Hand Grenades
Grendel
All that is fear... Join Date: 2002-07-19 Member: 970Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, NS2 Playtester
All that is fear... Join Date: 2002-07-19 Member: 970Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, NS2 Playtester
<div class="IPBDescription">The Unknown Sensory Counter</div> Hand Grenades are worth having if:
a) You're likely to have marines that will respawn a few times.
b) You research them early.
c) You remember to use them.
d) You have someone to cover you when you throw them.
The last of which, oddly enough, fits in nicely with the idea of the marines sticking together to cover each other from stealthy Kharaa.
TheAdj and a few others may have heard of the term "reconaissance by fire", which is a military euphemism for shooting at/shelling/blowing up areas to see if it shakes any enemy loose. This is one of the best uses of handgrenades. If you suspect that there may be a cloaked skulk in a room or a silenced skulk hiding in a vent, toss a handgrenade in. It will drive them back for a moment, allowing you to pass safely/get through the door or it will make them charge into your guys, fully uncloaked by the blast damage.
As a subsection of this, you can add "area denial" to the list of hand grenade applications. In a hive assault under difficult cirumstances, you can have an HMG and a shotgun covering the gate/siege with a constant stream of LMG marines going over the top, hurling grenades along the kharaa's line of attack. Whilst not as good as having a dedicated GLer, it's better than allowing Celerity skulks to maximise their dodging abilities. A hand grenade has done its job if it makes killing skulks any easier. A random grenade has also been known to end a fade's career early on occasion too.
Secondly, it allows you to winkle skulks and gorges out of dead ends, minibases or from behind nodes at no risk to the marines. Whilst the marine "Ginsu Wall of Death" is usually enough to kill a skulk, frequently it will be at the cost of a medpack or two.
As a tertiary use, they can be used for bombing runs on chambers. A trio of marines running into the hive can hurl a volley of grenades at the chambers and then polish off the damaged strutures with LMG/Pistol. If a marine is <b>really</b> slick, he can time things so that he shoots first, then kills himself with his own grenade, denying the Kharaa his RFK. (This presumes an utterly suicidal hive rush with the exclusive objective of killing upgrade chambers).
Finally, it's an excellent phase clearing device. A couple of marines dying in quick succession but dropping their grenades on the gate is sufficient to kill a wounded fade and certainly any skulks in the vicinity of the gate.
They generate RFK which simply would not have been gained without their usage. So go on, give them a go.
a) You're likely to have marines that will respawn a few times.
b) You research them early.
c) You remember to use them.
d) You have someone to cover you when you throw them.
The last of which, oddly enough, fits in nicely with the idea of the marines sticking together to cover each other from stealthy Kharaa.
TheAdj and a few others may have heard of the term "reconaissance by fire", which is a military euphemism for shooting at/shelling/blowing up areas to see if it shakes any enemy loose. This is one of the best uses of handgrenades. If you suspect that there may be a cloaked skulk in a room or a silenced skulk hiding in a vent, toss a handgrenade in. It will drive them back for a moment, allowing you to pass safely/get through the door or it will make them charge into your guys, fully uncloaked by the blast damage.
As a subsection of this, you can add "area denial" to the list of hand grenade applications. In a hive assault under difficult cirumstances, you can have an HMG and a shotgun covering the gate/siege with a constant stream of LMG marines going over the top, hurling grenades along the kharaa's line of attack. Whilst not as good as having a dedicated GLer, it's better than allowing Celerity skulks to maximise their dodging abilities. A hand grenade has done its job if it makes killing skulks any easier. A random grenade has also been known to end a fade's career early on occasion too.
Secondly, it allows you to winkle skulks and gorges out of dead ends, minibases or from behind nodes at no risk to the marines. Whilst the marine "Ginsu Wall of Death" is usually enough to kill a skulk, frequently it will be at the cost of a medpack or two.
As a tertiary use, they can be used for bombing runs on chambers. A trio of marines running into the hive can hurl a volley of grenades at the chambers and then polish off the damaged strutures with LMG/Pistol. If a marine is <b>really</b> slick, he can time things so that he shoots first, then kills himself with his own grenade, denying the Kharaa his RFK. (This presumes an utterly suicidal hive rush with the exclusive objective of killing upgrade chambers).
Finally, it's an excellent phase clearing device. A couple of marines dying in quick succession but dropping their grenades on the gate is sufficient to kill a wounded fade and certainly any skulks in the vicinity of the gate.
They generate RFK which simply would not have been gained without their usage. So go on, give them a go.
Comments
I would love to see hand nades more. But it is sad that if you upgrade them you have to first defend it 2minutes and then say every 1minute to people use them.
When I use nades I go for sdjason rush.
Maybe I just need more competent marines, but I've run this a few times now, and while it sometimes saves a phasegate, or lets you nuke a bilebombing gorgie, it doesn't seem to be sufficiently efficient for the cost. *shrugs*
they try to save it up for something big or a target worth hitting, but
they either can't decide to hit the target or not, or end up not using
it at all.
But right now they're largely uninteresting. Definitely not worth 20 earlygameres.
-they didnt take so damn long to prime
-refillable at the armory(like a medpack)
Same idea here
Receiving one hand grenade after each spawn will help the marines and add more fun to their game, furthermore hand grenades will be used finally.
Like you say, they aren't worth having unless you expect the players to die often. From my experiance the kind of players you expect to die often are also the kind of players who don't know how to use hand grenades to the effect that they can have. There are tonnes of possible changes that could be made to them to change that, but really, as it stands they are almost never worth the 20 early game res they cost. Expecially since when the aliens have sensory, the one time the nades REALLY come in handy, you have to get them at the expense of quickly upgrading your armory, which is a real hit to take when you know an upgraded armory is going to mean a strong endgame for you when the aliens will be forced to chose between celer/adren or cara/regen for thier high evolutions.
The HG in CS is feasible because:
a) It reveals hidden enemies
and
b) It goes around corners
If you are suggesting any other use for it, then you are talking against newbies only.
Yeah, if you listen real closely, you might hear a player grunt when hit by the HE nade, but it does a fair amount of damage, primes quickly, and goes far, against slow moving targets.
<!--QuoteBegin-Rapier7+Mar 24 2005, 04:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rapier7 @ Mar 24 2005, 04:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <u><i><b>primes quickly </b></i></u><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As to thier use as anti sensory..... it has some potential.... however it should never be banked upon or relied upon... unless rapiers said range increase damage decrease is thought about.....
However i agree... throw ur hand grenade at my frickin chair if u want to... just dont die with one in ur hand or ill throw a hissy fit.......
~Jason
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=5&t=90788' target='_blank'>Grenades Thrown Through Phasegates, to clear aliens on other side</a>
please read and give thoughts. thanks!
What about
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=90821' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....showtopic=90821</a>
Would give hand grenades a fairly decent sensory counter....
~Jason
- Just hotkey your obs to 1 and scan consistently to spot aliens and any nearby chambers.
- Research A1 to prevent one hit kills from focus. I think a lot of comms are teching armor 3 first because of this new cloaking buff.
- Getting mt is optional and a good idea, but kind of useless versus walking cloakers.
- Make sure you put mines around base and any pg setups you have. Electrify nodes if you have the spare res to.
- Build an obs at key spots on the map (places where you know your marines can camp to kill incoming skulks).
Yeah, if you listen real closely, you might hear a player grunt when hit by the HE nade, but it does a fair amount of damage, primes quickly, and goes far, against slow moving targets. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The targets might be slow, but they have weapons which are hitscan and instagib, so it's not without risk.