My question... were do we get on this list of other admins with banning lists? Oh and Vitto, It's ok by me to see my name on posts like that, Why because I know I don't cheat and I know that messups happen and that people do get upset at someone and will do this. All I say is that there needs to be a way for someone to state their case and be watched after being listed like that. As far as closing this post that's probably the best idea since this has turrned ugly and into more of a "I'm unhappy with that guy right there so I'm going to spoil his ability to have fun cause he killed me" post.
I'm not saying anyone did this but I didn't feel like going thru all these posts. But if any of you guys are going to ban these people please see proof before doing it, what if some of these guys are just putting up WonIDs of people they hate... If you are going to put someones WonID up make a Demo and put it somewhere, most ISPs have webspace so put it there and post the link so that Server Admins can check out the Demo and then ban from there.
He was an alien in "disguise" and helped the aliens by building several infantry portals and spamming teamchat.
Unfortunately I didn't take any screenshots or condumps of this guy, but one of the other players said he knew the admin and would get him banned. They can probably verify this.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Okay, I know Aurian NS servers... I will ban this 547090 wonid Guy.. THank you for telling us this lame person wonid.
This person is banned from Hukkalandias servers aswell..
Here's another moron to add to the banlist. Not only was he spamming the voice channel with music (I'd like to kill the idiot that came up with that "useful" program to play wavs), but he was also crashing users using an exploit.
As you can tell by his name alone, he is not likely one of the more intelligent people in the universe. As I told him what an idiot I thought he was, he kept saying "Shhhh, no life boy" etc, because as everyone knows, people who stay up in the AM and try to crash games on the internet and play idiotic music are the coolest people ever, and women around the world will want to have sex with them, and all of their friends realize how "kewl" they are.
LOL, I was coming in to recommend people ban the same guy: Pee Pee Boy <b>wonid</b> 277679 I remember you in the game. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Ya... you we're like the last guy to spawn when our base was run over by Onos and "three-hive-everything".
For god sake, we can all see that pee pee boy is annoying so i think you should make him banned from your server as a priority, Pee Pee Boy dont post useless posts. Its the official silent but violent ban list, not the official. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
LOL What a coincindence eh Psuedo? Thats one of the things I liked about AHL. The owner is actually compiling a hardcode banlist. Basically, those that are reported to be llamas and are proven to in fact be llamas, are added to a list that will be coded into the game, and if someone has a won ID that matches one on the banlist, they cannot play.
He was an alien in "disguise" and helped the aliens by building several infantry portals and spamming teamchat.
Unfortunately I didn't take any screenshots or condumps of this guy, but one of the other players said he knew the admin and would get him banned. They can probably verify this.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Okay, I know Aurian NS servers... I will ban this 547090 wonid Guy.. THank you for telling us this lame person wonid.
This person is banned from Hukkalandias servers aswell..<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> hmm how was he a alien in disguise?
and if he was an alien how does he build infantry portals?
We need some way to organize this. We need a list of server ops who can prove they are server ops. Give IP's send NS Guides in there and have them talk to the person and make sure that was really him, make sure his server is really a server, stable and good pings with a reasonable player limit and that it's still there the next day, that the admins aren't kicking people for no reason etc.
And then we need to make them a private password protected forum where they can share info like this just on their word. The forum would have to have some set rules like you can't suggest banning someone because they cuss since a lot of people allow cussing on thier server (myself included) and you'd have to post a description of what they did, etc. Proof would be nice, but lets face it, no system anywhere is perfect. Innocent people get convicted, you just have to do your best to prevent it.
We do need to do something though. For one, I'd like a list of people who come on servers and yell slurs, I'd like a list of people who crash server, etc. My server dumped all players twice in a row last night. I don't know why or how. All I know is it didn't crash or reboot, it just dumped everyone twice. When I logged in to see what was going on (to see if it would dump me) it was fine and it filled back up again a few hours later and nothing has happened since. I believe someone did it on purpose, but hell if I know who.
I have played on some of the servers of people who post WonID's here, if I've played on their server and it was a good server and no admin kicked me for saying a bad word or for killing too many people as a <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> then I listen to them when they post a name to be banned. Not always, and usually not if they post a list of names and ID's and say "these people all did bad stuff!" and not if they banned someone for something silly like cussing, but if I've played there and they tell me that this guy crashed their server or logged on and spammed racial slurs over the mic, or whatever, yeah I consider it.
We need something stable, something at least a little more secure. Yes, some people who don't deserve it will probably get banned. Yes sometimes people's roommates/brothers/sisters/uncle bob's really do get on their computer and do things that get those people in trouble. And yes sometimes a server admin is just gonna lie to get someone they don't like banned. But with NS guides constantly hopping from server to server seeing things and monitoring things we could probably keep a self-policing forum of people we could relatively trust when they give ID"s that should be banned.
The fact is, it doesn't do a lot to discourage jerks and racists and bigots and grief players from acting that way if all I can do is ban them from my server. There's too many others coming up too fast. And too many admins, over time, will stop paying close attention to their servers.
Look what happened to CS.
We need some kind of blacklist, if for no other reason than to at least hope to discourage a handful of people from behaving like this.
If you are looking for a centralized "Blacklist" sort of thing there is an easier way:
Just create an organization. When people notice a bad player, they can report it to the organization WITH proof. The report is then made public and people are allowed to vote if they think the person should be blacklisted or not. Once blacklisted they go into a central DB of lamuh WONIds. Then every server admin participating in this organization (their votes also count for more) can run a simple client on their machine which querys the blacklist DB occasionally to retrieve the latest list and update the bans on the server.
People can appeal bans etc.
Basically this is designed around the numerous Anti-Spam initiatives out there these days which use a very similar system.
A central site sounds like a good idea. I've banned a few wonid's from this thread, but only ones with proof and several people saying the same things. PLEASE get proof of these people doing things otherwise there's no reason to ban them. The person posting may just not like that person or only tell one side of the story.
But they jump from server to server far more often than most people. Most players find a server or two they like and stick to those few. NS Guides jump around all the time. If they jump to a server and see an abusive or hateful or just ridiculously strict admin they can pop in and say "Hey be careful how much credit you give this guys word, he doesn't seem like a very mature op".
And the reason I suggested them as the people to check out the server initially was because they are few in number, are hand picked very selectively, are doing a thankless and often irritating and frustrating job and are close to the NS team itself. All of which suggests they would be good people to trust and whose opinions are worth more than joe blow who says "Yeah this guy is fine, whatever.".
They're also the only organized group involved with NS I could think of.
If however you can come up with a better idea that would be great. It would be nice if you could, I dunno, try to help contribute to the community instead of just making sarcastic and insulting remarks to those of us putting the effort forth to try and come up with an idea to improve things.
As for those actually being helpful.
The problem with proof is that it's hard to come by. I can give you a console dump of all 10 people I have banned from my server, I can even give you the entire days worth of console input, but I can't give you anything more than that because I'm not usually IN my server when things happen. My name is listed on the MOTD (for those who see it) and my regulars know who I am anyway, so if I'm in the server behavior is usually pretty good, even beyond the behavior I require by my rules.
When things happen is when I'm not there to see and I find out about it the next day thru an email saying "This and this and this happened" I check the logs and sure enough. Or when I do a chat log review and search for various spellings of words banned on my server (slurs) and then the next time that person logs in I issue a warning, unless they have already gotten one.
So if you want to accept console logs as proof I can give you weeks worth of them, but it doesn't do much to prove I didn't just edit the crap out of them. Which brings us back to why we need people whose word we can simply trust. Proof would always be nice, but if we could just establish a password protected forum for ops we trust who have been verified to be ops, it would make things simpler.
Logs are a good thing. How do we know? It will take time to get to know eachother in essence. Although, it is rather difficult to forge logs without it being obvious that you did so. And even if you did forge them, it would take a REALLY long time to do, and not many server ops/owners have that ammount of time that they are willing to spend on getting someone banned. ESPECIALLY since they are on their own blasted server.
BAD IDEA! (Central site) Especially since you don't seem to care if people are unjustly banned. Whoever seems to be out seeking punishment should provide sufficient proof for ANY action. Also, each admin has his or her own criteria for banning.
I feel that any banning should be done in a case-by-case method.
Now suppose that a player made threats on crashing a server or other such behavior. You get tired of these twits ruining servers. Not much you can do. Especially since this mod is new. Once you start getting repeat offenders, thats when things become more of a hassel. Suggestion: Set up a personal "blacklist" on a website. No reviews, but proof or links to it on the site. Since this is your personal site, there can be no dispute over someone's WON ID.
Should there be a seperate site for banning WON IDs? I say no. Keep them on the server forum. it makes it alot easier to request an unbanning or find out why a player was banned. Also, by keeping it here, you can at least present an image of a "close-knit" community.
We do need the admins to stick together. Every server admin doing their own thing and not sharing anything will pretty much let this take the path of CS. (No offense to any CS players, but it seems that 9 out of every 10 CS players are llamas. This is my opinion, so don't get riled up.)
Keeping all the "ban requests" in one thread will create confusion. Someone may protest, but get caught up in an entirely different dispute.
_________________________________ SUMMARY
-Create a PERSONAL blacklist. People can follow suit if they wish -No more "Ban people" threads. Each ban request or report in a seperate thread. -Remeber, there is a search button for a reason. Learn to use it. -Admins have to stick together. -It will make things easier for all of you.
<!--QuoteBegin--Disturbed+Nov 20 2002, 06:26 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Disturbed @ Nov 20 2002, 06:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->BAD IDEA! (Central site) Especially since you don't seem to care if people are unjustly banned. Whoever seems to be out seeking punishment should provide sufficient proof for ANY action. Also, each admin has his or her own criteria for banning.
I feel that any banning should be done in a case-by-case method.
Now suppose that a player made threats on crashing a server or other such behavior. You get tired of these twits ruining servers. Not much you can do. Especially since this mod is new. Once you start getting repeat offenders, thats when things become more of a hassel. Suggestion: Set up a personal "blacklist" on a website. No reviews, but proof or links to it on the site. Since this is your personal site, there can be no dispute over someone's WON ID.
Should there be a seperate site for banning WON IDs? I say no. Keep them on the server forum. it makes it alot easier to request an unbanning or find out why a player was banned. Also, by keeping it here, you can at least present an image of a "close-knit" community.
We do need the admins to stick together. Every server admin doing their own thing and not sharing anything will pretty much let this take the path of CS. (No offense to any CS players, but it seems that 9 out of every 10 CS players are llamas. This is my opinion, so don't get riled up.)
Keeping all the "ban requests" in one thread will create confusion. Someone may protest, but get caught up in an entirely different dispute.
_________________________________ SUMMARY
-Create a PERSONAL blacklist. People can follow suit if they wish -No more "Ban people" threads. Each ban request or report in a seperate thread. -Remeber, there is a search button for a reason. Learn to use it. -Admins have to stick together. -It will make things easier for all of you.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't understand why its a bad idea to have a central site. The public and all the server admins get to vote if the proof/evidence given is suffecient to blacklist the player. If you want to make it more fair we could have rebuttal's from the player in question added. This is equivalent to a jury judging the facts, the basis of fair judgement.
Either way, it won't happen so don't worry <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
It could be done. Here is a CS version. <a href='http://www.csblacklist.com/' target='_blank'>http://www.csblacklist.com/</a> It is used for cheaters, but could be adapted.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->>> Large Picture, sorry I like to play on Large HL settings. ;] <a href='http://members.aol.com/goldereonbot/ns_bast0000.jpg' target='_blank'>http://members.aol.com/goldereonbot/ns_bast0000.jpg</a> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you seriously need to find an image converter...there is no reason anyone has to download a 2.5 meg BMP when you can take 2 seconds to convert to a 100kb jpeg...and resize it to 800*600
and your provider (in this case AOL) will appreciate it too.
---------
as for the rest of this. all you need to do is post who you banned, their wonid, and why you banned (with proof of offense), and all everyone else has to do is be aware that that person has done something. If you chose to ban on your server....fine. But for the people complaining about someone posting a wonid for personal grudge reasons or faking logs, we're not FORCING you to ban the person. just making you aware and that you should watch out for them
---------
Most of the time Pee Pee Boy isn't "crashing" servers. He's merely overflowing everyone. They all just drop and the server keeps right on going. It's like everyone all at once types "disconnect" in the console. It's still extremely annoying of him to do though.
<!--QuoteBegin--Brutus+Nov 21 2002, 10:32 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Brutus @ Nov 21 2002, 10:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It could be done. Here is a CS version. <a href='http://www.csblacklist.com/' target='_blank'>http://www.csblacklist.com/</a> It is used for cheaters, but could be adapted.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Woah, thats exactly what I was talking about
Down to the daemon software and everything... very cool.
Yeah if people are interested in this kind of thing we could make it happen.
Doesn't Valves Anti Cheat, Centrally log wonid's of people caught cheating ? Yes I know its not implemented yet, but when it is ... wont that solve your problem.
The other option is wonid logging using HLGuard. I'm running it on a Natural Selection Server at the moment. I can't vouch for the validity that it works properly with Natural Selection, but again its another option ?
Many of the schemes I was involved with when running cstrike usually involved an automatic script upload of wonid's from those caught cheating to a central list, followed by a download of the central list. Why not setup a scheme like this for Natural Selection ?
If you don't ban the... Unpleasent word for homosexual people, on your server, skip this.
I ban slurs of any kind, including those used for homosexual people. I'm posting the entire day's log and just the relevant section both available to pick, so up to you. If you choose to view the entire days log you will notice other uses of the word, keep reading and you will see that the uses were met with a response and the person agreed to stop.
This person, however, ask if he could use a "different" slur, which was obviously nothing more than an attempt to get away with saying it, so I kicked him, no ban. He then came back and used another slur and before I had finished typing the ban command he had used another one.
Ban or don't, your call, limited or permanent, your call. Because of his return and immediate defiance and blatant disregard for a very simple rule (I allow cussing, just not slurs) he won't be returning to my server ever.
Obviously I used word pad and it's find and replace ability to remove all references to my password. You will also notice some time sections missing, this is due to the fact that two of my most trusted and intelligent friends help me monitor so the logs aren't always coming to me, though the majority of it does as it's my server so I try to put in the most time.
<a href='http://home.swbell.net/serrin/relevant.txt' target='_blank'>Only The Relevant Portion may Be Found Here (62k)</a>
<a href='http://home.swbell.net/serrin/2002_11_21.txt' target='_blank'>The Full Days Log May Be Found Here (500k)</a>
Necro<insert non-birthday-related title here>Join Date: 2002-08-09Member: 1118Members
<!--QuoteBegin--Duck_King+Nov 18 2002, 03:38 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Duck_King @ Nov 18 2002, 03:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> As you can tell by his name alone, he is not likely one of the more intelligent people in the universe. As I told him what an idiot I thought he was, he kept saying "Shhhh, no life boy" etc, because as everyone knows, people who stay up in the AM and try to crash games on the internet and play idiotic music are the coolest people ever, and women around the world will want to have sex with them, and all of their friends realize how "kewl" they are.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ROFL! that sounds like me!...without the lame part <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--haven+Nov 21 2002, 02:20 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (haven @ Nov 21 2002, 02:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Doesn't Valves Anti Cheat, Centrally log wonid's of people caught cheating ? Yes I know its not implemented yet, but when it is ... wont that solve your problem.
The other option is wonid logging using HLGuard. I'm running it on a Natural Selection Server at the moment. I can't vouch for the validity that it works properly with Natural Selection, but again its another option ?
Many of the schemes I was involved with when running cstrike usually involved an automatic script upload of wonid's from those caught cheating to a central list, followed by a download of the central list. Why not setup a scheme like this for Natural Selection ?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> HLGuard sucks. VAC sucks more. They are both unreliavle (as in false positives, doesn't detect very well, etc.) At least HLGuard is udates more often than VAC. Any scriptkiddie can rewrite the vectors and names to make them compatable with ANY HL mod. 1 hour of coding max. If the player knows what he or she is doing, that player can also make it undecetable, throw in a few random variables, and BOOM. Undecetable cheat. And few players will suspicious.
There is no such thing as a cheat-free or a cheat-proof server. The closest you can get is with Cheating-Death. It blocks all cheats excpet the OGC wallhack. Make it required and 99% of cheaters won't even bother with your server.
As for your schemes, you will have no proof uploaded. You will basically have your server's banlist on a website. Nice to see if one is banned or not. Other players can check the blacklist to see if people they are playing with are on that list. But it does not do many server admins good. For me, banning requires solid proof.
Also, this mod is too young for the admins to know eachother well. As time goes on, you will see who is more mature and can trust, and who you can't.
While playing today ran into another fool that enjoys spamming text to the screen when he doesn't get his way. So after he was votekicked once(server had admin mod) he came back and started doing it again. So I grabbed a screenshot of status and done a condump. Unfortunatly right now I don't have anywhere to upload them. So if anyone is interested in seeing them you can just email me and I can send them to you or if anyones feeling really nice and helpful <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> could let me know of a site that allows remote posting.
Anyways his name was Hardee and his wonid is 1496118. I know just posting this isn't much since I can't post the proof. In the condump this guy said he had my wonid and was going to post it here too. So if anyone wishes to have any proof of this fool in action just email and I'll send you the screenshot and condump.
Comments
WonID: 547090
Server: Auria Pelikaista Natural Selection 2 v1.01
He was an alien in "disguise" and helped the aliens by building several infantry portals and spamming teamchat.
Unfortunately I didn't take any screenshots or condumps of this guy, but one of the other players said he knew the admin and would get him banned. They can probably verify this.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Okay, I know Aurian NS servers... I will ban this 547090 wonid Guy.. THank you for telling us this lame person wonid.
This person is banned from Hukkalandias servers aswell..
<img src='http://pages.sbcglobal.net/duck_king/dumbass1.JPG' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
As you can tell by his name alone, he is not likely one of the more intelligent people in the universe. As I told him what an idiot I thought he was, he kept saying "Shhhh, no life boy" etc, because as everyone knows, people who stay up in the AM and try to crash games on the internet and play idiotic music are the coolest people ever, and women around the world will want to have sex with them, and all of their friends realize how "kewl" they are.
I remember you in the game. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Ya... you we're like the last guy to spawn when our base was run over by Onos and "three-hive-everything".
Keep this topic open only to llama reports backed by proof, and witness testimony supporting llama reports backed by proof.
<b>Do not post llama reports without proof</b> or you're wasting everyone's time. Do not ban anyone based on llama reports without proof.
Have a nice day.
Its the official silent but violent ban list, not the official. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
WonID: 547090
Server: Auria Pelikaista Natural Selection 2 v1.01
He was an alien in "disguise" and helped the aliens by building several infantry portals and spamming teamchat.
Unfortunately I didn't take any screenshots or condumps of this guy, but one of the other players said he knew the admin and would get him banned. They can probably verify this.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Okay, I know Aurian NS servers... I will ban this 547090 wonid Guy.. THank you for telling us this lame person wonid.
This person is banned from Hukkalandias servers aswell..<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
hmm how was he a alien in disguise?
and if he was an alien how does he build infantry portals?
And then we need to make them a private password protected forum where they can share info like this just on their word. The forum would have to have some set rules like you can't suggest banning someone because they cuss since a lot of people allow cussing on thier server (myself included) and you'd have to post a description of what they did, etc. Proof would be nice, but lets face it, no system anywhere is perfect. Innocent people get convicted, you just have to do your best to prevent it.
We do need to do something though. For one, I'd like a list of people who come on servers and yell slurs, I'd like a list of people who crash server, etc. My server dumped all players twice in a row last night. I don't know why or how. All I know is it didn't crash or reboot, it just dumped everyone twice. When I logged in to see what was going on (to see if it would dump me) it was fine and it filled back up again a few hours later and nothing has happened since. I believe someone did it on purpose, but hell if I know who.
I have played on some of the servers of people who post WonID's here, if I've played on their server and it was a good server and no admin kicked me for saying a bad word or for killing too many people as a <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> then I listen to them when they post a name to be banned. Not always, and usually not if they post a list of names and ID's and say "these people all did bad stuff!" and not if they banned someone for something silly like cussing, but if I've played there and they tell me that this guy crashed their server or logged on and spammed racial slurs over the mic, or whatever, yeah I consider it.
We need something stable, something at least a little more secure. Yes, some people who don't deserve it will probably get banned. Yes sometimes people's roommates/brothers/sisters/uncle bob's really do get on their computer and do things that get those people in trouble. And yes sometimes a server admin is just gonna lie to get someone they don't like banned. But with NS guides constantly hopping from server to server seeing things and monitoring things we could probably keep a self-policing forum of people we could relatively trust when they give ID"s that should be banned.
The fact is, it doesn't do a lot to discourage jerks and racists and bigots and grief players from acting that way if all I can do is ban them from my server. There's too many others coming up too fast. And too many admins, over time, will stop paying close attention to their servers.
Look what happened to CS.
We need some kind of blacklist, if for no other reason than to at least hope to discourage a handful of people from behaving like this.
Just my two cents.
Just create an organization. When people notice a bad player, they can report it to the organization WITH proof. The report is then made public and people are allowed to vote if they think the person should be blacklisted or not. Once blacklisted they go into a central DB of lamuh WONIds. Then every server admin participating in this organization (their votes also count for more) can run a simple client on their machine which querys the blacklist DB occasionally to retrieve the latest list and update the bans on the server.
People can appeal bans etc.
Basically this is designed around the numerous Anti-Spam initiatives out there these days which use a very similar system.
But they jump from server to server far more often than most people. Most players find a server or two they like and stick to those few. NS Guides jump around all the time. If they jump to a server and see an abusive or hateful or just ridiculously strict admin they can pop in and say "Hey be careful how much credit you give this guys word, he doesn't seem like a very mature op".
And the reason I suggested them as the people to check out the server initially was because they are few in number, are hand picked very selectively, are doing a thankless and often irritating and frustrating job and are close to the NS team itself. All of which suggests they would be good people to trust and whose opinions are worth more than joe blow who says "Yeah this guy is fine, whatever.".
They're also the only organized group involved with NS I could think of.
If however you can come up with a better idea that would be great. It would be nice if you could, I dunno, try to help contribute to the community instead of just making sarcastic and insulting remarks to those of us putting the effort forth to try and come up with an idea to improve things.
As for those actually being helpful.
The problem with proof is that it's hard to come by. I can give you a console dump of all 10 people I have banned from my server, I can even give you the entire days worth of console input, but I can't give you anything more than that because I'm not usually IN my server when things happen. My name is listed on the MOTD (for those who see it) and my regulars know who I am anyway, so if I'm in the server behavior is usually pretty good, even beyond the behavior I require by my rules.
When things happen is when I'm not there to see and I find out about it the next day thru an email saying "This and this and this happened" I check the logs and sure enough. Or when I do a chat log review and search for various spellings of words banned on my server (slurs) and then the next time that person logs in I issue a warning, unless they have already gotten one.
So if you want to accept console logs as proof I can give you weeks worth of them, but it doesn't do much to prove I didn't just edit the crap out of them. Which brings us back to why we need people whose word we can simply trust. Proof would always be nice, but if we could just establish a password protected forum for ops we trust who have been verified to be ops, it would make things simpler.
BAD IDEA! (Central site) Especially since you don't seem to care if people are unjustly banned. Whoever seems to be out seeking punishment should provide sufficient proof for ANY action. Also, each admin has his or her own criteria for banning.
I feel that any banning should be done in a case-by-case method.
Now suppose that a player made threats on crashing a server or other such behavior. You get tired of these twits ruining servers. Not much you can do. Especially since this mod is new. Once you start getting repeat offenders, thats when things become more of a hassel.
Suggestion: Set up a personal "blacklist" on a website. No reviews, but proof or links to it on the site. Since this is your personal site, there can be no dispute over someone's WON ID.
Should there be a seperate site for banning WON IDs? I say no. Keep them on the server forum. it makes it alot easier to request an unbanning or find out why a player was banned. Also, by keeping it here, you can at least present an image of a "close-knit" community.
We do need the admins to stick together. Every server admin doing their own thing and not sharing anything will pretty much let this take the path of CS. (No offense to any CS players, but it seems that 9 out of every 10 CS players are llamas. This is my opinion, so don't get riled up.)
Keeping all the "ban requests" in one thread will create confusion. Someone may protest, but get caught up in an entirely different dispute.
_________________________________
SUMMARY
-Create a PERSONAL blacklist. People can follow suit if they wish
-No more "Ban people" threads. Each ban request or report in a seperate thread.
-Remeber, there is a search button for a reason. Learn to use it.
-Admins have to stick together.
-It will make things easier for all of you.
I feel that any banning should be done in a case-by-case method.
Now suppose that a player made threats on crashing a server or other such behavior. You get tired of these twits ruining servers. Not much you can do. Especially since this mod is new. Once you start getting repeat offenders, thats when things become more of a hassel.
Suggestion: Set up a personal "blacklist" on a website. No reviews, but proof or links to it on the site. Since this is your personal site, there can be no dispute over someone's WON ID.
Should there be a seperate site for banning WON IDs? I say no. Keep them on the server forum. it makes it alot easier to request an unbanning or find out why a player was banned. Also, by keeping it here, you can at least present an image of a "close-knit" community.
We do need the admins to stick together. Every server admin doing their own thing and not sharing anything will pretty much let this take the path of CS. (No offense to any CS players, but it seems that 9 out of every 10 CS players are llamas. This is my opinion, so don't get riled up.)
Keeping all the "ban requests" in one thread will create confusion. Someone may protest, but get caught up in an entirely different dispute.
_________________________________
SUMMARY
-Create a PERSONAL blacklist. People can follow suit if they wish
-No more "Ban people" threads. Each ban request or report in a seperate thread.
-Remeber, there is a search button for a reason. Learn to use it.
-Admins have to stick together.
-It will make things easier for all of you.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't understand why its a bad idea to have a central site. The public and all the server admins get to vote if the proof/evidence given is suffecient to blacklist the player. If you want to make it more fair we could have rebuttal's from the player in question added. This is equivalent to a jury judging the facts, the basis of fair judgement.
Either way, it won't happen so don't worry <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
<a href='http://members.aol.com/goldereonbot/ns_bast0000.jpg' target='_blank'>http://members.aol.com/goldereonbot/ns_bast0000.jpg</a> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you seriously need to find an image converter...there is no reason anyone has to download a 2.5 meg BMP when you can take 2 seconds to convert to a 100kb jpeg...and resize it to 800*600
and your provider (in this case AOL) will appreciate it too.
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as for the rest of this. all you need to do is post who you banned, their wonid, and why you banned (with proof of offense), and all everyone else has to do is be aware that that person has done something. If you chose to ban on your server....fine. But for the people complaining about someone posting a wonid for personal grudge reasons or faking logs, we're not FORCING you to ban the person. just making you aware and that you should watch out for them
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Most of the time Pee Pee Boy isn't "crashing" servers. He's merely overflowing everyone. They all just drop and the server keeps right on going. It's like everyone all at once types "disconnect" in the console. It's still extremely annoying of him to do though.
Woah, thats exactly what I was talking about
Down to the daemon software and everything... very cool.
Yeah if people are interested in this kind of thing we could make it happen.
Yes I know its not implemented yet, but when it is ... wont that solve your problem.
The other option is wonid logging using HLGuard. I'm running it on a Natural Selection Server at the moment. I can't vouch for the validity that it works properly with Natural Selection, but again its another option ?
Many of the schemes I was involved with when running cstrike usually involved an automatic script upload of wonid's from those caught cheating to a central list, followed by a download of the central list. Why not setup a scheme like this for Natural Selection ?
If you don't ban the... Unpleasent word for homosexual people, on your server, skip this.
I ban slurs of any kind, including those used for homosexual people. I'm posting the entire day's log and just the relevant section both available to pick, so up to you. If you choose to view the entire days log you will notice other uses of the word, keep reading and you will see that the uses were met with a response and the person agreed to stop.
This person, however, ask if he could use a "different" slur, which was obviously nothing more than an attempt to get away with saying it, so I kicked him, no ban. He then came back and used another slur and before I had finished typing the ban command he had used another one.
Ban or don't, your call, limited or permanent, your call. Because of his return and immediate defiance and blatant disregard for a very simple rule (I allow cussing, just not slurs) he won't be returning to my server ever.
Obviously I used word pad and it's find and replace ability to remove all references to my password. You will also notice some time sections missing, this is due to the fact that two of my most trusted and intelligent friends help me monitor so the logs aren't always coming to me, though the majority of it does as it's my server so I try to put in the most time.
<a href='http://home.swbell.net/serrin/relevant.txt' target='_blank'>Only The Relevant Portion may Be Found Here (62k)</a>
<a href='http://home.swbell.net/serrin/2002_11_21.txt' target='_blank'>The Full Days Log May Be Found Here (500k)</a>
-Sam
As you can tell by his name alone, he is not likely one of the more intelligent people in the universe. As I told him what an idiot I thought he was, he kept saying "Shhhh, no life boy" etc, because as everyone knows, people who stay up in the AM and try to crash games on the internet and play idiotic music are the coolest people ever, and women around the world will want to have sex with them, and all of their friends realize how "kewl" they are.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ROFL! that sounds like me!...without the lame part <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Yes I know its not implemented yet, but when it is ... wont that solve your problem.
The other option is wonid logging using HLGuard. I'm running it on a Natural Selection Server at the moment. I can't vouch for the validity that it works properly with Natural Selection, but again its another option ?
Many of the schemes I was involved with when running cstrike usually involved an automatic script upload of wonid's from those caught cheating to a central list, followed by a download of the central list. Why not setup a scheme like this for Natural Selection ?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
HLGuard sucks. VAC sucks more. They are both unreliavle (as in false positives, doesn't detect very well, etc.) At least HLGuard is udates more often than VAC. Any scriptkiddie can rewrite the vectors and names to make them compatable with ANY HL mod. 1 hour of coding max. If the player knows what he or she is doing, that player can also make it undecetable, throw in a few random variables, and BOOM. Undecetable cheat. And few players will suspicious.
There is no such thing as a cheat-free or a cheat-proof server. The closest you can get is with Cheating-Death. It blocks all cheats excpet the OGC wallhack. Make it required and 99% of cheaters won't even bother with your server.
As for your schemes, you will have no proof uploaded. You will basically have your server's banlist on a website. Nice to see if one is banned or not. Other players can check the blacklist to see if people they are playing with are on that list. But it does not do many server admins good. For me, banning requires solid proof.
Also, this mod is too young for the admins to know eachother well. As time goes on, you will see who is more mature and can trust, and who you can't.
way. So after he was votekicked once(server had admin mod) he came back and started doing it again.
So I grabbed a screenshot of status and done a condump. Unfortunatly right now I don't have anywhere to
upload them. So if anyone is interested in seeing them you can just email me and I can send them to you or
if anyones feeling really nice and helpful <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> could let me know of a site that allows remote posting.
Anyways his name was Hardee and his wonid is 1496118. I know just posting this isn't much since I can't post the proof. In the condump this guy said he had my wonid and was going to post it here too. So if anyone
wishes to have any proof of this fool in action just email and I'll send you the screenshot and condump.