Ns_sekhmet
Toothy
ir-regard-less Join Date: 2003-02-12 Member: 13447Members, Constellation
ir-regard-less Join Date: 2003-02-12 Member: 13447Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">can you pronounce it?</div> Hi chaps,
Ns_sekhmet is a map that I created, and co-designed by [t]turin. I only recently did this 'final' compile after players reported certain particle issues which have since been fixed.
I ask only two things of you:
If you want to give feedback, please play the map, don't comment purely on the screenshots since they're a) dark thanks to jpg/whatever, and b) probably biased.
Please only give feedback related to stuck spots/missing textures/bugs. Not design, balance, or general 'textures/lighting' advice which is generally based on opinion and thus impossible to please everyone.
New Link to zip: <a href='http://www.toothy.jolt.co.uk/ns_sekhmet_v601.zip' target='_blank'>here</a>
Screenshots:
<img src='http://www.toothy.jolt.co.uk/ns_sekhmet_1.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://www.toothy.jolt.co.uk/ns_sekhmet_2.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://www.toothy.jolt.co.uk/ns_sekhmet_3.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://www.toothy.jolt.co.uk/ns_sekhmet_4.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://www.toothy.jolt.co.uk/ns_sekhmet_5.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://www.toothy.jolt.co.uk/ns_sekhmet_6.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://www.toothy.jolt.co.uk/ns_sekhmet_7.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://www.toothy.jolt.co.uk/ns_sekhmet_8.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://www.toothy.jolt.co.uk/ns_sekhmet_9.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://www.toothy.jolt.co.uk/ns_sekhmet_10.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://www.toothy.jolt.co.uk/ns_sekhmet_11.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://www.toothy.jolt.co.uk/ns_sekhmet_12.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://www.toothy.jolt.co.uk/ns_sekhmet_13.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Thanks!
Ns_sekhmet is a map that I created, and co-designed by [t]turin. I only recently did this 'final' compile after players reported certain particle issues which have since been fixed.
I ask only two things of you:
If you want to give feedback, please play the map, don't comment purely on the screenshots since they're a) dark thanks to jpg/whatever, and b) probably biased.
Please only give feedback related to stuck spots/missing textures/bugs. Not design, balance, or general 'textures/lighting' advice which is generally based on opinion and thus impossible to please everyone.
New Link to zip: <a href='http://www.toothy.jolt.co.uk/ns_sekhmet_v601.zip' target='_blank'>here</a>
Screenshots:
<img src='http://www.toothy.jolt.co.uk/ns_sekhmet_1.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://www.toothy.jolt.co.uk/ns_sekhmet_2.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://www.toothy.jolt.co.uk/ns_sekhmet_3.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://www.toothy.jolt.co.uk/ns_sekhmet_4.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://www.toothy.jolt.co.uk/ns_sekhmet_5.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://www.toothy.jolt.co.uk/ns_sekhmet_6.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://www.toothy.jolt.co.uk/ns_sekhmet_7.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://www.toothy.jolt.co.uk/ns_sekhmet_8.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://www.toothy.jolt.co.uk/ns_sekhmet_9.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://www.toothy.jolt.co.uk/ns_sekhmet_10.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://www.toothy.jolt.co.uk/ns_sekhmet_11.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://www.toothy.jolt.co.uk/ns_sekhmet_12.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://www.toothy.jolt.co.uk/ns_sekhmet_13.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Thanks!
Comments
However If that is all the feedback you want then I will not be replying with feedback.
I'm not gonna go around the map checking if every texture is aligned properly, or try every possible route,jump into every crack and crevice to see if I come across a stuck spot.
BUT, if you, like most other mappers around here, would like to improve your mapping skills and knowledg of, Then you should ask for feedback on all the things you requested that you did not want feedback on.
Also im puzzled as to why you would post 13 screenshots if you dont want our opinion on them?? Most people will download the map based mostly on what the screenshots are like. So therefore if your design and lighting is bad then you would not get alot of downloads, again I dont know why you dont want feedback on these things.
I'm gonna check this map out because "judging" by the screenshots it looks alright._
Unlike toothy, I'd like whatever feedback you feel is appropriate for this map.
So go to it folks!
Of course I'm interested in improving my mapping skills, but generally the kind of advice given on this forum revolves around personal opinions, with everyone giving contradictive advice. 5 people will say 'too dark', 5 people will say 'too light'.
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Hows that for feedback? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Of course I'm interested in improving my mapping skills, but generally the kind of advice given on this forum revolves around personal opinions, with everyone giving contradictive advice. 5 people will say 'too dark', 5 people will say 'too light'. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
well isn't that better than no feedback at all?
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Hows that for feedback? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
sarcasm right?
this map looks great from the screenies, but im a bit busy atm with a stargate map im working on, so i cant run around in it :/
havent played it yet though.
but believe it or not: screenshots tell a lot about a map. and they tell a lot about its creator <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
- I've seen this map before! I remember the outside view from the post your screenies thread, GJ on getting it to a playable state.
- Good idea on showing the res nodes as the screenshots as they're the backbone of ns_maps. They seem to show a good mix, with open Marine areas and nice Skulky hiding spots. I can't tell much from the shots but do make sure you have safe spots for Aliens to Gorge that aren't too far from the nodes.
- The double-sided CC is a novel idea, but I'm skeptical as to how it might work out as it might make MS that much harder to defend. If you find that Aliens are taking it down far too easily then I'd suggest putting in a glass panel in front of the rail.
- The last Hive screeny gives me the impression that the 'rines will be able to setup camp at the entrance and shoot from there (which looks like a fair distance), playtesting may confirm the need for a visblocker in there.
---
It's fair enough to ignore crits on lighting (for obvious reasons) and your general style but you will find valuable information from some individuals (not always the same individuals) that will greatly improve your map. Pick and choose your way through the comments and try to ignore any flame-baiting.
several palces is over than thousand in the r_speeds some areas go at 1100 and after that 2 pillar hallways have astuck point at floor.
I like your texture usage.
The outside area is a nice touch.
I found the map a tad bright tho. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
This is actually a nice map, I hope things go well for you with this one.
I didnt get much time to have a good look at it, but when i get the time i'll be sure to do so._
Silent H!!!!!!!!
I'm downloading now, will give it a run around!
EDIT:
Here is some feedback at a first glance and run around.
Marine Spawn - New glass texture, create a blue environmental lighting texture to go with the skymap. Will also add a nice bit of lighting. Appears to be no overlays on the monitors and the wall-light, rest of the map doesn't appear to have any either, you need them!
Walls, weird architecture? For me the main wall style does not match the texture nor look too nice.
<!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->
|
\
|
/
|
|<!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
Try some harsher lighting in places like the hive too, they also seem slightly brighter than alot of hives I've seen in maps.
New water texture wouldn't be a bad addition either.
I know how hard it is creating a NS map myself, and how much harder it is to find a purpose for rooms, hallways and how to interlink it. However I think there is alot of empty spaces where you could fill up with machinery, pipes or something else to give the area a purpose other than all the computers I am seeing in near empty areas.
The outside area could do with being smaller and some nicer vertex manipulation on both floor and cliff to look a bit more realistic. Also light up that pad with bright red lights around it or something, make it stand out.
The ambient sound in the marine spawn is awesome <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Good job toothy. Sorry for the comments in a random order, it's looking good and I hope submission goes well.
ok there we goes:
stuck point:
<a href='http://img283.echo.cx/my.php?image=nssekhmetv60000245xo.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img283.echo.cx/img283/7585/nssekhmetv60000245xo.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
i stuck coming from here:
<a href='http://img283.echo.cx/my.php?image=nssekhmetv60000024bt.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img283.echo.cx/img283/6108/nssekhmetv60000024bt.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
high r_speeds lvls 1100 at ms:
<a href='http://img283.echo.cx/my.php?image=nssekhmetv60000010gc.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img283.echo.cx/img283/51/nssekhmetv60000010gc.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
high r_speeds 1268 at athena walkway
<a href='http://img283.echo.cx/my.php?image=nssekhmetv60000055id.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img283.echo.cx/img283/743/nssekhmetv60000055id.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
high r_speeds 1064-1092 at not classified hallway near logo.
<a href='http://img283.echo.cx/my.php?image=nssekhmetv60000061pn.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img283.echo.cx/img283/1443/nssekhmetv60000061pn.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a><a href='http://img283.echo.cx/my.php?image=nssekhmetv60000083yb.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img283.echo.cx/img283/2310/nssekhmetv60000083yb.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
high r_speeds 1136 at inner sanctum
<a href='http://img283.echo.cx/my.php?image=nssekhmetv60000103zz.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img283.echo.cx/img283/9661/nssekhmetv60000103zz.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
high r_speeds 971 at andromeda anex
<a href='http://img267.echo.cx/my.php?image=nssekhmetv60000117wm.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img267.echo.cx/img267/1127/nssekhmetv60000117wm.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
high r_speeds 989-1035 at treatmeant acess omikron
<a href='http://img267.echo.cx/my.php?image=nssekhmetv60000275iu.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img267.echo.cx/img267/6404/nssekhmetv60000275iu.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
medium r_speeds 866 at upper infirmary
<a href='http://img267.echo.cx/my.php?image=nssekhmetv60000169yc.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img267.echo.cx/img267/5867/nssekhmetv60000169yc.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
the minimap doesnt cover this place in his charts.
<a href='http://img283.echo.cx/my.php?image=nssekhmetv60000044ub.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img283.echo.cx/img283/4662/nssekhmetv60000044ub.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
gameplay issues:
you could put a glass to prevent fire caping or a grill,grate, a energy field to prevent player camping in near beams machinery; or just remake the room to prevent ppl jumping into beams and machinery
<a href='http://img283.echo.cx/my.php?image=nssekhmetv60000037tk.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img283.echo.cx/img283/4145/nssekhmetv60000037tk.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
the marine can camp fro mthat control room easy the hive and can jump in the near beams and machinery to do a better camping at hive.
the loading bay could have the crane mroe function like going to ceiling door and in the areas where have a cargo box vahe over it a ceiling door to show where the box come.
and the slope textured at loading bay to cargo you could try trim around or the edges in the boton and top.
if need more screenies from the game issues tell me.
well its better than my stargate which is around 866 itself... and if you put a room around it, 1300+ :/
hopefully the r_sppeds can be fixed so it will run smoothe, and possibly be offical :o !
the only good recent map that has become official is ns_altair, we need more good official maps.
[edit] did a nice little play through. Not the most beutiful map ever, but I LOVE the architexture and what it adds to the gameplay.
I'd like to see some more cover for skulks though, as the map seems really marine friendly.
All official maps should be deemed "good". Playtesters tested them, mappers improved them and that is why they are official. I don't know if you mean it but it sounds like you are saying the latest new maps to NS (eon and nexus) are the opposite of "good".
On the note of sekhmet here is a second run around of the map on my own revealing something tiny and something big, the better news first.
Firstly you have square lights giving off circular spot lights, change the texture to something like spot_light.
<img src='http://jdleveldesign.hlgaming.com/images/sekhmet_light.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Secondly the commander r_speeds aren't good at this point in the map, you could probably get away with lowering the commander view height 200-300 to help sort this problem.
<img src='http://jdleveldesign.hlgaming.com/images/sekhmet_comm.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->
|
\
|
/
|
|<!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I disagree compleatly. If these area's look ugly it is the texture that is the problem, not the architextue. That architexture MAKES this map. So many areas are so much more accessable and fun as a marine because of that wall molding. I personally absolutly love that.
I've changed the spotlight texture, and I'm trying to find ways around the r_speed places. A lot of the not-horribly-high ones are in places that I really can't think of ways to change, but I will definitely try lowering the commander view slighty. Water treatment hive is my main concern, I may have to somehow raise that entire area.
As for the high r_speed non-commander places, can anyone suggest any suitable vis blockers?
Edit: Carioca, I couldn't reproduce the stuck spot you pointed out :s
you could try putting the null texture on hidden faces on entities if you havent done that already.
Null all non-visible faces is a definite yes. I can't remember if a null face behind an brush-based entity is a problem or not, but I'd err on the side of caution.
Visblockers:
<b>@v60000103zz.jpg</b> Here you need to start the southern corridor from further out to the west in the southwest corner of the room. If I could upload a pic I would.
<b>@v60000169yc.jpg</b> Decide how much you want people to see from here. Do they need to see the vent(?) exit to the top-right of the picture? If not, you could make the wall thicker and angle the window so that it slants downwards, requiring you to move closer to the window to see what's below. This will mean you see less of the wpolys in the corridor this side of the window but you can keep the view. I'd also recommend that you raise the bottom of the window (also forcing the player to approach the window to look downwards).
<b>@v60000275iu.jpg</b> Less faces on the support and central beam (8 maximum should be fine, the pillars can be 6 or even 4).
<b>@v60000117wm.jpg</b> -Try- changing the frame to a func_wall (it may be better to group smaller sections) and see if the lighting is still OK. If not you'll have to repeat the frame at greater intervals, which would look better in any case in my opinion.
<b>@v60000061pn.jpg</b> Func_wall the Sekhmet 'S' or better still, get a Modeller from these forums to make you a custom model (it's very simple so even a beginner could do it). This wouldn't reduce on wpolys that much though, so I'd be thinking about a doorway with a frame that visblocks the left corridor, instead of the corridor connecting to a room.
<b>@v60000055id.jpg</b> Lower the top edge of the doorframe. Func_wall or reduce faces on those pipes. Maybe think about using less blue lights and spacing them out more. Think about extending the wall to the left a bit to visblock some of that far corridor.
<b>@</b> If those are stairs in the far distance then func6wall them. Also if possible make each step a triangle and not a square-based prism. If the RT is in a room that only connects to the MS then make this room smaller and bring the RT closer. If you put in a wall behind the MS then it will be prone to Ninja Bilebombing but it's already a bilebomb liability so it might be worth thinking about.
Generally high r_speeds mean there is too much detail (mostly this is not the case) or the player can see too much at once. This latter explanation should set alarm bells ringing in your head because of the nature of Alien-Marine confrontation. If a player can see into 3 rooms from a point then the Marine will have a huge advantage. Be aware of where this is happening in your map and if it gives the Marines too much of a potential advantage you need to restructure the area (regardless of wpolys).
There are a few things that I feel may become gameplay issues, though. (The other parts of map playtesting I am not really qualified to discuss.) The map is on the extreme side of small. Most official maps have between 25-35 seconds of walking time between MS and any hive. Sekhmet's hives can all be reached in 20 seconds. Smaller maps minimize or eliminate the primary weakness of marines, which is that they are much slower than the kharaa. Additionally, the map is quite well lit. All hallways, which is primarily where the aliens have the best chance of stopping marine offensives, seem very marine friendly. The center of the map (I'm calling the foyer, the infirmary, Athena walkway, that green hallway, and, more or less Frontal Bay Access) has little to hamper marine dominance. In fact, I see the infirmary as a really prime relocation spot with cheesy-easy access to siege spots on two hives.
There are a few different ways I've thought of balancing it. First off, removing MS a little farther off or making access to their two nearest nodes more difficult (read: time-wasting) may do a lot by itself.
Something that I really like about ns_eclipse is how it roughly divides the map into two sections by constricting the access points between them. You can draw a line from the top of triad to the bottom of station access to the top of south loop and on one side you have marine-controllable wide hallways with well lit entryways and few vents, on the other, you have many vents, dark, obstructed hallways and resource nodes that are sunken, protected, and-or surrounded by lots of geometry (read: places for skulks to hide). You can do the same thing with sekhmet. I can see either splitting the map roughly in half, like eclipse, through foyer, athena walkway and echo intersection, or I can also see dividing the map into an outer and an inner ring with pivotal points between them such as the green hallway south of athena walkway, sombre overpass and stratum shift.
Finally, I think that my statements should be qualified by something. I really can't feel how a map will play out entirely without playing it, since for one I can't guess how vents will play out in a game. There are a lot of vents in sekhmet and they may prove to make a big difference. Or not.
you could try putting the null texture on hidden faces on entities if you havent done that already. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Course they contribute to word poly, Brush based entities are still <u>world</u> objets, the only difference is that they are grouped speratly to carry properties that normal world brushes dont, They still come under the world group.
e_poly is the poly count for Models (Dynamic external objects that are insterted into the level on load).
In "subtle inclination", the supports which move the lift are pitch black. Doesn't look very nice, it's most certainly a bug - although I'm not sure if it's one that can be fixed.
Oh, and <b>amazing</b> job on the walls. I can't believe it... I can wallwalk without falling over at every light fixture! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->