The Sledgehammer Doctrine
Faskalia
Wechsellichtzeichenanlage Join Date: 2004-09-12 Member: 31651Members, Constellation
Wechsellichtzeichenanlage Join Date: 2004-09-12 Member: 31651Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">doctrine != tactic</div> Requirements:
-Server min. size: 8vs8
-Voice comm
When playing this doctrine you want to make shure that:
-You do have a advanced armory 2 minutes before the second hive is up.
-You do have saved about 120 res 2 minutes before the second hive is up.
How do we achieve these 2 goals?
-There are no weapons handed out before the AA is up.
-Marines should only be given the ammount of ammo/meds they need.
-Desired upgrades are au1 and wu2
-The armory should be protected with a single pack of mines
-Dont try to lock a SINGLE hive location
-Electrify is not an option
-Turrets are not an option
-You are comm and base guard.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A build order based on this doctrine looks like this:
-IP
-Armory
-Arms Lab
-AU1
-WU1
-Mines for Armroy
-Advanced Armory
-IP
-WU2
-Obs
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Once your obs is build make shure that you scan the hive locations regularly.
If you have found an unbuild hive it is time to perform the sledgehammer:
Beacon and hand out 2-3 HMGs 3-4 SGs and maybe 1 GL, as well as 3-4 welders. Let your marines hump the armory and send them to a hive. If you have 20 res to spare research catpacks.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The only open question is:
-Which hive to attack?
--This depends on several factors:
---What chambers do the aliens have?
---Where are those chambers located?
---How many and what lifeforms do the aliens have?
Some small examples:
The unbuild hive is heavily infested with OCs ->attack the first hive
EC is main and there are 2 sens in the vents near CC ->attack EC
Aliens have MC, but no MC at their unbuild hive ->attack main hive
Aliens have MC and 2-3 Fades ->attack unbuild hive
There are much more scenarios and combinations of them are also quite possible.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Assuming that you have succesfully taken down one of the hives the aliens are having a huge disadvantage and the rest of the game should be like a tea party.
If you did not succeed in taking down one hive and were not able to take down several higher lifeforms during trying so. It is usually GG.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To sum it up: If you try a sledgehammer it is always a turning point in the game.
In other words: It is a do or die in most cases. Take down the hive with a single massive assault or die trying so.
post scriptum:
If you write something like "OMG your tactic sucks, like the big one" i am going to slap you in the face. It is "OMG your doctrine sucks, like the big one" <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
-Server min. size: 8vs8
-Voice comm
When playing this doctrine you want to make shure that:
-You do have a advanced armory 2 minutes before the second hive is up.
-You do have saved about 120 res 2 minutes before the second hive is up.
How do we achieve these 2 goals?
-There are no weapons handed out before the AA is up.
-Marines should only be given the ammount of ammo/meds they need.
-Desired upgrades are au1 and wu2
-The armory should be protected with a single pack of mines
-Dont try to lock a SINGLE hive location
-Electrify is not an option
-Turrets are not an option
-You are comm and base guard.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A build order based on this doctrine looks like this:
-IP
-Armory
-Arms Lab
-AU1
-WU1
-Mines for Armroy
-Advanced Armory
-IP
-WU2
-Obs
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Once your obs is build make shure that you scan the hive locations regularly.
If you have found an unbuild hive it is time to perform the sledgehammer:
Beacon and hand out 2-3 HMGs 3-4 SGs and maybe 1 GL, as well as 3-4 welders. Let your marines hump the armory and send them to a hive. If you have 20 res to spare research catpacks.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The only open question is:
-Which hive to attack?
--This depends on several factors:
---What chambers do the aliens have?
---Where are those chambers located?
---How many and what lifeforms do the aliens have?
Some small examples:
The unbuild hive is heavily infested with OCs ->attack the first hive
EC is main and there are 2 sens in the vents near CC ->attack EC
Aliens have MC, but no MC at their unbuild hive ->attack main hive
Aliens have MC and 2-3 Fades ->attack unbuild hive
There are much more scenarios and combinations of them are also quite possible.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Assuming that you have succesfully taken down one of the hives the aliens are having a huge disadvantage and the rest of the game should be like a tea party.
If you did not succeed in taking down one hive and were not able to take down several higher lifeforms during trying so. It is usually GG.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To sum it up: If you try a sledgehammer it is always a turning point in the game.
In other words: It is a do or die in most cases. Take down the hive with a single massive assault or die trying so.
post scriptum:
If you write something like "OMG your tactic sucks, like the big one" i am going to slap you in the face. It is "OMG your doctrine sucks, like the big one" <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Comments
-You do have a advanced armory 2 minutes before the second hive is up.
A build order based on this doctrine looks like this:
-IP
-Armory
...(75 res)...
-Advanced Armory
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How exactly do these sync up? Your AA upgrade comes late enough in your build order, that I imagine your AA isn't going to beat the Hive by 2 minutes very often.
I prefer a similar but somewhat faster sledgehammer build:
--IP
--Armory
--Armslab
--A1
--W1
--IP
--Save about 60 res, hand out ~4 SG, 2 Welders, 1-2 Minepacks, rush primary hive
You can do this while the second armslab upgrade is about 2/3 done, as it will finish before you get there. All told, you can be hitting the hive at about 2:30-3:00 with a lot of force. The exact speed/amount of weapony depends on how many RTs you got up, how much rfk, etc
NS is no pure RTS, you cannot have a fix build order. In Starcraft all Marines perform the same as well as all Hydralisks.
Things in NS are different because of the human aspect of your units and thus using a fix build order will lead to frustration and losses quite often.
HMGs suck for taking down hives, and early in the game a shotgun should be just as usefull in the hands of your marines for taking out those fades (HMG should only be used to stop onos's, or to guard long coridors. This strat is to early for onos, and hives arent in coridors.)
Shotguns > Hives. I Get an arms lab right off the bat, climb right up to weap 2 or 3 depending on time, get cats, and rush a hive.
It takes less then 10 seconds to liquidate a hive with 6 shotguns I believe.
With catpacks, and your 8 marines on the field, the hive will be gone in less then 5.
Sigh, i should have never given that build in the first place.
But i cant turn back the wheel of time, can i?
What upgrades you do research should be determined during every single game anew.
Having an upgraded armory before the second hive is up makes this doctrine more versatile than just tyring to SG down a hive. Mixed forces > uniformation.
If my sledgehammer fails, but my team took down higher lifeforms during their attempt to take down the hive i can still go for proto tech in order to battle 2 hive aliens.
But I still think I have a better chance of pulling off the hit.
Well you do not need the pg. And it is economycally save, as long as you take down a hive or lifeforms for 100+ res
Well you do not need the pg. And it is economycally save, as long as you take down a hive or lifeforms for 100+ res <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes rapier has custom to do those pure baconrushes, problem is that you can easily decapitate those rushes and do what ever what everywhere else. Meaning that you can easily sacrifice that hive and kill their base.
Giving that Pg in hive somewhat eliminates aliens team preparations to the rush, catsg with 4 guys about 10 seconds, nuff said.
And how often do you kill aliens worth 100+ res during normal 2hive takedown. If those fades are good you might not even kill them, meaning you have ruined your economy for nothing.
By the time the aliens reach the hive theres no site of a marine anywhere. The phase gate isnt glowing or making noise either because it's recycling.
Its a good scare tactic that makes the aliens all think your hacking <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
By the time the aliens reach the hive theres no site of a marine anywhere. The phase gate isnt glowing or making noise either because it's recycling.
Its a good scare tactic that makes the aliens all think your hacking <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes if you do it really properly you can have the same effect than in those weld-spot maps where aliens just lose 3hives by a puff. Obviously by that the aliens arent knowing what they do and marine does, same sentence goes for both happenings.
Please explain what you mean by doctrine within NS and how it is different from a tactic and please provide examples of other already established doctrines within NS to compare it with -- It seems like what you call "doctrine" is usually called "tactic" within the NS community.
Back to your proposal -- One weakness of this plan is that the marine base is wide open so a fade or even a skulk could eat up the armslab and AA while your teammates attack the hive. Also, it requires a team that works well together so they will all move toward the hive together, cover each other, and weld each other - it's a big requirement. Furthermore, if aliens work together and spot the marching marines, a lerk can slow down the marine's progress giving the other aliens enough time to respond and/or attack the marine base.
These are just a couple of problems I can see. Overall, though, this is a great tactic making use of the several most neglected marine tools: welders, scan, and combined arms.
[EDIT] What Faskalia describes looks more like a tactic than a doctrine.
By the time the aliens reach the hive theres no site of a marine anywhere. The phase gate isnt glowing or making noise either because it's recycling.
Its a good scare tactic that makes the aliens all think your hacking <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nice.