 Rules to not getting owned at the start of the game:
1 If you have never been a commander, don’t be unless no one else volunteers.
2 If a commander enters at the start of the round with out asking first on his microphone, or doesn’t build anything for 10 seconds, immediately get your team to eject him.
3 Know your plan of attack, and make sure your marines know as well.
4 Group up people either by skill (if you know them) or by location
5 Focus on securing at least one hive and resource node right away
6 IF YOU DO NOT HAVE A MICROPHONE THINK TWICE ABOUT BEING A COMMANDER… Voice chat is the most essential part of being a commander, even if you can type at 200 wpm, and are great at giving waypoints.
7 As a real commander would, treat your marines like dirt, until they prove themselves. Make sure everyone knows who is useless, and praise your smart and good fighters with weapons armor and med-packs. This will make your marines try harder to do better, and successfully work for you
8 Know the map! (Don't assume you know the map as a commander, just because you know the map as a marine.... the perspectives are VERY different!)
9 Appoint at least one marine to do chores for the commander. Building at base, welding, scout, etc.
10 Voice com is a powerful tool. Ask your marines to not use it unless absolutely necessary.
(All these rules of course nullify, if no one on the server chooses to be commander within the first few seconds.)
Now… your console:
As a commander you start off with a unique HUD display. The first thing you will want to do is quickly adjust to it, and put an infantry portal down for your marines to build. The HUD display is much like a RTS (real-time-strategy) display. You go from the first-person perspective, to a third-person overview. The whole map is displayed to you. You can see your marines, hear the beating hives location, and see alien movement. Use that to your advantage. The console takes some time getting used to and can be a bit frustrating and confusing when placing buildings, but can also be your best friends, because you will always know what is happening when you get good.
The current buildings, explanations, requirements and costs:
Command Console - commanders HUD - none - 50r
Infantry Portal - spawns your marines into battle - Command Console - 15r
Armory - ammo for your marines - Infantry Portal - 25r
Turret Factory - allows you to build turrets - Infantry Portal - 25r
Basic Turret - fires at nearby enemy aliens - Turret Factory - 19r
Siege Turret -fires at nearby enemy structures - Advanced Turret F - 25r
Observatory -picks up nearby movement - Armory - 25r
Arms Lab -upgrades weapons and armor - Armory - 50r
Prototype Lab -researches jetpacks and armor - Arms Lab - 45r
Phase Gate -allows u to warp between gates - Observatory - 20r
Upgrades:
Advanced Turret F - allows siege turret capability - Turret Factory - 25r
Advanced Armory - allows better weapons - Armory - 35r
Weapons Upgrade 1 - increases all weapon damage 10% - Arms Lab - 20r
Weapons Upgrade 2 - increases all weapon damage 20% - Weapons Upgrade 1 - 40r
Weapons Upgrade 3 - increases all weapon damage 30% - Weapons Upgrade 2 - 60r
Armor Upgrade 1 - increases armor by 20, ha by 30 - Arms Lab - 20r
Armor Upgrade 2 - increases armor by 40, ha by 60 - Armor Upgrade 1 - 40r
Armor Upgrade 3 - increases armor by 60, ha by 90 - Armor Upgrade 2 - 60r
Jetpack Research - allows jetpacks - Prototype Lab - 25r
Heavy Armor R - allows Heavy armor - Prototype Lab - 50r
Motion Tracking - allows all marines to see movement - Observatory - 45r
Distress Beacon - spawns all dead marines at once - Observatory - 15r
Weapons and Armor:
Welder - fixes structures, and marine armor - Armory - 10r
Mines - explosive weapon marines can set - Armory - 8r
Shotgun - High damage close range weapon - Armory - 20r
Heavy Machine Gun - Big clip and big damage - Advanced Armory - 25r
Grenade Launcher - Explosive ranged weapon - Advanced Armory - 33r
Jetpack - Ability to fly - Jetpack Researched - 9r
Heavy Armor - Slower mobility + 150 armor - Heavy Armor R - 25r
Medical Pack - +50 health to marine - Infantry Portal - 2r
Ammunition - +clip to marine - Infantry Portal - 2r
Resource Management (and giving toys to your boys)
The single biggest mistake that I see Marine Commanders make is wasting resources. In fact, a great deal of this portion of the command guide is going to center on how to prevent the waste of your precious resources, especially during crunch time.
First things first; let’s go through a brief description of the resource model. On the mini map in the lower left corner, there are white squares; these squares represent hives and resource nodes. Left click on one of them, and your main window will jump to that area; do you see the octagonal, gray, metal thing spewing white smoke? That’s a resource node, and the secondary goal of the marines to capture. Depositing a resource collector (and having your marines “weld” it) gives the commander more toys to play with and drop- but be wary, these collectors are not indestructible. Guard them, but don’t be wasteful. Three to four turrets placed around your factory and collector is usually enough to protect both. Remember that there are few aliens that will run through your resource node and turret-laden area; almost always, you can use this tendency to your advantage (but more on that later).
Marines lead a dangerous life- running through dark corridors into hordes of skulks, hidden lerks, walls of offensive chambers, rampaging fades, and berserk onos. And each time one of your marines dies, it costs you, one resource point for a basic marine. If the dead marine, was carrying a welder, Heavy Armor, a Jetpack, or an advanced weapon, that cost can quickly skyrocket, to 50+ resources. That’s more than a fade with all upgrades for having three hives. So, what can be done to reduce the danger to your marines? Building an observatory and researching motion detection is a fantastic way for your marines to stay alive longer. Researching armor and weapon upgrades at the Arms Lab (NOT the Advanced Armory) is also one of the best ways to keep your marines alive- each level of armor upgrade will increase both the amount of armor your marines have, but also increase the percentage of damage that both standard and heavy armor can absorb with each hit. Since marines typically live short, exciting lives, it doesn’t make sense to continually spend 22-60 resource points to continually outfit dead marines, when a one time cost of 20, 40, and 60 for each level in each of the two tech trees will give each marine a huge increase in the effectiveness of their arms and armor- in total, that’s 240 resources, 290 including the arms lab itself. That isn’t even enough to outfit six marines with heavy armor and heavy machine guns! Additionally, heavy armor is nearly as expensive to research, and must be dropped individually- these weapons and armor technology upgrades are standard for marines, both living and respawned!
Another extremely underused method of resource management is the proper use of phase gates. A good phase gate system can save your team hundreds of resource points, by allowing your marines swift transfer to any other phase gate on the map. Often, a good phase gate system means the difference between maintaining control of captured strategic points and having onos rampage through your main base. Another point in favor of having phase gates is keeping your marines from wandering the halls of the map like lost puppies in a snowstorm. Letting your marines wander like that ends up costing you resources- the aliens have no cost to replace skulks, and will gladly sacrifice 10 or 15 of them to take down a single marine wearing heavy armor and carrying advanced weaponry- after all, that marine represents nearly as many resources as three extra turrets at one of the bases in your defensive screen. The use of phase gates can severely reduce the “Lost Puppy Factor” significantly, keeping your more inexperienced marines close to areas the aliens are likely to attack, and costing you fewer resources in the long run.
Another common mistake made by officers fresh from OCS is to drop a LOT of ammo and health where ever one or two marines start crying for it. Each packet of ammo only contains one clip of ammo for whatever weapon the marine currently has selected- 50 rounds for the LMG, 10 each for pistol and shotgun, 150 for the HMG, and four grenade launcher rounds. It is much more efficient to have one armory per 3 phase gate locations and one phase gate in each area you wish to defend. The only time that the commander should be directly dropping ammunition is in the middle of a firefight to take a new area- otherwise, marines should be relying on armories and phase gates to replenish their extra magazines. Health kits should be dropped with discretion- like all non-structure drops, they disappear after a set time limit expires. They are a situational item, and it’s up to the commander to decide if the cost is worth it to keep a marine alive for a couple extra seconds.
The Fake Out Strat: (works best on unknown hive map)
Strength: Ensures you and your team that Onos will not make you look pathetic in the end game by securing a hive, Also very annoying to play against if you are an alien.
Weakness: A quick way to get a hive, but costly. Could end up hindering you resource wise, and a quick clever skulk rush could kill you.
Strat: To switch your spawn location to a hive.
First as commander, you build an infantry portal, select two marines to guard you at base, and send the rest out to secure your choice hive. First build the resource node at the hive, then build a command chair. After build an infantry portal there, and recycle the one in your base.
Now you have options:
1 - you can defend the resource node at your start location
2 - move to your new location while u send the marines at hive to secure new hive (fast 2 hives will win you the game but risky)
3 - (best method) put an armory and turrets up in the hive you switched your spawn to, and have the rest move out to the secure the next hive.
4 - siege their main hive from just within reach (quick win, and works quite well)
Try it and you may just love it, but it isn’t a good strat to do twice in a row, unless your marines have great aim and are fast.
Starvation: (very good all round strat, and good with newer marines)
Strength: Allows you the use of many resources, and prepares your team for the late game.
Weakness: Not a fast strategy, and you could be facing fades before you really even start getting good upgrades.
Strat: To acquire 3 fast resource nodes and defend them.
So build two infantry portals, and an armory. Tell your marines to load up on ammo, and send them out to get the first resource node. Have one marine to hang back, and if you choose build some defense in base(recommended) Once the first resource node is built have all but 2 marines move on to the next resource node location (hopefully a hive). Build a resource node there, and defend both nodes with turrets. Have all the marines meet and grab one more resource node and defend it. Have the marine at base build an observatory, and a phase gate, while the other marines get phase gates to the hive and other 2 resource nodes if you choose. Now depending on your focus, you can get upgrades at base, and have your marines defend your resources, or have your marines try to take another hive. Hopefully everything works out and you have two hives and awesome upgrades and weapons. It should be an easy win.
The Evil Eye(bugs skulks like crazy)
Strength: early game transportation and motion tracking
Weakness: resources could be much better spent, and marines have to be decent shots
Strat: To win by letting your marines know exactly where their enemies are
Build one infantry portal, and armory, and then an observatory. Immediately upgrade motion tracking. Leave best marine in base to defend, and send the rest out to secure nodes or secure a hive, heck you can even siege their hive, since your marines will have a much easier time defending.
Tip: Since you do have a early observatory, it may be a better choice if your marines are decent to always build a phase gate before turrets so they can get back to the action faster.
Building Strategies for Commander:
Anyone that has played before knows that 1 turret is never enough. Turret placement is probably the most important job for a commander. First you need to find a place for your turret factory. I like mine in a corner or against a wall, some like them in the open. First judge the radius you need to defend. The turret factory can support turrets as long as they are built within the radius. In most areas it is best to defend with at least 3 turrets. If built right they should cover the turret factory on all sides and be placed to cover each other if attacked. Maker sure when building the turret factory that if you do place it against the wall, make sure it is as far against it as possible. Skulks can be surprising and sneak in little cracks and take it out while never getting hit by the turrets defending it.
Building at your spawn is also tricky at times. A smart commander builds the infantry portals and armory somewhere that will be hard for the aliens to shoot at, yet easy for the marines to move from. This means marines can spawn and load their weapons without getting nailed by lerk spikes or fade rockets.
Always think about later in the game. You are going to want advanced structures, and your going to want them defended. Try to build so that the first few turrets will cover the buildings you build later.
Be clever and take advantage of things in the map. There are some maps with vents just big enough to build turrets in. Sometimes the perfect place to siege, and many times the aliens never expect it. Also building on elevators, lamps, pipes, and anything else you think of could really confuse the aliens, and kill them in the process. Many people build their turret factory on top of the resource node, and then defend around it. I am sure you will find many unique ways to build as well. Jetpacks are good at doing a lot of these things.
With building of course comes destroying. If there is no hope for something your marines have built, or something is no longer needed recycle. Recycling is another commander ability which allows you to get rid of any structure (except the command chair) and get resources back for it. If you see aliens taking down anything, quickly recycle it and get some resources for the loss.
Tricks:
Dropping mines for a scouting marine: have him go out and place mines early on to block far off resource nodes. Also placing mines on the ground makes no red line appear, and is an easy way to kill aliens. Also mining location entrances before you start building there saves the marines from surprise attacks.
Build key turret factories behind walls. You can build turrets on the other side of the wall with the factory not being in the open.
Get an early shotgun man. Skulks will hate you for this, and as long as one marine is with him, if he dies the shotgun is still there to pick up. The one shot kills remove lots of annoyance when trying to build.
Health and ammo spamming a location as your marines attack. This can be a good idea, if there is absolute chaos and you really need the location.
Get an early welder. So many things can be welded on the map that give the marines an advantage.
Use voice communication to tell your marines they are about to be under attack, and if your quick tell them from where. You can see alien movement when aliens are close to your marines.
Well I am trying to donate to the NS community, and I have put a lot more work into this, much more than I am posting. I am still working on a complete NS strategy Guide, for all alien races marines more on the commander, map overviews and strats, tips and tricks... If I ever complete this beast, I will be sure to post more, and maybe mail out copies of my sure to be bigger than 30 pages to noobs and the general NS community for the price of printing and shipping.
E-mail me with questions concerns, or hell if ya wanna help at:
ns@zy3.com