Should Gamers Ever Make A Ww2 Game

CplDavisCplDavis I hunt the arctic Snonos Join Date: 2003-01-09 Member: 12097Members
<div class="IPBDescription">from the Common German soldiers view?</div> So the makers of Call of Duty 2 seem to be doing one hell of a job if anyone else saw the new D Day vid for their next game that was hosted by PC Gamer.

I loved the first game and Ill most likely get this one too.

One thing I wanted everyones opinion on...

As everyone knows in the first CoD game there were 3 different campaigns, US, UK, and USSR, where you could play as a common soldier in each of these allied armies.

For a long time there was and (still is) a great debate on whether or not to include a playable German Wehrmacht campaign where the players could play as duh, a common german soldier, most likely in the german invasion into Russia or other times even. (Imagine going though D-Day or the pre allied airborne invasion but on the opposite side of the MG-42s, or going on that last ditch offensive in Belgium from the German side.)

Story plot ideas were numerous trying to find a common ground story that depicts the human side of the "enemy" or "common german soldier" in WW2 just like the other 3 previously depicted armies. The lowly soldier who does the fighting not make the orders.

Depictions came to mind such as the WW1 film All Quiet on the Western front or the WW2 film Das Boot (which made it past German censors due to its artful depictions of history)

Anyways the basis for the german campain never made it at least not yet due to the obvious political hurdles they would have to overcome and so it wont be in the new Call of Duty 2.

Im kinda dissapointed.

What do you guys think.
I mean they want to make a game from the common soldiers point of view who shared jsut the same hardships as any other veteran in that war,They are not trying to share the views of Hitler himself.
And to be respectfully blunt if they are not making games based off of people associated with tragic events... its not like games have never depicted "common enemies" before hand in other games. ie, Romans, jihadists, crusaders, Confederate rebels, mongol invaders etc)

oh well

btw you can read about the PC Gamer editiors thoughts on the subject here.
<a href='http://www.pcgamer.com/endboss/endboss_2005-03-03.html' target='_blank'>No German story to tell</a>

Comments

  • SnidelySnidely Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13098Members
    Well, in Soldiers: Heroes of World War II, you can play as the UK, USA, USSR or German forces. They each have a small single player section.
  • pardzhpardzh Join Date: 2002-10-25 Member: 1601Members
    Why not? I think it'd be interesting. It'd add some variation to WW2 games for once, too.
  • big_jimbig_jim Join Date: 2003-12-14 Member: 24350Members
    I think part of the problem is that at the end, you lose.

    Not a very good climax to a game is it?
  • DrSuredeathDrSuredeath Join Date: 2002-11-11 Member: 8217Members
    edited March 2005
    I'm all for it but Lieberman will probably think otherwise. Come on, there are SOME very charismatic WWII german heroes out there.

    Desert Fox, John Rabe.

    I'd really like to be Erwin Rommel's subordinate,.. or the Red Baron Wingman.
  • cshank4cshank4 Join Date: 2003-02-11 Member: 13425Members
    Yes, well, the russians lost in the end too. *Badump ching* Anyhow, I think it would be good IF they find some way to pull it off without any bias which is so common in games any more. And, you know, if they DO make it from the point of a German soldier, some Kentucky geezer will sue them for being a terrorist.
  • CplDavisCplDavis I hunt the arctic Snonos Join Date: 2003-01-09 Member: 12097Members
    edited March 2005
    <!--QuoteBegin-big jim+Mar 9 2005, 07:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (big jim @ Mar 9 2005, 07:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think part of the problem is that at the end, you lose.

    Not a very good climax to a game is it? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Well then again. If you are looking at a climax and ending.

    Look at all those games and movies out there with mixed endings.

    Mafia, Unreal 2, Opfor, hell even hl2 and Halo2 and some other newer games that I wont mention incase of spoilers. lol and some more I cant remember but Know they are out there. Or even Vietcong, you win the game but you are just a very small part of a much larger conflict.

    Terminator 2, Leon, Das Boot etc

    besides, you could also do something like Veitcong with the small part theme.

    Or... portray the early german campains when they where successful. WW2 games have a habit of starting off around 1944. None of them really touch base on 1939-1943.
  • HazeHaze O RLY? Join Date: 2003-07-07 Member: 18018Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-Snidely+Mar 9 2005, 07:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Snidely @ Mar 9 2005, 07:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well, in Soldiers: Heroes of World War II, you can play as the UK, USA, USSR or German forces. They each have a small single player section. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Best game evar.
  • SnidelySnidely Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13098Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Haze+Mar 9 2005, 08:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Haze @ Mar 9 2005, 08:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Snidely+Mar 9 2005, 07:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Snidely @ Mar 9 2005, 07:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well, in Soldiers: Heroes of World War II, you can play as the UK, USA, USSR or German forces. They each have a small single player section. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Best game evar. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Hardest game ever (well, hardest game in a long time, anyway). In the second Russian mission, for example, you have to kill something like 50+ soldiers and at least one tank with just two guys. Madness!
  • CabooseCaboose title = name(self, handle) Join Date: 2003-02-15 Member: 13597Members, Constellation
    Yea, Germans are people too, they just have a thing for loosing World Wars, and being stereotyped as evil.

    Personally, I want this. I've heard a lot about the allies throughout the years, but rarley get to hear about the other side or things.

    Actually, one of my favorite books, All Quiet on the Western Front is through a common german soldiers view during WW1, mainl;y because I had never heard that side of the story.
  • Cold_NiTeCold_NiTe Join Date: 2003-09-15 Member: 20875Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Caboose+Mar 9 2005, 08:40 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Caboose @ Mar 9 2005, 08:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yea, Germans are people too, they just have a thing for loosing World Wars, and being stereotyped as evil. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I think that stereotype was well earned in the second world war. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    But that's old hash anyway.

    Wouldn't mind a game in their perspective, trouble is, would it get the ok? All things considered, they might have trouble getting it accepted.
  • NecrosisNecrosis The Loquacious Sage Join Date: 2003-08-03 Member: 18828Members, Constellation
    It would certainly be interesting to see, the human side of it.

    I could wax lyrical about soldiers and officers refusing to obey inhumane orders, etc, but I don't really need to. It'd definitely be genre changing if they ran a Wehrmacht sp element.

    In fact you could see it working a la Starcraft - German element, British element, US element. With a single connecting thread running through the story (germans win battle, british claw back land, americans come in at end of war).


    In much the same way, you don't really see an awful lot of WW2 games covering the Asian perspective.
  • UltimaGeckoUltimaGecko hates endnotes Join Date: 2003-05-14 Member: 16320Members
    I'd buy it.



    If you wanted to avoid an unclimactic ending (such as the player's German being captured/shot to end their storyline), they could make the Germans pushing to the Atlantic after Poland; the Americans in Italy and the British in Normandy (or other parts for British/Canadian/American/Russian/French resistance/whatever).

    That's one of my favorite parts of Blitzkrieg (I meant to buy it after I tried the demo, but haven't seen it since), playing as the Germans and Russians.
  • Cold_NiTeCold_NiTe Join Date: 2003-09-15 Member: 20875Members
    One thing's for sure, it'd probably be banned in Germany, like every other WW2 game it seems.
  • NolSinklerNolSinkler On the Clorf Join Date: 2004-02-15 Member: 26560Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-Cold NiTe+Mar 9 2005, 09:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cold NiTe @ Mar 9 2005, 09:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> One thing's for sure, it'd probably be banned in Germany, like every other WW2 game it seems. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Obviously.
  • Cold_NiTeCold_NiTe Join Date: 2003-09-15 Member: 20875Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-NolSinkler+Mar 9 2005, 10:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NolSinkler @ Mar 9 2005, 10:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Cold NiTe+Mar 9 2005, 09:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cold NiTe @ Mar 9 2005, 09:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> One thing's for sure, it'd probably be banned in Germany, like every other WW2 game it seems. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Obviously. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Sucks for them. Missing out on games like Medal Of Honor: Allied Assault.
  • SoulSkorpionSoulSkorpion Join Date: 2002-04-12 Member: 423Members
    No, they shouldn't. For the simple reason that I'm <i>sick to death</i> of World War Two games. I don't care if a game comes out where you play the camp <i>cook</i>. Enough already.

    While we're at it, "gamers" don't often make games. Unless you're talking about mods...
  • Cold_NiTeCold_NiTe Join Date: 2003-09-15 Member: 20875Members
    edited March 2005
    <!--QuoteBegin-SoulSkorpion+Mar 9 2005, 11:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SoulSkorpion @ Mar 9 2005, 11:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> No, they shouldn't. For the simple reason that I'm <i>sick to death</i> of World War Two games. I don't care if a game comes out where you play the camp <i>cook</i>. Enough already.

    While we're at it, "gamers" don't often make games. Unless you're talking about mods... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I hadn't thought of that. Now that I do, I kinda feel the same way. We really need to find some other periods in history to base our games on, this era is overused.

    BTW, the above is another reason why <a href='http://xbox.gamespy.com/xbox/jade-empire/590706p1.html' target='_blank'>Jade Empire</a> thrills me. It might just work. And if it works, it's gonna work well.
  • MedHeadMedHead Join Date: 2002-12-19 Member: 11115Members, Constellation
    I wouldn't play it. I feel uncomfortable just playing Axis in Call of Duty multiplayer and/or Day of Defeat. Playing a campaign where the characters ended up looking heroic wouldn't sit well with me.

    No, this does not mean I hate Germans. I don't support what they did in World War II, and wouldn't want to play a game where such actions were supported.
  • SoulSkorpionSoulSkorpion Join Date: 2002-04-12 Member: 423Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-MedHead+Mar 10 2005, 02:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MedHead @ Mar 10 2005, 02:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> No, this does not mean I hate Germans. I don't support what they did in World War II, and wouldn't want to play a game where such actions were supported. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    "Such actions"? Yeah, there is a case to be made against the whole invading Poland etc. part, and the being the aggressors in the war. However, the average German soldier was not much more than a soldier - the vast majority weren't Nazi part members and only certain very specific sections (such as the Waffen SS) were responsible for atrocities.
  • CForresterCForrester P0rk(h0p Join Date: 2002-10-05 Member: 1439Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-Cold NiTe+Mar 9 2005, 09:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cold NiTe @ Mar 9 2005, 09:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Caboose+Mar 9 2005, 08:40 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Caboose @ Mar 9 2005, 08:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yea, Germans are people too, they just have a thing for loosing World Wars, and being stereotyped as evil. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I think that stereotype was well earned in the second world war. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Ahem. Hitler and the Nazis were evil. Not the German army. The German soldiers were just doing what they had to do to survive, just like the Allied soldiers. They weren't all Nazis.
  • SandstormSandstorm Join Date: 2003-09-25 Member: 21205Members
    I don't think Flight sims have had nearly such issues with depicting the German Luftwaffe during World War 2. As long as the game focuses on military matters and avoids going into social or political issues, it shouldn't have too many critics. I do suspect such a game would have superior officers yelling at you in German all the time. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • MedHeadMedHead Join Date: 2002-12-19 Member: 11115Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-SoulSkorpion+Mar 10 2005, 01:53 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SoulSkorpion @ Mar 10 2005, 01:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> "Such actions"? Yeah, there is a case to be made against the whole invading Poland etc. part, and the being the aggressors in the war. However, the average German soldier was not much more than a soldier - the vast majority weren't Nazi part members and only certain very specific sections (such as the Waffen SS) were responsible for atrocities. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I know not every soldier was a Nazi. Still, I have difficulty holding many of the German soldiers blameless, Nazi or not. I would also feel unsettled playing a game where I played as a German, knowing what many Germans did during World War II. World War II holds a special place in my heart: I'm very patriotic about that time period, as my Grandfather fought and was wounded during his years of service.

    Now, my grandfather has stated several times that he holds no malice towards Germans, nor did he during the war. He faced average soldiers. When cease fires were active, he often sat around and talked with the German soldiers. I understand the normal grunt very often was fighting because he was forced to, and not because he had some ax to grind with humanity. I don't remain upset and unforgiving to the soldiers of that war (especially since I wasn't alive when it happened). However, they were the enemy. I don't like playing the enemy to my country. It feels wrong, especially so because of what Germany as a country did during World War II. A lot of the things done in the war seem in opposition to the claim that most soldiers were kind-hearted and against what was done in the war. I wonder sometimes how grand a scale there was of German soldiers who thought what their country was doing was morally unsound.

    There is a point to all this rambling. I don't feel comfortable playing the enemy. Germans did some very bad things during World War II, things that affected a lot of people. Sure, not every German did those things. But the country as a whole did. Reliving those wrong actions in any fashion other than showing the wrongness of such actions makes me feel uncomfortable in this case.
  • ZigZig ...I am Captain Planet&#33; Join Date: 2002-10-23 Member: 1576Members
    i think they should make one.. for reasons stated above..

    the best thing that could happen would be a big mod community putting together teams for each of these games: mohaa, CoD, CoD2, etc... to create mods from the German viewpoint.

    but because it's WWII, the needs for comprehensive authenticity and such... those are going to be hard to meet.
  • SandstormSandstorm Join Date: 2003-09-25 Member: 21205Members
    <a href='http://www.feldgrau.com/' target='_blank'>http://www.feldgrau.com/</a>
  • SuitePeeSuitePee Join Date: 2004-11-18 Member: 32857Members
    Hmmmm:

    Call Of Duty + German Single-Player= controversy.
    Controversy + videogame= shock appeal on media.
    Shock appeal on media + game= game being sold. $$$$

    It'd be nice to see WW2 from a German perspective. Perhaps D-Day as the Germans. (can you hold back the tide,or will you be over-run?) Or anything really. Time for people to get over the past,I mean you can play Axis on Multi-Player and no-one complains about that really.
    Regardless,I will be buying COD2 cos I liked both modes.
  • kittycatkittycat Join Date: 2003-07-28 Member: 18503Members
    edited March 2005
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->One thing's for sure, it'd probably be banned in Germany, like every other WW2 game it seems.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    what? Can I get a list of ww2 games banned in Germany?
  • Cold_NiTeCold_NiTe Join Date: 2003-09-15 Member: 20875Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-CForrester+Mar 10 2005, 02:05 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CForrester @ Mar 10 2005, 02:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Cold NiTe+Mar 9 2005, 09:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cold NiTe @ Mar 9 2005, 09:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Caboose+Mar 9 2005, 08:40 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Caboose @ Mar 9 2005, 08:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yea, Germans are people too, they just have a thing for loosing World Wars, and being stereotyped as evil. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I think that stereotype was well earned in the second world war. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Ahem. Hitler and the Nazis were evil. Not the German army. The German soldiers were just doing what they had to do to survive, just like the Allied soldiers. They weren't all Nazis. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I don't believe I ever said otherwise...
Sign In or Register to comment.