Tuition Fees For Higher Education
Crispy
Jaded GD Join Date: 2004-08-22 Member: 30793Members, Constellation
Jaded GD Join Date: 2004-08-22 Member: 30793Members, Constellation
in Discussions
<div class="IPBDescription">UK / Germany / USA / etc.</div> Tuition fees, I do not think they should be abolished. By this I mean the idea of paying a sum to cover your tuition during your degree course at a University or equivalent.
University life in the UK should mean having to apply yourself to your studies while also reaping the benefits of a new adult experience that you can share with people from many different backgrounds. You need to be able to learn research and information gathering techniques, teamwork, presentation skills, analytical skills, how to put forward an objective argument and its supporting arguments from other sources, meet new people, form and understand the nature of different inter-personal relationships, manage your finances...
Huh? Wait a minute there.
F I N A N C E S ?
Yes, you will learn how to balance you accounts, because when you get to University, you're an adult, and adults make adult decisions. The fact of the matter is, if all tuition fees were abolished, Universities would not be a choice for the academic, but everyone who could equal the entry requirements set by the University.
<i>Let us just take a second to think about what might happen if Universities were free (Remember: we can't compare them to the days of student grants, because there are a hell of a lot more people going to University right now).</i>
There is now have no money to pay the University Teaching staff, University Department staff, University Accomodation staff, University Application staff, University property caretakers, University Examination staff and the list gets longer. They need cash and quick and there are two options:
- Government subsidisation (<b>most likely:</b> higher taxes could mean people who don't even intend on going to University get charged for the priviledge <b>or very unlikely:</b> the Government makes cuts in... well somewhere.
- Universities secure advanced loans from banks and building societies, putting the country into <b>even worse debt</b>
- Universities turn to the big corporations for money, selling off sections of land to Fast Food chains, banks, clothes shops or whoever is willing to pay a high price for premium land with a guaranteed student demographic to market to. Bear in mind that this is already happening, take Birmingham campus' for example. It already has its own set of <i>golden arches</i> a few hundred yards from it's university library! Imagine University's being paid to sell and advertise a certain brand of beer in the student union. Imagine WHSmith as your University's official stationers. <b>Imagine losing the current situation</b>, where student bars and stationers offer much cheaper 'student' rates as a result of being non profit-making organisations.
One of the major drawbacks of having to make ends meet, would be Universities having to be very specific on which courses they can afford to offer. Many of the more expensive courses would either be prioritised or abolished. While this does have it's advantages (Universities concentrating efforts on a selected few subjects and offering better teaching on this basis), the face of University life would change forever. One of the greatest things about being at University is the amount of diversity, brought in part by students coming from all over the country, but also from the fact that they are mostly studying completely different subjects. I can tell you, this is a truly wholsome experience, and not one to be traded in <b>purely for the sake of money</b>.
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I'll stop here to mention Germany, another European country with an entirely different system. Germany's examination system is not a mockery. Germany does not have a 40% pass rate for the first year of University which doesn't even go towards your degree result. The German's are a little more sensible when it comes to education, and as a result their Universities have people from all over the country, nay the world fighting for their spaces.
If we currently had the proud academic situation that the Germans do, then perhaps we could justify subsidising tuition fees, but before we have reached that point it would be a rash decision to do so.
University life in the UK should mean having to apply yourself to your studies while also reaping the benefits of a new adult experience that you can share with people from many different backgrounds. You need to be able to learn research and information gathering techniques, teamwork, presentation skills, analytical skills, how to put forward an objective argument and its supporting arguments from other sources, meet new people, form and understand the nature of different inter-personal relationships, manage your finances...
Huh? Wait a minute there.
F I N A N C E S ?
Yes, you will learn how to balance you accounts, because when you get to University, you're an adult, and adults make adult decisions. The fact of the matter is, if all tuition fees were abolished, Universities would not be a choice for the academic, but everyone who could equal the entry requirements set by the University.
<i>Let us just take a second to think about what might happen if Universities were free (Remember: we can't compare them to the days of student grants, because there are a hell of a lot more people going to University right now).</i>
There is now have no money to pay the University Teaching staff, University Department staff, University Accomodation staff, University Application staff, University property caretakers, University Examination staff and the list gets longer. They need cash and quick and there are two options:
- Government subsidisation (<b>most likely:</b> higher taxes could mean people who don't even intend on going to University get charged for the priviledge <b>or very unlikely:</b> the Government makes cuts in... well somewhere.
- Universities secure advanced loans from banks and building societies, putting the country into <b>even worse debt</b>
- Universities turn to the big corporations for money, selling off sections of land to Fast Food chains, banks, clothes shops or whoever is willing to pay a high price for premium land with a guaranteed student demographic to market to. Bear in mind that this is already happening, take Birmingham campus' for example. It already has its own set of <i>golden arches</i> a few hundred yards from it's university library! Imagine University's being paid to sell and advertise a certain brand of beer in the student union. Imagine WHSmith as your University's official stationers. <b>Imagine losing the current situation</b>, where student bars and stationers offer much cheaper 'student' rates as a result of being non profit-making organisations.
One of the major drawbacks of having to make ends meet, would be Universities having to be very specific on which courses they can afford to offer. Many of the more expensive courses would either be prioritised or abolished. While this does have it's advantages (Universities concentrating efforts on a selected few subjects and offering better teaching on this basis), the face of University life would change forever. One of the greatest things about being at University is the amount of diversity, brought in part by students coming from all over the country, but also from the fact that they are mostly studying completely different subjects. I can tell you, this is a truly wholsome experience, and not one to be traded in <b>purely for the sake of money</b>.
---
I'll stop here to mention Germany, another European country with an entirely different system. Germany's examination system is not a mockery. Germany does not have a 40% pass rate for the first year of University which doesn't even go towards your degree result. The German's are a little more sensible when it comes to education, and as a result their Universities have people from all over the country, nay the world fighting for their spaces.
If we currently had the proud academic situation that the Germans do, then perhaps we could justify subsidising tuition fees, but before we have reached that point it would be a rash decision to do so.
Comments
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The fact of the matter is, if all tuition fees were abolished, Universities would not be a choice for the academic, but everyone who could equal the entry requirements set by the University.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm wondering what you mean by this statement. Is it bad that anyone who can meet the entry requirements would be able to enter college?
However... if someone could explain why my tuition has gone up 100% in the last four years... (UW-Stout, Wisconsin USA) i would hug you. Did books double in value since 2000? have teachers suddenly started to rake in the cash? (the cash they deserve mind you) Did my school add computers that exist in a non-visable spectrum?
I have to take a few years off of school to save up for the last year of school (i hate debt... i never ever ever want to pay for money i don't have). I think the year away from school will do me good though, maybe I'll take it more seriously.
<!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Is your University expanding? Have they built new accomodation blocks or departmental buildings, opened new departments or created new degree types? If that is the case it may be that they simply need to cover their overheads.
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<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't think the abolishment of tuition fees is necessarily the right thing to do. I think making education accessible and affordable to everyone is what we should be striving towards. Education is almost the only way that societies can have social mobility. If the poor can't afford higher education, then they're consigned to a life of poverty.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm not proposing that poor people don't go to University. Many of the Universities in this country (UK) offer scholarships or grants to students from poor backgrounds. I think this should still be the case but only for those who have thought long and hard about undertaking a University degree. I also am not against getting a student grant from your Local Education Authority (LEA). They currently provide 'means tested' grants for all students to pay in part for their tuition fees. In my first year my LEA paid for £800 of £1100 of my student fees, because of my domestic situation.
What I will say is that those who really aren't cut out for a University degree should have to pay for wasting our Universities' time.
"We wouldn't want this because then how would we keep the kids who are poor or in poverty working at the fast food places?"
The US has both private and public universities. The private ones usually have an endowment and higher tuition fees than the public ones. Some of the ones with larger endowments (e.g. Harvard) could afford to abolish tuition fees, but instead give out a very large number of need based and academic scholarships.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't think the abolishment of tuition fees is necessarily the right thing to do. I think making education accessible and affordable to everyone is what we should be striving towards. Education is almost the only way that societies can have social mobility. If the poor can't afford higher education, then they're consigned to a life of poverty.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm not proposing that poor people don't go to University. Many of the Universities in this country (UK) offer scholarships or grants to students from poor backgrounds. I think this should still be the case but only for those who have thought long and hard about undertaking a University degree. I also am not against getting a student grant from your Local Education Authority (LEA). They currently provide 'means tested' grants for all students to pay in part for their tuition fees. In my first year my LEA paid for £800 of £1100 of my student fees, because of my domestic situation.
What I will say is that those who really aren't cut out for a University degree should have to pay for wasting our Universities' time.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I actually agree with you. I was just stating my opinion. If we had a good high school educational system and a 2 year whitecollar college (so secretaries and office workers don't need a 4 year degree to get a job).
I would like to add that this would also encourage the already dropping sciences like Chemistry and Physics to become almost abolished in the UK. Yeah, I'm a biologist myself and it's certainly an extremely sexy field right now (DNA has changed everything we know about life-sciences) but Chemists and Physicists are an integral part of science. Having a free system does seem good, but you have to consider that there just isn't a way to pay for so many different courses without having these fees.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Many of the Universities in this country (UK) offer scholarships or grants to students from poor backgrounds.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree and this should also be applied to students who perform well in things like examinations, regardless of background.
I recently finished my college search ending in all acceptances. I wanted to double degree at Johns Hopkins University and Peabody Conservatory, 2 high class schools, but had no chance of doing so since they offer so few scholarships. I had a choice of going there and having $120,000 of debt when I graduate, or going to University of Maryland College Park, and having a significant amount of money left when I graduate.
As much as I would have loved to go there, there was no chance, and I'm surprised they can fill their classes every year with $44,000 in fees every year.
And the great thing is that despite my parents having enough money to pay for it (probably) we live in an expensive enough neighborhood that contributing that much money for college would have put us below the poverty line. Financial aid for people with less money is a good idea, its just unrealistic that an upper-middle class family can spend $60,000 on one person's education. (way to go FAFSA).
You're given free tuition and in the future, when you get a job, you agree to pay a certain percentage of your earnings to the college for a predetermined set of time or amount. Book fees and room and board are stilll your responsibility.
But that's after you go through the courts (as you would if you would declare bankruptcy) and get a writ from a judge saying that you're eligible for that.
But I'm not sure how much that would hurt the private colleges. In the US, if you look hard enough (and if you're smart enough), you can usually cover a good portion of your college costs via government grants and private scholarships.
Abolish tuition or tuition fees? D:
Not sure where to give you a precise link, but this occurs all the time even here in New Zealand. Unfortunately, it's just a reality that people now have to accept. Particularly some degrees with poor job prospects, which are becoming things you essentially just dump debt on yourself with little prospect of paying it off. Very few people I know of now choose to take subjects solely for interest, like doing some history with their science degrees or similar.
Which I think is a shame.
The Lib Dems promised to bring back student grants in their <a href='http://mobular.onlinedm.com/libdems/manifesto/england/' target='_blank'>manifesto</a>.
Abolish tuition or tuition fees? D:
Not sure where to give you a precise link, but this occurs all the time even here in New Zealand. Unfortunately, it's just a reality that people now have to accept. Particularly some degrees with poor job prospects, which are becoming things you essentially just dump debt on yourself with little prospect of paying it off. Very few people I know of now choose to take subjects solely for interest, like doing some history with their science degrees or similar.
Which I think is a shame. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Quite true. I have intrests in Philosophy more than Chemistry, (Even though I still enjoy Chem, like, a lot) but I'm double majoring so I can make sure I'll be able to pay the bills.