The Return Of Pop-ups!

SkulkBaitSkulkBait Join Date: 2003-02-11 Member: 13423Members
<div class="IPBDescription">The arms race is on!</div> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Pop-up blocker no longer working: Not just Safari, 10.3.8, or Macs

Yesterday, in our Mac OS X 10.3.8 coverage, we noted a few reports of users seeing pop-up ads in Safari since installing the 10.3.8 Update, even though Safari's "Block Pop-Up Windows" feature is enabled. Since then we've been buried by reader confirmations of such issues -- one of the most overwhelming responses to a specific issue we've ever had. Based on those responses, as noted below, we've moved this topic into its own article. As we'll explain, the problem appears to be only coincidentally related to OS X 10.3.8 and is not isolated to Safari.

Pop-unders, not pop-ups Our original article, reflecting the reports of readers, called these browser windows pop-ups. Although a few readers have indeed seen pop-up ads recently, the overwhelming consensus of readers is that pop-under ads -- windows that open behind the current browser window -- are the real issue.

Not just Mac OS X 10.3.8 Initial reader reports, covered yesterday, claimed this issue arose with the installation of Mac OS X 10.3.8; however, it appears that this is simply a coincidence -- these "unblockable" pop-under ads just happened to start appearing around the time that 10.3.8 was released. We've come to this conclusion because a significant number of MacFixIt readers who haven't updated to 10.3.8 -- running everything from 10.3.4 to 10.3.7 -- are also seeing these ads. (A MacFixIt computer still running 10.3.5 has also experienced this issue over the past week or so.) We've also received identical reports from users of 10.2.x (Jaguar), and even a few from users of OS X 10.1.x (who are running other browsers with pop-up blocking features -- see below). The incidence of these pop-under ads has been increasing since their apparent "debut" a few weeks ago.

Not just Safari Contrary to initial reports, this problem isn't limited to Safari; subsequent reports have noted pop-under ads victimizing a number of browsers that provide pop-up-blocking features, including the latest versions of Safari, FireFox, Mozilla, OmniWeb, and Camino.

Not just Macs Reader Dan Kelly notes that the issue also isn't limited to Mac browsers: "Recently I have found a similar issue with pop-ups in Firefox on my work PC. It may be that the advertisers have discovered a way around the blockers, rather than an issue with Safari itself."

Apparent new ad technologies Since this issue is not limited to Mac OS X 10.3.8, Safari, or even Macs, it seems pretty clear that the real issue is not the Mac OS X 10.3.8 Update, but rather that Web advertisers have figured out a way to get around increasingly popular pop-up blockers. As reader Sandro writes, "As a web developer I have seen JavaScript workarounds for popup blockers so I’m thinking...that the popup ad makers have gotten wise."

For example, Brian Fountain sent links to two interesting discussions (link 1, link 2) on how to subvert pop-up blockers. The details of these techniques don't seem to describe the specific pop-under ads being described by MacFixIt readers, but the information provides some insight into the trends in Web advertising.

Some ad companies are even bragging about their ability to subvert pop-up blockers. For example, popuptraffic.com features the following blurb on their home page:

"Due to the proliferation of Popupblockers we have altered our popup code so that if a blocker is detected a layer ad will be delivered. This will increase your overall daily impressions and revenues."

Users report seeing these pop-under ads on many different sites, but in reader email to MacFixIt, the most frequently mentioned sites have been macosrumors.com, macdailynews.com, howstuffworks.com, and drudgereport.com. (We don't mean to imply that these sites are any worse than other sites; rather, the advertisers of these sites appear to be using these new, pop-up-blocker-subverting tricks. Many other sites were also reported, but for whatever reason more MacFixIt readers visit these particular sites and are thus reporting them.)

Why ads don't show up every time a site is visited A number of readers have wondered why these ads don't appear every time they visit a particular site. Other readers found that after trying some trick, the next time they visited a site the ads didn't appear, thus leading them to believe that they'd found a "fix." Note that most of these sites use cookies to determine if you've already "seen" their pop-up or pop-under ads, so once the ad appears, you will not see it again until the next hour/day/week/etc. (whatever time period the site or ad provider have chosen). Some users have misinterpreted this behavior as a reflection that something they've done has "prevented" seeing ads, but the reality is that the site has simply fulfilled its hourly/daily/weekly ad quota for those users.

Avoiding such ads Until Web browser developers figure out a way to block these new ads, MacFixIt readers have suggested a few ways to avoid pop-unders:

    * Disable JavaScript in your browser In our testing at MacFixIt, this does appear to prevent most pop-under ads; however, it also means that you lose desired JavaScript functionality.
    * "Post-date" your cookies Using a procedure that's likely more trouble than it's worth, you can "timestamp" your cookies with a date in the future; because of the way in which cookies are used by advertisers, described in the previous section, the site will thus think that you're not "due" for an ad until the future date. Because this procedure has to be repeated for every site with pop-up ads, we don't feel it's worth explaining -- it takes less time to simply close the offending ad.
    * Use a custom hosts file A hosts file, if present, overrides any DNS server in associating a particular URL with a particular IP address. If you have a hosts file that takes known ad server URLs (e.g., ads.doubleclick.net) and directs them to your own computer (127.0.0.1), those servers will never be contacted and, thus, you'll never see their ads. A number of sites have collected the URLs of known advertising servers and created downloadable hosts files. For example, the Mike's Ad Blocking Hosts file site provides a link to such a file and instructions for installing it (scroll down to "Linux/Unix/Mac OSX").

Safari pop-up blocker still working well for pop-ups Despite all the frustration users are experiencing with pop-under ads, many MacFixIt readers report that Safari's pop-up blocker is still working very well. The true test of its efficacy is to surf with the blocker disabled, or to use a computer that doesn't have Safari. As Roger Steen explains, "I still have a computer operating on OS 9.2.2 with IE, and that has tons of pop-ups coming through when I surf, so I know that Safari is catching most." <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
--http://www.macfixit.com/article.php?story=20050218022511830

Much like with spam, advertisers insist on **** everybody off and so we're now in a pop-up arms race.

Comments

  • GeminosityGeminosity :3 Join Date: 2003-09-08 Member: 20667Members
    To this day the whole point of pop-ups/pop-unders/any ad that opens a new window or appears over content evades me. people HATE them.
    They don't really up customer awareness as most people kill them without even bothering to look at the content. It's frigging stupid ><
  • 0blique0blique Join Date: 2003-05-18 Member: 16477Members
    Well, someone must be clicking on these ads and buying these products, since people keep spending all this money to make and distribute these ads. It's just like spam- you'd think that everyone would just delete it without reading it, but then you hear stories about people making millions of $$ off of spam, so there must be plenty of people who buy that stuff.
  • SkulkBaitSkulkBait Join Date: 2003-02-11 Member: 13423Members
    edited February 2005
    <!--QuoteBegin-Geminosity+Feb 20 2005, 11:23 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Geminosity @ Feb 20 2005, 11:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> To this day the whole point of pop-ups/pop-unders/any ad that opens a new window or appears over content evades me.  people HATE them. 
    They don't really up customer awareness as most people kill them without even bothering to look at the content.  It's frigging stupid >< <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Its just like spam though. Theres that .0001% of people who see that ad that are going to go "Yeah! I need a larger <i>member</i>!" and, unfortunatly, since these ads don't cost per-pop-up they are actually profitable. So once again, the morons screw it up for everybody, thanks guys!

    Anyway, a good combination for firefox seems to be to use <a href='http://adblock.mozdev.org/' target='_blank'>Adblock</a> and <a href='http://www.geocities.com/pierceive/adblock/' target='_blank'>updated filter definitions</a>.

    The filter definitions site is down, so I found the latest filter I could via the magic of Google Cache:

    Edit: To use filter with adblock:
    1. Download and install Adblock
    2. Restart Firefox
    3. Download 2005_02_14a.txt
    4. In Firefox: Tools->Extentions, click on "Adblock" and then "Options"
    5. Click on "Adblock Options" and select "Import filter"
    6. Select "2005_02_14a.txt" and click "Open"
    7. Read the warning, click either OK or Cancel
    8. Click "Done"
  • im_lostim_lost TWG Rule Guru Join Date: 2003-04-26 Member: 15861Members
    edited February 2005
    From what it says near the end of the document, it sounds like Firefox's Adblock extension will still block these popunder ads. (I'm guessing it works similar to Mike's Ad Blocking thing that was mentioned.)

    Edit: SkulkBait beat me to it. As for the filter text file, do you just add all of those listings into Adblock?
  • SwiftspearSwiftspear Custim tital Join Date: 2003-10-29 Member: 22097Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-im lost+Feb 20 2005, 11:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (im lost @ Feb 20 2005, 11:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> From what it says near the end of the document, it sounds like Firefox's Adblock extension will still block these popunder ads. (I'm guessing it works similar to Mike's Ad Blocking thing that was mentioned.) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Ya, but I've still seen a few popup adds slip through the FF adblocker. No where near as bad as IE where every page you click 5-6 little popups come up if you don't block them (and even if you do a few will always slip through) but still a few slip through the cracks on firefox.
  • DragonMechDragonMech Join Date: 2003-09-19 Member: 21023Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    I say we just find everybody who makes popups and shoot 'em. Who's with meeeeeeeeeeeeee?
  • TommyVercettiTommyVercetti Join Date: 2003-02-10 Member: 13390Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--QuoteBegin-DragonMech+Feb 20 2005, 11:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DragonMech @ Feb 20 2005, 11:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I say we just find everybody who makes popups and shoot 'em. Who's with meeeeeeeeeeeeee? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Sign me up and get me a lot of 7.62x39mm ammo, and I'll be the first to join.
  • SkulkBaitSkulkBait Join Date: 2003-02-11 Member: 13423Members
    I feel that I should also mention that <a href='http://flashblock.mozdev.org/' target='_blank'>Flashblock</a> might help as well. If anything it will save you bandwidth and cut out all that annoying and useless flash content that permiates the inter-web.
  • cshank4cshank4 Join Date: 2003-02-11 Member: 13425Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-DragonMech+Feb 20 2005, 11:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DragonMech @ Feb 20 2005, 11:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I say we just find everybody who makes popups and shoot 'em. Who's with meeeeeeeeeeeeee? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Can we urinate on the corpses?
  • CronosCronos Join Date: 2002-10-18 Member: 1542Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-cshank4+Feb 21 2005, 11:05 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (cshank4 @ Feb 21 2005, 11:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-DragonMech+Feb 20 2005, 11:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DragonMech @ Feb 20 2005, 11:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I say we just find everybody who makes popups and shoot 'em. Who's with meeeeeeeeeeeeee? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Can we urinate on the corpses? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Scratch that, BURN the corpses, bury them in un-consecrated ground AND DANCE ON THEIR GRAVES!
  • ZeroByteZeroByte Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3057Members
    Technically, these things are interesting though. I actually encountered one last year and my first thought was to marvel at their ingeniuity. What can I say, I'm strange like that.

    To anyone interested, what this popup did was make a self submitting form on the website. When it submitted itself, firefox was tricked into thinking that the user actually submitted something and allowed the popup to appear. Popup blockers usually only block popups that aren't triggered by the user clicking on something or submitting something.
  • im_lostim_lost TWG Rule Guru Join Date: 2003-04-26 Member: 15861Members
    In response to ZeroByte's post, I opened up Configuration Mania to see if there are any helpful options in there. It turns out that you can choose which JavaScript events can open a popup window. A few of the options are "Reset form" and "Submit form." I tried unchecking these boxes. Then I closed and reopened the menu, and they are checked again. A simple solution, yet it doesn't work for me.
  • DY357LXDY357LX Playing since day 1. Still can&#39;t Comm. England Join Date: 2002-10-27 Member: 1651Members, Constellation
    Does this adblock thingy work with the Mozilla suite alright?
    I've aways stuck with this Mozilla suite download.
  • SkulkBaitSkulkBait Join Date: 2003-02-11 Member: 13423Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-The Necroscope+Feb 21 2005, 04:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (The Necroscope @ Feb 21 2005, 04:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Does this adblock thingy work with the Mozilla suite alright?
    I've aways stuck with this Mozilla suite download. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yes.
  • Nil_IQNil_IQ Join Date: 2003-04-15 Member: 15520Members
    Well just think:

    Imagine only 1 in 1000 people are stupid enough to be taken in by spam. Now suppose you send this spam mail to 10,000 people, that's 10 who would be taken in. Suppose this product costs $50, that's $500 revenue. Now how much did the spam cost them to produce? Maybe 10 minutes to make, and one click to send to 10,000 people. That's a $500 profit and a $0 loss.

    Spam makes money because people are stupid. Bear in mind that the amount of people who reply to these ads is, sadly, a lot more than 1 in 1000.
  • BlobbyBlobby Join Date: 2004-06-11 Member: 29234Members
    edited February 2005
    <a href='http://www.proxomitron.info/' target='_blank'>http://www.proxomitron.info/</a>

    This will solve all you problems and then some. It filters content before you browser even begins to interpret it. It also allows you to create you own customization scripts that can filter ANYTHING. Like lets say for example you didn't want to see Quaunaut's posts... you could completely filter them out.
  • MantridMantrid Lockpick Join Date: 2003-12-07 Member: 24109Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Blobby+Feb 21 2005, 03:51 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Blobby @ Feb 21 2005, 03:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <a href='http://www.proxomitron.info/' target='_blank'>http://www.proxomitron.info/</a>

    This will solve all you problems and then some. It filters content before you browser even begins to interpret it. It also allows you to create you own customization scripts that can filter ANYTHING. Like lets say for example you didn't want to see Quaunaut's posts... you could completely filter them out. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Woah woah woah, the technology exists to prevent me from interacting with Quanaut?!




    <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
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