QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
[quote name='Haze' date='Aug 20 2007, 10:09 AM' post='1644760'] I never said the farming was as fast as another spec, but you don't come out with a negative balance unless you absolutely suck. I'm also <i>still</i> prot spec on my warrior, and have farmed as holy spec on my paladin several times. First hand experience also works in my favor. You don't come out to a negative balance.[/quote] Well, I'm pretty sure I don't suck(Undergeared Fury back when I was consistently raiding, and was 1st-3rd each raid), and in my prot days I would either make negative, or little profit. Usually, I could get more money running around mining than farming mobs for whatever reason(sadly, Blacksmithing is the most expensive profession evar(well, according to someone who did the math, 2nd to Enchanting, but both of those were like 10x that of the 3rd place)), but neither way was enough to be efficient by any means.
Not all guilds have an endless pool to draw hunters, mages and warlocks from. Rogues are suitable DPS if you're looking for a pure DPS slot to fill. They don't suck. Also, the shaman's ability to boost other players' DPS isn't a joke, I don't know where you're getting that from. It is a viable way to get into raids, because they improve the output of other players by a noticeable amount. [/quote]
I'm not saying Rogues suck, or Shaman. They're great DPS. But Shaman don't get into raids as easily as other straight-DPS classes, because people see it as a "weak point" that could be better utilized by another class that isn't just buffing others. I realize Shaman can be awesome, believe me, but they just aren't seen that way by and large. And as to not having an endless pool: Yeah, see, if you're having to justify your point by saying "But they'll take you if no one else is around!", you just kinda defeated your own point.
<!--QuoteBegin-Quan+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Quan)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->and in my prot days I would either make negative, or little profit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I just don't see how you would get a negative profit. I never did. I would always turn out enough profit to feel content with. I never had 'little' profit either.
<!--QuoteBegin-Quan+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Quan)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm not saying Rogues suck, or Shaman. They're great DPS. But Shaman don't get into raids as easily as other straight-DPS classes, because people see it as a "weak point" that could be better utilized by another class that isn't just buffing others.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think people see it as a weak point at all. I think people see it as an opportunity for the shaman to deal decent DPS and provide some significant buffs for his group, such as windfury, strength of earth, mana stream, etc.
1 DPS enchancement shaman is enough for the raid, the groups that need shaman totem buffs can be filled by healer shamans which are much more important
so yeah, how 'bout that Lich King? He sure is wrathful, I hear. How's this expansion? More of the same? Well, of course it's more of the same, but is it worth playing? What's new and cool? one thing's for damn sure: I'm never hardcore raiding again =p
They introduced a new profession, it's called Threadcromancy. >_>
Yeah, it's more of the same. If you have enjoyed WoW before, you'll probably enjoy it again. If you quit because you ran out of stuff to do, there's plenty of new stuff to do. If you quit because the game isn't really your style, it's probably still not your style.
They've streamlined a lot of stuff - no more seperate spell power and healing power, for instance. Everything just has spell power now, with healing spells simply getting more benefit out of the same amount. Spell and physical hit rating are just hit rating now, same for crit rating. Talents have been modified, removed and added.
They learned from the Burning Crusade launch: People didn't think it was very fun to replace their old top-level gear with various green quest rewards in the first few levels in Outland. If your character has just hit 70 (or 69, or 68) when going to Northrend, you'll continue to acquire new, useful gear at a steady pace. If you've been at level 70 for a while and acquired progressively better gear, it'll last you longer on the way to level 80. You don't see all your epics go down the drain right away.
What's new and cool? Well, raids have 10- and 25-man versions now, so it's possible to raid far and wide with smaller, tight-knit groups. Don't ask me about details, I don't know 'em. They've got a vehicle system, having you ride various ground-based and airborne vehicles, beast, giants etc. in various quests. It's slightly hit-and-miss, but overall fun. Tends to switch the pace around.
New and not cool is that you'll lose access to your flying mount while you're in Northrend. Come level 77 you can buy "Cold Weather Flying," allowing you to fly again. It's probably a way to make sure that they can herd you through the new content in an orderly fashion, but it still feels like a slap in the face. It's no biggie if you've more or less gone straight to Northrend at level 70 like I did with my mage, but my druid had been flying around for ages, and suddenly I'm inexplicably grounded. Not fun.
My major fear was that the game would suffer from Fallout-syndrome: Desolate wasteland everywhere. Just frozen instead of irradiated. I was pleasantly surprised. Having lived in northern Europe my entire life, Howling Fjord and Grizzly Hills feel extremely familiar. Homely even.
But long story short: If you've previously enjoyed the game and feel like coming back, do so. You probably won't be disappointed. However, if you had major grievances with the game design, you're best off looking elsewhere. Love it or hate it, it's still WoW.
good review type thing. Pretty much just what I wanted to know. I always liked WoW, but I tired myself out on hardcore raiding. Tempted to buy the expansion just to get to 80 and experience the new content, but I can't see myself farming PvP or PvE raiding ever again, cuz I've done both to death, and yet without those, there's probably not much point to buying the expansion in the first place =p
I always wished I could find the perfect casual raiding guild, with no strict attendance requirement, and mostly competent players, but it just never happened. Always had to choose from super hardcore WoW-as-second-job guilds or guilds who could barely clear Karazhan...
maybe after I get sick of Warhammer I'll give it a whirl for the heck of it. Would be cool to see what new abilities my toons all have in their expanded talent trees and such.
My temptation to check out WoW died a long time ago. It seems the more games I play the more I thirst for a game about adventure and fun rather than stats, grinding and an ever expanding chain of 'phat lewt'.
I have this crazy vision of a game you could drop someone who doesn't play games in front of and they'd be fine because it's intuitive: it all makes immediate sense. You can use all your abilities as you wish dealing with it's own strengths and weaknesses (like powerful attacks that leave you wide open after or take a bit to fire off), no sudden stoppages because a graphical bar slapped across the screen is empty and no 3000 odd buttons stuck on it either. You'd never have to stop to check a talent calculator or 'plan out' your character because if there is advancement it's dealt with in the background for you by your actions or whatever. Enemies would be unique and interesting instead of a single AI type or two that only differ in hitpoints and abilities that they use in the same way as every other monster. Something you could describe in detail in the context of the game and it'd actually read like an interesting fantasy novel instead of "Jemma the level 39 Rogue crits the Wargh for 300 damage". Not exactly Lord of the Rings is it? :3
Maybe that's all just me though? :p
I dunno... I sometimes wonder if I'm not burnt out on this stuff these days :/
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited November 2008
Probably TLDR;
Problem is that mmorpg are not designed by gamers, but by big companies who want teh moneys. also the reason that everything is pre-sripted/pre-fab/pre-engineered, a godlike choice in terms of game-designing and expanding the very game with content. Fast and IKEA like solution. But a sucky design to stop the grind or the seemingly repetative nature of these games with monster that have new models/skins but are internally the same with more hitpoints.
The design choice is of course a good one, but the way it is implemented is quite unimaginative. You could take this system and program add something like realtime dodging/coutering/pouncing/angle of attack* etc.. You know like Prince of persia or Assasins creed. This way skill and talent are the elemental factors in determining your survivability. Not your "skills" or "talents" <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Screw terms like "endgame" content for "highlevel" gamers. If I have the fps like skills to take down a slow but hard hitting big ass meany (player or npc), I sure as hell want to be able to make the choice to go out and kick his ass or die trying, throwing terms like level/hitpoints/taleltpoints/stats etc.. right out the window into a big pile of poo.
WoW is casual that can be played hardcore by memorising each spell to counter with. But I am still waiting for the day that the realtime combat system actually means something in a Knights and Magic mmorpg kind of world (not the game)
*with angle of attack I mean, that attacking a big armored knight head on with you assasin knife you get knocked down pretty quick. But if you sidestep a little and attack him from an angle instead of head on, you could do some serious damage. Because he is slower to react and not as quick on his feet. But then again he could do a horizontal sweeping motion with his big ass sword to surprise you instead (balancing balancing, like any game of course)
Or for a mage to throw a fireball to the left of you, you get spash damage where as if it were comming right at you, you could dodge it or try and deflect it with shield or weapon. Think combat between the TF2 soldier and pyro.
Ah well, we'll see. Also Im not dissing the current mmorpg gameplay as I did enjoy it when I played it. But heck, where are the days when gamedevelopers actually were inovative isntead of <i>pulling old cows out of ditches</i> and dressing them up in pretty graphics <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> (which can of course be fun, but innovation like, oh I dunno Super Mario Bros3/world, Sonic (well it was new <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />), Doom, tetris like games, Zelda series, Rainbow6 series, final fantasy, Splintercell and metalgear, Populous, Half-Life(stoyline/scripted events?), Homeworld, Dungeon Keeper, Natural-Selection, GTA, Battlefield 1942, fallout..., dune2 -> C&C/starcraf/warcraft -> ground control -> company of heroes (there are probably a few more that were added newlike stuff) is something we need!
<!--quoteo(post=1694699:date=Nov 30 2008, 01:23 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kouji_San @ Nov 30 2008, 01:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1694699"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You could take this system and program add something like realtime dodging/coutering/pouncing/angle of attack* etc.. You know like Prince of persia or Assasins creed. This way skill and talent are the elemental factors in determining your survivability. Not your "skills" or "talents" <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The reason this is not done is that with currently available technology it is simply impossible. Even with massively simplified movement/fighting mechanics like in WoW or Eve-online, you still require huge server farms to keep up with the sheer volume of number crunching needed to keep track of a few thousand people in real-time. Not to mention the bandwidth usage and costs of running an operation like that.
So while it is an interesting idea, at this point in time it is effectively impossible.
I think Warhammer is moving the genre forward with their large number of positional skills and spells. Lots of cone-of-fire aoe's, and spells that toss other people away or suck them in. Throwing people into lava never gets old...
<!--quoteo(post=1694713:date=Nov 30 2008, 10:35 PM:name=Xyth)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Xyth @ Nov 30 2008, 10:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1694713"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The reason this is not done is that with currently available technology it is simply impossible. Even with massively simplified movement/fighting mechanics like in WoW or Eve-online, you still require huge server farms to keep up with the sheer volume of number crunching needed to keep track of a few thousand people in real-time. Not to mention the bandwidth usage and costs of running an operation like that.
So while it is an interesting idea, at this point in time it is effectively impossible.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Planetside managed it. No, the game doesn't have the best track record, but later in its life it was quite playable and largely lag-free. We have the technology. But not the six million dollars, apparently.
<!--quoteo(post=1694713:date=Nov 30 2008, 10:35 PM:name=Xyth)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Xyth @ Nov 30 2008, 10:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1694713"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The reason this is not done is that with currently available technology it is simply impossible. Even with massively simplified movement/fighting mechanics like in WoW or Eve-online, you still require huge server farms to keep up with the sheer volume of number crunching needed to keep track of a few thousand people in real-time. Not to mention the bandwidth usage and costs of running an operation like that.
So while it is an interesting idea, at this point in time it is effectively impossible.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> no, the reason this isn't done is because it doesn't cater to the masses.
<!--quoteo(post=1694719:date=Nov 30 2008, 06:07 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Nov 30 2008, 06:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1694719"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Planetside managed it. No, the game doesn't have the best track record, but later in its life it was quite playable and largely lag-free. We have the technology. But not the six million dollars, apparently.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Purely by definition, yes planetside is an mmofps. Ill give you that. However the FPS portion is laughable at best. Lack of meaningful hitboxes, lack of meaningful ballistic physics, lack of meaningful movement... It's an FPS in the most basic definition of the word. The MMO part is pretty stretched as well, considering getting more then 100 people in the same area will murder the servers.
Align: Then explain how a skill based FPS such as CSS or Halo 3 have hundreds of thousands of players.
What I'm saying is that it's going to be awhile before we see any kind of MMO with meaningful skill/twitch input. Is it technically possible? Sure. In imagination land we could have a game where every 30 players are controlled by their own server allowing for massive conflicts of stupid complexity, but the start-up funds would just be too steep. So instead we get simplistic MMOs with the illusion of complexity.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1694713:date=Nov 30 2008, 10:35 PM:name=Xyth)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Xyth @ Nov 30 2008, 10:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1694713"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The reason this is not done is that with currently available technology it is simply impossible. Even with massively simplified movement/fighting mechanics like in WoW or Eve-online, you still require huge server farms to keep up with the sheer volume of number crunching needed to keep track of a few thousand people in real-time. Not to mention the bandwidth usage and costs of running an operation like that.
So while it is an interesting idea, at this point in time it is effectively impossible.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> sigh, I knew someone was gonnah post the obvious "where not there yet" stuff... <img src="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/style_images/1/folder_post_icons/icon6.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Here have a gorge <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/pudgy.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::gorge::" border="0" alt="pudgy.gif" />
actually xyth, considering how heavily instanced modern MMOs tend to be I don't think it's all that impractical. Sure if you were to do a joined overworld ala WoW but not many seem to have bothered with that model (If it was easy then all the games would probably try it :p ). Keep in mind that modern FPS games give you up to 32 players and while I could be wrong did I hear battlefield was capable of a whopping 64?
As for not having mass appeal Align? How do we know? Nobody has even tried outside of maybe planetside which was too early (needed a pretty hefty machine and MMOs weren't the massive market they are now so it was never destined to pull in massive numbers) :p I doubt I'm the only person who gets a few levels into MMOs and goes "god how many abilities do I need? Talents? aww heck I don't want to pick through this stuff. What happened to just playing the game?"
I'm not advocating mass counterstrike here personally or FPS or anything like that but a more 'active' and 'natural' combat system where player skill is an inherent factor without being overwhelming would be nice. Something that had less numbers than every single class of mathematics you endured at school combined would be pleasant too.
Now if you excuse me I'll go back to suffering another bout of PSO withdrawl :p
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1694699:date=Nov 30 2008, 10:23 AM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kouji_San @ Nov 30 2008, 10:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1694699"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Probably TLDR; Problem is that mmorpg are not designed by gamers, but by big companies who want teh moneys. also the reason that everything is pre-sripted/pre-fab/pre-engineered, a godlike choice in terms of game-designing and expanding the very game with content. Fast and IKEA like solution. But a sucky design to stop the grind or the seemingly repetative nature of these games with monster that have new models/skins but are internally the same with more hitpoints. The design choice is of course a good one, but the way it is implemented is quite unimaginative. You could take this system and program add something like realtime dodging/coutering/pouncing/angle of attack* etc.. You know like Prince of persia or Assasins creed. This way skill and talent are the elemental factors in determining your survivability. Not your "skills" or "talents" <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Screw terms like "endgame" content for "highlevel" gamers. If I have the fps like skills to take down a slow but hard hitting big ass meany (player or npc), I sure as hell want to be able to make the choice to go out and kick his ass or die trying, throwing terms like level/hitpoints/taleltpoints/stats etc.. right out the window into a big pile of poo. WoW is casual that can be played hardcore by memorising each spell to counter with. But I am still waiting for the day that the realtime combat system actually means something in a Knights and Magic mmorpg kind of world (not the game)
*with angle of attack I mean, that attacking a big armored knight head on with you assasin knife you get knocked down pretty quick. But if you sidestep a little and attack him from an angle instead of head on, you could do some serious damage. Because he is slower to react and not as quick on his feet. But then again he could do a horizontal sweeping motion with his big ass sword to surprise you instead (balancing balancing, like any game of course)
Or for a mage to throw a fireball to the left of you, you get spash damage where as if it were comming right at you, you could dodge it or try and deflect it with shield or weapon. Think combat between the TF2 soldier and pyro. Ah well, we'll see. Also Im not dissing the current mmorpg gameplay as I did enjoy it when I played it. But heck, where are the days when gamedevelopers actually were inovative isntead of <i>pulling old cows out of ditches</i> and dressing them up in pretty graphics <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> (which can of course be fun, but innovation like, oh I dunno Super Mario Bros3/world, Sonic (well it was new <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />), Doom, tetris like games, Zelda series, Rainbow6 series, final fantasy, Splintercell and metalgear, Populous, Half-Life(stoyline/scripted events?), Homeworld, Dungeon Keeper, Natural-Selection, GTA, Battlefield 1942, fallout..., dune2 -> C&C/starcraf/warcraft -> ground control -> company of heroes (there are probably a few more that were added newlike stuff) is something we need!
<b>Bullfrog where areth thou!</b> Probably TLDR;<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited November 2008
Nah, I do like the rpg parts. In terms of you play a roll in a game that is connected to the character/class you play, which in turn pushes you into a role (roleplaying <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />). This is why I actually play the games.
I just don't want to hide behind silly things that force me to run away from someone higher level. I think this "safe" approach to what a mmorpg is, is actually what made me quit and just simply has to go.
Good:<ul><li>Doing quests with a party/ or solo</li><li>Being forced into a role you pick from either the start or grow into during gameplay</li></ul>Bad:<ul><li>levels (1 shot a lowlevel without any problem), I want danger for the longtime players. Sure the longer you play the richer you get and the better stuff you get, but I still want to have an opotunity to outclass these highlevel players/well equiped players in terms of pure combat skill, if it just so happens to be that I'm a better player/warrior</li><li>Amount of talents/skills based on level...Bring this back to a few skills you can have at any give time (more to choose from as you go along and levelup/get better stuff). And you can pick from your available/unlocked skills at an armory or magic school to use in an instance/pvp/worldpvp or give a fireworks show in town (heck I don't know like Gandalf the grey?)</li><li>HP/mana pool that grows as you levelup... wtf is that about... Sure better armor/defense spells can reduce damage. But just keep the Hp/mana at 100% (different maximum for each class of course and small increase for enchants?)</li></ul>I think the best approach to this was guildwars, but heck I don't like the game for not being open world like WoW for instance... But guildwars was something like this: You pick a few talents/skills to use in an instance and levels do not really matter... And you can earn new skills (to be more adaptive) as you play the game...
I know I'm kicking against a large central pillar of what MMorpg games are based on, but heck <b>innovation</b> is what makes games evolve, time to tear down this safe cocoon and make mmorpg better and with better I mean more interaction for everyone! (and stop adding more and more and more buttons to the interface <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />)
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1694742:date=Nov 30 2008, 08:33 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kouji_San @ Nov 30 2008, 08:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1694742"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Nah, I do like the rpg parts. In terms of you play a roll in a game that is connected to the character/class you play, which in turn pushes you into a role (roleplaying <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />). This is why I actually play the games.
I just don't want to hide behind silly things that force me to run away from someone higher level. I think this "safe" approach to what a mmorpg is, is actually what made me quit and just simply has to go.
Good:<ul><li>Doing quests with a party/ or solo</li><li>Being forced into a role you pick from either the start or grow into during gameplay</li></ul>Bad:<ul><li>levels (1 shot a lowlevel without any problem), I want danger for the longtime players. Sure the longer you play the richer you get and the better stuff you get, but I still want to have an opotunity to outclass these highlevel players/well equiped players in terms of pure combat skill, if it just so happens to be that I'm a better player/warrior</li><li>Amount of talents/skills based on level...Bring this back to a few skills you can have at any give time (more to choose from as you go along and levelup/get better stuff). And you can pick from your available/unlocked skills at an armory or magic school to use in an instance/pvp/worldpvp or give a fireworks show in town (heck I don't know like Gandalf the grey?)</li><li>HP/mana pool that grows as you levelup... wtf is that about... Sure better armor/defense spells can reduce damage. But just keep the Hp/mana at 100% (different maximum for each class of course and small increase for enchants?)</li></ul>I think the best approach to this was guildwars, but heck I don't like the game for not being open world like WoW for instance... But guildwars was something like this: You pick a few talents/skills to use in an instance and levels do not really matter... And you can earn new skills (to be more adaptive) as you play the game...
I know I'm kicking against a large central pillar of what MMorpg games are based on, but heck <b>innovation</b> is what makes games evolve, time to tear down this safe cocoon and make mmorpg better and with better I mean more interaction for everyone! (and stop adding more and more and more buttons to the interface <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1694743:date=Dec 1 2008, 05:54 AM:name=Quaunaut)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Quaunaut @ Dec 1 2008, 05:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1694743"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->so you don't like RPGs<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hmm, not sure here... But didn't I just answer that very question with the first sentance <img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/wtf.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<!--quoteo(post=1694729:date=Dec 1 2008, 02:12 AM:name=Xyth)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Xyth @ Dec 1 2008, 02:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1694729"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Purely by definition, yes planetside is an mmofps. Ill give you that. However the FPS portion is laughable at best. Lack of meaningful hitboxes, lack of meaningful ballistic physics, lack of meaningful movement... It's an FPS in the most basic definition of the word. The MMO part is pretty stretched as well, considering getting more then 100 people in the same area will murder the servers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I do disagree.
Yes, the game lacks "meaningful" hitboxes in that players and vehicles don't take locational damage. But take a game like TF2: To the majority of classes, there is no locational damage. Natural Selection had no locational damage either. I'd call neither of those games "basic."
Lack of meaningful ballistic physics? I have no idea what you talk about. Even modern games frequently use hitscan weapons (again, TF2 makes for a good example), which sacrifice ballistic realism for performance. Planetside went the other way. Every weapon (except shotguns) fired projectiles with a finite movement speed. Even a sniper had to lead moving targets at long distances to take bullet flight time into account. Contrary to what MOST FPS games would have you believe, no projectile moves at infinite speed. If you think the game had no ballistics, you could have tried gunning a tank just ONCE and you would have known better.
Lack of meaningful movement? What does that even mean? You could run forward and backward. You could strafe from side to side. You had mouselook. You could jump and crouch. You could drive various vehicles which drastically increased your means of movement. What are you asking for?
The MMO part isn't stretched either. Yes, I've heard horror stories about beta and the early days after launch. I wasn't there for those. Maybe you weren't there for the later days, when I played? Continents supported up to 499 players each when I played, up to 133 players from each of the three sides. Only when the vast majority of a fully populated continent congregated in the same area (such as around a base) did lag really become an issue. A hundred people in the same area wasn't even noticeable, performance-wise. Have you tried being in Stormwind when there's a couple hundred people there? Lag city, my friend. All MMOs start struggling when too many people pile into too small a space, and Planetside wasn't worse than the others.
I'm not even trying to defend Planetside as a game. I know that horrible design choices were made. And maybe it was unplayably laggy in its earlier days. But technology-wise, they made improvements. They DID get an MMOFPS up and running. We HAVE the technology. It CAN be done, but nobody does it. The commercial disaster that is Planetside is probably a good chunk of the reason for that. "What, you want to make an MMOFPS? Like Planetside? And you want US to finance it?" But there you have it. TECHNOLOGY is no excuse. Planetside came out half a decade ago. The technology has only gotten better.
If an MMOFPS can't be done, it's because nobody can come up with a working design. Or because they can't get financial backing for it. Or because they can't get their ideas properly implemented. But it's NOT because the technology isn't there.
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
@ Align: You are correct. I agree completely. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
@ Geminosity: Herein lies the MMO Developer Holy Grail. Where they produce a game so instanced that effectively it's not an MMO, and in fact manage to convince other people they can run 'Instance Servers' for their MMO, and you continue to pay a monthly subscription fee, eventually reaching the state where we were with FPS before Steam, only you now pay per month. <i>Geeeeeennnnius</i>.
@ lolfighter / Xyth: The technology exists and it could be done, however Align is right, no, Planetside wasn't a good FPS by any stretch of the imagination. You can go download it today and die merrily at the bottom of a tower to someone who saw you outside 30 seconds ago. I only did it a few months ago. You probably should also get a room and just get the tension released, or something. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
What's the acronym for inverse tl;dr, where you have a lot to say, but can't summon the energy to type it out properly?
<!--quoteo(post=1694802:date=Dec 1 2008, 09:50 PM:name=Shockwave)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Shockwave @ Dec 1 2008, 09:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1694802"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What's the acronym for inverse tl;dr, where you have a lot to say, but can't summon the energy to type it out properly?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
Yes I am.
I never said the farming was as fast as another spec, but you don't come out with a negative balance unless you absolutely suck. I'm also <i>still</i> prot spec on my warrior, and have farmed as holy spec on my paladin several times. First hand experience also works in my favor. You don't come out to a negative balance.[/quote]
Well, I'm pretty sure I don't suck(Undergeared Fury back when I was consistently raiding, and was 1st-3rd each raid), and in my prot days I would either make negative, or little profit. Usually, I could get more money running around mining than farming mobs for whatever reason(sadly, Blacksmithing is the most expensive profession evar(well, according to someone who did the math, 2nd to Enchanting, but both of those were like 10x that of the 3rd place)), but neither way was enough to be efficient by any means.
Not all guilds have an endless pool to draw hunters, mages and warlocks from. Rogues are suitable DPS if you're looking for a pure DPS slot to fill. They don't suck. Also, the shaman's ability to boost other players' DPS isn't a joke, I don't know where you're getting that from. It is a viable way to get into raids, because they improve the output of other players by a noticeable amount.
[/quote]
I'm not saying Rogues suck, or Shaman. They're great DPS. But Shaman don't get into raids as easily as other straight-DPS classes, because people see it as a "weak point" that could be better utilized by another class that isn't just buffing others. I realize Shaman can be awesome, believe me, but they just aren't seen that way by and large. And as to not having an endless pool: Yeah, see, if you're having to justify your point by saying "But they'll take you if no one else is around!", you just kinda defeated your own point.
I just don't see how you would get a negative profit. I never did. I would always turn out enough profit to feel content with. I never had 'little' profit either.
<!--QuoteBegin-Quan+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Quan)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm not saying Rogues suck, or Shaman. They're great DPS. But Shaman don't get into raids as easily as other straight-DPS classes, because people see it as a "weak point" that could be better utilized by another class that isn't just buffing others.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think people see it as a weak point at all. I think people see it as an opportunity for the shaman to deal decent DPS and provide some significant buffs for his group, such as windfury, strength of earth, mana stream, etc.
Yeah, it's more of the same. If you have enjoyed WoW before, you'll probably enjoy it again. If you quit because you ran out of stuff to do, there's plenty of new stuff to do. If you quit because the game isn't really your style, it's probably still not your style.
They've streamlined a lot of stuff - no more seperate spell power and healing power, for instance. Everything just has spell power now, with healing spells simply getting more benefit out of the same amount. Spell and physical hit rating are just hit rating now, same for crit rating. Talents have been modified, removed and added.
They learned from the Burning Crusade launch: People didn't think it was very fun to replace their old top-level gear with various green quest rewards in the first few levels in Outland. If your character has just hit 70 (or 69, or 68) when going to Northrend, you'll continue to acquire new, useful gear at a steady pace. If you've been at level 70 for a while and acquired progressively better gear, it'll last you longer on the way to level 80. You don't see all your epics go down the drain right away.
What's new and cool? Well, raids have 10- and 25-man versions now, so it's possible to raid far and wide with smaller, tight-knit groups. Don't ask me about details, I don't know 'em.
They've got a vehicle system, having you ride various ground-based and airborne vehicles, beast, giants etc. in various quests. It's slightly hit-and-miss, but overall fun. Tends to switch the pace around.
New and not cool is that you'll lose access to your flying mount while you're in Northrend. Come level 77 you can buy "Cold Weather Flying," allowing you to fly again. It's probably a way to make sure that they can herd you through the new content in an orderly fashion, but it still feels like a slap in the face. It's no biggie if you've more or less gone straight to Northrend at level 70 like I did with my mage, but my druid had been flying around for ages, and suddenly I'm inexplicably grounded. Not fun.
My major fear was that the game would suffer from Fallout-syndrome: Desolate wasteland everywhere. Just frozen instead of irradiated. I was pleasantly surprised. Having lived in northern Europe my entire life, Howling Fjord and Grizzly Hills feel extremely familiar. Homely even.
But long story short: If you've previously enjoyed the game and feel like coming back, do so. You probably won't be disappointed. However, if you had major grievances with the game design, you're best off looking elsewhere. Love it or hate it, it's still WoW.
I always wished I could find the perfect casual raiding guild, with no strict attendance requirement, and mostly competent players, but it just never happened. Always had to choose from super hardcore WoW-as-second-job guilds or guilds who could barely clear Karazhan...
maybe after I get sick of Warhammer I'll give it a whirl for the heck of it. Would be cool to see what new abilities my toons all have in their expanded talent trees and such.
I have this crazy vision of a game you could drop someone who doesn't play games in front of and they'd be fine because it's intuitive: it all makes immediate sense. You can use all your abilities as you wish dealing with it's own strengths and weaknesses (like powerful attacks that leave you wide open after or take a bit to fire off), no sudden stoppages because a graphical bar slapped across the screen is empty and no 3000 odd buttons stuck on it either. You'd never have to stop to check a talent calculator or 'plan out' your character because if there is advancement it's dealt with in the background for you by your actions or whatever. Enemies would be unique and interesting instead of a single AI type or two that only differ in hitpoints and abilities that they use in the same way as every other monster.
Something you could describe in detail in the context of the game and it'd actually read like an interesting fantasy novel instead of "Jemma the level 39 Rogue crits the Wargh for 300 damage". Not exactly Lord of the Rings is it? :3
Maybe that's all just me though? :p
I dunno... I sometimes wonder if I'm not burnt out on this stuff these days :/
Problem is that mmorpg are not designed by gamers, but by big companies who want teh moneys. also the reason that everything is pre-sripted/pre-fab/pre-engineered, a godlike choice in terms of game-designing and expanding the very game with content. Fast and IKEA like solution. But a sucky design to stop the grind or the seemingly repetative nature of these games with monster that have new models/skins but are internally the same with more hitpoints.
The design choice is of course a good one, but the way it is implemented is quite unimaginative. You could take this system and program add something like realtime dodging/coutering/pouncing/angle of attack* etc.. You know like Prince of persia or Assasins creed. This way skill and talent are the elemental factors in determining your survivability. Not your "skills" or "talents" <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Screw terms like "endgame" content for "highlevel" gamers. If I have the fps like skills to take down a slow but hard hitting big ass meany (player or npc), I sure as hell want to be able to make the choice to go out and kick his ass or die trying, throwing terms like level/hitpoints/taleltpoints/stats etc.. right out the window into a big pile of poo.
WoW is casual that can be played hardcore by memorising each spell to counter with. But I am still waiting for the day that the realtime combat system actually means something in a Knights and Magic mmorpg kind of world (not the game)
*with angle of attack I mean, that attacking a big armored knight head on with you assasin knife you get knocked down pretty quick. But if you sidestep a little and attack him from an angle instead of head on, you could do some serious damage. Because he is slower to react and not as quick on his feet. But then again he could do a horizontal sweeping motion with his big ass sword to surprise you instead (balancing balancing, like any game of course)
Or for a mage to throw a fireball to the left of you, you get spash damage where as if it were comming right at you, you could dodge it or try and deflect it with shield or weapon. Think combat between the TF2 soldier and pyro.
Ah well, we'll see. Also Im not dissing the current mmorpg gameplay as I did enjoy it when I played it. But heck, where are the days when gamedevelopers actually were inovative isntead of <i>pulling old cows out of ditches</i> and dressing them up in pretty graphics <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> (which can of course be fun, but innovation like, oh I dunno Super Mario Bros3/world, Sonic (well it was new <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />), Doom, tetris like games, Zelda series, Rainbow6 series, final fantasy, Splintercell and metalgear, Populous, Half-Life(stoyline/scripted events?), Homeworld, Dungeon Keeper, Natural-Selection, GTA, Battlefield 1942, fallout..., dune2 -> C&C/starcraf/warcraft -> ground control -> company of heroes (there are probably a few more that were added newlike stuff) is something we need!
<b>Bullfrog where areth thou!</b>
Probably TLDR;
Sure is Black War Bear around here!
The reason this is not done is that with currently available technology it is simply impossible. Even with massively simplified movement/fighting mechanics like in WoW or Eve-online, you still require huge server farms to keep up with the sheer volume of number crunching needed to keep track of a few thousand people in real-time. Not to mention the bandwidth usage and costs of running an operation like that.
So while it is an interesting idea, at this point in time it is effectively impossible.
So while it is an interesting idea, at this point in time it is effectively impossible.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Planetside managed it. No, the game doesn't have the best track record, but later in its life it was quite playable and largely lag-free. We have the technology. But not the six million dollars, apparently.
So while it is an interesting idea, at this point in time it is effectively impossible.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
no, the reason this isn't done is because it doesn't cater to the masses.
Purely by definition, yes planetside is an mmofps. Ill give you that. However the FPS portion is laughable at best. Lack of meaningful hitboxes, lack of meaningful ballistic physics, lack of meaningful movement... It's an FPS in the most basic definition of the word. The MMO part is pretty stretched as well, considering getting more then 100 people in the same area will murder the servers.
Align: Then explain how a skill based FPS such as CSS or Halo 3 have hundreds of thousands of players.
What I'm saying is that it's going to be awhile before we see any kind of MMO with meaningful skill/twitch input. Is it technically possible? Sure. In imagination land we could have a game where every 30 players are controlled by their own server allowing for massive conflicts of stupid complexity, but the start-up funds would just be too steep. So instead we get simplistic MMOs with the illusion of complexity.
So while it is an interesting idea, at this point in time it is effectively impossible.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
sigh, I knew someone was gonnah post the obvious "where not there yet" stuff... <img src="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/style_images/1/folder_post_icons/icon6.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Here have a gorge <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/pudgy.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::gorge::" border="0" alt="pudgy.gif" />
Keep in mind that modern FPS games give you up to 32 players and while I could be wrong did I hear battlefield was capable of a whopping 64?
As for not having mass appeal Align? How do we know? Nobody has even tried outside of maybe planetside which was too early (needed a pretty hefty machine and MMOs weren't the massive market they are now so it was never destined to pull in massive numbers) :p
I doubt I'm the only person who gets a few levels into MMOs and goes "god how many abilities do I need? Talents? aww heck I don't want to pick through this stuff. What happened to just playing the game?"
I'm not advocating mass counterstrike here personally or FPS or anything like that but a more 'active' and 'natural' combat system where player skill is an inherent factor without being overwhelming would be nice. Something that had less numbers than every single class of mathematics you endured at school combined would be pleasant too.
Now if you excuse me I'll go back to suffering another bout of PSO withdrawl :p
Sure is Black War Bear around here!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How does it feel to be a <b>SELLOUT</b>, monkfish? Does it feel good?
Is there one ounce of shame or guilt in there?
You disgust me.
Problem is that mmorpg are not designed by gamers, but by big companies who want teh moneys. also the reason that everything is pre-sripted/pre-fab/pre-engineered, a godlike choice in terms of game-designing and expanding the very game with content. Fast and IKEA like solution. But a sucky design to stop the grind or the seemingly repetative nature of these games with monster that have new models/skins but are internally the same with more hitpoints.
The design choice is of course a good one, but the way it is implemented is quite unimaginative. You could take this system and program add something like realtime dodging/coutering/pouncing/angle of attack* etc.. You know like Prince of persia or Assasins creed. This way skill and talent are the elemental factors in determining your survivability. Not your "skills" or "talents" <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Screw terms like "endgame" content for "highlevel" gamers. If I have the fps like skills to take down a slow but hard hitting big ass meany (player or npc), I sure as hell want to be able to make the choice to go out and kick his ass or die trying, throwing terms like level/hitpoints/taleltpoints/stats etc.. right out the window into a big pile of poo.
WoW is casual that can be played hardcore by memorising each spell to counter with. But I am still waiting for the day that the realtime combat system actually means something in a Knights and Magic mmorpg kind of world (not the game)
*with angle of attack I mean, that attacking a big armored knight head on with you assasin knife you get knocked down pretty quick. But if you sidestep a little and attack him from an angle instead of head on, you could do some serious damage. Because he is slower to react and not as quick on his feet. But then again he could do a horizontal sweeping motion with his big ass sword to surprise you instead (balancing balancing, like any game of course)
Or for a mage to throw a fireball to the left of you, you get spash damage where as if it were comming right at you, you could dodge it or try and deflect it with shield or weapon. Think combat between the TF2 soldier and pyro.
Ah well, we'll see. Also Im not dissing the current mmorpg gameplay as I did enjoy it when I played it. But heck, where are the days when gamedevelopers actually were inovative isntead of <i>pulling old cows out of ditches</i> and dressing them up in pretty graphics <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> (which can of course be fun, but innovation like, oh I dunno Super Mario Bros3/world, Sonic (well it was new <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />), Doom, tetris like games, Zelda series, Rainbow6 series, final fantasy, Splintercell and metalgear, Populous, Half-Life(stoyline/scripted events?), Homeworld, Dungeon Keeper, Natural-Selection, GTA, Battlefield 1942, fallout..., dune2 -> C&C/starcraf/warcraft -> ground control -> company of heroes (there are probably a few more that were added newlike stuff) is something we need!
<b>Bullfrog where areth thou!</b>
Probably TLDR;<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think what your problem is
Is that you don't like RPGs
And don't realize that an MMORPG is still an RPG.
I just don't want to hide behind silly things that force me to run away from someone higher level. I think this "safe" approach to what a mmorpg is, is actually what made me quit and just simply has to go.
Good:<ul><li>Doing quests with a party/ or solo</li><li>Being forced into a role you pick from either the start or grow into during gameplay</li></ul>Bad:<ul><li>levels (1 shot a lowlevel without any problem), I want danger for the longtime players. Sure the longer you play the richer you get and the better stuff you get, but I still want to have an opotunity to outclass these highlevel players/well equiped players in terms of pure combat skill, if it just so happens to be that I'm a better player/warrior</li><li>Amount of talents/skills based on level...Bring this back to a few skills you can have at any give time (more to choose from as you go along and levelup/get better stuff). And you can pick from your available/unlocked skills at an armory or magic school to use in an instance/pvp/worldpvp or give a fireworks show in town (heck I don't know like Gandalf the grey?)</li><li>HP/mana pool that grows as you levelup... wtf is that about... Sure better armor/defense spells can reduce damage. But just keep the Hp/mana at 100% (different maximum for each class of course and small increase for enchants?)</li></ul>I think the best approach to this was guildwars, but heck I don't like the game for not being open world like WoW for instance... But guildwars was something like this: You pick a few talents/skills to use in an instance and levels do not really matter... And you can earn new skills (to be more adaptive) as you play the game...
I know I'm kicking against a large central pillar of what MMorpg games are based on, but heck <b>innovation</b> is what makes games evolve, time to tear down this safe cocoon and make mmorpg better and with better I mean more interaction for everyone! (and stop adding more and more and more buttons to the interface <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />)
I just don't want to hide behind silly things that force me to run away from someone higher level. I think this "safe" approach to what a mmorpg is, is actually what made me quit and just simply has to go.
Good:<ul><li>Doing quests with a party/ or solo</li><li>Being forced into a role you pick from either the start or grow into during gameplay</li></ul>Bad:<ul><li>levels (1 shot a lowlevel without any problem), I want danger for the longtime players. Sure the longer you play the richer you get and the better stuff you get, but I still want to have an opotunity to outclass these highlevel players/well equiped players in terms of pure combat skill, if it just so happens to be that I'm a better player/warrior</li><li>Amount of talents/skills based on level...Bring this back to a few skills you can have at any give time (more to choose from as you go along and levelup/get better stuff). And you can pick from your available/unlocked skills at an armory or magic school to use in an instance/pvp/worldpvp or give a fireworks show in town (heck I don't know like Gandalf the grey?)</li><li>HP/mana pool that grows as you levelup... wtf is that about... Sure better armor/defense spells can reduce damage. But just keep the Hp/mana at 100% (different maximum for each class of course and small increase for enchants?)</li></ul>I think the best approach to this was guildwars, but heck I don't like the game for not being open world like WoW for instance... But guildwars was something like this: You pick a few talents/skills to use in an instance and levels do not really matter... And you can earn new skills (to be more adaptive) as you play the game...
I know I'm kicking against a large central pillar of what MMorpg games are based on, but heck <b>innovation</b> is what makes games evolve, time to tear down this safe cocoon and make mmorpg better and with better I mean more interaction for everyone! (and stop adding more and more and more buttons to the interface <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
so you don't like RPGs
Hmm, not sure here... But didn't I just answer that very question with the first sentance <img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/wtf.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I do disagree.
Yes, the game lacks "meaningful" hitboxes in that players and vehicles don't take locational damage. But take a game like TF2: To the majority of classes, there is no locational damage. Natural Selection had no locational damage either. I'd call neither of those games "basic."
Lack of meaningful ballistic physics? I have no idea what you talk about. Even modern games frequently use hitscan weapons (again, TF2 makes for a good example), which sacrifice ballistic realism for performance. Planetside went the other way. Every weapon (except shotguns) fired projectiles with a finite movement speed. Even a sniper had to lead moving targets at long distances to take bullet flight time into account. Contrary to what MOST FPS games would have you believe, no projectile moves at infinite speed. If you think the game had no ballistics, you could have tried gunning a tank just ONCE and you would have known better.
Lack of meaningful movement? What does that even mean? You could run forward and backward. You could strafe from side to side. You had mouselook. You could jump and crouch. You could drive various vehicles which drastically increased your means of movement. What are you asking for?
The MMO part isn't stretched either. Yes, I've heard horror stories about beta and the early days after launch. I wasn't there for those. Maybe you weren't there for the later days, when I played? Continents supported up to 499 players each when I played, up to 133 players from each of the three sides. Only when the vast majority of a fully populated continent congregated in the same area (such as around a base) did lag really become an issue. A hundred people in the same area wasn't even noticeable, performance-wise. Have you tried being in Stormwind when there's a couple hundred people there? Lag city, my friend. All MMOs start struggling when too many people pile into too small a space, and Planetside wasn't worse than the others.
I'm not even trying to defend Planetside as a game. I know that horrible design choices were made. And maybe it was unplayably laggy in its earlier days. But technology-wise, they made improvements. They DID get an MMOFPS up and running. We HAVE the technology. It CAN be done, but nobody does it. The commercial disaster that is Planetside is probably a good chunk of the reason for that. "What, you want to make an MMOFPS? Like Planetside? And you want US to finance it?"
But there you have it. TECHNOLOGY is no excuse. Planetside came out half a decade ago. The technology has only gotten better.
If an MMOFPS can't be done, it's because nobody can come up with a working design. Or because they can't get financial backing for it. Or because they can't get their ideas properly implemented. But it's NOT because the technology isn't there.
@ Geminosity: Herein lies the MMO Developer Holy Grail. Where they produce a game so instanced that effectively it's not an MMO, and in fact manage to convince other people they can run 'Instance Servers' for their MMO, and you continue to pay a monthly subscription fee, eventually reaching the state where we were with FPS before Steam, only you now pay per month. <i>Geeeeeennnnius</i>.
@ lolfighter / Xyth: The technology exists and it could be done, however Align is right, no, Planetside wasn't a good FPS by any stretch of the imagination. You can go download it today and die merrily at the bottom of a tower to someone who saw you outside 30 seconds ago. I only did it a few months ago. You probably should also get a room and just get the tension released, or something. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
What's the acronym for inverse tl;dr, where you have a lot to say, but can't summon the energy to type it out properly?
"Meh" :3