What's Fun, Why Is It Fun?

Tediak · November 2002

<div class="IPBDescription">Theorize.</div> Anyone else have the observation that losing as aliens is extremely frustrating and often not fun at all, while losing as marines can be extremely fun. The opposite also applies, winning as marines seems oftentimes far too easy, and dissatisfying, while winning as aliens can be frantic and extremely fun.

I think this may have to do with the burden of command, as a marine you don't REALLY care what happens because it's not truly in your hands, while as an alien you too share some burden of what happens to your team.

Anyway, what do you think?

TychoCelchuuu · November 2002

Because losing as marines feels like you are in a movie being overrun by bugs, and you are making a desperate last stand. Losing as aliens just feels like being shot up a bunch right after spawning.

Tieom · November 2002

Part of it is due to the aliens' "Slippery slope" (Meaning, winning leads into more winning, the same for losing) that was mentioned by someone in another post.
That is, when you lose as aliens, you are basically fighting end-game enemies with beginning-game abilities. I.e. you have very little chance.
With marines, you are fighting end-game to end-game, but you get things very slowly (Since you usually only have the tower in your base). Part of the fun of losing as marines is that you are condensed so tightly that team-work becomes automatic and the commander becomes super-efficient: there are people running around welding everyone/thing without anyone asking, people do exactly what the comm tells them to, the comm can give health to anyone who needs it within seconds, etc. etc.
If the marines could pull off doing what they do when they're bottled up in the commander room throughout the entire game, they would be unstoppable.

The reason winning is dull for marines and sweet for aliens is exactly the same, marines put up a fight till the very end while aliens become a pushover.

off-topic: The last-ditch feint tactic -
When your base is being over-run, place a CC somewhere along with an observatory and get at least 1 marine out of the base alive. Have him build the CC and observatory and use distress beacon. BAM! Everyone comes back alive in the original base, where they can start rebuilding. Usually by this point all the aliens have left the room, and they very rarely set up turrets in there.

DarkSim2 · November 2002

i agree with TychoCelchuuu. when losing as marines your commander know u have lost, but he can still give u cool weapons, like the jet pack. also, i think its fun to try and outrun an onos. i like to follow it shoot at it then turn and run to see if he can catch me. one time i had a jet pack and i went out looking for an onos and found one. i shot him and started to fly back to base with him in persuit. right befor i got to base i hit a low wall, at that moment the onos proceede to make a quick snack of me. all in all tho, i thought it was pretty exciting. i was laughing the whole time. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'>

geldonyetich · November 2002

Battles basically go 4 different ways:

1. Aliens blitzkrieg marines at starting position and take them down before they can put down defence turrets.

2. Aliens grab and hold all resources, steamroll the clueless marines.

3. Marines grab and hold all resources, steamroll the clueless aliens after turreting off their other two hives.

4. Marines and aliens are both relatively good. The marines manage to hold on to one or two resources and beat the aliens to one of their hives. There's a good stalemate with lots of fighting occurs. Unfortunately, this is ultimately broken because marines start building siege turrets and slowly but surely and unstoppably advance over the rest of the map by pinning down resource and hive location with siege turrets.

This ugly scenario is usually how #4 goes:

Your usually reduced to one hive, and everywhere you go you see this:

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'>

Absolutely no escape. You have one hive, your entire team combined doesn't have the ability to take down more than one sentry turret in a frontal assault. Can't use offencive chambers to draw the fire because they have a siege cannon in place that destroys you if you try. Your trapped, the game is already over.

You try the attack the individual marines but they have HMG and heavy armor, and your puny Skulks and Lerks don't stand a chance against them unless one gets isolated and runs out of ammo.

If your really unlucky, the marines despite their massive advantage decide to advance the last few steps towards your hive by building turret forts and siege cannons. After awhile your saying, "God damn you marines, hurry up and finish us off already".

I'm thinking if they nerf siege cannons and swap Lerks weapons 2 and 3 things would be more enjoyable for a losing Alien.

Typhon · November 2002

Thats a very good point regarding the power of the two races in relation to how badly they are doing. Marines, once they've researched something, are only limited by their ability to bring in resources. If the are winning or losing they still have the same upgrades/weaponry. Aliens on the other hand, are stronger if they are winning, and weaker if they are already losing. This does present a problem, as the last 1/4 of any 'marines win' game is essentially cleanup, with no challenge for the marines, and no hope for the aliens. In one game today, as aliens, our team was able to draw out this 'cleanup' phase (only one hive remaining)for over 45min. Very boring for the marines, and kinda pointless for the aliens. We knew we couldn't win, but we didn't want to just give up. So we resorted to throwing wave after wave of skulks and lerk against HA/HMG marines, eventually taking one down every 2 minutes or so. That was what kept us in the game, being able to yell at the marines "HHAHA, your HA got killed by skulks".

ONE-ARM · November 2002

I find the marines annoying while under a poor commander or when people refuse to work in squads, its just leave base and get slaughtered. Whereas, even with a crappy and losing team on the aliens one can hide ona ceiling and drop down on a couple 'rines and have a bit of fun that way.

FlatlineUTD · November 2002

I find the game enjoyable because I'm an RTS player more than anything else. I usually have the good fortune of being Commander, which is perfect for me.

Later on in the game, when we've got control of the map, or are losing with a big stockpile of resources, I'll drop just about anything my troops want. Jetpacks, armor, whatever. I think the rest of my team finds this part enjoyable.

Barbarian · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TychoCelchuuu @ Nov 8 2002, 10:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Because losing as marines feels like you are in a movie being overrun by bugs, and you are making a desperate last stand. Losing as aliens just feels like being shot up a bunch right after spawning.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
I agree with Tycho, losing as marines, you get a big adrenaline rush as you make that last stand. It's kind of fun to keep lobbing grenades out the door, killing alien after alien but they still keep coming... It gets pretty intense when you're down to holding only half the room you start in, and it feels great to finish off an ONOS with only a light machine gun in such desperate situations. It feels good to lose as a marine, and you say "good game" afterwards, whereas with aliens you spend the last 10 minutes being forced to be a skulk with only one upgrade or a lurk, and it just feels like you lost.

sqwurl · November 2002

Yeah thats usually what happens when you lose as kharaa...siege cannons surrounded by mini turret farms if you can get out of the hive...but usually you have 2-3 HA HMG toting marines at the exits and there is no escape, then we proceed to do the following:

1. Take a deep breath

2. Bend over as far as you can

3. Kiss yer spongy brown a$$ goodbye

Fabricated · November 2002

I think losing as a marine really sucks personally...because when you lose it's always because people were stupid and REFUSE to hold that one hive you fought so hard for...I just recently lost a match because we fought like animals to get that stupid hive, and after masterfully taking the hive out with very well placed seige turrets and a HUGE group assault...the rest of them just put some turrets up and left it. Ugh.

Stue · November 2002

One point that Flatline mentioned:

The huge stockpile of resources the marines can get. The aliens cant. This way they cant even build some last desperate turret piles or somethine. Well as they cant upgrade to something senseful with only one hive anyway, it doesnt matter that much, tho. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'>

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='pudgy.gif'>

Battousaix · November 2002

You have fun when you lose as marines, because you exactly know that you already have lost when you are already cornered at the base so you can just forget everything and you can just play around until aliens destroy everything, while aliens usually get overwhelmed by marines in less than a minute being very annoying....

Twex · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>as a marine you don't REALLY care what happens because it's not truly in your hands, while as an alien you too share some burden of what happens to your team.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

that's an excellent observation

as alien it feels like WE did something wrong, as marine it feels like HE did something wrong

Jerry_111_Elend · November 2002

Yeah, losing as aliens can actually be boring sometimes.

Marines, on the other hand, losing is quite exciting, and occasionly funny.

There was this one game, when the marines were pushed back to their main base. The aliens had onos.

And then suddenly, the commander started MASS dropping mines.... And it was like:

"More mines!" "ahaha... Mines!"

Our team planted mines all over the base, 'till it looked something outta the matrix. Red beams everywhere. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

What's Fun, Why Is It Fun?

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