Congrats ESMod, IGF Best Multiplayer mod!
tigersmith
Join Date: 2004-11-11 Member: 32749Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Supporter
Join Date: 2004-11-11 Member: 32749Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Supporter
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ES was laggy as all hell last time I played it. Has it gotten any better?
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I would say it hasn't got any better.
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Simple question to nay-sayers: would you try it again, if more maps/ships/lag was fixed?
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Judging from my own first experience of the mod, no. First impressions mean count for alot and it was a very bad one from my perspective.
Simple question to nay-sayers: would you try it again, if more maps/ships/lag was fixed?
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Well the basic concept behind the game has to change. Nobody is ever going to capture a capital ship by landing one by one in fighters just so they can get pwned when they exit into the hangar.
I would say it hasn't got any better.
Judging from my own first experience of the mod, no. First impressions mean count for alot and it was a very bad one from my perspective.
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Well, lag problems did improve for most, though I found other problems sprung up :/
As for no playing it again, I find that stupid, for pretty much anything. You found it intriging enough to try it in the first place, surely it's worth going back to occasionally, to see if the problems have been fixed? I just don't understand the idea, that something that was bad first time, will stay bad forever, and should be avoided at all costs.
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=Dec 17 08:57 PM:name=TychoCelchuuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TychoCelchuuuu @ Dec 17 08:57 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well the basic concept behind the game has to change. Nobody is ever going to capture a capital ship by landing one by one in fighters just so they can get pwned when they exit into the hangar.
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Basic idea is fine, on the map included. What is needed, and being added, is a transport ship, so an actual landing party can be formed, and the transport used to respawn at until points are captured.
I basically see alot of potential for this mod.
I basically see alot of potential for this mod.
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Hey, if they gave prizes for potential, plenty of people would be swimming in them. Potential doesn't matter one bit. You know what mod had spectacular potential? Natural Selection. The trick is, though, NS then <i>delivered</i> on that potential. It didn't just fizzle away like Nigh######ch or any of the other mods that had a bunch of potential and then either died or disappointed people by not living up to it.
Simple question to nay-sayers: would you try it again, if more maps/ships/lag was fixed?
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I would play again if:
the lag was fixed
the ship combat was fixed so flying wasn't so weird
boarding parties were useful
the entire game was more polished
They have a long way to go, but that's not to say they should give up. It just means they set their sights a lot higher than most other mods and have to play catch-up. To be honest they should have kept the internal beta going on a lot longer until the lag was fixed and combat was functioning properly.
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Potential doesn't matter? You're making me laugh. Without any potential, a mod will never amount to anything. NS delivered <i>eventually</i>. First night of release, NS was laggy, completely unplayable. They fixed it. The problems with ES can be fixed. NS wasn't dismissed on first release, because of it's potential. Give this one time, like NS.
There is the potential to never reach what you think a mod could amount to.
If all you have is a little glitchy minimod it SHOULD NOT be mod of the year.
Potentional does not matter when giving an award for best mod. What has been delivered is all that matters.
There is the potential to never reach what you think a mod could amount to.
If all you have is a little glitchy minimod it SHOULD NOT be mod of the year.
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Minimod? Nothing mini about it. What was delivered? A FPS, with spaceflight and foot modes, with real time movement between the two. Any other FPS mod in the past year worthy of mention, or, infact, any mod that's attempted anything like this?
My point was just that potential is not all that important. It's what already has been delivered. From what I've read in this thread so far it doesn't seem deserving of the title.
Downloading it to find out for myself though.
However, the mod as it stands is not playable. You have to mark it on what it is, not what it promises to be.
And no, eternal silence is the only mod that's attempted an "FPS, with spaceflight and foot modes, with real time movement between the two". If that was the category for success, then you'd win. However, the category is "best mod", and since it's barely playable as it stands and fails to deliver on any of the magnificent gameplay elements it promises, why does it deserve recognition?
We were being polite, but since you chose to attack everybody who didn't praise eternal silence for being what it's not, the gloves are off. It doesn't deserve recognition, it fails to deliver a pleasant, playable gaming experience. It needs a lot more work, and it doesn't deserve the award currently. Simple as that.
It sounds fantastic, I've love to play that mod.
However, the mod as it stands is not playable. You have to mark it on what it is, not what it promises to be.
And no, eternal silence is the only mod that's attempted an "FPS, with spaceflight and foot modes, with real time movement between the two". If that was the category for success, then you'd win. However, the category is "best mod", and since it's barely playable as it stands and fails to deliver on any of the magnificent gameplay elements it promises, why does it deserve recognition?
We were being polite, but since you chose to attack everybody who didn't praise eternal silence for being what it's not, the gloves are off. It doesn't deserve recognition, it fails to deliver a pleasant, playable gaming experience. It needs a lot more work, and it doesn't deserve the award currently. Simple as that.
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I think it does, considering all the other multiplayer Source mods I know of (which isn't too many). What other great multiplayer Source mods released this year?
It's got a damn good flamethrower though.
--Scythe--
I think it does, considering all the other multiplayer Source mods I know of (which isn't too many). What other great multiplayer Source mods released this year?
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Oh, this year. You're right. I guess eternal silence was the only multiplayer mod actually released this year. Hey, it's a shoe-in! Congratulations <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
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It seems that this mod won by being the only one released, not by doing anything amazing that actually warrants mod of the year.
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Well, lag problems did improve for most, though I found other problems sprung up :/
As for no playing it again, I find that stupid, for pretty much anything. You found it intriging enough to try it in the first place, surely it's worth going back to occasionally, to see if the problems have been fixed? I just don't understand the idea, that something that was bad first time, will stay bad forever, and should be avoided at all costs.
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I only tried it out because I heard KFDM had someting to do with it
<a href="http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=12134" target="_blank">http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=12134</a>
Guys, this is soo big..great work. Cant wait to see the videos of you guys winning that 5,000 dollars!
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Are you kidding me? Nobody even plays this mod.
Its not even listed on the steam servers list!
Counter-Strike: Source 68,450 34,821 1.775 billion
Day of Defeat: Source 6,104 2,254 155.983 million
Day of Defeat 4,628 1,514 186.153 million
Half-Life 2: Deathmatch 2,114 1,267 61.592 million
Garry's Mod 731 424 24.121 million
TeamFortress Classic 691 488 22.341 million
Earth's Special Forces 494 306 15.570 million
Natural Selection 483 148 14.913 million
The Specialists 287 114 7.281 million
Garry's Mod 9 278 113 9.783 million
SourceForts 177 91 4.439 million
Natural Selection v3.2 (beta) 136 56 3.320 million
Dark Messiah Of Might And Magic Multiplayer 121 96 4.588 million
Dystopia 77 27 1.704 million
Hidden: Source 72 86 2.372 million
Deathmatch Classic 64 50 1.406 million
synergy 55 25 1.469 million
shootoutmp 54 11 0
The Ship 50 51 1.341 million
Battle Grounds 2 49 21 1.282 million
Digital Paintball 34 12 0.801 million
Obsidian Conflict 33 16 1.367 million
kumawar2mp 32 11 0
Adrenaline Gamer 29 29 0.802 million
Half Life 2 Capture The Flag 24 25 0.634 million
International Online Soccer 24 15 0.519 million
hl2coop 19 13 1.803 million
Tim Coop 19 11 0
exite 15 13 0
Half-Life 2 Deathmatch Pro 4 15 0.100 million
cstrike_beta 0
I guess we're that desperate to celebrate mods in the HL2 scene that we make up awards that don't mean anything yet.
We have a lot going for Beta 2. Lots more maps, fighters, and tweaks on pretty much everything (including a rewrite of our physics / netcode systems which should give a lot more accurate and less-laggy flying and fighting).
We liked to think of Beta1 as much more of a technical beta since our mod is doing a lot of stuff that Source never really was designed for. We needed it tested out on a wide-scale and also will help us adjust the gameplay.
I saw some people saying that we should have held back the mod and we should have waited for a true "1.0" release. However, you need to remember that the demands of working with the latest technology requires a LOT more work. The differences between working with HL1 and Source is huge. Obviously if we wanted a true final 1.0 release, then we wouldn't even be out until sometime next year probably. It's not worth it to spend many years keeping beta's internal and such and then all of a sudden release the entire thing as a "1.0" release. It's better to release a lot more beta's so that you can tweak as you go, so that by the time you get to 1.0, you know that it will be damn good because a lot of people already have given their input.
Thanks guys! We'll keep you all informed and keep working towards a good game :-)
We know we have lots of work to do <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> It's not easy to make a game that is fun!
We have a lot going for Beta 2. Lots more maps, fighters, and tweaks on pretty much everything (including a rewrite of our physics / netcode systems which should give a lot more accurate and less-laggy flying and fighting).
We liked to think of Beta1 as much more of a technical beta since our mod is doing a lot of stuff that Source never really was designed for. We needed it tested out on a wide-scale and also will help us adjust the gameplay.
I saw some people saying that we should have held back the mod and we should have waited for a true "1.0" release. However, you need to remember that the demands of working with the latest technology requires a LOT more work. The differences between working with HL1 and Source is huge. Obviously if we wanted a true final 1.0 release, then we wouldn't even be out until sometime next year probably. It's not worth it to spend many years keeping beta's internal and such and then all of a sudden release the entire thing as a "1.0" release. It's better to release a lot more beta's so that you can tweak as you go, so that by the time you get to 1.0, you know that it will be damn good because a lot of people already have given their input.
Thanks guys! We'll keep you all informed and keep working towards a good game :-)
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Well maybe that net-code and physics re-write might entice people, but somewhat doubtful.
To be honest I and alot more people prefer polished and clean releases even if they are slightly buggy, I would have preferred and ES in a years time which is a bit sexier and more playable than a beta modification which is buggy, laggy and pretty ugly (apart from the awesome fire effects).
Wide scale? Just ge more closed beta testers. Mods which have hype end up with servers being played alot, first impressions mean alot in the Source engine compared to HL1 engine, because people are used and want to play polished products not work-in-progress.
It took them two years of public beta's before it became good and then bought up by Valve. If they would have waited that extra year or two and kept quiet and not release until a "1.0" who knows what would have happened. Perhaps their game would have been so bad that it would have taken another year or two of pure tweaking based on feedback until it would have been bought up. The thing is though, is that they released an early beta, got some early feedback, and then took the feedback and iterated over and over. That's how you make alright games into kick-###### games. You first make sure the foundation is solid, then just keep iterating to death until the game owns hard.
The thing is, it's really not viable anymore for mods to continue to save up until 1.0, because it takes a long time to get a good working mod. On top of that, ours is really complex code, and we needed to test it on a large scale. If we would have waited until 1.0, well then we would have been at the end of the pack and we wouldn't even be nominated for IGF right now.
A beta not only got us tons of great gameplay feedback, but it helped us realize the flaws in our code and design.
So when you guys go and make your own mod, you can do what you want and wait until 1.0 or whatever. For us though, we'd rather release early and then release often (current exception is porting to latest code which is being a pain in the ######).
Yes, as with linux, you need to 'release early and release often'. However, you don't need to release so early that people can't actually play the game in any reasonable capacity.
Edit: An open beta may have given you a lot of great gameplay feedback, but it effectively destroyed your hype. Similar to Plan of Attack - it may have been a solid game for source until counter-strike was ported over, but it released before it was ready and destroyed its credibility as a fun, playable mod. Remember daikatana?
Another difference is that neither DoD nor Plan of Attack have or plan on having spaceships (as far as I know).
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Forgotten Hope has a flying saucer, it was one of Hitlers secret easter eggs <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> Maybe DoD is planning on having something similar, ya never know