MC is the best first chamber because it allows slow, leapless skulks to close with Marines faster. No matter how much cara you have, a Marine down a hall sees you and you can't leap you're going to retreat or die. Sensory is also good, but it kind of forces you to take a defense stance early on as their base and minibases will have obs and if their comm is worth anything he'll scan for his men. A lot.
In my experience, cloaking in b6 works like this: the upgrade gives you 95% cloaking while you are standing still or walking in a straight line, and 70% cloaking while you're running around. Sensory chamber cloaking gives 100% cloaking (read: they <i>will not</i> see you without a scan or extremely lucky guess) regardless of your lifeform or upgrades. 100% cloaked onos devour is obviously very annoying.
It honestly wouldn't matter to me whether SC or MC is the best first chamber as long as DC gets pushed away. I don't care what people say, it is one of the worst first chambers to have. All it does for Skulks and Gorges(who will be the ones actually using it till you get a hive up) is Carapace. Redemption is "ok" for Gorges. It also has the nifty healing radius. That still is nothing compared to an SC and MC which has all of its upgrades and radius (Cloaking and Adren. Boost) useful to everyone up and beyond the first hive.
And what's with the problem with the commanders getting Obs. to combat SC? That takes more res from the Marine team than any other chamber as they have to put down multiple Obs. everywhere. Also it takes time from the Marines as they have to move slower through the map and/or wait for the commander to scan every room. That's also assuming he is a good commander
Well that's all I can think of for right now...
Hey DTE, I thought your avatar looked like a smiley driving some kinda machine sucking up popcorn till I looked a little better.
I've never understood why higher lifeform **** object to getting MCs before DCs. With DCs, you can last longer with cara, but with MCs you can last longer with celerity by getting in and out faster. Regen is helpful for fades that want to blink in, get a marine, get back out, heal, and then get back in the action really fast. But with celerity and no regen, your attacks can be much more productive even if you can't do them as often: you are harder to hit, and you can pull out fast when you need to. And silenced fades are actually very deadly: most people know the fade by its zooming blink and swipe sound: without that fades can slaughter one or two marines before even getting shot once.
As for Onos, celerity helps a LOT in getting away from gunfire after a devour. But then, anyone that goes onos before the second hive goes up is pretty darn lame anyway, unless its a really bad lockdown. And in the case of a lockdown, movements at least allow you to rush a locked down hive, which is more than DCs alone can give you.
SCs still aren't great for higher lifeforms, put as I said, we shouldn't be seeing Onos before second hive, and the wonders of a cloaked fade are still highly recommended (instead of being shot while coming, you can appear out of nowhere, slaughter, and then hide very quickly0
<!--QuoteBegin-TommyVercetti+Mar 5 2005, 10:30 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TommyVercetti @ Mar 5 2005, 10:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> In my experience, cloaking in b6 works like this: the upgrade gives you 95% cloaking while you are standing still or walking in a straight line, and 70% cloaking while you're running around. Sensory chamber cloaking gives 100% cloaking (read: they <i>will not</i> see you without a scan or extremely lucky guess) regardless of your lifeform or upgrades. 100% cloaked onos devour is obviously very annoying. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Not moving with the ability is 100%, it scales down to 70 depending on your speed(I.E. walking is around 90%, holding +use is around 95%, full run is 70%, etc.)
Sigh... time to avoid the publics for a month or so, i forsee sensories used so much they are destroyed again, like when 2.0 was released. Atleast in beta 5 we go DC or MC first with the occasional SC first, but from today onwards for a while its gonna be SC SC SC and nothing but... until they yet again realise, it just doesn't cut it like MC or DC for lastability in the field.
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
Hi guys,
You need to bear in mind timings. In a decent setup, at the same time that first Fade hatches, you should (hopefully!) have a hive just starting to go up. If someone else also has a brain & saves for the 2nd set of chambers, the thinking goes that by the time the marines have got hold of their 'Fade Huntin' Scatterguns, pa!' that those chambers should just about be being dropped.
And the benefit to skulks (which is what you are, 80% of the time anyway) is huge. Innate regen isn't <i>meant</i> to really be useful, but rather a nice bonus that might help occasionally. If it was actually practical, it might usurp DC's/Regen/Healspray, which would be just silly. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
As mentioned above, when not moving (with cloaking upgrade) or in range of SC, aliens are 100% cloaked. With the cloaking upgrade an alien will become 10% visible while walking, and turrets will NOT fire at you. Only once you move faster than walking speed does your cloaking diminish, and it depending on your speed it will make you 30% visible if running at regular speed. If you are a skulk and hopping at faster than normal speed, visibility can increase to a maximum of 40%.
The only time that cloaking is disabled is when you attack or are attacked, if you are in range of an obs, or if you are in the area when it is scanned.
What I'm finding with SC is that it is similar to the way things went when the first SC changes were made way back when... People played SC all the time at first, and marines got owned by it repeatedly. However, people eventually adapted to it, and so the advantage of dropping SC first diminished.
Alcapwn"War is the science of destruction" - John AbbotJoin Date: 2003-06-21Member: 17590Members
Exactly-im sure in a week or two the marines will find a way to even it out with new tactics and stuff.
The game is finally balanced, lets not screw this up. (remember 2.0, when people were biatching about aliens being overpowered...lets not do that again) <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Zek+Mar 4 2005, 05:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zek @ Mar 4 2005, 05:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Innate regen is worthless except in the rare situation where you only died by a margin of a couple bullets in B5, and higher lifeforms are as dependent on DCs as always. However, MCs and SCs got huge buffs in B6 because both of them are much more accessible to skulks, and sensories are obviously somewhat stronger(although the new cloak really isn't much better). In other words, it's much more viable to take MC or SC first for the benefit of your skulks and your team than it was before. Getting upgrades for free at twice the speed of before means that once those chambers are down, EVERY skulk on the team will always have an upgrade, and MC/SC upgrades are better for skulks than DC ones. Movements first gives you celerity and silence for skulks, adren for lerks, and gives you easy access to a building hive if FF is on. Sensories gives you cloaking for skulks, focus for skulks and fades, SoF for everybody else, as well as the cloaking/SoF of a sens network.
In other words, if you follow the same strat that aliens have always followed since 2.0, then DCs are better. MCs/SCs are a better choice if you're willing to alter your tactics a bit.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Good stuff Zek, and so true.
<!--QuoteBegin-NeonSpyder+Mar 5 2005, 05:14 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NeonSpyder @ Mar 5 2005, 05:14 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Silence does not neccesarily suck againts Motion tracking, i mean, how many times as marine do you spontaneously turn around? very very often if you're a good marine, but most marines aren't good. motion tracking won't help you if the aliens aren't in front of you.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is what the minimap is, everyone NEEDs to learn how to use that thing constantly.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> MT shows aliens on the minimap too, so that the marines don't need to turn arround, just pop the map up every once in a while.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->You still want to constantly look behind your back, especially now that Silence is common. Motion tracking costs 35 res, so you won't always have it, especially early game. <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Innate regen is worthless except in the rare situation where you only died by a margin of a couple bullets in B5, and higher lifeforms are as dependent on DCs as always.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Innate regen makes it so that lerks won't need DCs. A lerk is going to stay back and spore/umbra most of the time, so he won't be taking much damage. It's really helpful as a fade, because you'll be able to take out lone marines or small groups of marines, without having to return to the hive. It also really helps hive 1 celerity fades, because they won't take enough damage to have to retreat, unless they are going against SGs or a large group.
I agree that DCs are extremely helpful once the comm starts to pass out heavy weapons regularly, however.
1 day after release i dropped a DC and got "classically flamed" for not dropping sensory first byone idiot. i just laughted at him. he argued heavily that sc is so much better than dc and i should get kicked. laughted again and typed "oh the irony" he flamed me a newbie and asked for how long ive gen playing 3.0 because now ONLY sc first would be it. I could not stop laughting ans typed "I own with SC first since 1.0"
<!--QuoteBegin-Ollj+Mar 7 2005, 06:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ollj @ Mar 7 2005, 06:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 1 day after release i dropped a DC and got "classically flamed" for not dropping sensory first byone idiot. i just laughted at him. he argued heavily that sc is so much better than dc and i should get kicked. laughted again and typed "oh the irony" he flamed me a newbie and asked for how long ive gen playing 3.0 because now ONLY sc first would be it. I could not stop laughting ans typed "I own with SC first since 1.0" <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> well since i have played ns games in 3.0(maybe 25 games or so) not once has ever dropped DC first.Usually DC is even the last chamber that makes me very happy.Love the stealthy play of SC.Now you can actually feel teamwork in pubs because people form ambushes with cloak.
<!--QuoteBegin-Savant+Mar 6 2005, 02:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Savant @ Mar 6 2005, 02:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> As mentioned above, when not moving (with cloaking upgrade) or in range of SC, aliens are 100% cloaked. With the cloaking upgrade an alien will become 10% visible while walking, and turrets will NOT fire at you. Only once you move faster than walking speed does your cloaking diminish, and it depending on your speed it will make you 30% visible if running at regular speed. If you are a skulk and hopping at faster than normal speed, visibility can increase to a maximum of 40%.
The only time that cloaking is disabled is when you attack or are attacked, if you are in range of an obs, or if you are in the area when it is scanned.
What I'm finding with SC is that it is similar to the way things went when the first SC changes were made way back when... People played SC all the time at first, and marines got owned by it repeatedly. However, people eventually adapted to it, and so the advantage of dropping SC first diminished.
I expect the same will happen with this release.
Regards,
Savant <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> it would be nice if people would actually read the manual and not post false info. you are never, NEVER, 100% cloaked. the cover of a SC is only 95%. read the manual. here, ill even link it for you: <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/comm_manual/basic/alienStructures.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/comm_manua...nStructures.htm</a>
Comments
In my experience, cloaking in b6 works like this: the upgrade gives you 95% cloaking while you are standing still or walking in a straight line, and 70% cloaking while you're running around. Sensory chamber cloaking gives 100% cloaking (read: they <i>will not</i> see you without a scan or extremely lucky guess) regardless of your lifeform or upgrades. 100% cloaked onos devour is obviously very annoying.
And what's with the problem with the commanders getting Obs. to combat SC? That takes more res from the Marine team than any other chamber as they have to put down multiple Obs. everywhere. Also it takes time from the Marines as they have to move slower through the map and/or wait for the commander to scan every room. That's also assuming he is a good commander
Well that's all I can think of for right now...
Hey DTE, I thought your avatar looked like a smiley driving some kinda machine sucking up popcorn till I looked a little better.
Nah its smiley party-time !
<!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo-->
SC is ok when you have an average skilled team :/
thats why most people take dc on pubs
As for Onos, celerity helps a LOT in getting away from gunfire after a devour. But then, anyone that goes onos before the second hive goes up is pretty darn lame anyway, unless its a really bad lockdown. And in the case of a lockdown, movements at least allow you to rush a locked down hive, which is more than DCs alone can give you.
SCs still aren't great for higher lifeforms, put as I said, we shouldn't be seeing Onos before second hive, and the wonders of a cloaked fade are still highly recommended (instead of being shot while coming, you can appear out of nowhere, slaughter, and then hide very quickly0
Not moving with the ability is 100%, it scales down to 70 depending on your speed(I.E. walking is around 90%, holding +use is around 95%, full run is 70%, etc.)
ITS LIKE A BLOODY CULT I TELL YOU!!!
*Edit - Spelling
You need to bear in mind timings. In a decent setup, at the same time that first Fade hatches, you should (hopefully!) have a hive just starting to go up. If someone else also has a brain & saves for the 2nd set of chambers, the thinking goes that by the time the marines have got hold of their 'Fade Huntin' Scatterguns, pa!' that those chambers should just about be being dropped.
And the benefit to skulks (which is what you are, 80% of the time anyway) is huge. Innate regen isn't <i>meant</i> to really be useful, but rather a nice bonus that might help occasionally. If it was actually practical, it might usurp DC's/Regen/Healspray, which would be just silly. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
- Shockwave
The only time that cloaking is disabled is when you attack or are attacked, if you are in range of an obs, or if you are in the area when it is scanned.
What I'm finding with SC is that it is similar to the way things went when the first SC changes were made way back when... People played SC all the time at first, and marines got owned by it repeatedly. However, people eventually adapted to it, and so the advantage of dropping SC first diminished.
I expect the same will happen with this release.
Regards,
Savant
The game is finally balanced, lets not screw this up. (remember 2.0, when people were biatching about aliens being overpowered...lets not do that again) <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
In other words, if you follow the same strat that aliens have always followed since 2.0, then DCs are better. MCs/SCs are a better choice if you're willing to alter your tactics a bit.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good stuff Zek, and so true.
<!--QuoteBegin-NeonSpyder+Mar 5 2005, 05:14 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NeonSpyder @ Mar 5 2005, 05:14 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Silence does not neccesarily suck againts Motion tracking, i mean, how many times as marine do you spontaneously turn around? very very often if you're a good marine, but most marines aren't good. motion tracking won't help you if the aliens aren't in front of you.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is what the minimap is, everyone NEEDs to learn how to use that thing constantly.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Innate regen is worthless except in the rare situation where you only died by a margin of a couple bullets in B5, and higher lifeforms are as dependent on DCs as always.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Innate regen makes it so that lerks won't need DCs. A lerk is going to stay back and spore/umbra most of the time, so he won't be taking much damage. It's really helpful as a fade, because you'll be able to take out lone marines or small groups of marines, without having to return to the hive. It also really helps hive 1 celerity fades, because they won't take enough damage to have to retreat, unless they are going against SGs or a large group.
I agree that DCs are extremely helpful once the comm starts to pass out heavy weapons regularly, however.
It's always been DUH
i just laughted at him.
he argued heavily that sc is so much better than dc and i should get kicked.
laughted again and typed "oh the irony"
he flamed me a newbie and asked for how long ive gen playing 3.0 because now ONLY sc first would be it.
I could not stop laughting ans typed "I own with SC first since 1.0"
i just laughted at him.
he argued heavily that sc is so much better than dc and i should get kicked.
laughted again and typed "oh the irony"
he flamed me a newbie and asked for how long ive gen playing 3.0 because now ONLY sc first would be it.
I could not stop laughting ans typed "I own with SC first since 1.0" <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
well since i have played ns games in 3.0(maybe 25 games or so) not once has ever dropped DC first.Usually DC is even the last chamber that makes me very happy.Love the stealthy play of SC.Now you can actually feel teamwork in pubs because people form ambushes with cloak.
The only time that cloaking is disabled is when you attack or are attacked, if you are in range of an obs, or if you are in the area when it is scanned.
What I'm finding with SC is that it is similar to the way things went when the first SC changes were made way back when... People played SC all the time at first, and marines got owned by it repeatedly. However, people eventually adapted to it, and so the advantage of dropping SC first diminished.
I expect the same will happen with this release.
Regards,
Savant <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
it would be nice if people would actually read the manual and not post false info. you are never, NEVER, 100% cloaked. the cover of a SC is only 95%. read the manual. here, ill even link it for you: <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/comm_manual/basic/alienStructures.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/comm_manua...nStructures.htm</a>