I agree with jmms (ssh), NS wouldn't be NS without the movement skills present thanks to HL1. I really can't imagine NS, nor want to imagine NS without them.
As for the others, most of them seem like good ideas, provided this doesn't turn into a feature creep. What exactly would integrated clan support involve?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Vehicles and outdoor maps New weapons (sniper rifle, flamethrower, etc.) Training level New marine tech (new structures or upgrades) New alien chamber New alien Alternate fire for all weapons/abilities <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Flayra, I have a request. All of the above, it must be added!
<!--QuoteBegin-JmmsbndZeroZeroSeven+May 6 2005, 10:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JmmsbndZeroZeroSeven @ May 6 2005, 10:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> First and foremost, I <b>implore</b> you to port over the current physics (most of it, at least). NS wouldn't be NS without it's wide variety of movement options (bunnyhopping, glide jumping, etc). See points five and six.
Second of all, all the maps could use some "lubrication". Give SaltzBad original credit for this. If aliens would get stuck on small invisible clips less, and perhaps wouldn't run into damn invisible clips at the top of most ramps, etc (you get my point), they would be a lot more fun and a lot easier to play.
Sixth, a quake-style jumping system (where a jump command is queue'd instead of gone to waste if the jump key is hit and the player has not yet hit the ground.) would be nice, and would help new players learn to bunnyhop more easily.
Seventh, no vehicles/large outdoor areas, please.
Tenth, a faster dev cycle. I know this is being worked on already, but it would be almost a necessity. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> 1. I disagree, I think that the new version should not include these artifacts from an old engine. The game should not rely on glitches in the engine. With a new engine, the game could be balanced without bunnyhopping, glide jumping, etc
2. The new engine should help in this area since mappers won't be hitting all the limits of the engine.
6. I think the game should be balanced without old engine bugs such as bunnyhopping therefore this wouldn't be needed.
7. I agree, I don't think vehicals fit the setting of NS
10. As soon as you can start financing the development of NS:S, then you can have a say on a faster development cycle.
obuhNot Quite Smart at NSJoin Date: 2003-03-31Member: 15072Members, Constellation
bhop isn't considered a bug anymore, welcome to a couple of years ago. And yeah, it would incredibly suck not to have bhop and the other movement caracteristics HL1 has.
Man..i wish i could choose all those <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
obuhNot Quite Smart at NSJoin Date: 2003-03-31Member: 15072Members, Constellation
edited May 2005
Define proper. Do you mean like in HL2 or something ? It has some sort of stupid acceleration 'trick' too.
Removing bhop and such would make the game too slow and boring for me. I guess people who can't do it would be pleased to see this evil evil exploit gone though.
Proper would be "as close to reality as possible" ie, no acceleration when strafing in midair, no acceleration when jumping, etc. IF we remove bunnyhopping, it is imperative to find a replacement for the aliens. You can say "learn to ambush" as much as you want, but bunnyhopping is an essential skill, especially for ambushes, and to run away. If we can have a replacement that doesn't need as much "skill" it would be perfect, for both ease of use, and for the least experienced of us as well.
b hopping and such is still an exploit. the question is not weither the players want it left in but rather was it something the dev team had in mind for you to beable to orginally do. If it was, then yes, its a movemnt 'skill' that you'd have to just take time to figure out how to do it, but if not, then it should be removed. I also belive that mp_blockscripts should be included. Scripts hit more buttons that for your skill level you are capable of doing, thats not skill, thats nub-ish, take the time to use fast switch and fire your pistol your self, not hit 'c' and have it fast switch, empty your pistol in less than a second, and fast switch back to your lmg for you <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
obuhNot Quite Smart at NSJoin Date: 2003-03-31Member: 15072Members, Constellation
edited May 2005
<!--QuoteBegin-Stehil+ a galaxy far, far away--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Stehil @ a galaxy far, far away)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->b hopping and such is still an exploit. the question is not weither the players want it left in but rather was it something the dev team had in mind for you to beable to orginally do.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Look <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=1739&hl=bunny&view=findpost&p=21730' target='_blank'>here</a> and <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=81373&st=135#entry1252682' target='_blank'>here</a>.
And for mp_blockscripts : meh. Nothing is likely to change in this awesome community, so I guess blockscripts will keep making people happy, knowing that the script lamers won't be able to replace skill with lines that play the game for them.
I don't think people understand the idea of the ranking skill. Its NOT just to rank your skill, its so a really high leveled skilled player dosn't join a server with low level skill players and completly dominates the game. Atleast thats what I got from it and I dont see how thats a bad idea? or why eveyones so against it just because of the word rank.
urinalcakeCan't work a sound cardUnited StatesJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7799Members
They are all very great updates. The only problem, we can only choose from one.
If you break it down, NS is more of a indoor game, and in my mind, should stay that way. Having vehicles and such (excluding elevators, gravity rifts, portals and a space elevator?) would defeat the purpose of indoor play.
A new alien? That would be cool, thats been discussed a lot. In my opinion, all the bases are covered now.. but seeing new and exciting stuff would be cool.
In my mind, there should be more support between the players of the community and the actual players. So the people who post here, who take part in competitive, who do stuff like nslearn or nsradio.. and the people who are just regular players, who never do much.
So clan support, which we have a good amount of and its starting to grow again with 3.0 final, would be my best bet. RSS Feeds of members/stats and such, real time scores, real time player analysis and such would be really cool.
New marine tech would be very cool too, because in my mind theres still a lot of dynamic stuff that could happen.
You know hivesight? Why not make it something like that one game, Alien Swarm, has it. Hivesight for aliens.. you get to see what your fellow teammates have.. their health, name and ammo of current gun. But only after an upgrade, called like "Status Transponder" or something.. There are so many avenues for this game.. but you have to keep one thing in mind, you can't change the game too much.. or it won't be the NS we all know and love.
I could think of more, if I had time.. trying to work right now though :o
"Proper would be "as close to reality as possible" ie, no acceleration when strafing in midair, no acceleration when jumping, etc. IF we remove bunnyhopping, it is imperative to find a replacement for the aliens. You can say "learn to ambush" as much as you want, but bunnyhopping is an essential skill, especially for ambushes, and to run away. If we can have a replacement that doesn't need as much "skill" it would be perfect, for both ease of use, and for the least experienced of us as well. "
replacement huh? how about leap.. isn't that the whole idea of it? oh wait... aliens dont need to use leap anymore because they can pretty much gain the same amount of speed by bhoping without using adren or wasting time changing weapons.
<!--QuoteBegin-JmmsbndZeroZeroSeven+May 6 2005, 10:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JmmsbndZeroZeroSeven @ May 6 2005, 10:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> As a clanner, I have a few opinions here.
First and foremost, I <b>implore</b> you to port over the current physics (most of it, at least). NS wouldn't be NS without it's wide variety of movement options (bunnyhopping, glide jumping, etc). See points five and six.
Second of all, all the maps could use some "lubrication". Give SaltzBad original credit for this. If aliens would get stuck on small invisible clips less, and perhaps wouldn't run into damn invisible clips at the top of most ramps, etc (you get my point), they would be a lot more fun and a lot easier to play.
Third of all, some new marine/alien tech would be <b>nice</b>, but not really a top priority.
Fourth, some type of integrated clan features would be nice.
Fifth, mp_blockscripts <b>should not be included</b>.
Sixth, a quake-style jumping system (where a jump command is queue'd instead of gone to waste if the jump key is hit and the player has not yet hit the ground.) would be nice, and would help new players learn to bunnyhop more easily.
Seventh, no vehicles/large outdoor areas, please.
Eight, random shotgun spread and the removal of the "shotgun bug" would be very ideal (excuse the slight off-topicness).
Ninth, it would be ideal if the game could be a little more linear. Perhaps something even as radical as a "fourth hive" could help achieve this. Basically, the game is much too alien sided when they get 2 hives. Keep it as much skill-oriented as possible.
Tenth, a faster dev cycle. I know this is being worked on already, but it would be almost a necessity.
Eleventh, VAC[2] support and steam mygames integration. Once the latter is completed, NS will do anything from grow to explode in popularity.
That is all I can think of at the moment, I will edit this post or make a new reply if I think of anything else.
Unfortunately, as much as I don't want to admit it, he's right. As for playing for another of the top clans, we, and many others will feel the same way as this post is.
The current physics are a must, the game wouldn't be the game if it weren't for the way the physics are now. HL2's current movement is much too slow for NS to be NS, so it is a must.
Marine and alien tech, obviously a must.
blockscripts is retarded, forlorn said it best with. "Where Blizzard adds a macro editor to World of Warcraft, Unknown Worlds adds mp_blockscripts to NS."
Quake style jumping isn't really a necessity, I don't think it would be worth the time to work on IMO.
No vehicles, large scale maps wouldn't be too bad though, seeing as there are phase, and maybe something similar could be implemented for aliens.
Like said earlier, a fast and smart developer team is an absolute must. Your favorite friends probably won't help you in the long run Charlie. Pick dedicated, loyal people to help you progress this game to it's maximum potential, and nothing less.
I would've preferred an 'all of the above' button, or the ability to select multiple, but I'll just list my thoughts here. In small text to save size, these are just off the top of my head. ^^
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>Vehicles & Outdoor Maps(My vote): I voted for this one, though more for the 'OMG FUN' aspect, rather than balance and actual gameplay... However, this wouldn't be too bad. Outdoor maps could be properly implemented, allowing for movement of large-scale groups/units, but have significant amounts of cover, as well as a height limit(laser grid, dome, or lack of breathability). The outdoor maps have the potential to be massive battles or classic style play, all in the sizing, and vehicles would enhance this. There could be varying sizes in them, ranging from a previously suggested Goliath style mech walker, to a hoverbike, or a smaller robot controlled remotely and with welding capabilities or something. There assuredly should be a very restricted range of them, but as long as they're all very distinct, it should tie very well into the theme of NS.
New Weapons(Would be my fourth pick): These'd rock, since there are only four primary weapons(LMG, SG, HMG, and GL), one secondary(Handgun), and three tertiary weapons(Knife, Welder, and Grenade). Something like a flamethrower would add more strategy to the game, especially if it had to be researched farther into the game. However, as I've said above, keep the available weapons small in number, or else it'll turn into CS with Aliens. Perhaps just one or two more, like the flamethrower, an improved handgun, or some sort of long range artillery style gun(not a sniper, could be rockets or a shell).
Training Level(Fifth pick): I don't know about you, but I see a lot of instances where someone can ruin the fun by not knowing what they're doing. For example, if someone gets an HA and GL without really knowing, and they just try to rambo, they waste the res that could've gone to a productive player doing something to benefit their team. As for Aliens, if a new person just Skulks the entire game, they'll create a lot of wait time for respawn early on, give Marines extra res, and just drag down the resources other players could get and use, because they don't understand how the game works. If there was a training map, they could learn the basics neccesary to play, and it'd be much better than just telling them to play combat, which IMO does little to prepare for standard, other than getting them information on how to attack.
New Marine Tech(Sixth pick): If new weapons or vehicles are added, these are a must. Just a few extra advanced buildings though, perhaps a vehicle nanoassembler, a building made specifically for advanced weapons, rather than the advanced armory, or a 'trap' for smaller Aliens that would entrap them in massively powerful electromagnets and send an alarm(maybe deal slight damage, fire once, and last only a few seconds?).
New Alien Chamber(Third pick): If the Marines are to get new stuff, so would the Aliens. Figuring out a new chamber and whether or not to give it its own line of upgrades is tough, but it's not impossible. Maybe a chamber that harnesses nanites to create abilities to 'anti-weld' certain things(Disintegrate), lower the effectiveness of or possibly damage certain Marine structures in the direct area of the Alien(Hack), and to give static to Marines, causing that unit to show up poorly, if at all, on motion tracking and scans(only for commander view), and to cause strange things to happen to the HUDs of Marines near it(Static). I think that'd be cool... >_>
New Alien(Second pick): I'd say only one more, two only if it really seems like it's needed for balanced. To me, Aliens seem to need something that can divert damage, a support creature that isn't as frail as a Gorge, but not quite a Lerk. Some abilities like a flashbang style effect or burrowing would be nice, as well as something along the lines of channeling their energy to makes bullets slow down and move towards the metal floors/walls slightly, so that they hit Aliens less. No clue what would be good for a seventh Alien....
Alternate Fire(Don't care): Personally, I think the menu is a perfect use for right click. If some weapons were to be assigned an extra mode, I'd prefer a bound key.
Clan & Ranking(Wouldn't vote on it): Eh. This matters a lot to some people, but the rest care little, from what I've seen.</span>
I can't limit myself to just being a number in the poll. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If, by integrated clan support you mean that clans/server admins can edit a skin for themselves and it would actually work, than thats my vote. Otherwise, I've gotta go with new marine tech. Like an auto targeting system. (A reticule appears over uncloaked aliens within a marine's field of vision, not an aimbot. )
<!--QuoteBegin-KungFuDiscoMonkey+May 7 2005, 10:39 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (KungFuDiscoMonkey @ May 7 2005, 10:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-JmmsbndZeroZeroSeven+May 6 2005, 10:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JmmsbndZeroZeroSeven @ May 6 2005, 10:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> First and foremost, I <b>implore</b> you to port over the current physics (most of it, at least). NS wouldn't be NS without it's wide variety of movement options (bunnyhopping, glide jumping, etc). See points five and six.
Second of all, all the maps could use some "lubrication". Give SaltzBad original credit for this. If aliens would get stuck on small invisible clips less, and perhaps wouldn't run into damn invisible clips at the top of most ramps, etc (you get my point), they would be a lot more fun and a lot easier to play.
Sixth, a quake-style jumping system (where a jump command is queue'd instead of gone to waste if the jump key is hit and the player has not yet hit the ground.) would be nice, and would help new players learn to bunnyhop more easily.
Seventh, no vehicles/large outdoor areas, please.
Tenth, a faster dev cycle. I know this is being worked on already, but it would be almost a necessity. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> 1. I disagree, I think that the new version should not include these artifacts from an old engine. The game should not rely on glitches in the engine. With a new engine, the game could be balanced without bunnyhopping, glide jumping, etc
2. The new engine should help in this area since mappers won't be hitting all the limits of the engine.
6. I think the game should be balanced without old engine bugs such as bunnyhopping therefore this wouldn't be needed.
7. I agree, I don't think vehicals fit the setting of NS
10. As soon as you can start financing the development of NS:S, then you can have a say on a faster development cycle. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> 1. I disagree with your statement. Movement techniques add more skill to the game and make it more fun to play. At the very least, it gives you something to do, rather than walking in a straight line. The game is already balanced with these movement features integrated, and not supporting them would make game balance another headache.
<!--QuoteBegin-Stehil+May 7 2005, 01:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Stehil @ May 7 2005, 01:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> b hopping and such is still an exploit. the question is not weither the players want it left in but rather was it something the dev team had in mind for you to beable to orginally do. If it was, then yes, its a movemnt 'skill' that you'd have to just take time to figure out how to do it, but if not, then it should be removed. I also belive that mp_blockscripts should be included. Scripts hit more buttons that for your skill level you are capable of doing, thats not skill, thats nub-ish, take the time to use fast switch and fire your pistol your self, not hit 'c' and have it fast switch, empty your pistol in less than a second, and fast switch back to your lmg for you <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Bunnyhopping (nowadays) is as much of an exploit as rocket jumping is. It was once considered an exploit, but it is now widely accepted and integrated into gameplay (both bhopping and RJing). And lol at your scripts comment.
As I have seen others post this, I really don't think NS:S should incorporate too many new features.
Just playing the game in the Source environment is going to be slick as hell.
If you really want to make changes, tweak the game to make things more balanced, fix exploits, and the hitboxes too.
I honestly don't think outdoor maps would fit into the NS universe. I think vehicles would be hard to balance out. With the Source engine being able to handle larger maps though, other forms of transportation should be considered. Maybe something like modifying the phase system where you have to build relay stations to extend the range of phase capability. (Aliens could of course chomp the stations). Something similar for aliens might be helpful--like real movement chambers that actually take you from one chamber to another.
One thing for aliens I have thought of would be expanding hive sight to include different colors/patterns for different objects. Right now it is good, but marking movement chambers would be beneficial.
I also don't think the rating system would be very effective. People would play just for points and games would just be crappy. Isn't this what combat is for and not teamplay (AKA regular NS)?
That's my two cents. (Maybe 4 cents being a constellation member?)
<!--QuoteBegin-JmmsbndZeroZeroSeven+May 7 2005, 03:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JmmsbndZeroZeroSeven @ May 7 2005, 03:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 1. I disagree with your statement. Movement techniques add more skill to the game and make it more fun to play. At the very least, it gives you something to do, rather than walking in a straight line. The game is already balanced with these movement features integrated, and not supporting them would make game balance another headache. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> IMHO movement techniques are nessicary, but they don't have to be the old gross overaccessable quake ones. There is lots of room for new movement techniques that don't lock you into bizzare arching flight paths that really just look stupid anyways.
For the record, I would like to see the marine movement code preserved almost compleatly, as it is currently reasonably realistic (for a sci fi deathmatch game that is), maby with the removal of wall walking...
For the aliens I think we should keep HL2DM style movement code (strafe jumping becomes the popular movement trick) combined with some kind of speed boost trick (maby a speed boost on reflect jumping off of walls? lots of options anyways) and a hardcore beefed up wiggle walk system. gorges onos and fades no longer have to bounce along like rabbits in order to get a good speed boost, while at the same time skulks aren't sailing rediculous arches all around the map, and poor skill skulks can still compensate by wiggle walking if need be.
Attracting new players, and keeping the old is what we should be trying to accomplish with this game. You can achieve the best of both worlds by simply adding to what is already given to us. I honestly think that without the physics, movement, and way the game feels now, I wouldn't play it. NS2, without current physics, won't be NS, period. That's all there is to say. It will just be any other Half-Life 2 mod, with a new name. The physics, speed, and broad capabilities of the player make the game what it is. The only thing that ever truly held it back was a lack of a sufficient Playtest and Developer program, as much as one would hate to admit.
As for: <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->take the time to use fast switch and fire your pistol your self, not hit 'c' and have it fast switch, empty your pistol in less than a second, and fast switch back to your lmg for you<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ha.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->For the record, I would like to see the marine movement code preserved almost compleatly, as it is currently reasonably realistic (for a sci fi deathmatch game that is), maby with the removal of wall walking...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sure, why not. Wallwalking is an exploit, but so is glide jumping, which I believe should stay. Like stated, it's given NS the feel it has, and differentiates the good players from the bad, in more than one case.
Oh and Flayra himself did announce bunnyhopping as, not an exploit, but part of the game, a good 2 years ago. Sorry all you anti-bhop guys =\.
<!--QuoteBegin-the hole+May 7 2005, 04:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (the hole @ May 7 2005, 04:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Oh and Flayra himself did announce bunnyhopping as, not an exploit, but part of the game, a good 2 years ago. Sorry all you anti-bhop guys =\. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> QFT
Personally, I am really against vehicles, without an overhaul of the game design. Maybe for NS2, but not NS:S.
As much as they would be, the current gamestyle would not be conductive to them. If you are a marine, and miss the ride, then you would be sitting around whining to be picked up, since walking would be so slow. NS is more about the cramped halls quick battles, always being able to maybe respawn and dive back into the fray, not bouncing aliong massive maps waiting to find a battle in your buggy with some dude who can't drive.
i agree that vehicles might not fit in ns:s, but i still think out door maps could be done well, im not even an experienced mapper but my out door map is looking good, imagine what the offical mappers could come up with <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Reeke+May 7 2005, 03:05 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Reeke @ May 7 2005, 03:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i agree that vehicles might not fit in ns:s, but i still think out door maps could be done well, im not even an experienced mapper but my out door map is looking good, imagine what the offical mappers could come up with <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It looks good, but how balanced would it be with melee aliens fighting ranged marines?
that can be worked around in the map design, out door maps dont have to be completly open <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
also with maybe a new tech here and there, it could make things interesting for out door maps. rines could have the ability to shoot at them from range, but fades/lerks will be able to go nuts because of the movement freedom
Comments
As for the others, most of them seem like good ideas, provided this doesn't turn into a feature creep. What exactly would integrated clan support involve?
New weapons (sniper rifle, flamethrower, etc.)
Training level
New marine tech (new structures or upgrades)
New alien chamber
New alien
Alternate fire for all weapons/abilities <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Flayra, I have a request. All of the above, it must be added!
Second of all, all the maps could use some "lubrication". Give SaltzBad original credit for this. If aliens would get stuck on small invisible clips less, and perhaps wouldn't run into damn invisible clips at the top of most ramps, etc (you get my point), they would be a lot more fun and a lot easier to play.
Sixth, a quake-style jumping system (where a jump command is queue'd instead of gone to waste if the jump key is hit and the player has not yet hit the ground.) would be nice, and would help new players learn to bunnyhop more easily.
Seventh, no vehicles/large outdoor areas, please.
Tenth, a faster dev cycle. I know this is being worked on already, but it would be almost a necessity. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. I disagree, I think that the new version should not include these artifacts from an old engine. The game should not rely on glitches in the engine. With a new engine, the game could be balanced without bunnyhopping, glide jumping, etc
2. The new engine should help in this area since mappers won't be hitting all the limits of the engine.
6. I think the game should be balanced without old engine bugs such as bunnyhopping therefore this wouldn't be needed.
7. I agree, I don't think vehicals fit the setting of NS
10. As soon as you can start financing the development of NS:S, then you can have a say on a faster development cycle.
Removing bhop and such would make the game too slow and boring for me. I guess people who can't do it would be pleased to see this evil evil exploit gone though.
IF we remove bunnyhopping, it is imperative to find a replacement for the aliens. You can say "learn to ambush" as much as you want, but bunnyhopping is an essential skill, especially for ambushes, and to run away. If we can have a replacement that doesn't need as much "skill" it would be perfect, for both ease of use, and for the least experienced of us as well.
Look <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=1739&hl=bunny&view=findpost&p=21730' target='_blank'>here</a> and
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=81373&st=135#entry1252682' target='_blank'>here</a>.
And for mp_blockscripts : meh. Nothing is likely to change in this awesome community, so I guess blockscripts will keep making people happy, knowing that the script lamers won't be able to replace skill with lines that play the game for them.
The only problem, we can only choose from one.
If you break it down, NS is more of a indoor game, and in my mind, should stay that way. Having vehicles and such (excluding elevators, gravity rifts, portals and a space elevator?) would defeat the purpose of indoor play.
A new alien? That would be cool, thats been discussed a lot. In my opinion, all the bases are covered now.. but seeing new and exciting stuff would be cool.
In my mind, there should be more support between the players of the community and the actual players. So the people who post here, who take part in competitive, who do stuff like nslearn or nsradio.. and the people who are just regular players, who never do much.
So clan support, which we have a good amount of and its starting to grow again with 3.0 final, would be my best bet. RSS Feeds of members/stats and such, real time scores, real time player analysis and such would be really cool.
New marine tech would be very cool too, because in my mind theres still a lot of dynamic stuff that could happen.
You know hivesight? Why not make it something like that one game, Alien Swarm, has it. Hivesight for aliens.. you get to see what your fellow teammates have.. their health, name and ammo of current gun. But only after an upgrade, called like "Status Transponder" or something.. There are so many avenues for this game.. but you have to keep one thing in mind, you can't change the game too much.. or it won't be the NS we all know and love.
I could think of more, if I had time.. trying to work right now though :o
IF we remove bunnyhopping, it is imperative to find a replacement for the aliens. You can say "learn to ambush" as much as you want, but bunnyhopping is an essential skill, especially for ambushes, and to run away. If we can have a replacement that doesn't need as much "skill" it would be perfect, for both ease of use, and for the least experienced of us as well. "
replacement huh? how about leap.. isn't that the whole idea of it? oh wait... aliens dont need to use leap anymore because they can pretty much gain the same amount of speed by bhoping without using adren or wasting time changing weapons.
First and foremost, I <b>implore</b> you to port over the current physics (most of it, at least). NS wouldn't be NS without it's wide variety of movement options (bunnyhopping, glide jumping, etc). See points five and six.
Second of all, all the maps could use some "lubrication". Give SaltzBad original credit for this. If aliens would get stuck on small invisible clips less, and perhaps wouldn't run into damn invisible clips at the top of most ramps, etc (you get my point), they would be a lot more fun and a lot easier to play.
Third of all, some new marine/alien tech would be <b>nice</b>, but not really a top priority.
Fourth, some type of integrated clan features would be nice.
Fifth, mp_blockscripts <b>should not be included</b>.
Sixth, a quake-style jumping system (where a jump command is queue'd instead of gone to waste if the jump key is hit and the player has not yet hit the ground.) would be nice, and would help new players learn to bunnyhop more easily.
Seventh, no vehicles/large outdoor areas, please.
Eight, random shotgun spread and the removal of the "shotgun bug" would be very ideal (excuse the slight off-topicness).
Ninth, it would be ideal if the game could be a little more linear. Perhaps something even as radical as a "fourth hive" could help achieve this. Basically, the game is much too alien sided when they get 2 hives. Keep it as much skill-oriented as possible.
Tenth, a faster dev cycle. I know this is being worked on already, but it would be almost a necessity.
Eleventh, VAC[2] support and steam mygames integration. Once the latter is completed, NS will do anything from grow to explode in popularity.
That is all I can think of at the moment, I will edit this post or make a new reply if I think of anything else.
- exi . Jmms
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^
Unfortunately, as much as I don't want to admit it, he's right. As for playing for another of the top clans, we, and many others will feel the same way as this post is.
The current physics are a must, the game wouldn't be the game if it weren't for the way the physics are now. HL2's current movement is much too slow for NS to be NS, so it is a must.
Marine and alien tech, obviously a must.
blockscripts is retarded, forlorn said it best with.
"Where Blizzard adds a macro editor to World of Warcraft, Unknown Worlds adds mp_blockscripts to NS."
Quake style jumping isn't really a necessity, I don't think it would be worth the time to work on IMO.
No vehicles, large scale maps wouldn't be too bad though, seeing as there are phase, and maybe something similar could be implemented for aliens.
Like said earlier, a fast and smart developer team is an absolute must. Your favorite friends probably won't help you in the long run Charlie. Pick dedicated, loyal people to help you progress this game to it's maximum potential, and nothing less.
VAC2 needs no comment, it's a must.
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>Vehicles & Outdoor Maps(My vote): I voted for this one, though more for the 'OMG FUN' aspect, rather than balance and actual gameplay... However, this wouldn't be too bad. Outdoor maps could be properly implemented, allowing for movement of large-scale groups/units, but have significant amounts of cover, as well as a height limit(laser grid, dome, or lack of breathability). The outdoor maps have the potential to be massive battles or classic style play, all in the sizing, and vehicles would enhance this. There could be varying sizes in them, ranging from a previously suggested Goliath style mech walker, to a hoverbike, or a smaller robot controlled remotely and with welding capabilities or something. There assuredly should be a very restricted range of them, but as long as they're all very distinct, it should tie very well into the theme of NS.
New Weapons(Would be my fourth pick): These'd rock, since there are only four primary weapons(LMG, SG, HMG, and GL), one secondary(Handgun), and three tertiary weapons(Knife, Welder, and Grenade). Something like a flamethrower would add more strategy to the game, especially if it had to be researched farther into the game. However, as I've said above, keep the available weapons small in number, or else it'll turn into CS with Aliens. Perhaps just one or two more, like the flamethrower, an improved handgun, or some sort of long range artillery style gun(not a sniper, could be rockets or a shell).
Training Level(Fifth pick): I don't know about you, but I see a lot of instances where someone can ruin the fun by not knowing what they're doing. For example, if someone gets an HA and GL without really knowing, and they just try to rambo, they waste the res that could've gone to a productive player doing something to benefit their team. As for Aliens, if a new person just Skulks the entire game, they'll create a lot of wait time for respawn early on, give Marines extra res, and just drag down the resources other players could get and use, because they don't understand how the game works. If there was a training map, they could learn the basics neccesary to play, and it'd be much better than just telling them to play combat, which IMO does little to prepare for standard, other than getting them information on how to attack.
New Marine Tech(Sixth pick): If new weapons or vehicles are added, these are a must. Just a few extra advanced buildings though, perhaps a vehicle nanoassembler, a building made specifically for advanced weapons, rather than the advanced armory, or a 'trap' for smaller Aliens that would entrap them in massively powerful electromagnets and send an alarm(maybe deal slight damage, fire once, and last only a few seconds?).
New Alien Chamber(Third pick): If the Marines are to get new stuff, so would the Aliens. Figuring out a new chamber and whether or not to give it its own line of upgrades is tough, but it's not impossible. Maybe a chamber that harnesses nanites to create abilities to 'anti-weld' certain things(Disintegrate), lower the effectiveness of or possibly damage certain Marine structures in the direct area of the Alien(Hack), and to give static to Marines, causing that unit to show up poorly, if at all, on motion tracking and scans(only for commander view), and to cause strange things to happen to the HUDs of Marines near it(Static). I think that'd be cool... >_>
New Alien(Second pick): I'd say only one more, two only if it really seems like it's needed for balanced. To me, Aliens seem to need something that can divert damage, a support creature that isn't as frail as a Gorge, but not quite a Lerk. Some abilities like a flashbang style effect or burrowing would be nice, as well as something along the lines of channeling their energy to makes bullets slow down and move towards the metal floors/walls slightly, so that they hit Aliens less. No clue what would be good for a seventh Alien....
Alternate Fire(Don't care): Personally, I think the menu is a perfect use for right click. If some weapons were to be assigned an extra mode, I'd prefer a bound key.
Clan & Ranking(Wouldn't vote on it): Eh. This matters a lot to some people, but the rest care little, from what I've seen.</span>
I can't limit myself to just being a number in the poll. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Second of all, all the maps could use some "lubrication". Give SaltzBad original credit for this. If aliens would get stuck on small invisible clips less, and perhaps wouldn't run into damn invisible clips at the top of most ramps, etc (you get my point), they would be a lot more fun and a lot easier to play.
Sixth, a quake-style jumping system (where a jump command is queue'd instead of gone to waste if the jump key is hit and the player has not yet hit the ground.) would be nice, and would help new players learn to bunnyhop more easily.
Seventh, no vehicles/large outdoor areas, please.
Tenth, a faster dev cycle. I know this is being worked on already, but it would be almost a necessity. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. I disagree, I think that the new version should not include these artifacts from an old engine. The game should not rely on glitches in the engine. With a new engine, the game could be balanced without bunnyhopping, glide jumping, etc
2. The new engine should help in this area since mappers won't be hitting all the limits of the engine.
6. I think the game should be balanced without old engine bugs such as bunnyhopping therefore this wouldn't be needed.
7. I agree, I don't think vehicals fit the setting of NS
10. As soon as you can start financing the development of NS:S, then you can have a say on a faster development cycle. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. I disagree with your statement. Movement techniques add more skill to the game and make it more fun to play. At the very least, it gives you something to do, rather than walking in a straight line. The game is already balanced with these movement features integrated, and not supporting them would make game balance another headache.
2. N/A
6. N/A
7. N/A
10. No.
Bunnyhopping (nowadays) is as much of an exploit as rocket jumping is. It was once considered an exploit, but it is now widely accepted and integrated into gameplay (both bhopping and RJing). And lol at your scripts comment.
Just playing the game in the Source environment is going to be slick as hell.
If you really want to make changes, tweak the game to make things more balanced, fix exploits, and the hitboxes too.
I honestly don't think outdoor maps would fit into the NS universe. I think vehicles would be hard to balance out. With the Source engine being able to handle larger maps though, other forms of transportation should be considered. Maybe something like modifying the phase system where you have to build relay stations to extend the range of phase capability. (Aliens could of course chomp the stations). Something similar for aliens might be helpful--like real movement chambers that actually take you from one chamber to another.
One thing for aliens I have thought of would be expanding hive sight to include different colors/patterns for different objects. Right now it is good, but marking movement chambers would be beneficial.
I also don't think the rating system would be very effective. People would play just for points and games would just be crappy. Isn't this what combat is for and not teamplay (AKA regular NS)?
That's my two cents. (Maybe 4 cents being a constellation member?)
IMHO movement techniques are nessicary, but they don't have to be the old gross overaccessable quake ones. There is lots of room for new movement techniques that don't lock you into bizzare arching flight paths that really just look stupid anyways.
For the record, I would like to see the marine movement code preserved almost compleatly, as it is currently reasonably realistic (for a sci fi deathmatch game that is), maby with the removal of wall walking...
For the aliens I think we should keep HL2DM style movement code (strafe jumping becomes the popular movement trick) combined with some kind of speed boost trick (maby a speed boost on reflect jumping off of walls? lots of options anyways) and a hardcore beefed up wiggle walk system. gorges onos and fades no longer have to bounce along like rabbits in order to get a good speed boost, while at the same time skulks aren't sailing rediculous arches all around the map, and poor skill skulks can still compensate by wiggle walking if need be.
As for:
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Ha.
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Sure, why not. Wallwalking is an exploit, but so is glide jumping, which I believe should stay. Like stated, it's given NS the feel it has, and differentiates the good players from the bad, in more than one case.
Oh and Flayra himself did announce bunnyhopping as, not an exploit, but part of the game, a good 2 years ago. Sorry all you anti-bhop guys =\.
QFT
Bhoppers=1 Anti-Bhoppers=0
Winnar!
As much as they would be, the current gamestyle would not be conductive to them. If you are a marine, and miss the ride, then you would be sitting around whining to be picked up, since walking would be so slow. NS is more about the cramped halls quick battles, always being able to maybe respawn and dive back into the fray, not bouncing aliong massive maps waiting to find a battle in your buggy with some dude who can't drive.
It looks good, but how balanced would it be with melee aliens fighting ranged marines?
also with maybe a new tech here and there, it could make things interesting for out door maps. rines could have the ability to shoot at them from range, but fades/lerks will be able to go nuts because of the movement freedom