Why Weapon Ups First
DC_Darkling
Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
<div class="IPBDescription">minus armor1</div> We all know good comms get armor1 first. But why does it stop there? Why armor1 > weapons3 > then armor ups. for the love of flayra WHY? I always get armor2 first, sometimes ever armor3.. here is why:
Lets first asume pub play:
* aim is crap
* teamplay is like not there
So we upgrade armor1, then start weapons. We shoot the fade, mis half of the bullets, lack armor, die.
Now we upgrade armor2. We shoot the fade, mis half the bullets, do less dmg, live through the attack, and pump more bullets out, making the total dmg higher then example 1.
Now let us asume the better pub. They can aim. Making you shoot each bullet means in both examples more dmg, but in example 2 you shoot more bullets, doing in the long term, more dmg.
Now let us asume a very good pub, or even competitive play. Good aim AND teamhax.
Kharaa attack in groups, so there is a chance you get hit by 2 aliens, making you die even faster. So armor might help you live, pump out more bullets, compared to example1. if they have a lerk, again, armor is very needed to stay alive long enought to pump out reasonable dmg.
If teammates weld and the comm medspam, you live even longer, to yet again pump out more dmg.
My point is: with armor2 you greatly expend the life expendenty of your marines. And if you rag, for example, 50 bullets down one second, and you die in half a second, or you live for 1.50 seconds, in the end, you did more dmg by living.
get armor, try it, and lets see how it works. I played this since 2.x and it has not let me down yet.
Lets first asume pub play:
* aim is crap
* teamplay is like not there
So we upgrade armor1, then start weapons. We shoot the fade, mis half of the bullets, lack armor, die.
Now we upgrade armor2. We shoot the fade, mis half the bullets, do less dmg, live through the attack, and pump more bullets out, making the total dmg higher then example 1.
Now let us asume the better pub. They can aim. Making you shoot each bullet means in both examples more dmg, but in example 2 you shoot more bullets, doing in the long term, more dmg.
Now let us asume a very good pub, or even competitive play. Good aim AND teamhax.
Kharaa attack in groups, so there is a chance you get hit by 2 aliens, making you die even faster. So armor might help you live, pump out more bullets, compared to example1. if they have a lerk, again, armor is very needed to stay alive long enought to pump out reasonable dmg.
If teammates weld and the comm medspam, you live even longer, to yet again pump out more dmg.
My point is: with armor2 you greatly expend the life expendenty of your marines. And if you rag, for example, 50 bullets down one second, and you die in half a second, or you live for 1.50 seconds, in the end, you did more dmg by living.
get armor, try it, and lets see how it works. I played this since 2.x and it has not let me down yet.
Comments
a2 = 3 swipes
there goes your theory. also, w0 shotguns dont cut it against fades. even with w1 youre having problems.
More armor doesn't really matter, cause it still takes the same amount of bites.
A0 = 3 bites (kind of 2 with parasite)
A1 = 3
A2 = 3
A3 = 4
Swipes is A0 = 2, A1-3 = 3
A medpack might make you take 4 swipes, but then you're not really hurting the fade either.
If you want to stop fades to totally destroy you, you want as much firepower as you can afford. armor doenst stop fades, imho its superior firepower that can hold them back.
If you say things like this, youre a retard. Simple. As.
a2 = 3 swipes
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->More armor doesn't really matter, cause it still takes the same amount of bites.
A0 = 3 bites (kind of 2 with parasite)
A1 = 3
A2 = 3
A3 = 4<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That logic is flawed, a descent comm drops medpacks on the marines during battle. With an extra armour upgrade the medpack matters, without the medpack doesn't make a difference.
Also the meaning of this is having HMG ready against fades. My HMGs are long done before I see a fade on the entire map.
Also, ziggy.. if you don't understand jokes when you read them, you are the retarted one.
Also I trust on getting HA ready, lvl2 HA will keep you alive.
thats something thats just not going to happen, unless you rush AA or kill both alien nodes straight away.
and rushing AA is usually because of a jp rush strat, and in that case you wont have res for hmg's.
In pubs, I might rush armor 3 (if you can get it off at 5 minutes into the game, pub fades won't expect it), but in competitive play, you just can't hack it without weapons upgrades.
-Brackhar
Armor 2 helps against skulks, but by the time your second upgrade is finished you're pretty close to having to worry about fades. Without weapons one, or with late weapons two your team has more or less no chance to acctually drop the early fade, and thus you will in the end very likely lose the game.
Against W3 HMGs even a good fade will have difficulty landing a single swipe on most flybys.
electrify and turrets? <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Also pls remind yourself, by time fade arive you are ment to have armor2, HMG, shotty, GL ready and weapons1 in the oven, or just done.
Since rines should travel in groups, it means that fade will have trouble. (we are using a thing called range don't we)
Also lets look at the general picture, not the uber1337masterpwning fade of the best NSclans who have a deathscore of 2 all game. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
But you made a point I really want to repeat here:
Armor 2 helps against skulks, but by the time your second upgrade is finished you're pretty close to having to worry about fades
skulks.. YES. point is to have armor2 with weapons before that fade like I said. Also, what gets fades?
res. What gets res? mapcontrol + frags. If your rines live longer they get more mapcontrol, and frags. Kharaa get less. Fades are later, if at all.
Only thing I can say TRY IT. Once or twice. I always comm like this (FX server and Brys lately) and I win most of my matches. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
armor2 for skulks + lerks. By time they get fade, we have HMGs and weapons1 coming up. ANY HIVE ONE FADE CAN DIE TO HMGs (plural ppl, hmgS) Aim in a group. If you keep pushing in the skulk period, they have to pick.. fade or hive.
I do agree though. Some fades tend to be not killed, but its not a need. If they blink in, slash, blink out. you medspam, they weld, they move, fade comes again. In the end, you won ground.
not being able to take damage up close while hacking away with knives
not being able to take damage up close while hacking away with knives<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In reality, Marines do a lot of fighting in medium to close quaters. Many places on the map are either too small to start with, or you're walking through an ambush anyway.
Yes Marines do have the advantage of ranged weaponry, but Aliens should be trying to minimise that, and in turn, only fight when they have a chance to win. Ie, have the shortest possible time to reach your target and take it down as quick as possible. As for the Marines, a big part of combat for them is evaison. Utilising knockback, dodging leap, or blink, ducking dive bombing Lerks, anything and everything to avoid an attack. You can't always have the advantage of range in a fight. So longlivity can be heapful at times. On the same note, being able to take down an enemy quickly and decisivly can also be helpful.
In the end, it really comes down to how your team is doing at the time, and what you plan to do. Say you've got a lot of Marines coming through a phase, the first one or two are going to take the brunt of the attack, so the more damage they can take the longer those two will live, if they're taken down in half a second, the rest of the men have no chance either. Or, if you're attempting to siege out the Aliens, having the advantage of damage would be a good choice. Being able to keep off skulks relentlessly trying to take down the TF or Phase, or scaring off Fades with a quick barrage of shotgun fire.
In conclusion, from my experience in clan matches if you've got the resource control to actually keep the upgrades pumping (and a phase inside a building hive <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->), the time differnce between upgrades is more or less trivial.
And again, think of it. How are you gona sue the nifty weapons1, if you are dead after 5 bullets.
Aliens, on the other hand, are trying thier best to minimize that advantage. Ambushes being the best way, if not, then rush all at once so some meatshield while the other get close enough to bite.
If the aliens are close enough to bite, the rine has lost most of his advantage already. Only medspam will usually save him then.
It's why the chamber of choice for upgrades is movements. Movements let you either sneak up on them (silence) or cover the distance faster (celerity)
Marines push with phasegates, not thier armour + welders + medspam. There is no point in getting an upgrade that will let your marines trek further when they can just phase. Armour 2 won't help in a fight for a seige point.
If you think it does, think about how much difference that extra 5 armour makes at lvl 0 when a lerk is sporing.
What DOES help in a fight is the extra damage. Fades will get scared off more easily when they're actually HURT. The downtime of them healing and thier need for extra caution is much better than any extra armour you might have.
Before 5 min, you should have HMG + weapons1 with this technique, aswell as armor2.
Wow, I can't believe I was this retarded when I posted a few articles on commanding.
If lerks are annoying A1 > wp2 > a2 > (wp3 or a3 depending if they have focus or not)
How the hell are you going to get a2/w1/Adv. armory and enough res to drop multiple HMGs within that time?
Are you going to SKIP the obs and phase tech or something?