<!--QuoteBegin-Supernorn+Mar 4 2005, 09:30 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Supernorn @ Mar 4 2005, 09:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Its happening for a reason. Things that need to be addressed get ignored or put aside, and things that dont need touching get "fixed" (i.e. Broken) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You're being awfuly generic there. Any specifics and facts to back up that statement?
<!--QuoteBegin-KungFuDiscoMonkey+Mar 4 2005, 09:53 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (KungFuDiscoMonkey @ Mar 4 2005, 09:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Supernorn+Mar 4 2005, 09:30 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Supernorn @ Mar 4 2005, 09:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Its happening for a reason. Things that need to be addressed get ignored or put aside, and things that dont need touching get "fixed" (i.e. Broken) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You're being awfuly generic there. Any specifics and facts to back up that statement? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The 3.0 onos comes to mind...
although I think honestly we can see anything that facilitates more options for mappers as a bonus that is nice but not nesscarily expected.
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
Human beings have a remarkable intolerance to change.
When something that they are used to changes one of two things will happen
1 - They will welcome and embrace the change and see it as a positive step forward in the development of something they have a personal interest in
2 - They will not like and and suddenly things are never as good as they were.
When a change is made and you go the first route, every subsequent change is open as to which way you go, but once you choose the second route you are lost forever and you will never have the same feelings about it.
The likelyhood is the longer you are into something, the more chance there is of you falling out of it.
Yes there are things that people feel are being done wrong, that are being changed but there are at least 2 sides to every opinion and in no way will everyone agree.
Please don't degenerate this discussion into a slagging off of the NS universe and all who work and play in her.
Things have to be done and decisions have to be made. Meats map hasn't made it because of the ent problem and the fact that it doesn't fit in with the feel being created officially. There is no disrespect in that, the fact that it was even considered without being rejected off hand shows how much respect the work has gained.
Meat obviously is still intent on creating the map he wants, as he has now delayed the release until the mod crew have had a chance to see what they can do, and if he can get an idea of how to make it fit visually there is every chance this could go official. So it doesn't fit now, but at least he is trying and people are respecting that, even if it never actually gets there he has achieved more with this than most other people making a foray into the NS community ever will.
If the NS world was falling apart you wouldn't get people making these kinds of efforts, so please if you feel everything is going wrong make a concerted effort to change things for the good, don't nay say everything that is done by the NS team it doesn't help anyone.
<!--QuoteBegin-KungFuDiscoMonkey+Mar 4 2005, 02:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (KungFuDiscoMonkey @ Mar 4 2005, 02:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Supernorn+Mar 4 2005, 08:54 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Supernorn @ Mar 4 2005, 08:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So what they are saying is they dont have the time to code one of the single most needed features of this game. Yeah, that makes sense. I'm really worried about where this mod is going lately, although I'm pretty sure its somewhere down the toilet. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I assure you the NS team is doing a lot better than the ZP team . . . . Serriously what is with all the naysayers lately. The dev team/playtester team/contributers invest hundreds of man hours into a game that hits all kinds of limits and is one of the most unique mods out there, and they upload it for free . . yet everyday there are more and more people complaining about things.
Time is the ultimate limiter for everyone. Especially since noone gets paid, noone can devote all of their time into developing NS as their job. Considering what y'all get for free, I don't think you have any right to complain. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The thing is, they're doing it to some ends, and that's making a kick-arse mod for everyone to enjoy. I don't think a single person here isn't grateful to the massive amounts of time and effort that the dev team has put into the game, it's impossible not to since they have done an awesome job
The things is, ontop of that, there are us, the custom people, mappers, modellers, skinners, artists, etc, we also invest great amounts of time trying to create something awesome that we hope can be a part of the mod (At least as far as mapping is concerned), and that's not just an hour or two here and there, in the case of mapping, it's hours upon hours of work over months, and sometimes, it's a bit frustrating not to even recieve a "Thanks for submitting the map" or "I'll take a look at it and get back to you." Sure, yes, they're busy people, but what's 5-10 minutes to take a quick look around and a reply giving some sort of feedback?
Meat has actually been fortunate enough to get a reply, but there are a number of us who have never even so much recieved that.
Way back, i submitted co_dawn, at the time i thought it was good, now i think it's crap, and i have no idea why i submitted it, but to be honest, that doesn't so much matter now. That map i spent a few hours every day over the space of 2-3 months to work on, it meant something to me, it was my labour and my time that i'd invested into it, but you've no idea how frustrating it is to not even have a "Thanks but no thanks" or even a "I recieved your map."
So in the end, we know they're busy, we know they must get a crapload of submissions, questions and other stuff from enourmous amounts of people, but when you've invested a hell of a long time working on something for their mod in your own free time, for the love of something they created, do you really think asking 5 minutes of their time is really too unreasonable?
<!--QuoteBegin-Soul Rider+Mar 4 2005, 01:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Soul Rider @ Mar 4 2005, 01:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Meat obviously is still intent on creating the map he wants, as he has now delayed the release until the mod crew have had a chance to see what they can do, and if he can get an idea of how to make it fit visually there is every chance this could go official. So it doesn't fit now, but at least he is trying and people are respecting that, even if it never actually gets there he has achieved more with this than most other people making a foray into the NS community ever will. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> i dont actually see that as the real reason tbh, i mean look at the current array of maps and how much they drastically vary from one to another, im sorry but the idea that mine doesnt "fit" the look of the game is utter rubbish, this map has been played by 30+ ppl (testers and contributors) and not one has made this comment b4
i think the main reason is that it wuld take too much effort on their part to implement it and theyre just shifting the blame away from them in that respect, or alternatively its not the type of training map theyre after, maybe there after a hazard course sorta thing i dunno..
anyway the direction i am now currently taking the map in, is basically to have it created in its own mod folder, this doesnt mean a massive increase in filesize tho (a meg at most as steam has a 'fallback' feature so that everything content wise is still taken from the original ns folder), but this means i can release it with metamod (sorting out the build problems and even include bots to mix it up a bit whilst not affecting anyones current metamod setups and titles files) as well as it now coming up under its own name in the game menu (i.e. NS Training), so a new player (which is what this is aimed at), will be able to start it up and press the "start training map" button on the main menu.
currently this is the only way im willing to release the map publically as without a plugin to fix the build times, new players will not make it past the commander section.
anyway stay tuned, the plugin and installer are allready well on there way and ill be following up Nem for a detailed list of "the visual problems"
this map is not dead <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo-->
plugin done (build times fixed), levelchange being implemented tmmrw installer on the way <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Great i cant wait any more plz i wish to see it <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->. Keep up the great work.
it may be when i put the proper build times together with the comm section that sounds still overlap a bit so i may hav to do a bit of tweaking yet, and id like to go thru nemesis zeros suggestions b4 i release it publically, ill keep updating on our progress tho
The range of themes and look of the offical maps gives me reason to call "poor form" on the dev teams part for this response. I don't think ns has a clearly defined theme.. I mean its got squeaky clean new installations (auyumi), rusted up nothing, the plastic combat maps (sava for one), etc... there doesn't really seem to be one clear visual theme for ns. Hope you can get it fixed to the expectations of the devteam. GL.
well ive sent 2 follow up PM's about the list of visual things but still havnt got a response, and as far as im concerned theres nothing wrong with the visuals which leads me to believe they just dont want the map
alltho as KFDM said in the altair thread, u spend so much time working on a map its hard to tell at the end whether it looks good or not
sure u may as well wait with everyone else till the plugins done tho (fixing the build time and the level change), its been made, its just a question of getting round to implementing it and adding an installer/uninstaller
It's like you're some sort of omnipresent, all-seeing NS god or something <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
any status updates for those of us eagerly awaiting the map? <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
im sorry to hear that meat. From the looks of your map from previous screenshots it looks fantastic and i can not see why it would nto be included due to visuals infatc i think of it as the other way around <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Making it a self contained 'mod' almost to fix the need for sv-cheats is a great idea and will allow for complete training <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Ive sent you a pm regarding hosting as well. Goodluck
<!--QuoteBegin-Viper two nine A+Mar 14 2005, 03:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Viper two nine A @ Mar 14 2005, 03:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->any status updates for those of us eagerly awaiting the map? :)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> somone at modns.org made a partitially working plugin to get bots into the game, and make the mapchange work. However that plugin didn't fully work. But with some workarounds and bugfixes, the trainings map is now functional from the technical point of view. Due to the need of an extra mod for this and some weird configuration, it also needed an installer to get installed propery. sorting all the files into the right directoies by hand would be a pain :p anyways, that's done aswell now, aand.. basically Meat only has to finish his work on the map now, and then it's done. last fixes 'n stuff :)
edit: But I'm sure Meat will give you a complete different idea of his timetable ;)
well im going on holiday on saturday so ill do my best to get it done for b4 then, theres really not much to do, its just finding the time to do it <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
edit: looks like ill never fix the sounds tho, i hav no idea wat ever happened to darkhand
i dont think an installer is that much of a problem <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
reading what youve done so far i dont think you will suffer making an installer ... even stupid me could do this %-)
In my humble opinion, installers for <b>maps</b> is just annoying... whoever would want a to see a map in his software list? Why just not zip the entire package and hand it out that way? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Naigel+Mar 16 2005, 02:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Naigel @ Mar 16 2005, 02:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> In my humble opinion, installers for <b>maps</b> is just annoying... whoever would want a to see a map in his software list? Why just not zip the entire package and hand it out that way? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> your forgeting, this 'training map' is for newbs, and who says all newbs know how to install maps through unzipping. not EVERYONE is as geeky as you and I might be.
Id really like to see this whole project come together. It would be a great stand-alone mod and would help out all the new players coming in from the 3.0 final.
the installer is not negotiable, so far i cant even install the sodding thing, we need a metamod and bot plugin to get the map to run, then scripts (yes scripts) to get the plugin to work cos like most ppl who hav worked on this project theyve buggered off half way thru
so far only sorcerer has played the full version, as i cant figure out how to install the damn thing, hence the installer <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Well, im not sure on installing it, but im sure you can go into the Customization thread, im sure one of those NS buffs can see whats up with the sounds.
and that mod may be a good base for some additional training maps.
and dont even think about COOP training mode <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Comments
You're being awfuly generic there. Any specifics and facts to back up that statement?
You're being awfuly generic there. Any specifics and facts to back up that statement? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The 3.0 onos comes to mind...
although I think honestly we can see anything that facilitates more options for mappers as a bonus that is nice but not nesscarily expected.
When something that they are used to changes one of two things will happen
1 - They will welcome and embrace the change and see it as a positive step forward in the development of something they have a personal interest in
2 - They will not like and and suddenly things are never as good as they were.
When a change is made and you go the first route, every subsequent change is open as to which way you go, but once you choose the second route you are lost forever and you will never have the same feelings about it.
The likelyhood is the longer you are into something, the more chance there is of you falling out of it.
Yes there are things that people feel are being done wrong, that are being changed but there are at least 2 sides to every opinion and in no way will everyone agree.
Please don't degenerate this discussion into a slagging off of the NS universe and all who work and play in her.
Things have to be done and decisions have to be made. Meats map hasn't made it because of the ent problem and the fact that it doesn't fit in with the feel being created officially. There is no disrespect in that, the fact that it was even considered without being rejected off hand shows how much respect the work has gained.
Meat obviously is still intent on creating the map he wants, as he has now delayed the release until the mod crew have had a chance to see what they can do, and if he can get an idea of how to make it fit visually there is every chance this could go official. So it doesn't fit now, but at least he is trying and people are respecting that, even if it never actually gets there he has achieved more with this than most other people making a foray into the NS community ever will.
If the NS world was falling apart you wouldn't get people making these kinds of efforts, so please if you feel everything is going wrong make a concerted effort to change things for the good, don't nay say everything that is done by the NS team it doesn't help anyone.
I assure you the NS team is doing a lot better than the ZP team . . . .
Serriously what is with all the naysayers lately. The dev team/playtester team/contributers invest hundreds of man hours into a game that hits all kinds of limits and is one of the most unique mods out there, and they upload it for free . . yet everyday there are more and more people complaining about things.
Time is the ultimate limiter for everyone. Especially since noone gets paid, noone can devote all of their time into developing NS as their job. Considering what y'all get for free, I don't think you have any right to complain. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The thing is, they're doing it to some ends, and that's making a kick-arse mod for everyone to enjoy. I don't think a single person here isn't grateful to the massive amounts of time and effort that the dev team has put into the game, it's impossible not to since they have done an awesome job
The things is, ontop of that, there are us, the custom people, mappers, modellers, skinners, artists, etc, we also invest great amounts of time trying to create something awesome that we hope can be a part of the mod (At least as far as mapping is concerned), and that's not just an hour or two here and there, in the case of mapping, it's hours upon hours of work over months, and sometimes, it's a bit frustrating not to even recieve a "Thanks for submitting the map" or "I'll take a look at it and get back to you." Sure, yes, they're busy people, but what's 5-10 minutes to take a quick look around and a reply giving some sort of feedback?
Meat has actually been fortunate enough to get a reply, but there are a number of us who have never even so much recieved that.
Way back, i submitted co_dawn, at the time i thought it was good, now i think it's crap, and i have no idea why i submitted it, but to be honest, that doesn't so much matter now. That map i spent a few hours every day over the space of 2-3 months to work on, it meant something to me, it was my labour and my time that i'd invested into it, but you've no idea how frustrating it is to not even have a "Thanks but no thanks" or even a "I recieved your map."
So in the end, we know they're busy, we know they must get a crapload of submissions, questions and other stuff from enourmous amounts of people, but when you've invested a hell of a long time working on something for their mod in your own free time, for the love of something they created, do you really think asking 5 minutes of their time is really too unreasonable?
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
i dont actually see that as the real reason tbh, i mean look at the current array of maps and how much they drastically vary from one to another, im sorry but the idea that mine doesnt "fit" the look of the game is utter rubbish, this map has been played by 30+ ppl (testers and contributors) and not one has made this comment b4
i think the main reason is that it wuld take too much effort on their part to implement it and theyre just shifting the blame away from them in that respect, or alternatively its not the type of training map theyre after, maybe there after a hazard course sorta thing i dunno..
anyway the direction i am now currently taking the map in, is basically to have it created in its own mod folder, this doesnt mean a massive increase in filesize tho (a meg at most as steam has a 'fallback' feature so that everything content wise is still taken from the original ns folder), but this means i can release it with metamod (sorting out the build problems and even include bots to mix it up a bit whilst not affecting anyones current metamod setups and titles files) as well as it now coming up under its own name in the game menu (i.e. NS Training), so a new player (which is what this is aimed at), will be able to start it up and press the "start training map" button on the main menu.
currently this is the only way im willing to release the map publically as without a plugin to fix the build times, new players will not make it past the commander section.
anyway stay tuned, the plugin and installer are allready well on there way and ill be following up Nem for a detailed list of "the visual problems"
this map is not dead <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo-->
levelchange being implemented tmmrw
installer on the way <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
(decided against adding bots for the time being)
Keep up the great work.
alltho as KFDM said in the altair thread, u spend so much time working on a map its hard to tell at the end whether it looks good or not
ill pm u a link when its sorted
It's like you're some sort of omnipresent, all-seeing NS god or something <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Making it a self contained 'mod' almost to fix the need for sv-cheats is a great idea and will allow for complete training <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Ive sent you a pm regarding hosting as well. Goodluck
somone at modns.org made a partitially working plugin to get bots into the game, and make the mapchange work. However that plugin didn't fully work.
But with some workarounds and bugfixes, the trainings map is now functional from the technical point of view.
Due to the need of an extra mod for this and some weird configuration, it also needed an installer to get installed propery.
sorting all the files into the right directoies by hand would be a pain :p
anyways, that's done aswell now, aand.. basically Meat only has to finish his work on the map now, and then it's done. last fixes 'n stuff :)
edit: But I'm sure Meat will give you a complete different idea of his timetable ;)
edit: looks like ill never fix the sounds tho, i hav no idea wat ever happened to darkhand
reading what youve done so far i dont think you will suffer making an installer ... even stupid me could do this %-)
your forgeting, this 'training map' is for newbs, and who says all newbs know how to install maps through unzipping. not EVERYONE is as geeky as you and I might be.
so far only sorcerer has played the full version, as i cant figure out how to install the damn thing, hence the installer <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
and dont even think about COOP training mode <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->