Stuck issue with slopes

pSyk0mAn

<div class="IPBDescription">change it already</div>I still play plenty of maps where I get sometimes stuck at the transition between slope and upper level. That's especially annoying as bunnyhopping skulk, blinking fade or onos because you loose speed.

You can easily build the slope and the upper surface (or at least the first units of it) as one brush in the editor due to the convex shape to avoid this issue.

Why don't mappers do that? Don't they know or are they too lazy?
I solved a lot of stuck issues in my complex outdoor map pt_highlands with merging convex surfaces to one brush. That's of course more work in some cases but in ns it should be worth it even more!?

Kouji_San

It could also be the cause of the cliptype used. Simple and Precise will fix this issue, but as you said some mappers create slopes like this:

2 seperate brushes, which can cause problems if the angle of the slope is to steep:
__
[]_\

instead of using 1 brush:
__
|__\

Excuse the ASCI art <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />

pSyk0mAn

Yeah, that's what I mean. I still experience this issue in veil and eclipse, e.g.

What do you mean with clip-type? Is that related to the newest compile tools by cagey?
Is this going to fix those issues every time? That means it would be even easier to fix the stuck spots.

ShenTraX

shouldda dumped this in the 'Bug Reports' forum....

Kouji_San

It's a different compile parameneter of the clip hulls, which clip the players ingame. Precise is the newest and should fix a lot of issues and result in an overall smaller amount of clipnodes in a map.

I personally use simple, because precise is causing problems for me (invisible walls and non solid walls). And has more clipnodes then simple.

I tested both thougroughly, simple is in some areas better and other areas slightly worse. But overall they are pretty similar. Add to this the fact that simple creates even less clipnodes I chose the best allrounder (which precise could be if it worked properly <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />)

I think the official maps are compiled using precise, however I can't be sure of this... I'm also not sure if it can fix this problem by simply recompiling the maps with precise...

BigD

Remember, we're working with a 10 year old game engine here too. As kouji alluded too, one compile setting can create invisible walls and holes, and another can cause stickiness. I've had one map I had to use normalized because neither simple or precise worked very well for me and another map the precise setting works decently. So no, no setting fixes every problem, every time.

If you want to complain about specific maps, go to the bug reports forum, and in there is a map bug section where you can mention specific stuck spots.

pSyk0mAn

Remember, I told exactly how you can prevent those stuck issues by using the proper brushwork.
I didn't come up with the compile tools option and was just curious wether the tools really could fix this because I haven't used the latest versions.

I complain about all maps where you can find this issue and am still asking why mappers just don't use proper brush work to fix this because it seems to me, that some don't even know about how this issue arrises in the first place or don't care about it due to the extra work.

Kouji_San

Compile tools parameter "could" fix these isues ^^ emphasis on could. It also could fix it, but introduce problem in other parts of the map. Just compiling and walking arround in the map by yourself to test for these possible clip errors takes time. Remember were talking about 3 clip types for 3 types of player sizes.

1. Skulk, Gorge, Lerk, crouching- Tiger, -Marine and -Fade
2. Marine, Fade
3. Onos

I "had" an area in my map which had trouble with 3. I managed to fix it for 3, but then the clipping hulls were screwed up for 1 and 2. I then went ahead and rebuilt the area from scatch, watching every brush placed to be neatly built. This takes time, but it did fix the area...

BigD

What you call "proper" brushwork, isn't always intuitive though.

Personally, I call it a hack to fix a compiler/engine problem. Why? Because in order to do that, you need to break up the brush on the top in order to fit the ramp. The ramp <i>should</i> be seperate sometimes, and it would make for nicer, cleaner brushwork sometimes too. Obviously, there are other times when making it a single brush, or giving the ramp a lip at the top works perfectly well, but there are times when it just doesn't fit right. Say at the top of a bend in a pipe, or a catwalk hanging in the air. Using one piece is realllllly not intuitive in those cases.

I do agree that it would be good for mappers to know when mapping for halflife engine games, but really, when it comes down to it, it's a habit that simply isn't required for other engines, nor is it even noticeable half the time. If it happened on every single slope, every single time you walked up it, it would be common knowledge. As it is, it only happens on occaison. Pretty much map by map basis. And it depends on the angle too! I've fixed the stickiness before by simply reducing the angle a little bit!

Plus, it simply isn't talked about much as to how to fix it. I think it's documented in cagey's thread stickied above, but I mean, that's the only other place I've ever seen it mentioned before. Hell, the only reason I even paid attention to this thread is because I just finished fixing a sticky spot in a map of mine! And like kouji, my sticky spot was for the onos. When I first released the map, I had only walked around as onos in order to make sure he fit everywhere, and this was a spot in an open area that I simply assumed he would fit anyway.

If this problem is as big of a deal as you make it out to be, write up a non-condescending tutorial explaining how to avoid it and fix it. And use pictures too so people see what you mean! Spread the good word! See, myself, the only reason I cared enough at all to learn about this issue was because an onos was stopped dead in tracks when he was running away from the hamncheese that was coming after him. Before then I figured it was no big deal at all. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />