Keeping Mature Games Out Of Kid's Hands
Quaunaut
The longest seven days in history... Join Date: 2003-03-21 Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
The longest seven days in history... Join Date: 2003-03-21 Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
in Off-Topic
<div class="IPBDescription">Could that bill be a good thing?</div> After reading <a href='http://ps2.ign.com/articles/634/634229p1.html' target='_blank'>this</a> interview, I'm inclined to think, "yes". It'd finally put us in perfect respect with the Movie industry by barring everyone not of adequate age, or the retailer takes a heavy, HEAVY damned fine by the government, as well as the ESRB.
I'm thinking its great. As you read in the article, it won't be illegal for the kid to play the game(say, if the kid's parents buy it for them), but the kid can't buy it. Now, how this is different from the current system is minimal, but it absolutely 100% forces the retailer to do their damn jobs.
I especially like how Yee ends it all:
<!--QuoteBegin-www.ign.com+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (www.ign.com)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->IGN: What is your general perspective on the gaming industry right now?
Yee: As a whole, I have a lot of respect for the gaming industry. I applaud it for its ingenuity, for its creativeness, for its entrepreneurial attitude. I am absolutely amazed as to how far and quickly this industry has matured over the years. Each year the graphics are more life-like. For children, it's a great teaching tool in the right hands, with the right content. Unfortunately there is also adult material in many of these games that is not appropriate to children. What I'm trying to do is be "hands off" with the industry. I'm a strong First Amendment supporter, and I don't want to inhibit any [of the industry's] self-expression whatsoever. As a parent, as a father, as a child psychologist I have a responsibility to my children and to other children to say that these adult materials, these ultra-violent activities, should not be in the hands of our children.
I'm the last one to limit people's self-expression. I don't think we in government should define what's appropriate or not, what's tasteful or not tasteful. That's the last thing I want government to do. But for the sake of kids, I think we do have a responsibility to come in and protect our children.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Protect isn't the right word(shelter?) in my opinion, but it still gets the job done.
I'm thinking its great. As you read in the article, it won't be illegal for the kid to play the game(say, if the kid's parents buy it for them), but the kid can't buy it. Now, how this is different from the current system is minimal, but it absolutely 100% forces the retailer to do their damn jobs.
I especially like how Yee ends it all:
<!--QuoteBegin-www.ign.com+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (www.ign.com)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->IGN: What is your general perspective on the gaming industry right now?
Yee: As a whole, I have a lot of respect for the gaming industry. I applaud it for its ingenuity, for its creativeness, for its entrepreneurial attitude. I am absolutely amazed as to how far and quickly this industry has matured over the years. Each year the graphics are more life-like. For children, it's a great teaching tool in the right hands, with the right content. Unfortunately there is also adult material in many of these games that is not appropriate to children. What I'm trying to do is be "hands off" with the industry. I'm a strong First Amendment supporter, and I don't want to inhibit any [of the industry's] self-expression whatsoever. As a parent, as a father, as a child psychologist I have a responsibility to my children and to other children to say that these adult materials, these ultra-violent activities, should not be in the hands of our children.
I'm the last one to limit people's self-expression. I don't think we in government should define what's appropriate or not, what's tasteful or not tasteful. That's the last thing I want government to do. But for the sake of kids, I think we do have a responsibility to come in and protect our children.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Protect isn't the right word(shelter?) in my opinion, but it still gets the job done.
Comments
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Your kidding me right? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<b>Credit Cards</b>
...
Your kidding me right? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<b>Credit Cards</b> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah to buy a game off steam you use a credit card which means
A) your over 18
b) your parents let you
No, as no discussions are actually had in discussions. Either way, this is more of a informative thing out there, the "Could" was more of a hook. I just wanted to show that there is a politition doing things right(maybe).
While I don't have any problem with the intent of the bill, I thought I'd point out that the movie rating system is completely voluntary--there is <a href='http://www.regalcinemas.com/movies/ratings.html' target='_blank'>no law</a> behind it, and no punishment for theatres that ignore it (except for the fact that patrons might take their business elsewhere out of protest). The ESRB system is already enforced with the same level of oversight as the MPAA's rating system and TV ratings. The proposed legislation for games has no basis in other rating systems.
I'm not sure where people began thinking that legal methods were necessary to bring game rating enforcement up to the level of movie rating enforcement, since it's already there (statistically, I've seen evidence that ESRB ratings are already enforced better than Classification and Rating Administration ratings, but I don't know if the study was scientifically rigorous). I suppose that it's just the ignorant assuption that movie ratings actually are universally enforced. If the game ratings system is going to be legislated, movies should be too...
As a rule, I think that any new law ought to address a demonstrated need before it is formally considered; if people are seriously interested in protecting children from questionable content, this shouldn't be focused solely on games... the fact that it is means someone hasn't done their homework.
EDIT: What makes this more ridiculous is the fact that it's a kneejerk reaction to a case where fines would be completely tangential to the real problem--a hefty chunk of the interview is focused on the recent GTA Easter eggs, which slipped through the ratings system anyway. If the ESRB doesn't know content exists and therefore can't account for that content when it rates a game, how is a retailer fine supposed to fix the issue?
How about addressing the problem of accurate ratings based on the potential experience instead of what's on the surface?
I also find it infuriating that Rockstar is allowed to represent the entire game industry. They're egocentric **** and probably are giddy with glee that someone unlocked their sex mini-game while they watch the cash pour in. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I also find it infuriating that Rockstar is allowed to represent the entire game industry. They're egocentric **** and probably are giddy with glee that someone unlocked their sex mini-game while they watch the cash pour in. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That too <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Not if you want it to be unbiased
Anyway, why should the state step in where the parents should be doing the work? Don't flipping have kids if you don't plan on raising them properly.
And Cagey, its true that its not legally enforced? Wow. WTH is going on...
And Cagey, its true that its not legally enforced? Wow. WTH is going on...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yep, the governing body for movie ratings is the Classification and Rating Administration (<a href='http://www.filmratings.com' target='_blank'>CARA</a>), which is not a government organization. The ratings system is entirely voluntary:
<!--QuoteBegin-Film Ratings History on the CARA website+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Film Ratings History on the CARA website)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Then on November 1, 1968, we announced the birth of the new voluntary film rating system of the motion picture industry, with three organizations, NATO, MPAA, and IFIDA, as its monitoring and guiding groups.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
NATO in that sentence is the <a href='http://www.natoonline.org/' target='_blank'>National Association of Theatre Owners</a>, not the <a href='http://www.nato.org/' target='_blank'>North Atlantic Treaty Organisation</a> <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
A) your over 18
b) your parents let you <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I had a credit card ever since I was 16.
Games stores don't sell M rated games already anyway, because a lot of states have laws against it and more stores just have it against policy. This law doesn't do anything for when little billy gets his mom to buy GTA for him from the clerk who just refused to sell it to him 15 minutes ago.
But disregarding all that:
Is it good for the kid's personal well being? Probably.
Is it good for freedom? Definately not.
No, as no discussions are actually had in discussions. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ah, God bless partisan hackery, ad hominem, straw men, trolls, false dichotomy, and incompetence.
Dont know what stores <i>you</i> go to, maybe you should stop spending time at Wal-Mart... <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Seriously, pretty much every store sells M rated games....except Wal-Mart.
edit: **** i just agreed with cwag
A) your over 18
b) your parents let you <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I had a credit card ever since I was 16.
Games stores don't sell M rated games already anyway, because a lot of states have laws against it and more stores just have it against policy. This law doesn't do anything for when little billy gets his mom to buy GTA for him from the clerk who just refused to sell it to him 15 minutes ago.
But disregarding all that:
Is it good for the kid's personal well being? Probably.
Is it good for freedom? Definately not. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd argue that preadults have no rights to freedoms not condoned by thier parents...
I have a problem when game makers are taking flack while pornographic movies are widely available. Games are rated, and it isn't a developer's or publishers fault if someone is letting M and T rated games sell to minors, it is either the fault of the parent's or the retailers. Those are the groups that should be under the microscope here.
"Whoa, little Billy! You stop right there! You almost realized that women have BODIES under all that fabric! That's very bad for you, you would be scarred for life if you knew that!"
[EDIT:]
Porn isn't the problem. People who teach their kids that sex is wrong and should only be done with someone you love and are married to is the problem. You're confusing the kid, and you're hiding something that hurts nobody, makes people feel good and is beautiful from them.
(Sorry if that offends anyone. I'm in a pretty bad mood, and just don't feel like sugar coating anything.)
Ding ding.
It all comes down to **** parents.
"What did little Timmy want for his birthday? Ultra Skull-**** 19? SURE!"
In Australia, <i>all</i> TV, movies and video games go through the Office of Film and Literature Classification and get rated General, Parental Guidence, Mature, Mature Audience or Restricted. It's <i>not</i> voluntary, and a game can't be sold or movie shown unless it's been submitted for classification. Stuff rated MA is restricted to 15 or over (or parent\legal guardian present), R is restricted to 18. Since this is a government thing, it actually carries a lot of weight.
It's really as simple as that - everything goes through this system, and it provides a good guideline for parents to tell approximately how suitable the content is and to prevent the more questionable stuff immediately falling into the hands of ten year olds.
In Australia, <i>all</i> TV, movies and video games go through the Office of Film and Literature Classification and get rated General, Parental Guidence, Mature, Mature Audience or Restricted. It's <i>not</i> voluntary, and a game can't be sold or movie shown unless it's been submitted for classification. Stuff rated MA is restricted to 15 or over (or parent\legal guardian present), R is restricted to 18. Since this is a government thing, it actually carries a lot of weight.
It's really as simple as that - everything goes through this system, and it provides a good guideline for parents to tell approximately how suitable the content is and to prevent the more questionable stuff immediately falling into the hands of ten year olds. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Right, coming from the country where they almost banned Blue Shift for the option to "Shoot Officers"(thanks KFS).
Kinda like blaming porn company letting their kids lent porns.
Yeah that always amused me. Little Johnny can be running over hookers to get his money back after ****ing them, blowing up cars with the intention of attracting the police just so you can kill them and steal their car because it's faster which means you can kill other things faster.... That's fine. But Little Johnny sees some sex? <b>BAN THIS FILTH!</b>
Yeah that always amused me. Little Johnny can be running over hookers to get his money back after ****ing them, blowing up cars with the intention of attracting the police just so you can kill them and steal their car because it's faster which means you can kill other things faster.... That's fine. But Little Johnny sees some sex? <b>BAN THIS FILTH!</b> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, they targeted GTA for that, too. This is just new ammo to use against it.
"Whoa, little Billy! You stop right there! You almost realized that women have BODIES under all that fabric! That's very bad for you, you would be scarred for life if you knew that!"
[EDIT:]
Porn isn't the problem. People who teach their kids that sex is wrong and should only be done with someone you love and are married to is the problem. You're confusing the kid, and you're hiding something that hurts nobody, makes people feel good and is beautiful from them.
(Sorry if that offends anyone. I'm in a pretty bad mood, and just don't feel like sugar coating anything.) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you intend on proving that point, go right ahead. It doesn't take a genius to pull out the fact that you've violently oversimplified the issue to prove a point, with that kind of oversimplification I can probably make any point defendable. Most people know that abstinance is the only way to prevent unwanted pregancy or STD 100%, there is no other method as effective.
****
Dont know what stores <i>you</i> go to, maybe you should stop spending time at Wal-Mart... :p
Seriously, pretty much every store sells M rated games....except Wal-Mart. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I meant selling M rated games to kids. EBGames and Gamestop doesn't sell M rated games to kids.