Help! I Need Somebody
Crispy
Jaded GD Join Date: 2004-08-22 Member: 30793Members, Constellation
Jaded GD Join Date: 2004-08-22 Member: 30793Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">not just anybody</div> Yes that's right I'm calling on all <b>you</b> NS Mappers for advice on sections of the Mapping Guidelines for Competitive Play that can be found in the Competitive Discussion forum, via my sig.
There are a few topic titles that I've thought of, but the specifics quite frankly escape me as I haven't been near a copy of Hammer in a matter of months and I'm finding it hard to even qualify myself as a mapper. But, regardless I'm trying to do my bit for the NS competitive scene in view of the impending invasion of the feared and fearful 'newbies'. I figure that a few of them might stick around and go competitive. I figure a few things, really. I figure that with better competitive maps, the old guard might stick around for seasons to come. I figure newbies will see promise in the competitive scene. I figure we can help make this happen.
So here's an extract of the bits I need help with. The sections are at the end of the text.
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Tailoring Your Map for Competitive Play
Despite what you may have heard, the NS competitive scene is in a perpetual state of growth. This growth is perpetuated by a continuous influx of new players to the game, some of whom will later decide to take their game to the next level.
It's become so popular that there are teams from all over the globe, but typically they are polarised in two regions: Europe and the USA. But with this international fame arise problems for the competitive scene, the most notable of which is latency discrepancy. In a game as fast-paced as Natural Selection seconds count, but milliseconds count more. Milliseconds mean the difference between a Fade escaping with under 10% of his hit points or a Fade not escaping at all.
Wouldn't it be nice if there was a way to close the gap between the home and away team? To make that latency gap not so prominant? To provide more stable matchplay? Enter the humble NS mapper. Exit r_speeds, stage left, followed by a bear.
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<b>Brushwork and Architectural Economics</b>
<span style='color:white'>Input from:</span> Kouji San
<b>Textures: Downsizing ftl</b>
<span style='color:white'>Input from:</span> Lt. Gravity
<b>Sound files: What's better left unsaid?</b>
<b>Particle Systems: The real res****s of NS</b>
There are a few topic titles that I've thought of, but the specifics quite frankly escape me as I haven't been near a copy of Hammer in a matter of months and I'm finding it hard to even qualify myself as a mapper. But, regardless I'm trying to do my bit for the NS competitive scene in view of the impending invasion of the feared and fearful 'newbies'. I figure that a few of them might stick around and go competitive. I figure a few things, really. I figure that with better competitive maps, the old guard might stick around for seasons to come. I figure newbies will see promise in the competitive scene. I figure we can help make this happen.
So here's an extract of the bits I need help with. The sections are at the end of the text.
---
Tailoring Your Map for Competitive Play
Despite what you may have heard, the NS competitive scene is in a perpetual state of growth. This growth is perpetuated by a continuous influx of new players to the game, some of whom will later decide to take their game to the next level.
It's become so popular that there are teams from all over the globe, but typically they are polarised in two regions: Europe and the USA. But with this international fame arise problems for the competitive scene, the most notable of which is latency discrepancy. In a game as fast-paced as Natural Selection seconds count, but milliseconds count more. Milliseconds mean the difference between a Fade escaping with under 10% of his hit points or a Fade not escaping at all.
Wouldn't it be nice if there was a way to close the gap between the home and away team? To make that latency gap not so prominant? To provide more stable matchplay? Enter the humble NS mapper. Exit r_speeds, stage left, followed by a bear.
---
<b>Brushwork and Architectural Economics</b>
<span style='color:white'>Input from:</span> Kouji San
<b>Textures: Downsizing ftl</b>
<span style='color:white'>Input from:</span> Lt. Gravity
<b>Sound files: What's better left unsaid?</b>
<b>Particle Systems: The real res****s of NS</b>
Comments
>You can still make it look good, but making it look good using complex architecture will ultimately suck up those precious clipnodes. Not to mention that it sometimes snares a players movement. So the clip textured brushes should always be uses on pillars, support beams, pipes and anything else sucking up clipnodes. Just don't put them on the floor, since it will sink structures.
First of all to guide the player his movement arround it when walking in a hallway, it should NOT snare the player. Secondly to cut down the overall clipnodes of the map, reducing the stress on the engine.
>Vents should be tested for easy access from any direction. Some of the vent intakes in current official maps are a real pain in the butt to get into (probably already covered?)
>You can still make it look good, but making it look good using complex architecture will ultimately suck up those precious clipnodes. Not to mention that it sometimes snares a players movement. So the clip textured brushes should always be uses on pillars, support beams, pipes and anything else sucking up clipnodes. Just don't put them on the floor, since it will sink structures.
First of all to guide the player his movement arround it when walking in a hallway, it should NOT snare the player. Secondly to cut down the overall clipnodes of the map, reducing the stress on the engine.
>Vents should be tested for easy access from any direction. Some of the vent intakes in current official maps are a real pain in the butt to get into (probably already covered?) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Was that yet another snide remark at Mendasp, because the Sava vents in the Hive have been covered <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I'd left out the lip problems by accident, but now they're in. First post updated, but I won't be writing it all up until I've had enough input.
Yay for forum slowness...
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
--Scythe--
fast running map? thats a map with the lowest entity count possible, the most simplyfied architecture... in short: its a boring map <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
instead of working on concepts to "please" the competative community some people should think about giving feedback to EXISTING projects to fit the needs of most players.
besides that to please most of the competative players is like building a car that hovers without flapping <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
to this list of yours:
is this meant to a "input from this people would be nice" or did we allready commented on it? *thinks* I really cant remember anything... must be the "last weekend aftershock" XD
BTW, <i>input</i> doesn't neccessarily mean that the topic is no longer open to further input. Even if you can only think of one tiny thing, I may have forgotten to include it in my notes.
maybe you could mail me what I wrote to you, crispy, so I know if there might be something to add.
different answers from different people to the same topic (architecture for example) might be terrible interesting, especially for beginners.
Im able to add to the topics
- brushwork (detail and r_speed improvements)
- texture choice and usage
- environment and atmospheric elements (thats my favourite <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->)
however, I CANT really comment on
- gameplay and balance
- competative improvements
<!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
maybe you could mail me what I wrote to you, crispy, so I know if there might be something to add.
different answers from different people to the same topic (architecture for example) might be terrible interesting, especially for beginners.
Im able to add to the topics
- brushwork (detail and r_speed improvements)
- texture choice and usage
- environment and atmospheric elements (thats my favourite <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->)
however, I CANT really comment on
- gameplay and balance
- competative improvements
<!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Gameplay and balance is more a clan player's field of expertise, but here's what you posted about texture usage (I'll edit it out if you post a revised edition later on in this thread). Contrary to your beliefs, choosing your textures wisely can improve r_speeds and therefore lower the demand on a competitive player's system, in turn levelling the playing field just that tiny bit more.
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<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->in case anything I write beneath may sound little "self-absorbed":
my mapping experience has its roots back in 1998 when hl was released
sometimes the low r-speeds are a mistery to myself. but keep in mind that this is also connected to my compiler settings, I never compile with full settings, always the "normal" way. but I NEVER EVER experienced any problems with that.
to understand the way Im am able to create good looking architecture combined with relatively low r_speeds I will have to explain the whole procedure.
Im not one of those mappers thinking hours about a single location, more likely I drawn 2 or 3 dropdown plans with possible entrances, vents, height differences. any location I created has a purpose. to write down which elements would represent this purpose can be very helpful. I created a handful of guidelines myself to make mapping for hl easier to me:
1. creating the basic architecture
--------------------------------
thats where all the basic work is done. most people just create a box to work on with. I dont like this method. the result tends to be a square or rectangle room. even in this state I try to bring some originality into the architecture. creating floor, walls, ceiling and some additional height/lenght differences, always keeping the scaling in the eye by placing temporary player starts. its very important to think about line of sight aswell because the best opportunity to prevent your map from "r_explode" is NOW. textures are roughly placed with scaling with 1 or even higher.
2. breaking up the basics
------------------------
next step could be the more detailed texture placing. I dont want the map to look flat so I will break the walls up. placing textures is always a good start. you get ideas about how you can change your architecture.
3. advanced texturing
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if you want to have the best possible result you should work with textures carefully. place ANY texture on visible surfaces manually. that consumes a lot of time but you will have less trouble and higher speeds later on. allways try to use 1:1 scaling for textures, ergo 1-1, 0.75-0.75, 0.5-0.5 with either world or surfaces definition (manipulating solids via vertex or clipping tool messes the textures dimensions up).
4. kickass architecture
----------------------
everybody do like other looks on their maps, thats why there are so many of them there is no specific hint I can give here. except on thing: think about what excites the player. what would you like to see in a map?
question: why are your r_speeds so terible low?
---------------------------------------------
because I follow the guidelines abouve. clean architecture that fits the mesh, clearly defined standart measurements (units divisible with 2,4,6 or 8; 5 or ten VERY rarely!!!), architecture that fits the textures (not the other way round, you will run yourself in trouble), reasonable visblockers that look "natural" (not the ugly "S" routes used by many mappers to avoid high r_speeds) and sometimes I even use my brain
I dont say everybody likes or has to like my work. its all a matter of taste <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Mmm, tastes like strawberries!
contrary to MY beliefs? shure, I didnt mentioned the scaling.... ok, you got me, I forgot it. maybe its because thats something I do automatically. thats one of the most important techniques.
but texture scaling is something you can change easily later on. to change half of the map to fit the grid and brushes to use common xyz values is much more work to do.
...
(I really forgot it... cant believe it...)