<!--QuoteBegin-2 of Eight+Jul 11 2005, 09:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (2 of Eight @ Jul 11 2005, 09:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-ArChEtYp3+Jul 11 2005, 10:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ArChEtYp3 @ Jul 11 2005, 10:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I like it fast and mindless. Play Classic for long enough and the strategies are always the same in the end anyway. So its just slow and mindless. I agree about the plugins, though. While some of them are a good idea (maximum level raise), most are stupid. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I hope you're joking <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> He's not thats why its funny
<!--QuoteBegin-JoeJustJoe+Jul 14 2005, 01:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JoeJustJoe @ Jul 14 2005, 01:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If you don't like CO....PLay NS!!!!!
That was the hardest thing i evah had to think of...I have a headache now... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You've completely ignored a number of things. One, it's already been established that Combat-only servers vastly outnumber Classic-only servers; combine this fact with finding a tolerable community (there's no fun in playing with people not near your skill level - this can be applied to either end of the sprectrum) and finding one within a tolerable distance and ping time, and finding a place to "just play NS" can be more challenging than you anticipate.
Second, for all the reasons stated above and more, playing Combat is a virtual inevitability, if nothing else. But Combat itself is not as such the problem, but more so <i>modded</i> Combat - extralevels and such - that only help to accentuate the "mindless fragfest" mentality so often connected to Combat. Not to mention how many servers run said plugins.
I'm not saying that the game itself isn't flawed, because that is a fallacy, but people trying to pass the buck and tell other to simply ignore such issues is a horrible solution.
Only 2 servers I play on are, schamptons classic and all the nsarmslab servers. The rest of them are filled with mindless retarded plugins and people that die as fade and wonder why they cant re-evolve.
Based on the whole 'training' theme of CO, wouldn't it make more sense for alie upgrades to require hive upgrades first?
I mean: at the start you can pick anything, but for your second chamber upgrade you need to get weapon upgrades 1 first. The problem with this is that there's little variation in how aliens play (but I find most people just go chambers and advanced lifeforms with no upgrades). Perhaps a time limit before being able to re-advanced gestate after dieing would help balance it too. Perhaps the same application to marine JPs and Heavies...
And, if you've become bored with NS...try finding some new maps...there's a lot of them (some are actually non-siege NS maps).
what really pisses me off in combat, is when the marines are winning in the scores 100-50 and then the alien team gets 3 onos with no upgrades and wins the game 20 minutes later.
in combat, the aliens hardly need teamwork. It only takes 3 stat****s for the aliens to win. In combat maps, onos doesnt take any skill because of 3 major factors:
1. Redemption adds luck to your survival rate and keeps you from dieing. 2. Onos is for people who cant dodge bullets. 3. It doesnt take any skill to devour someone if you have stomp.
on the other hand marines will not even make it out of the base without teamwork. one marine wont kill a hive by himself.
a jetpack is like a spaceship going through a minefield. As the jetpack flies along the map, he picks up more and more aliens on his tail that collect and follow him to the hive.(we all know what im talking about. that is how almost all aliens play.)
CO is a great way to learn how to play the game, it allows you to understand what the capabilities are in an NS map.
The CO servers with buildmenu allows people to work with the buildings that you would understand in an NS map.
You don't get many NS maps where aliens get to play with 3rd hive abilities and it sucks.
Making people "reearn points" to play CO defeats any purpose in the practicing. JP's and Onos sometimes last only SECONDS in combat (even without the 50 lvl servers). Having them reearn points keeps anyone from practicing anything but superskulk or basic marine with HMG.
CO is fine the way it is. It also has brought in TONS of extra people you wouldn't have had without it.
I even took a chance with Fade on an NS server and fared well, without CO it wouldn't have happened.
co doesn't teach teamwork which is they key to natural selection
as for the tons of players its bringing, sure thats great and all, but id rather have 1 guy in an ns match doing what the team needs, instead of 7 guys sitting around in marine spawn complaining for their shotguns
<!--QuoteBegin-Kite Eating Tree+Jul 15 2005, 08:28 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kite Eating Tree @ Jul 15 2005, 08:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->CO is a great way to learn how to play the game, it allows you to understand what the capabilities are in an NS map. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I beg to differ. How does playing as an alien with 5 upgrades prepare you for 'real' fading? It doesn't. Many clanners have stated that playing as such is *detrimental* to proper fading, not a good manner of learning.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Making people "reearn points" to play CO defeats any purpose in the practicing. JP's and Onos sometimes last only SECONDS in combat (even without the 50 lvl servers). Having them reearn points keeps anyone from practicing anything but superskulk or basic marine with HMG.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->So let me get this straight: teaching people that their upgrades and equipment are disposable and incredibly easy (ie: free) to replace is a <i>good</i> thing? -_-
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->CO is fine the way it is. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Combat is incredibly imbalanced and is a poor learning tool for classic. How is that "fine"?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It also has brought in TONS of extra people you wouldn't have had without it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Yeah... people who beg for a shotgun the entire game and wonder why they can't re-evolve when they die as a 1-hive onos to 3 LMGers.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I even took a chance with Fade on an NS server and fared well, without CO it wouldn't have happened.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Right now, that is the only decent thing about co_ maps. If some changes were made that would still be the case.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The theme of CO is good<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The theme of CO is terrible, it is the antithesis of what NS is supposed to be. It turns it into Counter-Strike (Counter-Suck is more like it) with aliens.
35% of ALL NS servers run extralevels2/extralevels2_rework, so it's safe to say it's by far the most popular amxx plugin in existence.
If you DON'T like it, or would much prefer a plain vanilla server, use -mE-'s new web based <a href='http://nssb.psix.info/en/home/main/' target='_blank'>Natural Selection Server Browser, or NSSB</a>.
A problem that I notice with Combat is that there is no immediately obvious penalty for dying. This promotes feeding and a lot of resources-for-kills (in ns_) or experience (in co_). The players believe that dying is only a mark on the scoreboard, and sometimes they don't even care about that, so the continue to perform suicide runs on the marines, not knowing that each skulk that dies gets the opposing team that much closer to a jetpack.
This thread has been discussed on the NSRadio.net show <i>Forum Junkies </i>because of it's interest to the show hosts urinal-cake, Vepo, Firewater, and ds^depot.
Check out the live recording and download over at <a href='http://www.NSRadio.net' target='_blank'>http://www.NSRadio.net</a>.
To be honest it's not as much the fault of CO as it is the fault of the mentality of players who are into CO.
CO in itself can be fun, it depends a bit on who you play with though as well. Granted, it requires way less intelligence to get into, which would explain a lot as to why CO is more popular.
Comments
I agree about the plugins, though. While some of them are a good idea (maximum level raise), most are stupid. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I hope you're joking <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
He's not thats why its funny
That was the hardest thing i evah had to think of...I have a headache now...
That was the hardest thing i evah had to think of...I have a headache now... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You've completely ignored a number of things. One, it's already been established that Combat-only servers vastly outnumber Classic-only servers; combine this fact with finding a tolerable community (there's no fun in playing with people not near your skill level - this can be applied to either end of the sprectrum) and finding one within a tolerable distance and ping time, and finding a place to "just play NS" can be more challenging than you anticipate.
Second, for all the reasons stated above and more, playing Combat is a virtual inevitability, if nothing else. But Combat itself is not as such the problem, but more so <i>modded</i> Combat - extralevels and such - that only help to accentuate the "mindless fragfest" mentality so often connected to Combat. Not to mention how many servers run said plugins.
I'm not saying that the game itself isn't flawed, because that is a fallacy, but people trying to pass the buck and tell other to simply ignore such issues is a horrible solution.
I mean: at the start you can pick anything, but for your second chamber upgrade you need to get weapon upgrades 1 first. The problem with this is that there's little variation in how aliens play (but I find most people just go chambers and advanced lifeforms with no upgrades). Perhaps a time limit before being able to re-advanced gestate after dieing would help balance it too. Perhaps the same application to marine JPs and Heavies...
And, if you've become bored with NS...try finding some new maps...there's a lot of them (some are actually non-siege NS maps).
It worked for me.
what really pisses me off in combat, is when the marines are winning in the scores 100-50 and then the alien team gets 3 onos with no upgrades and wins the game 20 minutes later.
in combat, the aliens hardly need teamwork. It only takes 3 stat****s for the aliens to win. In combat maps, onos doesnt take any skill because of 3 major factors:
1. Redemption adds luck to your survival rate and keeps you from dieing.
2. Onos is for people who cant dodge bullets.
3. It doesnt take any skill to devour someone if you have stomp.
on the other hand marines will not even make it out of the base without teamwork. one marine wont kill a hive by himself.
a jetpack is like a spaceship going through a minefield. As the jetpack flies along the map, he picks up more and more aliens on his tail that collect and follow him to the hive.(we all know what im talking about. that is how almost all aliens play.)
The CO servers with buildmenu allows people to work with the buildings that you would understand in an NS map.
You don't get many NS maps where aliens get to play with 3rd hive abilities and it sucks.
Making people "reearn points" to play CO defeats any purpose in the practicing. JP's and Onos sometimes last only SECONDS in combat (even without the 50 lvl servers). Having them reearn points keeps anyone from practicing anything but superskulk or basic marine with HMG.
CO is fine the way it is. It also has brought in TONS of extra people you wouldn't have had without it.
I even took a chance with Fade on an NS server and fared well, without CO it wouldn't have happened.
as for the tons of players its bringing, sure thats great and all, but id rather have 1 guy in an ns match doing what the team needs, instead of 7 guys sitting around in marine spawn complaining for their shotguns
Down with combat!
But plug-ins kill it.
1000 HP 1000 armor onos with fully upgrades WONT DIE EVEN 15 MARINES SHOOT LIKE HELL WITH THEIR HMGs.
BUT IT CAN MAKE A PWNAGE WITHIN 1 MIN.
WTH.
AND I HATE THE LV SYSTEM.
ONCE THERE S A FADE, THERE S NO CHANCE IT WILL DISAPPEAR,
In NS map u may need Teamwork to take a paper fade down. It may cost lives and resources, also your time. IN CO THIS RULE WAS MESS UP.
Fade down, ANOTHER SEC MORE FADES POP UP
IT WILL ONLY GET STRONGER AND STRONGER .
(cara regen redmp foucs adrea cele slience cloak )
(well i dun think u can take a fade with such upgrade easily with ur toys...)
In CO what u can do (as a rine) say your prayer.
Even u got 15 lv u will pwn by a foucs skulk.
CO is meaningless.
Ownage never stop.
some servers
USF co_only
a 15 lv onos can make a 99: 1 .
WTH
I beg to differ. How does playing as an alien with 5 upgrades prepare you for 'real' fading? It doesn't. Many clanners have stated that playing as such is *detrimental* to proper fading, not a good manner of learning.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Making people "reearn points" to play CO defeats any purpose in the practicing. JP's and Onos sometimes last only SECONDS in combat (even without the 50 lvl servers). Having them reearn points keeps anyone from practicing anything but superskulk or basic marine with HMG.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->So let me get this straight: teaching people that their upgrades and equipment are disposable and incredibly easy (ie: free) to replace is a <i>good</i> thing? -_-
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->CO is fine the way it is. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Combat is incredibly imbalanced and is a poor learning tool for classic. How is that "fine"?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It also has brought in TONS of extra people you wouldn't have had without it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Yeah... people who beg for a shotgun the entire game and wonder why they can't re-evolve when they die as a 1-hive onos to 3 LMGers.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I even took a chance with Fade on an NS server and fared well, without CO it wouldn't have happened.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Right now, that is the only decent thing about co_ maps. If some changes were made that would still be the case.
The theme of CO is terrible, it is the antithesis of what NS is supposed to be. It turns it into Counter-Strike (Counter-Suck is more like it) with aliens.
If you DON'T like it, or would much prefer a plain vanilla server, use -mE-'s new web based <a href='http://nssb.psix.info/en/home/main/' target='_blank'>Natural Selection Server Browser, or NSSB</a>.
Check out the live recording and download over at <a href='http://www.NSRadio.net' target='_blank'>http://www.NSRadio.net</a>.
CO in itself can be fun, it depends a bit on who you play with though as well. Granted, it requires way less intelligence to get into, which would explain a lot as to why CO is more popular.