Bisexuality
Euoplocephalus
Join Date: 2003-02-21 Member: 13811Members
Join Date: 2003-02-21 Member: 13811Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Aren't we all at least a little bent?</div> Well, let me start this out by saying I'm pretty much a middle of the road bi man. Maybe a slight leaning towards the straight side of things, but not much, and I had an experience that has got me thinking about this.
I've been a believer in the Kinsey Bisexuality scale for quite sometime ( <a href='http://www.kinseyinstitute.org/resources/ak-hhscale.html' target='_blank'>if your not familiar with it</a>), probably since I first came to grips with my sexuality in mid-high school (didn't come out of the closet so to speak until I graduated, and just int he last few months have I told my parents, if you are in the closet let me recommend thinking about telling them, my dad in particular isn't thrilled, but it is really liberating to have everyone to care about know about it).
This weekend though I began to doubt it somewhat. A straight friend of mine, granted under the influence of alcohol, made out with me. A week or two before that his roommate, who is even straighter (I've had my "bi-dar" tickled by the first guy from time to time, but he's previously refused to admit it) tell me during a man to man conversation, that while he considers himself straight there are guys that he thinks are attractive.
Between the two of these experiences, and quite a bit of thinking I think that the Kinsey scale is flawed (though not the basic idea), because it allows you to fall on either of the extremes. I think that no one truly falls on the extremes. We're all at least a little bi. Even if its only finding members of the same occasionally attractive, maybe being willing to make out with one from time to time, to having a serious relationship with one, I doubt that anyone is 100% straight, or **** for that matter, they just can't admit it, in my opinion for cultural reasons.
I think this is the cause of the strong feelings **** marriage. We hate most what we secretly is in us. I really wish that I could change this. And it works both ways of course, while it hurts to have a homophobic person tell me that I can't marry a guy if I fall in love with one hurts a little (though I don't really believe in marriage, its more the being relegated to second class status that bothers me), it hurt far more in high school when I told an openly **** kid that I was bi, and was told that "no, i just hadn't accepted myself enough to admit that I was ****". I also think that this removes the logic against **** marrige that "well if we allow this, we have to allow other things, like beastiality". If we allow that this is something that everyoen feels to some degree (no matter if they repress it), its a far different thing from people whose sexual desires falls far outside what most other people feel.
At any rate, I'd like you all to think and discuss this a bit. Even if you think that these feelings are in some way wrong, its my understanding that one of the basic ideas in Christianity, hell all the monotheistic religions, that man is not perfect. That we will sin, still think about it. Admitting that you may have these feelings to some degree, doesn't mean you have to act on it. And lets also try and leave condemnation for those of us who do chose to act on the feelings out of this. I know that some of you think I'm going to be damned for having sucked off another guy, lets just leave the flames for hell . <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
EDIT: Damn Y'all For Turning My Sexual Orientation (halfway anyways) In To A Curse Word.! YOU BASTARDS! Damn it, now I have to go back and fix every instance of the word **** to homosexual. wait, no I won't...to change it would be to admit that there is something wrong with the word, not the way some asshats use it.
I've been a believer in the Kinsey Bisexuality scale for quite sometime ( <a href='http://www.kinseyinstitute.org/resources/ak-hhscale.html' target='_blank'>if your not familiar with it</a>), probably since I first came to grips with my sexuality in mid-high school (didn't come out of the closet so to speak until I graduated, and just int he last few months have I told my parents, if you are in the closet let me recommend thinking about telling them, my dad in particular isn't thrilled, but it is really liberating to have everyone to care about know about it).
This weekend though I began to doubt it somewhat. A straight friend of mine, granted under the influence of alcohol, made out with me. A week or two before that his roommate, who is even straighter (I've had my "bi-dar" tickled by the first guy from time to time, but he's previously refused to admit it) tell me during a man to man conversation, that while he considers himself straight there are guys that he thinks are attractive.
Between the two of these experiences, and quite a bit of thinking I think that the Kinsey scale is flawed (though not the basic idea), because it allows you to fall on either of the extremes. I think that no one truly falls on the extremes. We're all at least a little bi. Even if its only finding members of the same occasionally attractive, maybe being willing to make out with one from time to time, to having a serious relationship with one, I doubt that anyone is 100% straight, or **** for that matter, they just can't admit it, in my opinion for cultural reasons.
I think this is the cause of the strong feelings **** marriage. We hate most what we secretly is in us. I really wish that I could change this. And it works both ways of course, while it hurts to have a homophobic person tell me that I can't marry a guy if I fall in love with one hurts a little (though I don't really believe in marriage, its more the being relegated to second class status that bothers me), it hurt far more in high school when I told an openly **** kid that I was bi, and was told that "no, i just hadn't accepted myself enough to admit that I was ****". I also think that this removes the logic against **** marrige that "well if we allow this, we have to allow other things, like beastiality". If we allow that this is something that everyoen feels to some degree (no matter if they repress it), its a far different thing from people whose sexual desires falls far outside what most other people feel.
At any rate, I'd like you all to think and discuss this a bit. Even if you think that these feelings are in some way wrong, its my understanding that one of the basic ideas in Christianity, hell all the monotheistic religions, that man is not perfect. That we will sin, still think about it. Admitting that you may have these feelings to some degree, doesn't mean you have to act on it. And lets also try and leave condemnation for those of us who do chose to act on the feelings out of this. I know that some of you think I'm going to be damned for having sucked off another guy, lets just leave the flames for hell . <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
EDIT: Damn Y'all For Turning My Sexual Orientation (halfway anyways) In To A Curse Word.! YOU BASTARDS! Damn it, now I have to go back and fix every instance of the word **** to homosexual. wait, no I won't...to change it would be to admit that there is something wrong with the word, not the way some asshats use it.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
BTW, if there's anyone who is 100% straight, it's AvengerX.
And I'd just say that avenger X had more reasons to deny being at all attracted to guys, that has nothing to do with his actual orientation. The point of this thread was to get people to honestly think about, and hopefuly discuss, their own feelings.
I don't buy the bi thing because the idea of being with another man sexually makes me grimace :|
Seriosuly though, the alcohol had nothing to do with why he wanted to make out with a guy, it just lowered the barriers that he had setup so that he actualy could. So, if you honestly don't want to make out or have sex with a guy, I doubt that getting drunk is going to make it happen (unless you get to the point where you can't tell a guy from a girl and some bastard takes advantage you...which in my opinion is rather unlikely) .
But I think you missed the point of the idea of the gradient. You say that you can find guys attractive, with out wanting to have sex with him. That is exactly what I was saying. I'm noy saying that, "everybodies bi, so hey you, the good looking red head, drop those inhibtions and come **** me." In fact, I wouldn't be suprised to find that I'm in the minoirty, being almost equaly attracted to both genders, and willing to act upon those feelings. I think most people will be far more attracted to one gender and rarely, or never even think about sleeping with the other gender. But that doesn't mean that you can't look at a guy and say their attractive. And if their in someway attractive, well, aren't you at least a little bit bi?
To be honest I think the terminology here is going to cause some problems. I use bisexual to describe myself, because thats what I am. Using it to describe the gradient brings up problems though, especialy considered how much our society has wraped up in the ideas of straight and ****. Maybe that would have been a better aspect of this issue for me to focus on. Now that I think of it my origonal question comes down to semantics, what does bisexual mean? Which was not my intent. What I wanted to discuss was the idea of a gradient of attraction, and the way society deals with it., not what does bisexual mean. Hopefuly it can go that way from here.
Cheese: have you ever thought about why it makes you sick? I've foudn that most of the time, when a person has these deep feelings of revulsion towards something, it rarely comes entirely from within, but rather from societal forces, and bad experiances in life that somehow get associated with with the idea. I'm not implying that you really want to have sex with a guy, and society won't let you, but rather what aspects of society led to the development of this revuslion? I don't want to comment upon you based off four lines written on a internet forum, but the people I find the most straiight are not the ones that make large sweeping remarks about how they'd never ever in any circumstance find a memebr of the same sex the least bit attractive, but rather the ones that never honestly think about it, and as such don't need to comment upon it. The ones that have to make a statement , seem to me to be ahving a hard time dealing with the fact that memebrs of their same sex can be attractive, without there being any implications about being ****. Which is mainly an issue, in my opinion, because our society doesn't on the whole accept the idea of a gradient, and even less so the idea that everyone is somewhere on it, not off the edges. Which leaves people in the position of finding a guy good looking, without wanting to necesseraly actualy do anything with them, and hving no way to deal with it, other than supress it. And given how our society still refuses to accept ***, any leaning towards unacceptability will be met with extremely hard internal conflict. Thats my take on it anyways.
Edit: just relsied I made a fairly large comment on pyschology, which I unfourtunatly know very little about. Pretty much all I've had is bits and pieces learned second hand, and a small amount of considering how a society affects the induvidual (and how you tell) in a cultural anthropology class. If anyone who actualy knows something about psychology that would support, or refut, my claim I'd love to hear it.
I do applaud your approach to the situtation and actually find it to be close to the truth there is always a mix of people, those who are 100% straight and those who are 100% homosexual. Very few fall on either of those sides and almost everyone falls in the middle somewhere. (They just don't want to admit it, hehe.) (Usually due to a few different factors but nonetheless refuse to admit it.)
I don't mean the thought that doing something with him might be wrong in some way, in fact anything connected to "morally right or wrong" takes a few more seconds before it percolates through my brain. I just mean that 1-2 seconds later, I just feel sick to my stomach for even having thought that thought.
So the longest I have ever held onto *** thoughts is 2 seconds. Thats as far as its ever gone. On the other hand I can think, "that guys good looking, in a non-sexual way" without my stomach being threatened at all. I probably wouldn't say it out loud, but thats a different matter.
Its actually this experience of being 99% myself that has done the most to convince me that many, if not all, homosexuals chose to be that way. For example, look at your own experience Euplo...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->it hurt far more in high school when I told an openly **** kid that I was bi, and was told that "no, i just hadn't accepted myself enough to admit that I was ****".<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
These days, if you admit to a homosexual that you have the slightest of homosexual thoughts at any times, they will aggressively proceed to convince you that you are really a closet homosexual yourself who just hasn't "accepted yourself yet". I have to wonder, how many people who are <i>mostly</i> straight and <i>slightly</i> g.ay have been convinced by that rhetoric and started acting as if they were all g.ay?
Now that doesn't mean that I won't go to work and meet some incredible guy on my lunch break but it has yet to happen.
Finding guys attractive? Well I can tell the difference between a guy thats good looking and a guy that definitely isn't but I can do the same for girls and not be attracted to them or want to do anything with them... saying that I've got drunk and got with some pretty scary girls but I've turned down some very pretty blokes before (I dance, it seems to make me register on their g*y-dars for some reason).
As usual, people can do what they want including get with whoever they choose. I know I've got plenty of bi friends and only a couple of 'fully' g*y friends, nothing wrong with it.
You said that there are some people who are g*y and don't believe in bi people, that it's either one or the other. That could be because they decided to 'go g*y' and then made it part of their identity rather than just something random. By identity I mean that if someone were to describe me I'd say I was a 6' skinny geek/hippy and leave it at that as I don't find my sexuality particularly important. Other people class themselves as 'vegans', 'g*y', a certain nationality or a proffession and these things become important to them. They tend to act out the stereotypes just to fit more into that class. I know a girl with french parents (lives in the uk) so she learnt the language, loves french food, loves french men, listens to french music everything.
Ok, slight tangent there but I guess you see what I mean.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->it hurt far more in high school when I told an openly **** kid that I was bi, and was told that "no, i just hadn't accepted myself enough to admit that I was ****".<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
These days, if you admit to a homosexual that you have the slightest of homosexual thoughts at any times, they will aggressively proceed to convince you that you are really a closet homosexual yourself who just hasn't "accepted yourself yet". I have to wonder, how many people who are <i>mostly</i> straight and <i>slightly</i> g.ay have been convinced by that rhetoric and started acting as if they were all g.ay? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmm...I honestly never thought about it in this way, despite my experiences. Probably mostly due to the fact when ever I hear someone say anything about being **** and choice it tends to be along the lines of "Well, they <i>chose</i> to be that way, so they could stop being **** if they <i>wanted</i>" or I assume thats where their going with it, a stop listening. Nothing pisses me of more than to hear that the way I am is a "lifestyle choice". There is though, clearly some merit to what you say. They may not choose to be attracted to the same sex, but choose to adhere to a 100 percent homosexual identity.
This actually not only fits my own experiences, but makes sense as well. As East pointed out we like to assign our identity to a group. I would say that this becomes even more important for people who are on the fringe or completely outside of the mainstream in some way. Having a group of people to identify with makes being outside the mainstream society easier. And clearly being ****, or in my opinion more **** than straight on the bi scale, has been outside the mainstream until just recently.
And I just had an epiphany, thank you. And sorry..explaining it, as its a new idea might get a little convoluted. Until just very recently, at least here in the state, being open that you were attracted to members of the same sex was extremely rare. Even when it started to become more acceptable, or at least there was a visible **** community out there (its my impression that this happened in the US in the eighties to a large extent), there suddenly was a community to invest your identity in and support your coming out. I can't tell you how many coming out stories I've heard that involved a stage of "accepting who I am" in the story. Clearly part of this is simply being raise in a culture that until very recently would not in anyway accept you.
I'd like to draw a parallel here to the civil rights movement in America. While the goals of the movement were to end racism, it ended up creating some as well. One of the things that needed to happen for this to occur was to mobilize the black community. In order to do that they had to make being black something to be proud of, instead of being something that automatically made you a lesser person. The only problem with this was that in doing that, they again separated white and black people, to the point where it was extremely hard for a white person to activly participate, be accepted in any way other than an evil person for that matter, in some groups of the movement . Read <i>Meridian</i> by Alice Walker. Outstanding book on this issue, simply beautifuly written as well. Now this was needed to end institutionalized racism. It also, however also opened up a new set of problems. Now racism is no longer a political issue, but a societal one, that all races contribute to. I think that todays problems pale in comparison to the ones that creating them overcame, but I also think it would be naive to ignore that they exist.
I think a very similar thing happened, or is happening, with the **** rights movement. In the stage of gaining acceptance, you need people to stand up and say "WERE HERE, WERE QUEER" in order to get anything started. So in creating an identity that people can turn to, that they can support, that also separates them from the oppressors in a way that will make it possible to fight them, people far enough to the **** side of the bisexual gradient , created a **** community. What better way to tell people that don't approve of what you are to **** off than to create an identity that is as far away as you can get from them. Once this identity becomes some what set, people will turn to it rather than try and define a new one.
Now back to where I left off. Maybe part of the "accepting who I am" stage that is so often referenced is simply the manifestation of bisexuality; if you look around you, there aren't options for being bi, there are options for being straight (which if you want to sleep with member of the same sex, you clearly aren't) or being outside the mainstream, but still have a community to fall back on, and be ****.
Now I think I should clarify a few points on what I said. These are not a conscious decision. No one thinks, well I go create a **** culture today. They are societal, cultural forces that I somewhat personified.
Second, I'm not condemning the ****, or the black for that matter, for creating these problems that now have to be dealt with. I think the world is a better place now than it was, but that it still needs work.
And what I think (obviously, been saying it in some fashion in all these posts) needs to happen now is for there to be a greater acceptance of the idea of the gradient, and allow people to find their place on it, with out having to pick a label. I think that this is starting to happen. I know that, damn all of them, I hadn't thought about that, pause of happy moment <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> ...ahem...sorry....All my friends have seemed to come to grips with the idea that they are some where on the gradient , where ever it might be. A few of us, like the guy I made out with, don't seem to pinned down where exactly they fit, none of them seem to cling to the idea that they have to be **** or straight. Hanging out with a good group of friends I guess. But yeah, as far as to what you can do, if you want to help this cause is to try to figure out where you fit, and don't make your friends fit one group or the other. Hopefully in the future we can have a culture that doesn't bother to define sexual orientation, and then there will be a whole new set of problems that we created.....I guess thats how it goes.
I can say with utmost certainty I am 100% straight.
If I see two men approach each other in that way, I can't even look at it and turn away.
-If you believe in evolution, you will not turn homosexual because beeing 100% homosexual means no reproduction for you <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
-If you are 100% homosexual and think, that everyone should be homosexual or that everyone should be attracted by you then please have a cold shower and reconsider.
-If you are somewhere in the middle, please make shure that you reproduce in order to save your own gnome.
And for all you "I am homosexual, but my parents wont accept it" people:
Image your parents were homosexual. How would the world have changed?
Right, you would have not been born.
The general "problem" with homosexuality is, that a civilisation with only 100% homosexuals wont survive long witheout modern medicine.
Ok, slight tangent there but I guess you see what I mean. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats exactly what I meant, and I agree with Euplo's comments on the matter too.
Oops... Clicked add reply far too early...
Even if everyone has to witness an act of love between 2 people of the same sex, there are some who would turn away, and eve some who would interject, and break the 2 people apart. I applaude anyone who can sit there are not be bothered by it in a way that coinsides with the ideals of freedom of speech, and of feelings. It's the militant anti-ga*s that annoy me. I have seen people literally spit at my friends, just for holding hands whilst walking down the road. It's not on, and makes you really just want to turn around and hit the person that spat at your friends. It's at that time that you just think to yourself, "Hold on. That person is trying to enforce their tunnel vision of morality upon everyone by force, why should I then lower myself to their level, and attack tham just because they don't believe that those 2 should be able to walk down the road, hand in hand..."
Bisexuality seems to be a phenomenon occuring in higher civilisations and generally high standards of living. It seems to be a byproduct of wealth. I take this from observing any culture that has reached a certain point of decadence.
The ancient greeks, the romans, the persians etc.... . Feudal Japan, absolutisitic France...
In all those societies, the wealthy people had developed bisexual tendencies.
I don't want to imply that all bisexuals are decadent!
I just think, that once we do not have to wory about our imediate survival, and can satisfy all our basic needs and most of out wishes, we tend to seek out new borders. Once we have experience everything in our immediate reach, we want to try new things.
-If you are 100% homosexual and think, that everyone should be homosexual or that everyone should be attracted by you then please have a cold shower and reconsider.
-If you are somewhere in the middle, please make shure that you reproduce in order to save your own gnome. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sigh. I'm not even going to try; I'll just start a flamewar.
As for me personally, suffice it to say my ~15 closest friends and I know that we should never drink together, just to be safe. We're close enough; we'd rather not be any closer. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Evolution doesn't tell you how to live your life. It's a scientific theory, not a philosophy.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->-If you are 100% homosexual and think, that everyone should be homosexual or that everyone should be attracted by you then please have a cold shower and reconsider.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Does homosexual even think this?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->-If you are somewhere in the middle, please make shure that you reproduce in order to save your own gnome.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If people don't want to reproduce, then why should they? We don't have a moral imperative to reproduce.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And for all you "I am homosexual, but my parents wont accept it" people:
Image your parents were homosexual. How would the world have changed?
Right, you would have not been born.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Imagine your parents had one less child. How would the world have changed? Oh wait, your youngest sibling (or you) would never have been born.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The general "problem" with homosexuality is, that a civilisation with only 100% homosexuals wont survive long witheout modern medicine.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So? There won't ever be a civilization with 100% homosexuals. No one wants there to be one.
None of the things you've cited here are a problem with homosexuality.
I personally think that polarized sexuality is pretty rare, and that it's pretty hard to find someone that's either 100% straight or 100% homosexual (no offense to anyone that believes that they are, you could well be for all that I know).
What I wonder is this: for people who find that their "stomach turns" at the thought of participating in same-sex sex acts, or seing same-sex couples being intimate, how much of this feeling is due to their actual sexuality, and how much is due to their own inhibitions or mental "barriers"; social moral or otherwise? Myself, I think that a lot of it might be the latter, especially in the case of seing other couples. I can understand that you don't like the idea of making out with a guy (or girl), but I find it a little more difficult to accept that being repulsed by the sight of same-sex couples making out is entirely grounded in sexuality.
I had a professor once that described sexuality as being a sphere, not a line or straight scale. Imagine a three-dimensional space with three axis intersecting at the center - one is gender identity (male/female), one is sex (male/female), one is sexuality (straight/****) - anyone can fit anywhere within this sphere. For instance, I know a female to male transsexual that would be sitting somewhere under female-sexed, mostly-male identifying, mostly heterosexual (attracted to females, since he identifies as male). I think it's really rare for anyone to fit under a polar extreme under all three categories - but it's more convenient for someone to say "I'm straight" or "I'm bi" as opposed to "I prefer guys most of the time, but I fancy a girl every once in a blue moon" or something like that.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And for all you "I am homosexual, but my parents wont accept it" people:
Image your parents were homosexual. How would the world have changed?
Right, you would have not been born.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My parents wouldn't be terribly thrilled to find out that I bat for both teams, but it's not about whether I'll have children or not (or at least, that's not the primary reason) - it's simply that they don't like the idea that I'm anything other than "normal." That, and if you factor in that I'm bi, then there really isn't that worry that I won't be cranking out babies, since I don't only prefer one sex - yet it's still an issue.
Ditto. With a little stronger leaning to straight. But still bi.
I agree with the rest.
The "grimmace" or "sickness" people feel when they see or think something homosexual is something socially constructed though. Why do you think g.ay is a banned word on this forum? Society has turned the word "G.ay" into something that means "bad".
"Dude... thats g.ay"
"omg pulled over... the cop is totally g.ay"
"This homework is g.ay"
Generally when i hear stuff like that i just...
<img src='http://osc3.com/members/trevelyan/rolleyespew.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Because its a sign of immaturity to me.
<!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I always get an urge to tell them to get a room.
-If you believe in evolution, you will not turn homosexual because beeing 100% homosexual means no reproduction for you <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
-If you are 100% homosexual and think, that everyone should be homosexual or that everyone should be attracted by you then please have a cold shower and reconsider.
-If you are somewhere in the middle, please make shure that you reproduce in order to save your own gnome. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good thing those are opinions and not facts. Also, I have no intention of ever having children for two reasons :
- There's plenty of other people making babies out there and I don't need to add my touch to overpopulation of the Earth.
- I hate young infants with a passion, crying, ****, *******, etc.. etc... oh, and they cost alot. So I'll leave the business to those that WANTS them.
Note : I wouldn't change my mind on this even if I was straight.
----
Now, about the scale, I figure that people are simply sexual, and that we group ourselves into categories, like it's been mentionned earlier. See, when I was younger, I had sex with men and women, but in the end, I found the sex between to guy much more enjoyable and easier to get, so I stuck to that. I call myself **** simply because if I say "bi", then everyone assume it's 50-50. There's no space for "in between bi and ****" or "in between bi and straight" in people's mind.
----
<b>About being disgusted</b> :
Those are disgusted by the act of two men making out or something to that extent, it's simply a mind barrier that's fused in your brain since you're about 6 years old (the age were we start becoming who we are). This is because of what your parents thought you to be "normal". It's the "Myth of the Cavern" all over again.
For exemple : have you ever seen any other form of animal except the humans to be toroughly disgusted by there own exrements? No, there's a reason for that : since we were young, we were taught to think it smells bad (and it smells bad because we think it does, not because it do. A dog doesn't run away when you it poops, even though there scent is a lot more develloped than ours!).
It's the same thing for sexuality. Everything other than a guy and a girl is being thaught to people as being "abnormal" when it's not. There's a reason why **** people don't find straight people kissing "disgusting", even if it's outside there tastes.
I was taught since my younger years that there was no problem with two man kissing together. Hence, for me, it's not disgusting nor is it a problem to my eye.
It's all a matter of education (and thus, culture).
---
For the *** living in places like Texas and other similar place in the U.S, you have my sympathies. For *** living in middle east and other places where you'd get hang for having these kind of thoughts, you have my pity.
I'm just content in living in a place where I can marry a man or a woman and still have full <i>equals</i> benefits in both.
Seriosuly though, the alcohol had nothing to do with why he wanted to make out with a guy, it just lowered the barriers that he had setup so that he actualy could. So, if you honestly don't want to make out or have sex with a guy, I doubt that getting drunk is going to make it happen (unless you get to the point where you can't tell a guy from a girl and some bastard takes advantage you...which in my opinion is rather unlikely) .
But I think you missed the point of the idea of the gradient. You say that you can find guys attractive, with out wanting to have sex with him. That is exactly what I was saying. I'm noy saying that, "everybodies bi, so hey you, the good looking red head, drop those inhibtions and come **** me." In fact, I wouldn't be suprised to find that I'm in the minoirty, being almost equaly attracted to both genders, and willing to act upon those feelings. I think most people will be far more attracted to one gender and rarely, or never even think about sleeping with the other gender. But that doesn't mean that you can't look at a guy and say their attractive. And if their in someway attractive, well, aren't you at least a little bit bi?
To be honest I think the terminology here is going to cause some problems. I use bisexual to describe myself, because thats what I am. Using it to describe the gradient brings up problems though, especialy considered how much our society has wraped up in the ideas of straight and ****. Maybe that would have been a better aspect of this issue for me to focus on. Now that I think of it my origonal question comes down to semantics, what does bisexual mean? Which was not my intent. What I wanted to discuss was the idea of a gradient of attraction, and the way society deals with it., not what does bisexual mean. Hopefuly it can go that way from here.
Cheese: have you ever thought about why it makes you sick? I've foudn that most of the time, when a person has these deep feelings of revulsion towards something, it rarely comes entirely from within, but rather from societal forces, and bad experiances in life that somehow get associated with with the idea. I'm not implying that you really want to have sex with a guy, and society won't let you, but rather what aspects of society led to the development of this revuslion? I don't want to comment upon you based off four lines written on a internet forum, but the people I find the most straiight are not the ones that make large sweeping remarks about how they'd never ever in any circumstance find a memebr of the same sex the least bit attractive, but rather the ones that never honestly think about it, and as such don't need to comment upon it. The ones that have to make a statement , seem to me to be ahving a hard time dealing with the fact that memebrs of their same sex can be attractive, without there being any implications about being ****. Which is mainly an issue, in my opinion, because our society doesn't on the whole accept the idea of a gradient, and even less so the idea that everyone is somewhere on it, not off the edges. Which leaves people in the position of finding a guy good looking, without wanting to necesseraly actualy do anything with them, and hving no way to deal with it, other than supress it. And given how our society still refuses to accept ***, any leaning towards unacceptability will be met with extremely hard internal conflict. Thats my take on it anyways.
Edit: just relsied I made a fairly large comment on pyschology, which I unfourtunatly know very little about. Pretty much all I've had is bits and pieces learned second hand, and a small amount of considering how a society affects the induvidual (and how you tell) in a cultural anthropology class. If anyone who actualy knows something about psychology that would support, or refut, my claim I'd love to hear it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
See I was always 100% neutral on it, if two guys want to do that fine with me but I don't want to be involved, then one day at work two guys were making out in the middle of the store while they were eating, every time I see two guys doing anything homosexual now I see that image in my head and my stomach lurches.
I always get an urge to tell them to get a room. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unfortunetly do the same to the homosexual couple and you'll most likely run into one of those "I'm here n' queer SO TO F#@*ING BAD" people. Homophobic? Naw man... i just want to finish my soup without listening the the slurping sounds of people sucking face. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo-->
edit: <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->See I was always 100% neutral on it, if two guys want to do that fine with me but I don't want to be involved, then one day at work two guys were making out in the middle of the store while they were eating, every time I see two guys doing anything homosexual now I see that image in my head and my stomach lurches.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wait... they made out WHILE they were eating? <b>o_O</b>
I always get an urge to tell them to get a room. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unfortunetly do the same to the homosexual couple and you'll most likely run into one of those "I'm here n' queer SO TO F#@*ING BAD" people. Homophobic? Naw man... i just want to finish my soup without listening the the slurping sounds of people sucking face. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo-->
edit: <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->See I was always 100% neutral on it, if two guys want to do that fine with me but I don't want to be involved, then one day at work two guys were making out in the middle of the store while they were eating, every time I see two guys doing anything homosexual now I see that image in my head and my stomach lurches.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wait... they made out WHILE they were eating? <b>o_O</b> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, WHILE they were EATING...TACOS!
I always get an urge to tell them to get a room. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unfortunetly do the same to the homosexual couple and you'll most likely run into one of those "I'm here n' queer SO TO F#@*ING BAD" people. Homophobic? Naw man... i just want to finish my soup without listening the the slurping sounds of people sucking face. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, well there's different way of kissing without being impolite. A couple (Man/man, girl/girl or man/girl) making out with a french kiss and everything, I think it's a little bit too much.
But you certainly won't see me repulsed if they simply do a gentle kiss or hold out hands. And that's why most **** couples are provocative, because doing of the two I just mentionned give them bad looks on the street, even though it's a perfectly normal and polite thing to do.
You may really enjoy the company of men and be a man yourself. If you choose to take this to a sexual level then that may become your sexual orientation.
Sexual orientation is of course, purely psychological. Your hormones may be raging but what they are raging at or for is dependant upon the human in question.
I don't believe we're all a little **** or all a bit bisexual. I believe that we are what we choose to be, for the most part. There are instances where I believe environment determines sexual orientation but for the most part, I believe it to be a choice OR series of choices that has determined that individuals sexuality.
Now that I'm done babbling about my views, I'll answer the question at hand.
Aren't we all a little bisexual?
No. I'm not. Because being bisexual means interaction or thoughts in a sexual way and never have I imagined myself in a homosexual situation. Neither do I desire a homosexual relationship or ever have.
I think you're confusing natural, healthy same-sex attraction with unnatural homosexual attraction. Of course we all crave attention from our same sex but it doesn't mean it's sexual.
In today's society we treat sexual orientation like we do hair color. All different shades. But the fact is, homosexuality is unnatural.
You're not born ****.
SOURCE: <a href='http://www.narth.com/docs/whitehead2.html' target='_blank'>http://www.narth.com/docs/whitehead2.html</a>
FACT.
~ DarkATi
I always get an urge to tell them to get a room. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unfortunetly do the same to the homosexual couple and you'll most likely run into one of those "I'm here n' queer SO TO F#@*ING BAD" people. Homophobic? Naw man... i just want to finish my soup without listening the the slurping sounds of people sucking face. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo-->
edit: <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->See I was always 100% neutral on it, if two guys want to do that fine with me but I don't want to be involved, then one day at work two guys were making out in the middle of the store while they were eating, every time I see two guys doing anything homosexual now I see that image in my head and my stomach lurches.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wait... they made out WHILE they were eating? <b>o_O</b> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, WHILE they were EATING...TACOS! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is that even physically possible? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
You may really enjoy the company of men and be a man yourself. If you choose to take this to a sexual level then that may become your sexual orientation.
Sexual orientation is of course, purely psychological. Your hormones may be raging but what they are raging at or for is dependant upon the human in question.
I don't believe we're all a little **** or all a bit bisexual. I believe that we are what we choose to be, for the most part. There are instances where I believe environment determines sexual orientation but for the most part, I believe it to be a choice OR series of choices that has determined that individuals sexuality.
Now that I'm done babbling about my views, I'll answer the question at hand.
Aren't we all a little bisexual?
No. I'm not. Because being bisexual means interaction or thoughts in a sexual way and never have I imagined myself in a homosexual situation. Neither do I desire a homosexual relationship or ever have.
I think you're confusing natural, healthy same-sex attraction with unnatural homosexual attraction. Of course we all crave attention from our same sex but it doesn't mean it's sexual.
In today's society we treat sexual orientation like we do hair color. All different shades. But the fact is, homosexuality is unnatural.
You're not born ****.
SOURCE: <a href='http://www.narth.com/docs/whitehead2.html' target='_blank'>http://www.narth.com/docs/whitehead2.html</a>
FACT.
~ DarkATi<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Very interesting research, and it looks quite compelling. Still, I'm glad you'll be the one recieving the obligatory flames for the mere mention of the idea, rather than me. *hides from the coming onslaught*