Democracy, Freedom, And Our Downfall
Rob
Unknown Enemy Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 25Members, NS1 Playtester
Unknown Enemy Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 25Members, NS1 Playtester
in Discussions
<div class="IPBDescription">Can time erode fury?</div> To be honest, we've had "our country has done something unique" beaten into our American heads all through schooling and into life beyond. But let's take a bit closer look. It's pretty common knowledge that our closest country likeness was Athens in ancient Greece. Athens flourished under democracy, just as we have. After a bit over 200 years of this bliss, however, Athens fell after many battles with many invaders. It's been over 200 years since our birth as a nation, ladies and gents.
Though, yes, Athens was invaded many times by many overpowering enemies, history has always shown us that fighting spirit is much more important than fighting numbers. The Spartans showed us this at Thermopylae, the British taught this to the Spanish Armada, and the Nazi Air Force, the South to the North in our Civil War, and, recently, Israel in her war of independence. Is it possible that Athens had no more fighting spirit?
If that's the case, what was the cause? Suppose that 200 years of freedom dulls the core of what it actually means to <b>be</b> free. Suppose there is a "shelf life" to freedom, and after a time, complacency and social degradation destroy the memories of life without such liberties.
If that's true, then we may be in trouble. Consider this, and consider it at face value. This topic is not to discuss political points of view, or conspiracy theories. Regardless of what you believe occurred on September 11, 2001, a few thousand people lost their lives that day. In fact, the last time such a mass murder of Americans took place, we were at war 24 hours later, and that attack was on a conventional, military target. Granted, there was no country to declare war on, but my point is that the attack on Pearl Harbor incited a surge of patriotism.
And not the "run to wally world and buy flags!!!" we saw after 9/11, but "screw this, I'm fighting!" I understand that all branches of the military were sorely disappointed at the recruitment figures after 9/11: they expected more.
Are we like the proverbial frog in a pot of cool water, slowly heating on a stove? Are we to boil alive in our own decadence?
Though, yes, Athens was invaded many times by many overpowering enemies, history has always shown us that fighting spirit is much more important than fighting numbers. The Spartans showed us this at Thermopylae, the British taught this to the Spanish Armada, and the Nazi Air Force, the South to the North in our Civil War, and, recently, Israel in her war of independence. Is it possible that Athens had no more fighting spirit?
If that's the case, what was the cause? Suppose that 200 years of freedom dulls the core of what it actually means to <b>be</b> free. Suppose there is a "shelf life" to freedom, and after a time, complacency and social degradation destroy the memories of life without such liberties.
If that's true, then we may be in trouble. Consider this, and consider it at face value. This topic is not to discuss political points of view, or conspiracy theories. Regardless of what you believe occurred on September 11, 2001, a few thousand people lost their lives that day. In fact, the last time such a mass murder of Americans took place, we were at war 24 hours later, and that attack was on a conventional, military target. Granted, there was no country to declare war on, but my point is that the attack on Pearl Harbor incited a surge of patriotism.
And not the "run to wally world and buy flags!!!" we saw after 9/11, but "screw this, I'm fighting!" I understand that all branches of the military were sorely disappointed at the recruitment figures after 9/11: they expected more.
Are we like the proverbial frog in a pot of cool water, slowly heating on a stove? Are we to boil alive in our own decadence?
Comments
I do admit, everytime I go to my school, I lose a bit of confidence in America.
But then I think about where we currently are now, the technology we have, the rights that a few core people still understand, and then I think we'll still survive.
Apathy is bound to sink in, but it can always be shaken. Plus, when you don't necessarily know who you are fighting, it gets hard to rally patriotism. As a superpower, you can necessarily expect everybody to enlist to fight in some odd corner of the world. If our country's invaded, then you'll see enlistment shoot through the roof, but that's impossible now.
And it is impossible. That's why I don't believe the States will be resigned to economic insignificance nor take a back seat to international politics such as Britain, France, and Germany did after WWII.
I'm not sure I understand. The South lost the war. During WWII, Germany had a lot more fighting spirit than Russia did, but Russia still won. What does fighting spirit have to do with victory?
<!--QuoteBegin-Rob+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rob)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And not the "run to wally world and buy flags!!!" we saw after 9/11, but "screw this, I'm fighting!" I understand that all branches of the military were sorely disappointed at the recruitment figures after 9/11: they expected more.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What exactly are we supposed to fight? Low recruitment figures don't have much to do with the fall of an empire, when we're not fighting a war.
Hubris doesn't cause the downfall of an empire. Politics, Economics, Militarism, Diplomacy, Industry, etc. cause the downfall of an empire.
<!--QuoteBegin-Rapier7+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rapier7)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Apathy is bound to sink in, but it can always be shaken. Plus, when you don't necessarily know who you are fighting, it gets hard to rally patriotism. As a superpower, you can necessarily expect everybody to enlist to fight in some odd corner of the world. If our country's invaded, then you'll see enlistment shoot through the roof, but that's impossible now.
And it is impossible. That's why I don't believe the States will be resigned to economic insignificance nor take a back seat to international politics such as Britain, France, and Germany did after WWII.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So, it's impossible for our country to be invaded now, therefore we won't be "resigned to economic insignificance nor take a back seat to international politics?"
I'm not sure that I understand the logic behind the arguments you two are taking.
Same with Germany, except they were strong in WWII because their homeland was much more resource-plentiful and they were able to retake the Rhur and the coal producing regions around the Franco-German border. After they had their industry destroyed and their population at the mercy of the AEF, they were relegated into a position of economic submission until we rebuilt it. The same goes for France.
And ever since those two world wars, none of the European nations have taken an interest in international politics ever since. The most they ever do is give out loans and collaborate on research projects within the EU, that's about it.
When it comes down to the point where you can't invade another country anymore, the strength of a nation will ultimately boil down to how much valuable territory you have. The contiguous United States is massive, resource rich, and global-centric, as it has access to both Asian, Latin American, and European markets, plus a massive maritime infrastructure (our rivers and natural harbors), and plenty of arable land.
That's what I mean by how the US can't really fall like Athens or Rome, it's simply impossible in this day and age.
I'm not sure I understand. The South lost the war. During WWII, Germany had a lot more fighting spirit than Russia did, but Russia still won. What does fighting spirit have to do with victory?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The south lost the war, after over three years. Three years they struggled with no cannon factories, no weapon factories, and a blockade blocking their access to outside resources. They had no fleet of their own. Many officers wore homemade uniforms. Many enlisted had no boots. Yet they fought on.
The germans had more fighting spirit in the beginning, perhaps. But it also takes a certain kind of strength to continue to charge in by the hundreds, knowing you'll probably get cut down. I was refering to the battle of Britian earlier. When the last front in Europe was on that coastline, and Hiltler trained his entire military might on the the British Isles. But the RAF didn't back down.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Rob+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rob)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And not the "run to wally world and buy flags!!!" we saw after 9/11, but "screw this, I'm fighting!" I understand that all branches of the military were sorely disappointed at the recruitment figures after 9/11: they expected more.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What exactly are we supposed to fight? Low recruitment figures don't have much to do with the fall of an empire, when we're not fighting a war.
And TBH, near the end of the war, there were still nearly 6 million arms carrying men in the German army, and it's my opinion that they simply got tired of fighting.
Hubris doesn't cause the downfall of an empire. Politics, Economics, Militarism, Diplomacy, Industry, etc. cause the downfall of an empire.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1: As we so forcefully reassure people, we are NOT an empire.
2: Hubris: Overbearing pride or presumption; arrogance
Does this not affect each of those points you listed? Though I wasn't even talking about overcofidence, overcofidence is one of the biggest pitifals of all time. Napoleon at Waterloo, Lee at Gettysburg. Oh, yes, overconfidence kills, and kills hard.
Overconfidend politics will turn us agianst ourselves (liberals vrs conservatives). Overconfident economics will crash our markets (.com bust), overconfident militarism will spread our fighters thin. How many countries do we currently have troops in right now? If we had to goto major war with someone (say North Korea, for argument's sake), could our volunteer force take the blow?
Overconfident Diplomacy will turn our allies against us. On and on.
But you didn't exactly address my first concern.
In 200+ years do we really know and understand what freedom is any longer? Can we imagine life without it? When someone says to you, "what if you couldn't just goto the mall, or meet with friends at any hour for any non-malacious reason," do you say "that would suck" in the same spirit you do when you hear about things like the Tsunami disaster over Christmas? "Oh, that's so far away. And we don't get Tsunami's here. Here Uniceff, here's 50 bucks, now I can sleep at night."
Is the <i>loss</i> of freedom so far removed from us that we take it for granted? There is were the danger lies.
I do admit, everytime I go to my school, I lose a bit of confidence in America.
But then I think about where we currently are now, the technology we have, the rights that a few core people still understand, and then I think we'll still survive.
Apathy is bound to sink in, but it can always be shaken. Plus, when you don't necessarily know who you are fighting, it gets hard to rally patriotism. As a superpower, you can necessarily expect everybody to enlist to fight in some odd corner of the world. If our country's invaded, then you'll see enlistment shoot through the roof, but that's impossible now.
And it is impossible. That's why I don't believe the States will be resigned to economic insignificance nor take a back seat to international politics such as Britain, France, and Germany did after WWII. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Problem is... it's the ****, dickshats, weener wankers, no load, can't **** paper pushing pencil dicked WANKERS that are screaming loudest... and as such they are the ones being heard, so their idiotic BS gets put into action...
Ya know what I'd do to drug dealers? Forget putting them in prision... FIRE ON SIGHT. SHOOT TO KILL.
Cause ya know what? Once they are allured by the taste of easy money, they are NOT going back to being straight citizens... just look at CEO's of companies!
Did you know that, if the USA pulled into itself and became isolationist... half the world would go to war, and the other half would starve?
The ONLY countries left RELATIVELY intact would be:
USA
Great Britan
Canada
Japan
Australia (NOBODY hates Australia enough to do anything... damn Kangaroos <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
Maybe a few African tribal "nations"
But that's it... the rest of the "modern world" would STARVE or KILL each other... the US of fricken A is being the global police... and it's killing US!
Hahahaha, you are so awesome.
Hahahaha, you are so awesome. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, tis the easiest thing...
Right now, Drug Dealers carry, on average either
Mac 10's w/ surpressor
M16's
M4's with attatched M203 GL's (yes, they do)
AK47's
Other various assault rifles
Desert Eagles
Glocks
Ect
The STANDARD State or City police officer carries either
9 mm, 16 shot Handgun
OR
From home:
.357 Revolver
.44 Magnum
.44 Longbarrel
And they must own and register those themselves...
I say let em carry a fricken M16...
Though, yes, Athens was invaded many times by many overpowering enemies, history has always shown us that fighting spirit is much more important than fighting numbers. The Spartans showed us this at Thermopylae, the British taught this to the Spanish Armada, and the Nazi Air Force, the South to the North in our Civil War, and, recently, Israel in her war of independence. Is it possible that Athens had no more fighting spirit?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm not sure I understand. The South lost the war. During WWII, Germany had a lot more fighting spirit than Russia did, but Russia still won. What does fighting spirit have to do with victory? - TheClam
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Numbers my dear Watson, numbers, and lots of em. Just like Stalin said ""In the Soviet army it takes more courage to retreat than advance." I'm sure the Soviet fighting spirit was pretty high considering the SS were ethnically clensing their brothers and sisters.
Hahahaha, you are so awesome. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, tis the easiest thing...
Right now, Drug Dealers carry, on average either
Mac 10's w/ surpressor
M16's
M4's with attatched M203 GL's (yes, they do)
AK47's
Other various assault rifles
Desert Eagles
Glocks
Ect <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now how would you know this..... <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But that's it... the rest of the "modern world" would STARVE or KILL each other... the US of fricken A is being the global police... and it's killing US! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is probably more true than I'd like to admit, but there's really no way to reverse it. America is not going to become an isolationist nation any time soon; the massive majority of the people just wouldn't be able to stomach basically participating in the slaughter/starvation of a huge percentage of the Earth's population.
Plus we need the trade. We're already in a state of trade imbalance.
And the oil.
And cheap labor.
And a lot of electronics.
Actually, a lot of other kinds of products too...
America just isn't a self-sufficient nation. Sure, we can produce enough food to feed our population 5 times over, but material-goods wise we kinda need other countries to maintain our standard of living.
I would argue that hubris is just a sign of an empire that is about to fall. Hubris can be found in many other countries (North Korea or China, for example; North Korea isn't an empire and China is growing stronger), that aren't empires close to downfall. I don't think hubris means anything.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Overconfidend politics will turn us agianst ourselves (liberals vrs conservatives). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Liberals vs Conservatives? It's better now that it had been for the entire 19th Century. Politicians practically accused their opponents of raping dead babies.<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Overconfident economics will crash our markets (.com bust),<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->The dotcom bust is over and we're growing again. The greatest danger to our economy is the depletion of oil reserves, but that's one of the most prominent issues in the country. We're talking about it and finding solutions. If we were overconfident, then we wouldn't be doing anything.<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->overconfident militarism will spread our fighters thin. How many countries do we currently have troops in right now? If we had to goto major war with someone (say North Korea, for argument's sake), could our volunteer force take the blow?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Our volunteer force would do fine against North Korea (it's the South Koreans that would have to worry). We've got allies who will defend us, if we get attacked (Europe won't support us in offensive wars, but they would in a defensive war). We've got the most powerful and advanced military in the world, by far (how many troops did we lose in Iraq? I'm pretty sure that the Iraqi military was LARGER than us, in regard to the number of trooops in the area, yet we still won the war, only losing hundreds of troops (we've lost a lot more in the occupation, however). If we need to reinstate a draft, we've got millions of people to draw troops from.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Overconfident Diplomacy will turn our allies against us. On and on.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Australia, Canada, and Great Britain are still close allies. Even France is still close enough to us that it's inconceivable that they'd turn against us in this political atmosphere. Our allies are only **** at us because we've got a neocon president. In another 4 years, we'll have a president who will probably not be a neocon (even if we elect a Republican, it's likely that he won't be a neocon).
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In 200+ years do we really know and understand what freedom is any longer? Can we imagine life without it? When someone says to you, "what if you couldn't just goto the mall, or meet with friends at any hour for any non-malacious reason," do you say "that would suck" in the same spirit you do when you hear about things like the Tsunami disaster over Christmas? "Oh, that's so far away. And we don't get Tsunami's here. Here Uniceff, here's 50 bucks, now I can sleep at night."
Is the <i>loss</i> of freedom so far removed from us that we take it for granted? There is were the danger lies.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We are taking our freedom for granted. Most American teenagers believe that the 1st Amendment goes too far. We've got the Patriot Act, which gives the government the right to violate our 4th Amendment. The government jails both American citizens and citizens of other countries, without charging them, or bringing any evidence forward that shows that they've committed a crime.
Does this **** me off? Yes. I think Bush is an awful president, at the very least, because of these reasons.
Am I scared that we'll lose our freedoms permanently? No. People forget that Lincoln did pretty much the same thing that Bush is doing, when he suspended habeas corpus (http://www.civil-liberties.com/pages/did_lincoln.htm). Yet, our freedoms were returned to us, 5 years later. Depending on how the "War on Terrorism"™ goes, and who our next president is, we may have to do with these violations for a while. Eventually, the American public will get tired with the "War" and the freedoms will be restored.
Isolation helps nobody. If you build a giant wall around your nation, you're not only keeping the outside out - you're also keeping yourself in. But there is a fine line between isolation and "world police." And it needs to be walked.
I feel like a Nar. Durandal says they speak only in metaphor.
For YEARS they were isolationist, then they modernized in about 25 years.
They are now nearly as modern as the US, have about .01% the crime of any other country, mostly being petty theft or the occasional drug related (read, WEED) "violence", which most often is just similar to barroom brawls. The police make daily rounds to check up on, CHAT, and TALK with the locals, often sharing a cup of Sake or the like... and that's the only nation where 6 year old kids can walk to school without some weird dude jumping out and molesting them!
Also, those five countries are the first five I could think of that HAVEN"T been involved in a major land based offensive...
US has never been invaded on mainland since it's creation
Britain was only once, back in midevil times
Japan was twice, but not for many many years
Canada... who cares really... not much there to take, so thus it's been mainly left alone
And who the FARK would invade australia... those damn Kangaroos would kick the **** outa the invaders!
Japan has been imperialist and a world player ever since the mid 1800s.
You're right about ENGLAND, which was invaded successfully only once (William the Conquerer and the Battle of Hastings, which only like...five people died).
The US has been attacked you dolt. Ever heard of the War of 1812 when they burned down our White House?
Canada? We INVADED Canada in the War of 1812 and burned down their capital.
Japan's a special case. Their culture is so tightly knit and their people are so fiercely passionate of just about anything (Mass suicides, both present and past) that has to do with their nation and their honor.
Attacking and fighting someone on the home ground when they have a strong will to fight is completely different from doing so when they don't really have a reason to. I'm not saying North Korea for sure has a stong will to fight, but historically they do, and they have more reason to do so. Despite what was plastered all over the news before we invade Iraq, the common citizen hated their dictator. They just played a chirade to try and save themselves from death.
North Korea may be different, and if we do fight them, it will only be because they make the symbolic "first shot" across the DMZ, and it'll be 50 years ago all over again. The political climate has changed little, the only real difference I can see is that we will be going to war to save South Korea and to show that we don't back down from our word, as apposed to simply to stop the spread of communism. China will still be ****, and will still probably throw forces at us if we get too close.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Liberals vs Conservatives? It's better now that it had been for the entire 19th Century. Politicians practically accused their opponents of raping dead babies.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe. Though I believe that tatics of party members on both sides have gotten rather bitter in the last few years.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The dotcom bust is over and we're growing again. The greatest danger to our economy is the depletion of oil reserves, but that's one of the most prominent issues in the country. We're talking about it and finding solutions. If we were overconfident, then we wouldn't be doing anything.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That doesn't change the fact that we charged blindly and very quickly into it, because of overconfidence. We had <i>faith</i> in vapor companies who sold merchandise lower than what they bought it for. We bought in hook, line, and sinker to the mighty Internet and all it's wonders, and in the end, we were gutted for our hubris.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->We are taking our freedom for granted. Most American teenagers believe that the 1st Amendment goes too far. We've got the Patriot Act, which gives the government the right to violate our 4th Amendment. The government jails both American citizens and citizens of other countries, without charging them, or bringing any evidence forward that shows that they've committed a crime.
Does this **** me off? Yes. I think Bush is an awful president, at the very least, because of these reasons.
Am I scared that we'll lose our freedoms permanently? No. People forget that Lincoln did pretty much the same thing that Bush is doing, when he suspended habeas corpus (http://www.civil-liberties.com/pages/did_lincoln.htm). Yet, our freedoms were returned to us, 5 years later. Depending on how the "War on Terrorism"™ goes, and who our next president is, we may have to do with these violations for a while. Eventually, the American public will get tired with the "War" and the freedoms will be restored.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Minor policy changes are not the same thing as an overall apathy towards basic liberties. As so you elegantly pointed out, much the same thing happened during the Civil War, and many of our wars, actually. Our ammendant rights exist primarily as a way to remove such imposings on our freedoms after they've been forced upon us, not to prevent them from happening. You can't prevent it from happening, it's simply a given that from time to time, bills will be passed that limit our freedoms. It's our responsibility to recognize these bills for what they are, and bring them down using the means we have in our system, or other means so we deem necessary.
What I'm talking about is an entire nation oblivious to the fact that they are free - FREE, damn it. We don't need to listen to these people on federal hill of we don't want to. We can speak for ourselves, and take charge of our own country. Or, we can sit around and complain about how much we hate the person currently sitting in office, or how we're all going to die because the next president is the anti-christ.
Japan has been imperialist and a world player ever since the mid 1800s.
You're right about ENGLAND, which was invaded successfully only once (William the Conquerer and the Battle of Hastings, which only like...five people died).
The US has been attacked you dolt. Ever heard of the War of 1812 when they burned down our White House?
Canada? We INVADED Canada in the War of 1812 and burned down their capital.
Japan's a special case. Their culture is so tightly knit and their people are so fiercely passionate of just about anything (Mass suicides, both present and past) that has to do with their nation and their honor. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Jebus, the stuff they leave out of US History..
Why is it our schools try to make us look good?
tell that to the cold war...
tell that to the cold war... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Cold war was like 2 nerdy kids slapping each other and one of them finally decided that he wasn't an immature cry baby.