Hmgs
Jmmsbnd007
Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9793Banned, Constellation
Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9793Banned, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">like wow</div> Anyone else agree with me (yes) when I say that HMGs = uber rape squads of death? They should really tone these babies down at least a little bit. A level 3 HMG plus a catpack will kill a fade before he can even blink close enough to swipe. A level 2 (no catpack) hmg will kill a fade so fast he won't even have a chance to blink away. Lerks? Pfft, a quick spray and your flying unit turns into a rock. I think it's time the dev team nerfs HMGs, at least slightly, maybe even reducing the damage done by 2-3 points could help.
Comments
......rofl
so we can make you and mustang a flying terror that can't die?
EDIT- AND YES I KNOW YOUR NOT SERIOUS
EDIT- AND YES I KNOW YOUR NOT SERIOUS <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, I am serious. Level 3 HMGs are a flipping joke, they need to be nerfed at least a <b>little bit</b>. You know that if you simply stand on an elevated surface/ramp and employ a little bit of marine movement (sometimes you don't even need this), a single marine can hold off or even kill an onos? Come on, tell me that's balanced and fair.
Besides, it is more than possible for good fades to face 2-3 HMGers and still get out of the fight alive. Throw in a lerk, and they aren't that menacing.
Do you see onos popping up at crucial points in clan play, anyways? It's really just to force the game to end if the marines are bottled up pretty well.
As it is, in clan play, it's not economically feasible to have an AA up before the four minute mark, and it's usually around 3:00-3:30 when fades show up. Assuming the two teams are pretty evenly matched, the marines won't be able to get up a strong economy and still get fast A1 if they advance the armory first off or damn near it.
As it is, in clan play, it's not economically feasible to have an AA up before the four minute mark, and it's usually around 3:00-3:30 when fades show up. Assuming the two teams are pretty evenly matched, the marines won't be able to get up a strong economy and still get fast A1 if they advance the armory first off or damn near it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just for fun, I'm going to ask this question.
Rapier: When have you played in a clan match?
Seriously, I'm not trying to make fun of you. Just want to know.
As to keeping on topic, I do think that Level 3 HMGs are a tad overpowered. But seeing as the HMGs themselves take 40 res and 3 minutes just to get (not even hand out any), and weapons 3 is 90 res, I think they fit in just fine.
Quoted for truth.
How about a larger spread so that pubbers can hit Fades easier and clanners would have slightly lower effective DPS because of innaccuracy?
- Weaken them and...
...you elminate the only counter to onos.
...you make them less effective against structures than the LMG.
...marines lose their sheer firepower advantage against aliens that they have at the start of the game.
- Change their cone of fire and...
...you make them much weaker at longer ranges.
...you make them (even) better at closer ranges.
The HMG of 1.04 had a large cone of fire, and it made it so skulks could never kill HMG'ers because the increased cone just made them plaster anything around their feet. So the cone was of fire was shortened to balance it out.
Right now, the counters against HMGs:
- Attrition. Huge reload time, if you have two hives just keep sending in skulks or whatnot to waste ammo. Fades can do this too. Fades pop under the HMG but as a fade you should just keep your distance and try to have them waste their ammo.
- Buildings. HMGs who waste their ammo on structures will die.
- If a HMG dies then the marines lose a huge investment.
HMGs can't be changed; if you think the fade dies too fast to the HMG then perhaps the fades need more HP, or the onos reduced hitbox size, etc.
I'd look for other solutions but changing the HMG just isn't a smart idea. It effects the game on so many levels.
Oh.
Forlorn- You can't seriously say that buildings and reload time (plus a measely 15 res) balance out HMGs.
Homi- A single HMG can hold off an onos, and can solo a fade with little sweat.
I'm not advocating a complete removal or anything drastic like that, but I really think it needs to be toned down by at least 2 points of damage or so.
<span style='color:orange'>Grendel was making a point to stay on topic, otherwise this post will be locked without a second though.</span>
I wouldn't know what lorn thinks. I am not lorn. My name is not lorn. My handle is NGE. NGE is not Forlorn. Forlorn is not NGE.
15 res is not measly. That's half a level 2 upgrade, an RT, 15 packs of ammo, 7.5 meds, or 5 cats that res could've gone towards. 15 res is quite a bit of time unless you're dominating the map. Regardless, 15 res on most maps still takes a good 15 seconds with map domination. That's a hefty chunk of down-time, eh?
And for 30 res, you can drop 2 HMG's or 3 shotguns. The SG's won't be as effective anti-lifeform, sure, but structure's are plastered and unless they've got a lerk constantly on them they're quite deadly. Sieges are a joke, so unless you've got a rather expensive GL/HMG combo going, you're going to have to settle for the shotgun for its anti structure/lifeform capibilty.
The reload time puts you out've combat for 7.5 seconds. A skulk spawns in 7 seven seconds- for the time you're reloading, a player is gained back on the other team. Sure, a HMG ought to kill way more than one non-onos player per clip, but forcing reloads on HMG's especially with the reload animations really can hinder their effectiveness.
By the time marines have HMGs aliens should have or almost have their 2nd hive.
Umbra blocks 1/2 of the bullets? Therefore making the gun 1/2 as effective. Thats a pretty big nerf.
Call for backup if you see a group of HMGs.
<span style='font-size:30pt;line-height:100%'>BIG ANNOYING TEXT 1 - 0 SPAM SPAM</span>
Forlorn- You can't seriously say that buildings and reload time (plus a measely 15 res) balance out HMGs.
Homi- A single HMG can hold off an onos, and can solo a fade with little sweat.
I'm not advocating a complete removal or anything drastic like that, but I really think it needs to be toned down by at least 2 points of damage or so. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Come on, be realistic.
A single hmg is NEVER going to hold off a 2 hive onos. Lets assume its a 2 hive onos as it should be. A single hmg is not going to hold off a fade over a period of time.
I wish it was that easy to command. Upgrade armory. Wait 4 minutes, drop 5 HMGs. The marines team should be able to take on 5 fades right? Not a chance in hell. The alien team is going to exploit the weakness of the HMGs. Ya it would be awsome to have a team of 5 HMGs, but it is NOTHING compared to 5 fades. The marines still have to knife/siege down any structure which requires easily 5 times as long as using shotguns.
I cant believe you are putting off the huge reload time like its nothing. The reload time is a HUGE balancing factor. In a continues pressure situations the reload time comes into play EVERY SINGLE TIME. The commander mite as well drop fresh HMGs to recover from a hard PG situation.
The other main balancing issue is the HMGs inability to kill structures.
The shotgun is easily twice as effect against structures, cost significantly less, and does not require an advanced armory.
Yes the HMG owns lifeforms, as it should. No it should not be changed.
By the time marines have HMGs aliens should have or almost have their 2nd hive.
Umbra blocks 1/2 of the bullets? Therefore making the gun 1/2 as effective. Thats a pretty big nerf.
Call for backup if you see a group of HMGs. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
but by the time the aliens have 2 hives, they have won...
on topic more... I sorta agree that HMGs damage is a little too much but I think that if HMG damage is toned down marines need to be improved a little bit, especially in the early game.
I mean honestly being a fade around even a single JP HMG with good aim is just ridiculously dangerous. I dunno. Maybe reduce HMG damage but reduce shotgun cost when marines have an advanced armory or something, because as it is, a single HMG more dangerous than 3 shotguns in many rooms (cargo, rr on tanith for example). and it's a million times harder to pick lone marines out of a pack if they have a few HMGs, cuz they are just so much more effective at range than shotguns
Multiple lvl 3 HMGs can send an onos running away in retreat or back to the respawn easily enough. But then again multiple lvl 3 HMGs took more time and resources to get set up.
onos destroy HA,
focus destroys JPs,
and HMGs destroy lifeforms.
Stating that the HMG is overpowered against lifeforms shows little reasoning for change.
When the marine team gains the ability to drop HMGs it is no more significant than armor 1, phase, MT, HA, JP, or any other major tech for that matter.
I'm not really asking for a full-on nerf. I just wish something could be done to either HMGs or jetpacks, because a JP with a level 3 HMG can easily solo any lifeform.