<!--QuoteBegin-Invader Scoot+Jul 2 2005, 04:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Invader Scoot @ Jul 2 2005, 04:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-TOmekki+Jul 2 2005, 04:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TOmekki @ Jul 2 2005, 04:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Invader Scoot+Jul 2 2005, 04:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Invader Scoot @ Jul 2 2005, 04:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-TOmekki+Jul 2 2005, 04:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TOmekki @ Jul 2 2005, 04:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> edit: and who even got the idea of randomizing it? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't know about you, but in real life I haven't seen any shotguns with crosshairs built to show you exactly where the BB's go. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> look harder, ive even seen aliens and jet packs and medpacks falling from the sky <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ... Ok have you're own opinion, but shotguns don't shoot BB's the exact same every time. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> where? in real life, or ns??
which one do YOU prefer? keep in mind that random shotgun spread will make aliens much harder and unpredictable to hit
<!--QuoteBegin-Invader Scoot+Jul 2 2005, 05:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Invader Scoot @ Jul 2 2005, 05:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Unless you're shooting an alien from far away, the random spread won't make a difference. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> you realise that at some point youre going to have to shoot the fade from somewhere else than next to it
Aaronvroom vroom der party startahJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7020Members
<!--QuoteBegin-TOmekki+Jul 2 2005, 06:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TOmekki @ Jul 2 2005, 06:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Invader Scoot+Jul 2 2005, 05:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Invader Scoot @ Jul 2 2005, 05:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Unless you're shooting an alien from far away, the random spread won't make a difference. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> you realise that at some point youre going to have to shoot the fade from somewhere else than next to it <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Shouldn't there be better ways to balance this than to allow a close quarters random spread weapon to be used to snipe "just because"?
<!--QuoteBegin-Aaron+Jul 2 2005, 05:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Aaron @ Jul 2 2005, 05:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-TOmekki+Jul 2 2005, 06:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TOmekki @ Jul 2 2005, 06:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Invader Scoot+Jul 2 2005, 05:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Invader Scoot @ Jul 2 2005, 05:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Unless you're shooting an alien from far away, the random spread won't make a difference. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> you realise that at some point youre going to have to shoot the fade from somewhere else than next to it <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Shouldn't there be better ways to balance this than to allow a close quarters random spread weapon to be used to snipe "just because"? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> as it stands the shotgun isn't that effective at very close ranges versus skulks due to a lot of factors including bad hitbox code on walls, non-duck jumps, etc
if this changes that it might be balanced but if it doesn't this may underpower the shotty BUT WHO KNOWS
most "sniping" is medium range anyway, not like it's an .50 cal rifle or something
I think we all agreed that anything random and outside of player control makes the game less fun. Or perhaps that was my imaginate world where everyone have got flowers in their hair and stuff..
But honestly, this is like reverting from non-random med from armory to random just because "armories dont give out medpacks in real life". GG realism!
Random sux, period. It makes things harder to balance and unreliable. Random medpacks from the armory sucks (fixed). Random RFK too often throws at a few 2:30 Fades. So now, you don't even know if server registration is screwed or maybe you just got screwed out of hits by random shotgun spray.
Unfortunately, I think this immediately available tech - the shotgun - might actually need to be less reliable just because of its ease of instant availability against unupgraded skulks. So, I'll reserve completely hating random shotty until I see it in action.
Shotgun, lets just try it. I mean it cant be that bad, how big is a 7 degree cone? or 20 for that matter.... In ns terms. a "paint mash" would be great ^^
If its really bad when it gets put in, you can cry and whine then. IMO Its not that big of a change to rant about now... Least not till I get my paint mash
If anything I dont really like how the pellets are layed out right now anyway, feels kinda restricting in a way.
i'm quite fine with the random shotgun spread, since they put the unlimited shotgun range back in. it is kind of ridiculous to shotgun snipe an alien across the room.
and on cloaking all they did was set it from 90% cloaked to 100% cloaked so they now totally cannot be seen
<!--QuoteBegin-Parasit3+Jul 2 2005, 10:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Parasit3 @ Jul 2 2005, 10:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> and on cloaking all they did was set it from 90% cloaked to 100% cloaked so they now totally cannot be seen <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Only when the alien is standing completely still, of course.
<!--QuoteBegin-im lost+Jul 3 2005, 01:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (im lost @ Jul 3 2005, 01:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Parasit3+Jul 2 2005, 10:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Parasit3 @ Jul 2 2005, 10:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> and on cloaking all they did was set it from 90% cloaked to 100% cloaked so they now totally cannot be seen <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Only when the alien is standing completely still, of course.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Eerrr... Nope <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/style_images/TSA_Skin-975/icon9.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> What was 90% before(stationary, walking slowly, and/or within a sensory chamber), is 100% now. Once an alien becomes "fully cloaked," by the same criteria as 3.0.4, now he simply disappears rather than being prone to Half-Life's screwy cloaking mechanics. This system is a lot more fair, and no longer puts an important balance mechanic in the hands of a hardware-dependent effect. A lot of players already were virtually incapable of seeing cloaked aliens, and a lot of others saw them much more easily than intended. Now, we're all on the same page.
As for the shotgun... It was modified to make it closer to the intended functionality - deadly at close range, unreliable at long range. Before you guys see the word "random" and run off screaming(any more), look at the values; 7 degree inner cone, 20 degree outer cone. I can't say for certain but I think that's pretty close to what the current pellet layout was like. It's just not 100% predictable now. You're not accomplishing anything complaining about it now, so just trust us when we say it isn't the end of the world.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think we all agreed that anything random and outside of player control makes the game less fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Random sux, period. It makes things harder to balance and unreliable.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You guys realize that the randomization on the shotgun just puts it in line with <b>all</b> the other hitscan weapons in the game, right? Unless whatever you've been playing allows you to hit the exact thing you are aiming at, with no cone of fire, recoil or other factors that effect whether you score a hit or not, this isn't a new concept.
this is all just because recent events have shown that a little pessimism is justified when changelogs state glorious things like "free upgrades" "innate regen" "random shotgun" "100% cloak always, dont even think about ever noticing a cloaker".
<!--QuoteBegin-TOmekki+Jul 3 2005, 02:24 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TOmekki @ Jul 3 2005, 02:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> this is all just because recent events have shown that a little pessimism is justified when changelogs state glorious things like "free upgrades" "innate regen" "random shotgun" "100% cloak always, dont even think about ever noticing a cloaker".
of course this is what playtesters are for? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't see how anyone views 100% cloaking as unbalanced. The vast majority of players can't see cloakers anyways, you expect me to belive the game is balanced around the 20 some odd percent of people who can acctually spot moving cloakers due to thier certian monitor/vidcard setups and 20/20 vision? 100% cloak will catch cheaters, and that's pretty much it.
Cloaking in general may be unbalanced, but it has nothing to do with the cloak percentages.
[edit]there's a couple threads in the mapping forum that mention it toothy. The transcripter probably caught one of them.
<!--QuoteBegin-TOmekki+Jul 3 2005, 04:29 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TOmekki @ Jul 3 2005, 04:29 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> catching walking cloakers is possible on any system, just requires practice
edit: except not anymore of course <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> TBH I hope walking cloakers don't remain full cloaked any more for balance reasons. Any ground movement should decloak partially.
<!--QuoteBegin-TOmekki+Jul 3 2005, 04:29 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TOmekki @ Jul 3 2005, 04:29 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->catching walking cloakers is possible on any system, just requires practice<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I would argue that any monitor that is unusually naturally dark, doesn't have very good resolution (older, or is particularly small), or if the user prefers to play the game with darker gamma and constrast settings spotting cloaked aliens in 3.0.x is going to be impossible.
And might I add, and this goes for everyone who has responded to any of these threads in this manner, ditch the negative attitudes about changes. After reading what Zek posted and realizing how far reaching this change could be, I'll take time with the PTs to nail down exactly when 100% cloaking is in effect. But honestly when I see the way people are reacting and then treating each other's opinions in these threads I have to stop and wonder why I should bother.
<!--QuoteBegin-Zek+Jul 3 2005, 01:27 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zek @ Jul 3 2005, 01:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You're not accomplishing anything complaining about it now, so just trust us when we say it isn't the end of the world. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Problem is, this has been said alot of times before.
The new hitboxe issues in b6 had to be ound by consties even though it was obvious from the first pub round most people played.
Balance issues in 3.0f were talked of even before all of the things on the changelog were presented, good points and arguements were made and topics were locked and alot fo "trust us" and "wait a few weeks" were told.
Anyway, my point is I dont trust anyone biased to the development team to make a good assessment of the impact of new/changed features any longer. It's not because I question the integrity of the developers or playtesters as individuals, but in general we're talking about quite an inbred organisation here.
And yes, I can say these things without worrying, I've been forced to quit ns because of school anyway so I'm on a rage-trip atm.
ZunniThe best thing to happen to I&S in a long whileJoin Date: 2002-11-26Member: 10016Members
I'll be cleaning up the highlights (most of which are "correct" but I want to flesh a few of them out/clarify a few of them) and getting them up during my daughters nap today...
My life never slows down.... ever <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-tjosan+Jul 3 2005, 08:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (tjosan @ Jul 3 2005, 08:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The new hitboxe issues in b6 had to be found by consties even though it was obvious from the first pub round most people played. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is not in fact the case.
And if you honestly think players like Civilian and Mustang are incapable of spotting anything in upcoming versions that will ruin the balance of NS, then there's really not a lot that will satisfy you.
I think a lot of us are pretty sick of jealousy manifesting itself into hate against the playtesters. Get over it. It's been going on for many, many months now. Forum posts here and there, comments in IRC channels by various players. It's low to keep making little digs at the playtest team when they've done nothing to you.
Hell, even two of your clanmates are playtesters. Have a little faith in them, maybe.
Being able to see cloakers in theory, though having to screw up your eyes because you have to look so hard, while the guy next to you has a different graphics card/settings/whatever that shows them easier and having him go "olo cloaxors down",
is worse than everyone not being able to see cloakers in theory, and toning cloaking itself down so people won't get destroyed.
Random shotgun only nerfs the people who know about the exact spread, and, from my experience, does not make it a weaker weapon at all.
The cloak as buggy said will level the playing feild, som players such as me cant see cloaks while others with older graphics cards can.
Shotgun on the other hand I dont like.
This situation happens twice, and exactly the same each time. Take a skulk running at a marine with a shotgun we have now, the marine will kill the skulk twice.
Now take the random shotgun: there is a chance that the pellets could miss the skulk and their is a chance that they could kill it and there is a chance it could damage it (im not sure how much of a chance with the figures we have been given)
Luck involved like this will make it in some cases much quicker/easier to kill the skulk while in other cases it will make it much harder.
Things like this I hate becuase at the back of my mind I will always wonder if I *could* have kill that skulk if I was luckier.
<!--QuoteBegin-Josheh+Jul 3 2005, 12:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Josheh @ Jul 3 2005, 12:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The cloak as buggy said will level the playing feild, som players such as me cant see cloaks while others with older graphics cards can.
Shotgun on the other hand I dont like.
This situation happens twice, and exactly the same each time. Take a skulk running at a marine with a shotgun we have now, the marine will kill the skulk twice.
Now take the random shotgun: there is a chance that the pellets could miss the skulk and their is a chance that they could kill it and there is a chance it could damage it (im not sure how much of a chance with the figures we have been given)
Luck involved like this will make it in some cases much quicker/easier to kill the skulk while in other cases it will make it much harder.
Things like this I hate becuase at the back of my mind I will always wonder if I *could* have kill that skulk if I was luckier.
This is what made me quit WoW. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> This is where you have to start incorporating another element of play into your game: movement.
This is just one extra change that makes NS a bit less like an true FPS DM Mod and more like the <b>RTS Team</b> FPS Mod that it should be.
By Real-Time Strategy Team I mean that you can group up to take down skulks, you can position yourself sensibly to ambush skulks and you can use your weaponry wisely.
Bear in mind that the 'randomness' of the Shotgun is most likely going to be the following: a randomisation within a defined space. Many will know that the current SG hits with 5 of the pellets within the x-hair circle. Hopefully this should make the Shotgun require more (not less) skill to use, as you will have to make sure that you only use it up close for maximum damage. In my opinion this is exactly what the Shotgun is for; heavy-hitting, close-quarters firepower.
If you spam off half your shots when the Fade is the other end of the corridor and can't do enough damage to it when it goes in for the kill then you deserve to die. Sensible use of weaponry and ammo-conscious shooting are the traits of a more skilled player, who understands the game and can adapt accordingly.
Comments
I don't know about you, but in real life I haven't seen any shotguns with crosshairs built to show you exactly where the BB's go. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
look harder, ive even seen aliens and jet packs and medpacks falling from the sky <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
... Ok have you're own opinion, but shotguns don't shoot BB's the exact same every time. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
where? in real life, or ns??
which one do YOU prefer? keep in mind that random shotgun spread will make aliens much harder and unpredictable to hit
you realise that at some point youre going to have to shoot the fade from somewhere else than next to it
you realise that at some point youre going to have to shoot the fade from somewhere else than next to it <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Shouldn't there be better ways to balance this than to allow a close quarters random spread weapon to be used to snipe "just because"?
you realise that at some point youre going to have to shoot the fade from somewhere else than next to it <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Shouldn't there be better ways to balance this than to allow a close quarters random spread weapon to be used to snipe "just because"? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
as it stands the shotgun isn't that effective at very close ranges versus skulks due to a lot of factors including bad hitbox code on walls, non-duck jumps, etc
if this changes that it might be balanced but if it doesn't this may underpower the shotty BUT WHO KNOWS
most "sniping" is medium range anyway, not like it's an .50 cal rifle or something
But honestly, this is like reverting from non-random med from armory to random just because "armories dont give out medpacks in real life". GG realism!
Unfortunately, I think this immediately available tech - the shotgun - might actually need to be less reliable just because of its ease of instant availability against unupgraded skulks. So, I'll reserve completely hating random shotty until I see it in action.
If its really bad when it gets put in, you can cry and whine then. IMO Its not that big of a change to rant about now... Least not till I get my paint mash
If anything I dont really like how the pellets are layed out right now anyway, feels kinda restricting in a way.
and on cloaking all they did was set it from 90% cloaked to 100% cloaked so they now totally cannot be seen
Only when the alien is standing completely still, of course.
Only when the alien is standing completely still, of course.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Eerrr... Nope <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/style_images/TSA_Skin-975/icon9.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> What was 90% before(stationary, walking slowly, and/or within a sensory chamber), is 100% now. Once an alien becomes "fully cloaked," by the same criteria as 3.0.4, now he simply disappears rather than being prone to Half-Life's screwy cloaking mechanics. This system is a lot more fair, and no longer puts an important balance mechanic in the hands of a hardware-dependent effect. A lot of players already were virtually incapable of seeing cloaked aliens, and a lot of others saw them much more easily than intended. Now, we're all on the same page.
As for the shotgun... It was modified to make it closer to the intended functionality - deadly at close range, unreliable at long range. Before you guys see the word "random" and run off screaming(any more), look at the values; 7 degree inner cone, 20 degree outer cone. I can't say for certain but I think that's pretty close to what the current pellet layout was like. It's just not 100% predictable now. You're not accomplishing anything complaining about it now, so just trust us when we say it isn't the end of the world.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Random sux, period. It makes things harder to balance and unreliable.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You guys realize that the randomization on the shotgun just puts it in line with <b>all</b> the other hitscan weapons in the game, right? Unless whatever you've been playing allows you to hit the exact thing you are aiming at, with no cone of fire, recoil or other factors that effect whether you score a hit or not, this isn't a new concept.
of course this is what playtesters are for?
of course this is what playtesters are for? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't see how anyone views 100% cloaking as unbalanced. The vast majority of players can't see cloakers anyways, you expect me to belive the game is balanced around the 20 some odd percent of people who can acctually spot moving cloakers due to thier certian monitor/vidcard setups and 20/20 vision? 100% cloak will catch cheaters, and that's pretty much it.
Cloaking in general may be unbalanced, but it has nothing to do with the cloak percentages.
[edit]there's a couple threads in the mapping forum that mention it toothy. The transcripter probably caught one of them.
edit: except not anymore of course
edit: except not anymore of course <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
TBH I hope walking cloakers don't remain full cloaked any more for balance reasons. Any ground movement should decloak partially.
I would argue that any monitor that is unusually naturally dark, doesn't have very good resolution (older, or is particularly small), or if the user prefers to play the game with darker gamma and constrast settings spotting cloaked aliens in 3.0.x is going to be impossible.
And might I add, and this goes for everyone who has responded to any of these threads in this manner, ditch the negative attitudes about changes. After reading what Zek posted and realizing how far reaching this change could be, I'll take time with the PTs to nail down exactly when 100% cloaking is in effect. But honestly when I see the way people are reacting and then treating each other's opinions in these threads I have to stop and wonder why I should bother.
Problem is, this has been said alot of times before.
The new hitboxe issues in b6 had to be ound by consties even though it was obvious from the first pub round most people played.
Balance issues in 3.0f were talked of even before all of the things on the changelog were presented, good points and arguements were made and topics were locked and alot fo "trust us" and "wait a few weeks" were told.
Anyway, my point is I dont trust anyone biased to the development team to make a good assessment of the impact of new/changed features any longer. It's not because I question the integrity of the developers or playtesters as individuals, but in general we're talking about quite an inbred organisation here.
And yes, I can say these things without worrying, I've been forced to quit ns because of school anyway so I'm on a rage-trip atm.
My life never slows down.... ever <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Also what was that Tangerine song you played? I might try and make a fruits playlist... (Peaches springs to mind)
This is not in fact the case.
And if you honestly think players like Civilian and Mustang are incapable of spotting anything in upcoming versions that will ruin the balance of NS, then there's really not a lot that will satisfy you.
I think a lot of us are pretty sick of jealousy manifesting itself into hate against the playtesters. Get over it. It's been going on for many, many months now. Forum posts here and there, comments in IRC channels by various players. It's low to keep making little digs at the playtest team when they've done nothing to you.
Hell, even two of your clanmates are playtesters. Have a little faith in them, maybe.
is worse than everyone not being able to see cloakers in theory, and toning cloaking itself down so people won't get destroyed.
Random shotgun only nerfs the people who know about the exact spread, and, from my experience, does not make it a weaker weapon at all.
<b>leveling the playing field, anyone?</b>
Shotgun on the other hand I dont like.
This situation happens twice, and exactly the same each time.
Take a skulk running at a marine with a shotgun we have now, the marine will kill the skulk twice.
Now take the random shotgun: there is a chance that the pellets could miss the skulk and their is a chance that they could kill it and there is a chance it could damage it (im not sure how much of a chance with the figures we have been given)
Luck involved like this will make it in some cases much quicker/easier to kill the skulk while in other cases it will make it much harder.
Things like this I hate becuase at the back of my mind I will always wonder if I *could* have kill that skulk if I was luckier.
This is what made me quit WoW.
I'm smart.
Shotgun on the other hand I dont like.
This situation happens twice, and exactly the same each time.
Take a skulk running at a marine with a shotgun we have now, the marine will kill the skulk twice.
Now take the random shotgun: there is a chance that the pellets could miss the skulk and their is a chance that they could kill it and there is a chance it could damage it (im not sure how much of a chance with the figures we have been given)
Luck involved like this will make it in some cases much quicker/easier to kill the skulk while in other cases it will make it much harder.
Things like this I hate becuase at the back of my mind I will always wonder if I *could* have kill that skulk if I was luckier.
This is what made me quit WoW. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is where you have to start incorporating another element of play into your game: movement.
This is just one extra change that makes NS a bit less like an true FPS DM Mod and more like the <b>RTS Team</b> FPS Mod that it should be.
By Real-Time Strategy Team I mean that you can group up to take down skulks, you can position yourself sensibly to ambush skulks and you can use your weaponry wisely.
Bear in mind that the 'randomness' of the Shotgun is most likely going to be the following: a randomisation within a defined space. Many will know that the current SG hits with 5 of the pellets within the x-hair circle. Hopefully this should make the Shotgun require more (not less) skill to use, as you will have to make sure that you only use it up close for maximum damage. In my opinion this is exactly what the Shotgun is for; heavy-hitting, close-quarters firepower.
If you spam off half your shots when the Fade is the other end of the corridor and can't do enough damage to it when it goes in for the kill then you deserve to die. Sensible use of weaponry and ammo-conscious shooting are the traits of a more skilled player, who understands the game and can adapt accordingly.