Movement is better? Hmm its hard to say... Generally, you want to set up 3 ASAP if your team decides to get movements first so you can max upgrades (lvl 3 silence/level 3 cel). Celerity is very good if you can bunny hop and silence is good if you can ambush.
Defense is the best choice for starting chambers imo. Most commanders push armor 1 -> weaps 1 -> weaps 2 -> weaps 3 and then finish researching the armor upgrades afterwards. The upgrades that dcs provide allows a fade (who is basically the whole team) to single-handedly eliminate several marines at once while the marines are getting weapons 2. By that time, however, your second hive should be going up and you should be getting either sc or mc for more upgrades.
Won't somebody think of the cloakers? Oh the cloakers! (like me) <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo--> Ur right though,SC's suck as starting point; but then most games I've seen a DC is slapped down first. Never an SC though. <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo--> SIEGE VS GORGE! WHO WILL WIN! CALL: 0800 999 001 for Seige. CALL: 999 for Gorge.
Get ur whole team to CLOAKWALK... and watch the marines have 3 resnodes TOPS all game <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-SDJason+Feb 12 2005, 04:18 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SDJason @ Feb 12 2005, 04:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> SC first pwns all......and its fun
Get ur whole team to CLOAKWALK... and watch the marines have 3 resnodes TOPS all game <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Fun ****
~Jason <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> umm...no that doesn't really happen usually
SC 1st or 2nd is really dagerous cause onos and fade need both MC and DC. So if u took SC 1st u have to get 3 hives up to handle with a HA train. In my opinion it depends on the comm if sens works or not, he has to drop some obs here and there and support his marines by scanning, thats the way to take sens out
and of course 1 armor up (always anyway)
I prefer MC 1st cause silence is useless if they got MT. and well its great to take out the Marines as silence skulk
thats what I'm saying.. MC is the best first chamber. sensory is like shooting yourself in the foot at the beggining of game, sure you still "Can" win but it just wouldn't be as easy/fun as if you picked a better chamber like MC
sure MC is generally seen to be an 'easier' starting chamber if you want to win the game, but SC can easily be just as fun provided you get three of them.
but of course the word 'fun' is an entirely subjective term.
btw welcome to the forums Scharfzahn <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> but i don't get why you like MC first because silence is useless if they got MT <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Both of these help the 'run up to marine and bite his kneecaps off' aspect of the game.
SCs allow you to see other players, hide, and bite them harder.
These require a player to be slower and think more as to what the marines are doing, where they are going to be going next, what routes they are taking, ect.
Like it or not (And I know I don't, hell knows some of these games could use a different order) Sensory requires a non-rush based tactic.
And that is why they are different.
This does not excuse you from berating the person who put down sensory, unless the tactic was tried many times before with failure. And for the love of whatever higher power you worship, DO NOT do a 'omgwegotsensf4' on the public channel. Everyone expects a non-sensory first, do try not to spoil the surprise.
heres the rule of thumb... if your a gorge, don't drop Sens first your first game on the server.. play a few games, see what the players are like, if they are skilled then bring up the idea in team chat at the beggining of the game ... if they want ti then go for it, but if theres a lot of "nooo " then don't do it.... thats a good way to play it in my opion.
I'm not saying sens is a bad chamber...its just the worse out of the three...
You can't learn comming until you hop in the chair.
and...
You can't learn how to play a chamber without having it dropped first.
Edit: Having it dropped on a first hive.
Now, I can't speak for every player, but I'm free to go out on a limb and say that many people are afraid to try something new, expecially in the public forum, where shame becomes a factor. Many of those who demand a specific chamber first may just not know how to play it any other way, and are embarrassed to lose because everything didn't go their way, chamber wise.
Edit: You know, this all may actually stem from the great Sensory rush that came with the starting weeks of 2.0. Now, I'm not pointing the finger at Avenger here, but I know a few people who have been permantly harmed from having sensory firstly dropped on the first hive twenty games in a row.
Edit: Remember when there were forums to actually lock the upgrade order to DMS? Single-minded people, those were.
<!--QuoteBegin-j3st+Feb 14 2005, 05:22 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (j3st @ Feb 14 2005, 05:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> btw welcome to the forums Scharfzahn <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> but i don't get why you like MC first because silence is useless if they got MT <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> well i mean if alien got MC 1st they can use silence before MT is ready, if u drop mc 2nd or 3rd theres a greater chance that MT is already researched.
Right now sensory is horrible, but I have a feeling after looking at the changelog for B6 that it's going to be a lot better and a lot more people are going to like it.
then I will try it out in multiple ways, evaluate it, and see if its any good. but until then I stand by my saying that I don't like sens first. theres certain tactics you can use with it to win a game, but as a whole it hurts your team in the long run in my humble opinoin
Sens provides nothing against elec, whereas DC (regen) and MC (Adren) assit in killing Eleced PGs, RTs and TFs.
IF sensory helped kill eleced stuff in some way, perhaps Make the chamber itself immune to electrical damage and make the electrified building fire all its charges at the SC. That way for a 20 res invenstment (gorge+Sc) you could disable the Elecy on the Structure so the skulks could eat it.(yum)
ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
People actually use electricity? When the heck did THAT happen? For the price of an elec, I am give my marines a level 2 upgrade, or 3 shotties, or 6 welders. Hmm...minimally protect one small area...or give my mobile turrets (marines) a lot more firepower (enough to kill skulks with one hit, gg no carapace). It SURE is a tough choice.
To all those whom say that Sc kills fades, I tend to getmore kills with SoF then I do with regen or cara, also I do not know what your team is doing with a one hive fade or onos. SoF fade can tip the balence in your favour quite easily, you can sneak up on rines alot easyer with both SoF or Cloaking, and you know which marines are alone go for them. If your playing on a pub there is quite a high chance that theres gonna be a person ramboing wheather he thinks hes good, RT guy or complete newb. What really annoys the comm is picking of lone shotties or theshotties on in the rear of a small pack. Also early game info is vital, if you all build defences exoecting to weacon armour a PG Siege rush will completly screw you over. Sensories can also prevent the ninja PG.
<!--QuoteBegin-Church+Feb 21 2005, 02:44 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Church @ Feb 21 2005, 02:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> People actually use electricity? When the heck did THAT happen? For the price of an elec, I am give my marines a level 2 upgrade, or 3 shotties, or 6 welders. Hmm...minimally protect one small area...or give my mobile turrets (marines) a lot more firepower (enough to kill skulks with one hit, gg no carapace). It SURE is a tough choice. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> O.o
it happened in a pug i played last year. The marines figured out that we had sens first and rushed armor1. Then, instead of getting weapon ups, they started to elec their nodes. MY team was like OMGWTHFF WE're SCREWEd. We managed to get the second hive up, and get dcs. But we still got pwnzored by elec nodes >_< (well the 45 minute time limit expired) and pg/mine/obs setups that ruined our chances of getting a hive. Both teams had experienced clanners but we lost because their comm was always on top of things.
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 7 2005, 03:12 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 7 2005, 03:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> here is the one and only time you should get sens first .... when you want to make the game harder for yourself and want to struggle for victory if not lose. thats the only time you should get a sens
here is why sens is the worse chamber to get
1) all the abillities are easy to counter for marines
a- Cloack is easily countered with Motion Tracking b- Focus is easily countered with Armor 1 upgrade c- sof only levels the playing field out if they have MT so it doesn't help all that much
getting MC is much better
A- Celerity is not counterable execpt by getting better shooting marines, it matches the aliens skill VS the marines skill, not the marines tech VS the aliens tech. thus, all the good plays should get Celerity to out match their openents in skill
B- Silence is not counterable , unlike Cloack silince enables aliens to fool the most importent marine of all. the commander, I've led dozens of skulk rushes where we sneak into an empty marine start early game and silently chomp the CC before the com even notices
C- Adren also has no easy counter, the fact that you can have more attacks is simply a great advantage. great for BB gorges and Sporing Lerks
2) the order of hive chambers is terrible with sens first
a- you will need to get DC at least first or second hive, by the time you have a 2cd hive , marines start getting HMGs , its impossible for Aliens to function without fade's and other upper level life forms using a DC upgrade. but if you get sensory first then DC , you will have to run between hives in case either one is attacked, those seconds that you have to run from hive to hive can be the diffrence in stopping a siego or phase gate rush.
b- if you get in a double hive lock down, sensory is near-impossible to use to break a base to free a hive.
getting MC is much better
A- if you get MCs first you will enable your skulks to kill more marines, the R4k gained by this can be used for a skilled skulk to get a quick second hive and BAM you get DCs , because you got MCs first it is easy to go from one hive to another, making it easier to secure RTs and hive locations.
B- a double hive lockdown is hard to get out of with MCs as well. but I find that Celerity Fades are better off then any Sens upgrade
I hope I've been able to convince you that Sensory is a horrible first hive chamber and should never be recieved first.. thank you
MC is the best hive chamber, if you have a skilled team , g MDS for the win every time <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> 1)Cloak isn't detectable by MT, so what if you have to walk a little bit to ambush.
2)Focus isn't totally countered by armor 1. Focus COUNTERS medspam. If an armor 1 marine has a focus bite taken out of him he needs a welder as well as meds to heal him. Forcing the team to buy a couple of welders can put a damper on commander plans.
3)Labeling SoF as the same upgrade as MT, but denouncing it because its aliens? SoF can prevent ninja phases by simply knowing where the enemy is.
Silence IS countered by Motion Tracking, I have no idea why you think otherwise. Celerity is a good upgrade, but without carapace the skulks are still weak Adrenaline is effective, but skulks are still weak against marines.
first hive sensory with a sens network can be devestating. Focus combined with lerk spores (GG teamwork) can devestate a marine team by forcing them to buy welders earlier than usual.
Are their flaws to sensory first? Yes. Are there enough to justify never using it first, no.
Your arguement is inadequate at best, considering you never even attempt to explain a sens network, and your "counters" (or lack their of) are wrong.
Please learn more about the game before posting strategy guides that restricts using an effective strategy based on your limited experience.
listen buddy. I've played dozens of sens first games. and I've won and lost a few. I'm just saying that MC first is 10X better then anything. but when B6 comes out maybe that'll change since sens is getting a big boost in there. but if you think sens first is the best... then you are crazy
1.I admit it has its counters but you should not the rines know of sc untill you need to, try to fool the marines into thinking you a different chamber, if you did it roight they should not know you had SC untill they realise that all 3 hives are empty but you should have more then one hive my then
2.Fades cannot take 5-6 marines with any sens up however your team should not be fading w/o a new hive
3. MT is not the 100 counter to SC as I have Fooled the marines so many times it isn't funny, just stay on the radar a bit, then cloak in a commen camping spot. You have just cloaked without MT rines knowing it and by the time he notices your not there you will be on the other side of the map
4. If the marines have rushed weps and shottie they are dead if you have sensery simple becuase you can pick them off with some focusers and SoF scouts and make sure your guys with SoF paras marines every no and then.
5. It does however require an organised team, not however a skilled team, and relies on teamwork, without it your dead.
6. It is one of the least expected tactics If you played it right the rines should have no time to get MT and armour.
7. There are only a few ways the marines can detect cloaking someone. Uncloak straight infront of a marine, focus kill a marine (focus is unrecomended in any circumstances in NS mode unless you one of the two high lifeforms), scanning and seeing a sens chamber, or you cloaked in a bad spot.
<!--QuoteBegin-miniman+Feb 22 2005, 12:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (miniman @ Feb 22 2005, 12:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I tend to win most sens first.
1.I admit it has its counters but you should not the rines know of sc untill you need to, try to fool the marines into thinking you a different chamber, if you did it roight they should not know you had SC untill they realise that all 3 hives are empty but you should have more then one hive my then
2.Fades cannot take 5-6 marines with any sens up however your team should not be fading w/o a new hive
3. MT is not the 100 counter to SC as I have Fooled the marines so many times it isn't funny, just stay on the radar a bit, then cloak in a commen camping spot. You have just cloaked without MT rines knowing it and by the time he notices your not there you will be on the other side of the map
4. If the marines have rushed weps and shottie they are dead if you have sensery simple becuase you can pick them off with some focusers and SoF scouts and make sure your guys with SoF paras marines every no and then.
5. It does however require an organised team, not however a skilled team, and relies on teamwork, without it your dead.
6. It is one of the least expected tactics If you played it right the rines should have no time to get MT and armour.
7. There are only a few ways the marines can detect cloaking someone. Uncloak straight infront of a marine, focus kill a marine (focus is unrecomended in any circumstances in NS mode unless you one of the two high lifeforms), scanning and seeing a sens chamber, or you cloaked in a bad spot. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> any comm with half a brain will listen to a hive or drop a ammo pack on it to see if its there or not. so its not like it's all that much of a surprise. if he doesn't see the hive but knows it there, he knows you have sense. its not that hard to uncover the fact that aliens have sens.
Sensory first isn't expected, so comms don't look for it. Also, usually comms will look for the hive in the first few seconds, when there aren't any sensory chambers. Plus, the starting hive probably shouldn't have a sensory chamber in it, it should be out somewhere providing cloaking for marines.
All though I find SC fun and exciting it is really easy to counter.
First I get 2 obs in base. This is to provide a decent energy base for constant pings. Then I get armor 1. After that I should be at a hive so I throw down some turrets, an rt, and an obs. Move onto the next hive. TF, RT, OBs. No chance of "ninja"-ing a hive up. Less of a chance for ambushes.
<!--QuoteBegin-Traken+Feb 21 2005, 10:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Traken @ Feb 21 2005, 10:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> All though I find SC fun and exciting it is really easy to counter.
First I get 2 obs in base. This is to provide a decent energy base for constant pings. Then I get armor 1. After that I should be at a hive so I throw down some turrets, an rt, and an obs. Move onto the next hive. TF, RT, OBs. No chance of "ninja"-ing a hive up. Less of a chance for ambushes.
<!--emo&::tsa::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tsa.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tsa.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Assuming you succeed in locking down the second hive, that is.
<!--QuoteBegin-Traken+Feb 22 2005, 05:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Traken @ Feb 22 2005, 05:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> All though I find SC fun and exciting it is really easy to counter.
First I get 2 obs in base. This is to provide a decent energy base for constant pings. Then I get armor 1. After that I should be at a hive so I throw down some turrets, an rt, and an obs. Move onto the next hive. TF, RT, OBs. No chance of "ninja"-ing a hive up. Less of a chance for ambushes.
<!--emo&::tsa::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tsa.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tsa.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Again, the sensories most devestating factor is that comms do not prepare for it, also what you sayed would cost 200 res, that is just not plaseable in the early game before the aliens get the second hive also you need to get an ip and armoury armslab which inturn costs 55 res taking the cost to 255 again NOT plauseable. Also in order to even accumilate that my res intime you would need quite a few RTs at 15 res each.
<!--QuoteBegin-miniman+Feb 22 2005, 01:40 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (miniman @ Feb 22 2005, 01:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Traken+Feb 22 2005, 05:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Traken @ Feb 22 2005, 05:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> All though I find SC fun and exciting it is really easy to counter.
First I get 2 obs in base. This is to provide a decent energy base for constant pings. Then I get armor 1. After that I should be at a hive so I throw down some turrets, an rt, and an obs. Move onto the next hive. TF, RT, OBs. No chance of "ninja"-ing a hive up. Less of a chance for ambushes.
<!--emo&::tsa::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tsa.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tsa.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Again, the sensories most devestating factor is that comms do not prepare for it, also what you sayed would cost 200 res, that is just not plaseable in the early game before the aliens get the second hive also you need to get an ip and armoury armslab which inturn costs 55 res taking the cost to 255 again NOT plauseable. Also in order to even accumilate that my res intime you would need quite a few RTs at 15 res each. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If they've got SCs, then get a couple shotguns, armor1, scan often, and you won't have to worry about fades stopping any organized push. That way you can take 2 hives early, guaranteeing a decent amount of res, and basically stopping the aliens from doing much. You can secure those areas, take the rest of the map, and the aliens don't have a chance. Unless the aliens start out with the middle hive, you only have to secure the middle hive, since every time you kill an alien, they will have to reevolve and spend time walking across a map you mostly control, in order to get the far hive, or they will have to attack passive and active defense at the middle hive.
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 21 2005, 11:50 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 21 2005, 11:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> listen buddy. I've played dozens of sens first games. and I've won and lost a few. I'm just saying that MC first is 10X better then anything. but when B6 comes out maybe that'll change since sens is getting a big boost in there. but if you think sens first is the best... then you are crazy <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Crazy enough to play for terror, who has executed the sensory first strategy.
And are you all crazy? Hive 1 adren skulks are WAY better than any of the SC upgrades <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-im lost+Feb 7 2005, 04:55 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (im lost @ Feb 7 2005, 04:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Unless there happens to be a sensory chamber anywhere nearby, in which case the alien can run full speed and still be cloaked. If aliens don't have sensory chambers all over the territory they control, and somewhere nearby contested areas, they aren't using it right. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Exactly. Considering sensory chambers are invisible, they should be put anywhere that a rine isn't likely to stumble upon them. If you set up enough sensory chambers, you can go pretty much anywhere you want and be invisible the whole time (unless you want to attack). Probably the most irritating thing I've ever faced is a bunch of invisible skulks running along the ceiling. I can hear them, I just can't see them, and if I fire wildy as soon as I reload I'm dead, so if I don't hit I'm a goner.
Comments
1) where to place the chambers so skulks can cloak when they're near them
2) how to ambush
3) what focus is
4) has good teamwork
Otherwise its <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo--> GG
Movement is better? Hmm its hard to say... Generally, you want to set up 3 ASAP if your team decides to get movements first so you can max upgrades (lvl 3 silence/level 3 cel). Celerity is very good if you can bunny hop and silence is good if you can ambush.
Defense is the best choice for starting chambers imo. Most commanders push armor 1 -> weaps 1 -> weaps 2 -> weaps 3 and then finish researching the armor upgrades afterwards. The upgrades that dcs provide allows a fade (who is basically the whole team) to single-handedly eliminate several marines at once while the marines are getting weapons 2. By that time, however, your second hive should be going up and you should be getting either sc or mc for more upgrades.
Ur right though,SC's suck as starting point; but then most games I've seen a DC is slapped down first. Never an SC though.
<!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo--> SIEGE VS GORGE! WHO WILL WIN!
CALL: 0800 999 001 for Seige.
CALL: 999 for Gorge.
Get ur whole team to CLOAKWALK... and watch the marines have 3 resnodes TOPS all game <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Fun ****
~Jason
Get ur whole team to CLOAKWALK... and watch the marines have 3 resnodes TOPS all game <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Fun ****
~Jason <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
umm...no that doesn't really happen usually
So if u took SC 1st u have to get 3 hives up to handle with a HA train.
In my opinion it depends on the comm if sens works or not, he has to drop some obs here and there and support his marines by scanning, thats the way to take sens out
and of course 1 armor up (always anyway)
I prefer MC 1st cause silence is useless if they got MT. and well its great to take out the Marines as silence skulk
u can see cloaked but u cant hear silenced ^^
but of course the word 'fun' is an entirely subjective term.
btw welcome to the forums Scharfzahn <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> but i don't get why you like MC first because silence is useless if they got MT <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
DC allows you to take more damage.
Both of these help the 'run up to marine and bite his kneecaps off' aspect of the game.
SCs allow you to see other players, hide, and bite them harder.
These require a player to be slower and think more as to what the marines are doing, where they are going to be going next, what routes they are taking, ect.
Like it or not (And I know I don't, hell knows some of these games could use a different order) Sensory requires a non-rush based tactic.
And that is why they are different.
This does not excuse you from berating the person who put down sensory, unless the tactic was tried many times before with failure. And for the love of whatever higher power you worship, DO NOT do a 'omgwegotsensf4' on the public channel. Everyone expects a non-sensory first, do try not to spoil the surprise.
I'm not saying sens is a bad chamber...its just the worse out of the three...
You can't learn comming until you hop in the chair.
and...
You can't learn how to play a chamber without having it dropped first.
Edit: Having it dropped on a first hive.
Now, I can't speak for every player, but I'm free to go out on a limb and say that many people are afraid to try something new, expecially in the public forum, where shame becomes a factor. Many of those who demand a specific chamber first may just not know how to play it any other way, and are embarrassed to lose because everything didn't go their way, chamber wise.
Edit: You know, this all may actually stem from the great Sensory rush that came with the starting weeks of 2.0. Now, I'm not pointing the finger at Avenger here, but I know a few people who have been permantly harmed from having sensory firstly dropped on the first hive twenty games in a row.
Edit: Remember when there were forums to actually lock the upgrade order to DMS? Single-minded people, those were.
*listens to chamber music*
btw welcome to the forums Scharfzahn <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> but i don't get why you like MC first because silence is useless if they got MT <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
well i mean if alien got MC 1st they can use silence before MT is ready, if u drop mc 2nd or 3rd theres a greater chance that MT is already researched.
then I will try it out in multiple ways, evaluate it, and see if its any good. but until then I stand by my saying that I don't like sens first. theres certain tactics you can use with it to win a game, but as a whole it hurts your team in the long run in my humble opinoin
IF sensory helped kill eleced stuff in some way, perhaps Make the chamber itself immune to electrical damage and make the electrified building fire all its charges at the SC. That way for a 20 res invenstment (gorge+Sc) you could disable the Elecy on the Structure so the skulks could eat it.(yum)
~Jason
O.o
it happened in a pug i played last year. The marines figured out that we had sens first and rushed armor1. Then, instead of getting weapon ups, they started to elec their nodes. MY team was like OMGWTHFF WE're SCREWEd. We managed to get the second hive up, and get dcs. But we still got pwnzored by elec nodes >_< (well the 45 minute time limit expired) and pg/mine/obs setups that ruined our chances of getting a hive. Both teams had experienced clanners but we lost because their comm was always on top of things.
here is why sens is the worse chamber to get
1) all the abillities are easy to counter for marines
a- Cloack is easily countered with Motion Tracking
b- Focus is easily countered with Armor 1 upgrade
c- sof only levels the playing field out if they have MT so it doesn't help all that much
getting MC is much better
A- Celerity is not counterable execpt by getting better shooting marines, it matches the aliens skill VS the marines skill, not the marines tech VS the aliens tech. thus, all the good plays should get Celerity to out match their openents in skill
B- Silence is not counterable , unlike Cloack silince enables aliens to fool the most importent marine of all. the commander, I've led dozens of skulk rushes where we sneak into an empty marine start early game and silently chomp the CC before the com even notices
C- Adren also has no easy counter, the fact that you can have more attacks is simply a great advantage. great for BB gorges and Sporing Lerks
2) the order of hive chambers is terrible with sens first
a- you will need to get DC at least first or second hive, by the time you have a 2cd hive , marines start getting HMGs , its impossible for Aliens to function without fade's and other upper level life forms using a DC upgrade. but if you get sensory first then DC , you will have to run between hives in case either one is attacked, those seconds that you have to run from hive to hive can be the diffrence in stopping a siego or phase gate rush.
b- if you get in a double hive lock down, sensory is near-impossible to use to break a base to free a hive.
getting MC is much better
A- if you get MCs first you will enable your skulks to kill more marines, the R4k gained by this can be used for a skilled skulk to get a quick second hive and BAM you get DCs , because you got MCs first it is easy to go from one hive to another, making it easier to secure RTs and hive locations.
B- a double hive lockdown is hard to get out of with MCs as well. but I find that Celerity Fades are better off then any Sens upgrade
I hope I've been able to convince you that Sensory is a horrible first hive chamber and should never be recieved first.. thank you
MC is the best hive chamber, if you have a skilled team , g MDS for the win every time <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
1)Cloak isn't detectable by MT, so what if you have to walk a little bit to ambush.
2)Focus isn't totally countered by armor 1. Focus COUNTERS medspam. If an armor 1 marine has a focus bite taken out of him he needs a welder as well as meds to heal him. Forcing the team to buy a couple of welders can put a damper on commander plans.
3)Labeling SoF as the same upgrade as MT, but denouncing it because its aliens?
SoF can prevent ninja phases by simply knowing where the enemy is.
Silence IS countered by Motion Tracking, I have no idea why you think otherwise.
Celerity is a good upgrade, but without carapace the skulks are still weak
Adrenaline is effective, but skulks are still weak against marines.
first hive sensory with a sens network can be devestating. Focus combined with lerk spores (GG teamwork) can devestate a marine team by forcing them to buy welders earlier than usual.
Are their flaws to sensory first? Yes. Are there enough to justify never using it first, no.
Your arguement is inadequate at best, considering you never even attempt to explain a sens network, and your "counters" (or lack their of) are wrong.
Please learn more about the game before posting strategy guides that restricts using an effective strategy based on your limited experience.
Thanks!
1.I admit it has its counters but you should not the rines know of sc untill you need to, try to fool the marines into thinking you a different chamber, if you did it roight they should not know you had SC untill they realise that all 3 hives are empty but you should have more then one hive my then
2.Fades cannot take 5-6 marines with any sens up however your team should not be fading w/o a new hive
3. MT is not the 100 counter to SC as I have Fooled the marines so many times it isn't funny, just stay on the radar a bit, then cloak in a commen camping spot. You have just cloaked without MT rines knowing it and by the time he notices your not there you will be on the other side of the map
4. If the marines have rushed weps and shottie they are dead if you have sensery
simple becuase you can pick them off with some focusers and SoF scouts and make sure your guys with SoF paras marines every no and then.
5. It does however require an organised team, not however a skilled team, and relies on teamwork, without it your dead.
6. It is one of the least expected tactics If you played it right the rines should have no time to get MT and armour.
7. There are only a few ways the marines can detect cloaking someone. Uncloak straight infront of a marine, focus kill a marine (focus is unrecomended in any circumstances in NS mode unless you one of the two high lifeforms), scanning and seeing a sens chamber, or you cloaked in a bad spot.
1.I admit it has its counters but you should not the rines know of sc untill you need to, try to fool the marines into thinking you a different chamber, if you did it roight they should not know you had SC untill they realise that all 3 hives are empty but you should have more then one hive my then
2.Fades cannot take 5-6 marines with any sens up however your team should not be fading w/o a new hive
3. MT is not the 100 counter to SC as I have Fooled the marines so many times it isn't funny, just stay on the radar a bit, then cloak in a commen camping spot. You have just cloaked without MT rines knowing it and by the time he notices your not there you will be on the other side of the map
4. If the marines have rushed weps and shottie they are dead if you have sensery
simple becuase you can pick them off with some focusers and SoF scouts and make sure your guys with SoF paras marines every no and then.
5. It does however require an organised team, not however a skilled team, and relies on teamwork, without it your dead.
6. It is one of the least expected tactics If you played it right the rines should have no time to get MT and armour.
7. There are only a few ways the marines can detect cloaking someone. Uncloak straight infront of a marine, focus kill a marine (focus is unrecomended in any circumstances in NS mode unless you one of the two high lifeforms), scanning and seeing a sens chamber, or you cloaked in a bad spot. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
any comm with half a brain will listen to a hive or drop a ammo pack on it to see if its there or not. so its not like it's all that much of a surprise. if he doesn't see the hive but knows it there, he knows you have sense. its not that hard to uncover the fact that aliens have sens.
First I get 2 obs in base. This is to provide a decent energy base for constant pings. Then I get armor 1. After that I should be at a hive so I throw down some turrets, an rt, and an obs. Move onto the next hive. TF, RT, OBs. No chance of "ninja"-ing a hive up. Less of a chance for ambushes.
<!--emo&::tsa::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tsa.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tsa.gif' /><!--endemo-->
First I get 2 obs in base. This is to provide a decent energy base for constant pings. Then I get armor 1. After that I should be at a hive so I throw down some turrets, an rt, and an obs. Move onto the next hive. TF, RT, OBs. No chance of "ninja"-ing a hive up. Less of a chance for ambushes.
<!--emo&::tsa::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tsa.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tsa.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Assuming you succeed in locking down the second hive, that is.
First I get 2 obs in base. This is to provide a decent energy base for constant pings. Then I get armor 1. After that I should be at a hive so I throw down some turrets, an rt, and an obs. Move onto the next hive. TF, RT, OBs. No chance of "ninja"-ing a hive up. Less of a chance for ambushes.
<!--emo&::tsa::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tsa.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tsa.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again, the sensories most devestating factor is that comms do not prepare for it, also what you sayed would cost 200 res, that is just not plaseable in the early game before the aliens get the second hive also you need to get an ip and armoury armslab which inturn costs 55 res taking the cost to 255 again NOT plauseable. Also in order to even accumilate that my res intime you would need quite a few RTs at 15 res each.
First I get 2 obs in base. This is to provide a decent energy base for constant pings. Then I get armor 1. After that I should be at a hive so I throw down some turrets, an rt, and an obs. Move onto the next hive. TF, RT, OBs. No chance of "ninja"-ing a hive up. Less of a chance for ambushes.
<!--emo&::tsa::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tsa.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tsa.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again, the sensories most devestating factor is that comms do not prepare for it, also what you sayed would cost 200 res, that is just not plaseable in the early game before the aliens get the second hive also you need to get an ip and armoury armslab which inturn costs 55 res taking the cost to 255 again NOT plauseable. Also in order to even accumilate that my res intime you would need quite a few RTs at 15 res each. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If they've got SCs, then get a couple shotguns, armor1, scan often, and you won't have to worry about fades stopping any organized push. That way you can take 2 hives early, guaranteeing a decent amount of res, and basically stopping the aliens from doing much. You can secure those areas, take the rest of the map, and the aliens don't have a chance. Unless the aliens start out with the middle hive, you only have to secure the middle hive, since every time you kill an alien, they will have to reevolve and spend time walking across a map you mostly control, in order to get the far hive, or they will have to attack passive and active defense at the middle hive.
Crazy enough to play for terror, who has executed the sensory first strategy.
Though I don't expect you to know who they are.
And are you all crazy? Hive 1 adren skulks are WAY better than any of the SC upgrades <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Exactly. Considering sensory chambers are invisible, they should be put anywhere that a rine isn't likely to stumble upon them. If you set up enough sensory chambers, you can go pretty much anywhere you want and be invisible the whole time (unless you want to attack). Probably the most irritating thing I've ever faced is a bunch of invisible skulks running along the ceiling. I can hear them, I just can't see them, and if I fire wildy as soon as I reload I'm dead, so if I don't hit I'm a goner.