Sad Day For Formula 1

AlienCowAlienCow Join Date: 2003-09-20 Member: 21040Members
<div class="IPBDescription">...</div> Not sure whether a great deal of you guys pay much attention to F1 or are fans at all, but F1 is my fave motorsport, behind NASCAR (<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> Which is pretty damn hard to get hold of in the UK). At the moment the Indianapolis GP is going ahead....with six cars. SIX CARS.

Yesterday it was found out that the Michelin tyres that the majority of teams use were unsafe on the newly surfaced track, in practice most the teams using Michelins were suffering from problems.

The only way that all teams would be racing today is if a chicane was inserted in one section of the track, to slow the cars down so the tyres can survive with less wear. The FIA (governing body) said no to this. 9/10 teams said they would not race unless the chicane was inserted (the predictable Ferrari team stuck by the FIA).

So now we see the Ferraris miles out in front. I'm not a Ferrari supporter at the best of times but this is appalling. Followed by the Jordan and Minardi riff raff, who are racing despite agreeing not to. Jordan seeking points, Minardi "forced" to go out just in case Jordan got some points.

The crowds are booing, and rightly so - the fans aren't pleased at paying $85+ for tickets and being let down horrendously. People fly thousands of miles and they have to put up with this crap. I don't think F1 has that big a grip on the American fans as it is, and this is certainly gonna cost them dearly.

I'm not sure whether theres a real point to this, but I'm just a bit **** off. It could all have been solved if an agreement had been reached - it was as simple as that. Its somewhat disheartening to see Jordan and Minardi making a stand with the rest of the teams, then changing their minds also.

Well at least there's a race going on for third place...sort of...

Comments

  • ChronoChrono Local flyboy Join Date: 2003-08-05 Member: 18989Members
    wow that sucks they couldnt postpone the race for a bit till they found a solution?
    i like f1 but i can barely find it on TV ive seen like 2 races on TV so far
  • StormLiongStormLiong Join Date: 2002-12-27 Member: 11569Members
    The main thing with this debate is Michellin. I feel its Michellins fault for not gettin the right tyres in.

    And don't say that the problem could have been fixed by modfying the track. Its unfair just because some teams (mind you the majority of them) are not properly equipped for the race, that the whole track has to changed. What about the other team(s) that did properly prepare for the race?

    I am seriously suprised no one is blaming Michellin's incompetence.
  • SuitePeeSuitePee Join Date: 2004-11-18 Member: 32857Members
    F1 sucks live.
    But I agree it seems unfair to the fans to cheat on them (now that F1 is a 'little competitive'),but still the best way to get noticed is sudden impact on the media stage. I'm sure their point will now be taken into consideration. So that this doesn't happen again.
    It sure perked my interest that F1 has suddenly become interesting. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • AlienCowAlienCow Join Date: 2003-09-20 Member: 21040Members
    Yes, Michelin are clearly to blame, but it could have been solved in other ways. If the chicane was used, then the bridgestone drivers would have started at the front of the grid, is one suggestion I heard.

    Formula One is NOT just about the teams and the drivers...what about the fans? Hell a non-Championship race would have satisfied everyone. Where is the decency from the teams who were able to race but vetoed suggestions? Where is the good sportsmanship?
  • WalkaboutWalkabout Join Date: 2005-05-01 Member: 50651Banned
    Just saw the race. It's mad, though still somewhat exciting thanks to the dutch commentator who always keeps things interesting. Lots of interviews with drivers and teambosses during the race.

    Which brings me to Paul Stoddart, Minardi teamboss. He was asked for a little interview and he went mad. Not at the reporter, but he was just so fed up about everything. He said the reason that Minardi was out there driving was because Jordan broke the promise. The promise not to drive. And I mean he really went mad. He was about to burst in a cursing rage. He said he didn't want to curse on live tv but he was told it was alright so he went ahead a dropped a few F's. He said he had a promise with Jordan's teamboss which was not to drive. But seemingly the Jordon teamboss broke that promise.

    It's also very sad for all those spectators who had no idea what was going on. So a few of them left. Luckily most of them stayed, though. But they shouldn't have thrown stuff on the track. Because if you use you're mind, you'll figure that there is no way that it could be the <i>drivers'</i> fault.

    Anyway, it's good to see Minardi in the points, but Stoddart was happy about it at all. They were offered champagne but Stoddart sent the bottle back.
  • AlienCowAlienCow Join Date: 2003-09-20 Member: 21040Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Walkabout+Jun 19 2005, 07:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Walkabout @ Jun 19 2005, 07:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Which brings me to Paul Stoddart, Minardi teamboss. He was asked for a little interview and he went mad. Not at the reporter, but he was just so fed up about everything. He said the reason that Minardi was out there driving was because Jordan broke the promise. The promise not to drive. And I mean he really went mad. He was about to burst in a cursing rage. He said he didn't want to curse on live tv but he was told it was alright so he went ahead a dropped a few F's. He said he had a promise with Jordan's teamboss which was not to drive. But seemingly the Jordon teamboss broke that promise.

    It's also very sad for all those spectators who had no idea what was going on. So a few of them left. Luckily most of them stayed, though. But they shouldn't have thrown stuff on the track. Because if you use you're mind, you'll figure that there is no way that it could be the <i>drivers'</i> fault. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I dont suppose you heard Jordan's side of the story did you? The boss couldnt have been any more evasive when ITV talked to him, just repeating irrelevant stuff and not why he was racing.

    And yes, some of those "fans" were very foolish.
  • DepotDepot The ModFather Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7956Members
    The FIA would do well to learn from NASCAR. Teams are sent out months in advance to tracks like Daytona and Talledaga to test tires etc., so that come race day all teams are using the same "safe" tire and there are no surprises like this. Yes Michelin is to blame, but the FIA has a poor system in place.
  • AlienCowAlienCow Join Date: 2003-09-20 Member: 21040Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Jun 19 2005, 08:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Jun 19 2005, 08:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The FIA would do well to learn from NASCAR. Teams are sent out months in advance to tracks like Daytona and Talledaga to test tires etc., so that come race day all teams are using the same "safe" tire and there are no surprises like this. Yes Michelin is to blame, but the FIA has a poor system in place. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Fair enough, but bear in mind F1 is an international thing. The teams, (all?) based in Europe, can't afford to be constantly flying over to test. The tyres were thought to be safe, it was a really late announcement and realisation that there was such a huge issue...

    FIA would certainly do well to learn from NASCAR in terms of treatment of fans though!
  • CageyCagey Ex-Unknown Worlds Programmer Join Date: 2002-11-15 Member: 8829Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    edited June 2005
    <!--QuoteBegin-StormLiong+Jun 19 2005, 11:22 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (StormLiong @ Jun 19 2005, 11:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The main thing with this debate is Michellin. I feel its Michellins fault for not gettin the right tyres in.

    And don't say that the problem could have been fixed by modfying the track. Its unfair just because some teams (mind you the majority of them) are not properly equipped for the race, that the whole track has to changed. What about the other team(s) that did properly prepare for the race?

    I am seriously suprised no one is blaming Michellin's incompetence.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Both Michellin and the racing teams made requests to the FIA to allow replacement tires, and both appeals were denied. If the organization had allowed a rule exception for safety reasons (including a tire change for the non-Michelin teams to keep things fair), the other cars could have attempted to race.

    <!--QuoteBegin-ESPN article+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ESPN article)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Michelin said it was unable to determine why its tires weren't sturdy, and asked the FIA if it could ship in a new batch of rubber from its France warehouse.


    The FIA said no, that teams are permitted just one set of tires per weekend.


    So Michelin, the world's largest tiremaker, advised the seven teams -- 14 drivers in all -- not to participate in the race.


    The Michelin teams argued all of Sunday morning for either a break in the tire rule, or that a chicane be placed in the 13th turn to slow the speeds. The turn has been a concern since last season, when Ralf Schumacher was seriously injured in an accident in the same spot.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <a href='http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/news/story?series=f1&id=2089850' target='_blank'>http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/news/story?s...s=f1&id=2089850</a>

    <!--QuoteBegin-Depot+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The FIA would do well to learn from NASCAR. Teams are sent out months in advance to tracks like Daytona and Talledaga to test tires etc., so that come race day all teams are using the same "safe" tire and there are no surprises like this. Yes Michelin is to blame, but the FIA has a poor system in place.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Sounds like a good idea to me--yes, it's a long distance, but a team representative could still examine the conditions without the entire team being present.
  • DepotDepot The ModFather Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7956Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-AlienCow+Jun 19 2005, 04:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AlienCow @ Jun 19 2005, 04:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Jun 19 2005, 08:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Jun 19 2005, 08:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The FIA would do well to learn from NASCAR. Teams are sent out months in advance to tracks like Daytona and Talledaga to test tires etc., so that come race day all teams are using the same "safe" tire and there are no surprises like this. Yes Michelin is to blame, but the FIA has a poor system in place. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Fair enough, but bear in mind F1 is an international thing. The teams, (all?) based in Europe, can't afford to be constantly flying over to test. The tyres were thought to be safe, it was a really late announcement and realisation that there was such a huge issue...

    FIA would certainly do well to learn from NASCAR in terms of treatment of fans though! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Why "can't afford to be constantly flying over to test."? NASCAR teams do it, all the time. Come on now, these F1 teams have megabuck sponsors.
  • AlienCowAlienCow Join Date: 2003-09-20 Member: 21040Members
    edited June 2005
    Some of them are rich. Some of them really really aren't. They're trying to cut costs as it is.
  • V_MANV_MAN V-MAN Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 6217Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Jun 19 2005, 09:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Jun 19 2005, 09:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AlienCow+Jun 19 2005, 04:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AlienCow @ Jun 19 2005, 04:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Jun 19 2005, 08:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Jun 19 2005, 08:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The FIA would do well to learn from NASCAR. Teams are sent out months in advance to tracks like Daytona and Talledaga to test tires etc., so that come race day all teams are using the same "safe" tire and there are no surprises like this. Yes Michelin is to blame, but the FIA has a poor system in place. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Fair enough, but bear in mind F1 is an international thing. The teams, (all?) based in Europe, can't afford to be constantly flying over to test. The tyres were thought to be safe, it was a really late announcement and realisation that there was such a huge issue...

    FIA would certainly do well to learn from NASCAR in terms of treatment of fans though! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Why "can't afford to be constantly flying over to test."? NASCAR teams do it, all the time. Come on now, these F1 teams have megabuck sponsors. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yeah but arn't the NASCAR tracks all in the USA? Where as the F1 tracks are all over the globe.
  • QuaunautQuaunaut The longest seven days in history... Join Date: 2003-03-21 Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--QuoteBegin-SuitePee+Jun 19 2005, 12:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SuitePee @ Jun 19 2005, 12:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> F1 sucks live.
    But I agree it seems unfair to the fans to cheat on them (now that F1 is a 'little competitive'),but still the best way to get noticed is sudden impact on the media stage. I'm sure their point will now be taken into consideration. So that this doesn't happen again.
    It sure perked my interest that F1 has suddenly become interesting. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    There are only two kinds of racing that beats F1: Sprint and SuperBikes. So shush, you.
  • WalkaboutWalkabout Join Date: 2005-05-01 Member: 50651Banned
    <!--QuoteBegin-AlienCow+Jun 19 2005, 03:00 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AlienCow @ Jun 19 2005, 03:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Walkabout+Jun 19 2005, 07:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Walkabout @ Jun 19 2005, 07:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Which brings me to Paul Stoddart, Minardi teamboss. He was asked for a little interview and he went mad. Not at the reporter, but he was just so fed up about everything. He said the reason that Minardi was out there driving was because Jordan broke the promise. The promise not to drive. And I mean he really went mad. He was about to burst in a cursing rage. He said he didn't want to curse on live tv but he was told it was alright so he went ahead a dropped a few F's. He said he had a promise with Jordan's teamboss which was not to drive. But seemingly the Jordon teamboss broke that promise.

    It's also very sad for all those spectators who had no idea what was going on. So a few of them left. Luckily most of them stayed, though. But they shouldn't have thrown stuff on the track. Because if you use you're mind, you'll figure that there is no way that it could be the <i>drivers'</i> fault. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I dont suppose you heard Jordan's side of the story did you? The boss couldnt have been any more evasive when ITV talked to him, just repeating irrelevant stuff and not why he was racing.

    And yes, some of those "fans" were very foolish. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Well they tried to get his side of the story during the race but he just mumbled something and tried to get out of there as fast as possible. So I'm with Paul Stoddart on this one.
  • DepotDepot The ModFather Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7956Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-V MAN+Jun 19 2005, 04:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (V MAN @ Jun 19 2005, 04:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Jun 19 2005, 09:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Jun 19 2005, 09:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AlienCow+Jun 19 2005, 04:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AlienCow @ Jun 19 2005, 04:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Jun 19 2005, 08:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Jun 19 2005, 08:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The FIA would do well to learn from NASCAR. Teams are sent out months in advance to tracks like Daytona and Talledaga to test tires etc., so that come race day all teams are using the same "safe" tire and there are no surprises like this. Yes Michelin is to blame, but the FIA has a poor system in place. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Fair enough, but bear in mind F1 is an international thing. The teams, (all?) based in Europe, can't afford to be constantly flying over to test. The tyres were thought to be safe, it was a really late announcement and realisation that there was such a huge issue...

    FIA would certainly do well to learn from NASCAR in terms of treatment of fans though! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Why "can't afford to be constantly flying over to test."? NASCAR teams do it, all the time. Come on now, these F1 teams have megabuck sponsors. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yeah but arn't the NASCAR tracks all in the USA? Where as the F1 tracks are all over the globe. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Basically true, but for the record NASCAR has been in Mexico and Japan. Couldn't they have (tire)testing done at one or two tracks though?
  • Cereal_KillRCereal_KillR Join Date: 2002-10-31 Member: 1837Members
    I thought all NASCAR tracks were ovals <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • DepotDepot The ModFather Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7956Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Cereal KillR+Jun 19 2005, 05:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cereal KillR @ Jun 19 2005, 05:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I thought all NASCAR tracks were ovals <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Not all of them, they also have several road courses on the circuit.
  • SkySky Join Date: 2004-04-23 Member: 28131Members
    Jeez, didn't know there were so many race car fans on these boards.
  • StormLiongStormLiong Join Date: 2002-12-27 Member: 11569Members
    edited June 2005
    The key point to this issue is what Formula 1 is about. Is it about the spectators or is it about the cars and drivers? Is Formula 1 a spectator sport or just a competition?

    That can be debated on and on. Though I firmly believe F1 is a spectator sport. And to me a spectator sport has no sportsmanship merit. But that doesnt mean I don't love F1 ;p

    I think what the FIA did was right in terms of as a sporting body. There is was no way to compromise at all without breaking the rules that they had put up for 2005. If they did, it will be hypocritical of them. Not to mention the fact that whats to stop the next time sumthin similar happens. So it means the rules can be bended when ppl ask it?

    Now if the FIA was an entertainment body, then yeh they should just forget the rules and do whatever it took to get a full race going. Although modifying the track is something I think its a bit extreme.

    Edit: Major correction "cars and fans".<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • TyrainTyrain Join Date: 2003-01-03 Member: 11746Members
    Gee... don't waste your time on F1.. there is SOCCER in germany.. the game brasil vs. mexico was awesome.
  • StormLiongStormLiong Join Date: 2002-12-27 Member: 11569Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Tyrain+Jun 19 2005, 06:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tyrain @ Jun 19 2005, 06:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Gee... don't waste your time on F1.. there is SOCCER in germany.. the game brasil vs. mexico was awesome. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Hehe
    well don't waste your time on men's soccer...

    Womens Euro Final was played as well
    Germany Vs Norway <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • TyrainTyrain Join Date: 2003-01-03 Member: 11746Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-StormLiong+Jun 20 2005, 12:22 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (StormLiong @ Jun 20 2005, 12:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Tyrain+Jun 19 2005, 06:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tyrain @ Jun 19 2005, 06:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Gee... don't waste your time on F1.. there is SOCCER in germany.. the game brasil vs. mexico was awesome. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Hehe
    well don't waste your time on men's soccer...

    Womens Euro Final was played as well
    Germany Vs Norway <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Nah.. that was boring.. germany was going to win anyway.
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