Buying a new PC
Merkaba
Digital Harmony Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 22Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester
Digital Harmony Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 22Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester
<div class="IPBDescription">Help appreciated!</div>Hi all,
I'm finally seeking to get hold of a new PC to replace my current 5 year old beast. He's a bit senile in his old age, missing most of his teeth and when faced against some of the newer foes of the gaming market (prey, Oblivion, Doom3) he tends to wheeze and cough up blood.
It's served me well and that it even runs Doom3 at all is somewhat impressive.
So anyway, I'm looking for a dual-core PC now with at least 1 Gb of RAM. Naturally I want something with staying power, but mostly I want to be able to run games such as those listed about (and Half-life 2 naturally) with some gusto. The thing is, I have no idea where to start with buying systems today.
I'm considering going with AMD this time around, as I have been with Intel for a while and feel a change of winds is due. Also, for no particular reason, I would like to purchase an ATI board rather than nVidia. I've got my eye on some processors already; what I really would like is any help as to where to buy my kit from, if you think I should wait until the new year for prices to fall, and what things I should look out for or be wary of.
I'm interested in UK sales sites that offer cheaper but reliable PCs that are put together before sending, but if anyone can recommend a site that does good deals per-item that would be just as good! (and actually, I find putting together a PC is quite fun and rewarding).
My budget is preferably between £400 - £500 pounds for everything except a sound card, monitor, keyboard, mouse, speakers...etc. With that in mind I'm thinking I should wait until the next year to get the system I'm hoping for, but as I previously mentioned, I have no idea what goes on in PC sales anymore. Will there be a significant price drop?
I have already had cyberpowerpc.co.uk recommended to me, which does seem like a good site (save their lack of cases that don't look like they're designed for space travel) but am interested in other peoples experiences and suggestions also. Please help me! It's going to a good cause <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
I'm finally seeking to get hold of a new PC to replace my current 5 year old beast. He's a bit senile in his old age, missing most of his teeth and when faced against some of the newer foes of the gaming market (prey, Oblivion, Doom3) he tends to wheeze and cough up blood.
It's served me well and that it even runs Doom3 at all is somewhat impressive.
So anyway, I'm looking for a dual-core PC now with at least 1 Gb of RAM. Naturally I want something with staying power, but mostly I want to be able to run games such as those listed about (and Half-life 2 naturally) with some gusto. The thing is, I have no idea where to start with buying systems today.
I'm considering going with AMD this time around, as I have been with Intel for a while and feel a change of winds is due. Also, for no particular reason, I would like to purchase an ATI board rather than nVidia. I've got my eye on some processors already; what I really would like is any help as to where to buy my kit from, if you think I should wait until the new year for prices to fall, and what things I should look out for or be wary of.
I'm interested in UK sales sites that offer cheaper but reliable PCs that are put together before sending, but if anyone can recommend a site that does good deals per-item that would be just as good! (and actually, I find putting together a PC is quite fun and rewarding).
My budget is preferably between £400 - £500 pounds for everything except a sound card, monitor, keyboard, mouse, speakers...etc. With that in mind I'm thinking I should wait until the next year to get the system I'm hoping for, but as I previously mentioned, I have no idea what goes on in PC sales anymore. Will there be a significant price drop?
I have already had cyberpowerpc.co.uk recommended to me, which does seem like a good site (save their lack of cases that don't look like they're designed for space travel) but am interested in other peoples experiences and suggestions also. Please help me! It's going to a good cause <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
Comments
And yeah, definitely go with ATI if you can afford a high-end card. For a mid-range card, you'd be better off with nVidia.
The only advice I have right now is that, as far as processors go, the Intel Core 2 Duo in pretty much dominating in terms of performance. Granted, only by a small amount.
And yeah, definitely go with ATI if you can afford a high-end card. For a mid-range card, you'd be better off with nVidia.
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DS vs PSP
ATI vs nVidia
Intel vs AMD
PS3 vs XBOX360
When will people stop discussing pointless things? ATI/nVidia & Intel/AMD are even more pointless than the other two, as they're all constantly surpassing each other (usually by "taking turns" if you get my point).
Also Merkaba: as for ram, keep an eye out for dual packs of 1gig each, you can usually get corsair 2*1gb ddr2 pretty cheap. It's (imo) a huge diff vs 1gig.
DS vs PSP
ATI vs nVidia
Intel vs AMD
PS3 vs XBOX360
When will people stop discussing pointless things? ATI/nVidia & Intel/AMD are even more pointless than the other two, as they're all constantly surpassing each other (usually by "taking turns" if you get my point).
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Uh. You're putting words into my mouth. He was asking for advice, and I told him who the current leaders were as far as performance/price goes. If AMD were leading right now, I'd happily recommend AMD to him. Same with nVidia (In fact, I DID recommend them if he's looking for a mid-range card).
Relax.
Oh dear, please keep the nvidia vs ati discussion out of here, the man wants recommendations for a pc, not what vendor is better.
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Isn't it a discussion about the fact that we AREN'T debating about the two card manufactuerers?
Also, CForrestor, I've never heard of someone being able to recommend pc parts without at least mentioning a few brands, so I hardly think you did anything wrong here.
The new quad core AMD range of processors are scheduled for release mid-2007. Also, DX10 cards would be more readily available at that time due to the release of Vista.
Purchasing a PC now would not be wise, in my opinion if you want something with staying power.
Edit: Also, if you have not heard, ATi and AMD have merged. They are currently developing an integrated CPU/GPU system dubbed "Fusion".
( mine is at 2.6ghz just on air alone. )
If you dont want an expensive card buy a nVidia PCI-E x16 7600GS 512mb ( around 140 dollars )
I can play doom3, quake4, call of duty 2, ect all on full/high quality settings AA and runs perfectly at res at 1024x768
Good sir, If I were you, I would wait until the middle of next year before purchasing a new system.
The new quad core AMD range of processors are scheduled for release mid-2007. Also, DX10 cards would be more readily available at that time due to the release of Vista.
Purchasing a PC now would not be wise, in my opinion if you want something with staying power.
Edit: Also, if you have not heard, ATi and AMD have merged. They are currently developing an integrated CPU/GPU system dubbed "Fusion".
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Thanks for the tip - I was also possibly considering an upgrade. At this rate I think i'll wait untill i'm done uni.
While we're at it (though this isn't really on topic), does anyone know if there would be static electricity problems with using rubber gloves when assembling the thing? I've got ridiculously sweaty hands and I don't want to break the stuff with that.
I'm actually in a similar position at the moment in terms of needing a new computer. Is it actually going to make that difference that new quad-core stuff is coming out for those of us who aren't going to buy the most expensive, cutting-edge stuff? The fastest duel-core stuff is still very expensive.
While we're at it (though this isn't really on topic), does anyone know if there would be static electricity problems with using rubber gloves when assembling the thing? I've got ridiculously sweaty hands and I don't want to break the stuff with that.
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I'm pretty sure that's leaning towards a bad idea. Although thin cloth gloves would probably yield the same results you're looking for without static risks. And for the cheapo solution, grab stuff through the front of your shirt.
Oh, and random tidbit for those in this thread still shopping for parts. I'd never pay any heed to someone saying "wait for feature x that'll come out in # months." There's always one of those features right around the corner.
I'm pretty sure that's leaning towards a bad idea. Although thin cloth gloves would probably yield the same results you're looking for without static risks. And for the cheapo solution, grab stuff through the front of your shirt.
Oh, and random tidbit for those in this thread still shopping for parts. I'd never pay any heed to someone saying "wait for feature x that'll come out in # months." There's always one of those features right around the corner.
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Aye, but DX10 support isn't just another X feature. Its going to be around at least for a couple of years.
DS vs PSP
ATI vs nVidia
Intel vs AMD
PS3 vs XBOX360
When will people stop discussing pointless things? ATI/nVidia & Intel/AMD are even more pointless than the other two, as they're all constantly surpassing each other (usually by "taking turns" if you get my point).
Also Merkaba: as for ram, keep an eye out for dual packs of 1gig each, you can usually get corsair 2*1gb ddr2 pretty cheap. It's (imo) a huge diff vs 1gig.
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Are you a corsair fanboy, huh?!
Oh, and random tidbit for those in this thread still shopping for parts. I'd never pay any heed to someone saying "wait for feature x that'll come out in # months." There's always one of those features right around the corner.
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Yeah, this is good advice. If you need a new system now, buy one now. Waiting a couple of weeks for a new mobo or gfx card is fine, but waiting six months isn't. By the time vista is out and that dissapears as an excuse to wait, there will be a new cpu, chipset or gpu on the horizon.
Buy your pc at the price/performance curve that suits your budget. I used to future proof my systems, but it generally is a waste of money unless you really like to stay on the cutting edge.
One component I can't recommend enough is a WD raptor drive. You pay over the odds in terms of GB/$, but what you gain in performance makes it very worthwhile. If you have the money, buy two and raid them. If you're stuck for beans, then buy an 80GB raptor and use it as your system disk, with a slower SATA drive as your data/games drive. You can save all your disk intensive projects on the raptor and reap the performance benefits where appropriate. ( I compile NS on my raptor, and it reduces the build time by about 30% vs my normal 7200rpm sata disk )
Thanks again!
format:
computer part: price (in euros!) model name / link to dutch price comparison site
(pardon the dutch site)
GFX: 230 MSI GeForce 7900 GTO 512MB DDR3 (PCI-e, 2x DVI) NX7900GTO-T2D512E <a href="http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/144710/MSI-GeForce-7900-GTO-512MB-DDR3-(PCI-e-2x-DVI)-NX7900GTO-T2D512E-prijzen.html" target="_blank">http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/144710/MSI-...2E-prijzen.html</a>
CASE: 123,90 Antec p180 <a href="http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/138811/Antec-Performance-One-P180B-(ATX-Geen-PSU-Zwart)-prijzen.html" target="_blank">http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/138811/Ante...t)-prijzen.html</a>
PSU: 84,5 Be Quiet! Straight Power BQT E5-500W, 500W (ATX12V 2.2) <a href="http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/146245/Be-Quiet!-Straight-Power-BQT-E5-500W-500W-(ATX12V-2.2)-prijzen.html" target="_blank">http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/146245/Be-Q...2)-prijzen.html</a>
MOBO: 170 <a href="http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/139171/Asus-P5B-Deluxe-P965-(ATX-PCI-e-Sound-LAN-SATA-II-RAID-1394)-prijzen.html" target="_blank">http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/139171/Asus...4)-prijzen.html</a>
CPU: 290 Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 (S775, 2x2.4GHz, 4MB, 1066MHz FSB, Boxed)
DRIVES: 138,95 Western Digital Raptor WD740ADFD, 73GB (10000rpm, SATA, 16MB)
RAM:215 <a href="http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/115873/1GB-x-2-(2GB)-PC4200-DDR2-CL4-(Corsair-VS2GBKIT533D2)-prijzen.html" target="_blank">http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/115873/1GB-...2)-prijzen.html</a>
Notes:
- the raptor hdd might be a bit over the top, you could easily do with a less expensive (and larger) SATA drive.
- you better wait until january, prices will have dropped, especially for the 8800 <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
- I heard the 7900 GTO isn't that well available
Although I've never specifically tried a raptor drive. I do want to mention that RAID0 is <i><b>awesome</b></i> for performance.
I keep all my important stuff backed up to another drive, and my RAID0 array of 4 medium sized drives keeps my system loading files extremely quickly and gives me 1.2TB of total storage.
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I'm pretty sure that's leaning towards a bad idea. Although thin cloth gloves would probably yield the same results you're looking for without static risks. And for the cheapo solution, grab stuff through the front of your shirt.
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I've tried cloth gloves in the past and unfortunately it just doesn't work (the sweat soaks right through - it's that bad at times).
Don't they use rubber gloves in the labs\fatories\whatever where they manufacture these components, when they need to handle them? I was thinking that since rubber's an insulator it might be safe because it would prevent any static charge flowing from me into the components. I'm no expert, so I don't know if there's any accuracy in that theory.
(sorry for the bump, I forgot that I'd posted in here)
I've tried cloth gloves in the past and unfortunately it just doesn't work (the sweat soaks right through - it's that bad at times).
Don't they use rubber gloves in the labs\fatories\whatever where they manufacture these components, when they need to handle them? I was thinking that since rubber's an insulator it might be safe because it would prevent any static charge flowing from me into the components. I'm no expert, so I don't know if there's any accuracy in that theory.
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I'm basing my opinion on it being a bad idea on memories of balloons + hair, and glass + rubber. I don't actually know.
In labs and whatnot they probably use a special kind of latex or something. But I know what you mean.
What I do know from first-hand experience is that a static discharge can <b>royally pwn</b> your parts. So better to be safe than sorry and do some actual research with regards to rubber.
<a href="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=010&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=200049515075&rd=1&rd=1" target="_blank">http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...p;rd=1&rd=1</a>
My only concern is how it doesn't list things like fans & PSUs - I assume it comes with them, though - if not, they're not that expensive. I like the case <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
The GFX card I will probably sell & hopefully replace with an ATI Radeon X1950 PRO.
My alternatives so far are cyberpowerpc.co.uk - which seems very good but also a touch expensive.
dabs.com - I can buy individual components here, also expensive
dell.com - I know, I know...however my brother can get discount Dell PCs - the hard part is finding one I actually want.
If you get to choose your parts Dells are not bad. Its the cheap prebuilt ones that kinda are weak. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
I finally turned to eBay in my hunt, and found a PC setup that seems to be exactly what I want for a cheap price.
<a href="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=010&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=200049515075&rd=1&rd=1" target="_blank">http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...p;rd=1&rd=1</a>
My only concern is how it doesn't list things like fans & PSUs - I assume it comes with them, though - if not, they're not that expensive. I like the case <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
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R.E. That link, What video card does it actually use? It just says it's got "256 bits" and "Pure video technology". No mention of how much ram it has or even which model it is.
Another factor you should consider is if that mobo/CPU can actually USE DDR2 ram to it's fullest extent. Two gigs is pretty much the standard when it comes to memory nowdays. Picking up a matched pair of sticks and running them dual-channel is a big thing.
Also, 200gigs of hard drive? Eww... It doesn't even mention how much cache it has. I'd be picking up two 250 gig SATAs with 16 meg cache. 250 gig drives are at the sweet spot of gig per buck at the moment here in Australia.
As for dell, no discount is big enough.
All the intel fanboys were raving about this "Intel core 2 duo" thing a few weeks back. Might be something worth looking into.
--Scythe--
Thanks everyone for your comments & suggestions! I have selected and purchased my new system, and shall be with me some time in the next week.
For a period of time I was hoping that I would be able to get a mega Dell discount, as my brother works at Reading University as a systems admin. Turns out that for an Intel core duo e6300 (1.83Ghz) system, that retails at £620, I could get a £20 discount. Big deal!!! ho ho. So I turned my back on Dell, again, and turned to cyberpowered.co.uk.
Then I turned my back on them too, due to various reasons; partially because they still don't have any non-space faring PC cases, mostly that I just couldn't seem to get the system that I needed. So I finally turned to my old friend, Dabs.com, and felt a pang of excitement as it meant that, same as 5 years ago, I would be building my own PC again.
So I ended up getting:
Intel Core Duo E6600 (2.4Ghz, 4Mb Cache)<a href="http://www.dabs.com/productview.aspx?Quicklinx=44HD&CategorySelectedId=11147&PageMode=1&NavigationKey=11147" target="_blank">*</a>
Corsair DDR II RAM, 2 x 1Gbs 800Mhz, PC2-6400 <a href="http://www.dabs.com/ProductView.aspx?Quicklinx=43N8&CategorySelectedId=11150&PageMode=1&NavigationKey=11150,4294959239&InMerch=1" target="_blank">*</a>
A motherboard that is reviewed as being very good but not great for overclocking, which is fine by me as it's quite cheap, and I'm not too comfortable with OCing. I can't link that because I've forgotten what it is, and I've been locked out of my dabs account for 24 hours due to me trying to sign in too many times (oops)
<a href="http://www.dabs.com/ProductView.aspx?Quicklinx=3SPV&CategorySelectedId=11145&PageMode=1&NavigationKey=11145,50882&InMerch=1" target="_blank">The sexiest case I could find on dabs</a> This apparently is designed for effecient air flow and sound dampening, but above all and perhaps most importantly, it looks like the monolith from Space Oddesdy 2001's caucasian cousin. (Note: I didn't actually buy this just because I like the look; it got great reviews and all-round just seems awesome for the price)
A 400W PSU and <a href="http://www.dabs.com/productview.aspx?Quicklinx=3WF6&CategorySelectedId=11154&PageMode=1&NavigationKey=11154,50473,40970000,42240000" target="_blank">250Gb Western Digital HD</a>.
It is NOT too late to change items if anyone thinks I've made a mistake somewhere, but I don't plan on spending any more money than I have already unless an extra £10 somewhere makes all the difference, which I doubt.
I shall be putting off buying a new GFX card, and using the SFX and monitor from my current PC. I researched every component online and took some time settling on those components, and I am very excited to put it all together and see just how good it is!
The system I have been using for the past 5 years is:
2 x 1Ghz Pentium III processors.
1Gb RAM, the slower type in 2001 (I'll have to open the case to find out what it is exactly)
60Gbs HD space, across two drives.
Various GFX cards, most recent is a Geforce 5200 which I bought because my old ATI card went kaput.
CUV4XD motherboard (as mentioned, dual processor supports)
Now considering that it can run Half-Life 2 at full detail and still be playable, I think it's done very well and it was a good investment at the time. However, with me wanting to move to Source mapping & other things, I believe it has had its day and will from here on in be used to benchmark my maps. Before dismantling it and looting it of its CD drive and sound card (I just this moment realised that I won't be able to loot the GFX card, as I need a PCI Express card not AGP), I would like to run a system speed benchmark on it to compare with my new system when it arrives. Any suggestions?
It's so nice to think that just ONE CORE of my new processor will be more than 2x the speed of my current dual processor system. I'm not sure I can really comprehend how fast it will be, until I get to use it. I am so excited!
Thanks again all! I would probably have ended up going with AMD had I not asked for your help, but I think I will be very glad for going with Intel.
AMD 5000+
Corsair DDR2 6400/800...was originally gonna get the CL5 one but apparently they've now also got an identical version released with CL4...which is way better. Only question is whether it'll actually be stable or not, but I think it's a risk worth taking - specially as I'm not really into OC'ing.
ATI Sapphire Radeon X1950 Pro...yep, a midrange card, but IMO a smart buy since DX10 is just around the corner and it'd be a stupid buy to get a top-end DX9 card...and I'm not really a Nvidia fan either. And besides, when DX10 ATI cards WILL come out, the price for this card will drop even further, so I might as well get a second one really cheap and run'em in Crossfire - which for this particular card finally has been updated to that of what SLI has...and even beyond <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Seagate Barracuda 320GB HD, 16MB cache...yummy enough.
Mainboard - it's actually an SLI board since I stupidly enough mixed Crossfire and SLI up - but on the other hand, if I ever decide to go with Nvidia cards, then I can just use this one instead...but in the meantime I'll eventually get a second MB with the proper chipset for Crossfire...in either case, this was a really stupid move of me since I got a tad too eager I guess <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
750W powersupply to run everything - as I'll probably get additional HD's, second GFX card and whatnot else...yum!
750W powersupply to run everything - as I'll probably get additional HD's, second GFX card and whatnot else...yum!
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Don't choose a powersupply solely by its wattage. That 750W powersupply could be delivering crappy amperage on the 12V rail(s). Here, take a look at <a href="http://shsc.info/PowerSupplyGuide/" target="_blank">this</a>.
I have to recommend <a href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817139001" target="_blank">this one</a> if you think a 520W one will do, or <a href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817139002" target="_blank">this one</a> if you've got your heart set on something higher than 600W. They were designed specifically with high-end computers in mind, and have <i>three</i> 12V rails putting out 18A each.
[EDIT:] Not to mention that 750W is ridiculous overkill, even if you add more harddrives and a second video card. Most computers these days still use less than 400-450W at maximum load. I would go with the 520W model, personally.