The Internet's Backlash on Religion

Quaunaut · January 2007

If you haven't noticed it yourself, I challenge you to think of things from a religious point of view, and go internet-a-surfin'. From <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/story/0,,1980978,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=1" target="_blank">articles from respected sources</a> to <a href="http://digg.com/world_news/150_Leading_Intellectuals_Spread_of_the_Internet_will_end_religion" target="_blank">Digg</a> (<a href="http://digg.com/politics/New_Atheists_storm_YouTube" target="_blank">1</a>)(<a href="http://digg.com/general_sciences/The_Devil_made_that_rock_look_that_old_to_turn_you_away_from_God" target="_blank">2</a>), or <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxaaIP-D0XI&feature=PlayList&p=7D6338FA4A19B4C3&index=0" target="_blank">Y</a><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3pMpQ6TUwQ&feature=PlayList&p=7D6338FA4A19B4C3&index=1" target="_blank">o</a><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwyZCV_NF08&feature=PlayList&p=7D6338FA4A19B4C3&index=2" target="_blank">u</a><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNuqpCnFPbU" target="_blank">t</a><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3JCx1OttNk&mode=related&search=" target="_blank">u</a><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qt3Lky-nxE8" target="_blank">b</a><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ay9GdGNyPeY&mode=related&search=" target="_blank">e</a>, were seeing a huge backlash at religion. Now, its your, and everyone else's right, to be an Athiest, but I wonder, where did much of Atheism's opinion go to in terms of "don't shove your views on others"? Now, you yourself may not be guilty- I am not accusing everyone in the world of it- but those of you who know you have, or who have witnessed it, why do you think it is? It confuses me that so many can say Religion preaches hate and intolerance, when were already beginning to see that it has nothing to do with Religion- it has to do with humans.

Note: My own faith in Christianity wavers from day to day. The way I tend to look at it is, I sympathize with Religious people, though I myself find myself little if at all religious, these days.

Quickedit: Note that "Youtube" is a seperate link for each letter, and they all originate from <a href="http://www.blasphemychallenge.com/" target="_blank">here</a>. There are many more.

Scythe · January 2007

I'm all in favor of encouraging rational thought and using one's own cognitive abilities to form evidence-based explanations of the world around oneself, but this reeks of generic in-your-face anti-establishmentism. Nobody should question their parent's beliefs because they feel pressured to do so in order to be cool. They should do so in order to satiate their desire to understand the universe without having to resort to magical men in the sky.

--Scythe--

Swiftspear · January 2007

What you you expect from the religion created with the soul purpose of denying the undeniable fact that there is more to the existence then you can look at with a telescope or a microscope.

Quaunaut · January 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swiftspear @ Jan 2 2007, 05:25 AM) [snapback]1594038[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
What you you expect from the religion created with the soul purpose of denying the undeniable fact that there is more to the existence then you can look at with a telescope or a microscope.
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Are you speaking of Atheism as a religion? This is to clarify.

Swiftspear · January 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Quaunaut @ Jan 2 2007, 08:29 AM) [snapback]1594040[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
Are you speaking of Atheism as a religion? This is to clarify.
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Yes. It is a religion. It's another system of beliefs that surmises to know the unknowable and therefore have figured out the true nature of reality. It has evangelists, it has organization, it has documentation, it has denominations, it's a religion.

Scythe · January 2007

You can't apply that label like that. Coca-cola has evangelists, it has organization, it has documentation, it has denominations, it's <b>not</b> a religion.

--Scythe--

Thaldarin · January 2007

If it has a belief system to how we all came to be and the world came to be, one which was founded on non-scientific evidence I'd say it is a religion.

Swiftspear · January 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Scythe @ Jan 2 2007, 08:44 AM) [snapback]1594042[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
You can't apply that label like that. Coca-cola has evangelists, it has organization, it has documentation, it has denominations, it's <b>not</b> a religion.

--Scythe--
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Coca-cola is not a belief system, Coca-cola does not purport to explain the nature of reality. Therefore coca cola is not a religion. Religion has nothing to do with deity. Deity is simply a common method of explanation. Buddhism has no deity. As soon as you have made a theistic assumption you have practiced a religion.

[edit] atheism makes a statement of how we came to be that is founded in non-science. Science hasn't even come remotely or slightly close to explaining how we came to be.

Quaunaut · January 2007

As OP, can I please ask we get back on topic? All calling Atheism a religion is going to do is make people angry, whether you are right or wrong.

<3

Thaldarin · January 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Quaunaut @ Jan 2 2007, 01:54 PM) [snapback]1594046[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
As OP, can I please ask we get back on topic? All calling Atheism a religion is going to do is make people angry, whether you are right or wrong.

<3
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Anything about religion on the NS forums is doomed for a lock, it is only a matter of time.

eediot · January 2007

Swiftspear you silly-billy, atheism is not a religion, it is a lack of belief. Just because some people like to identify themselves as atheist and other people like to pretend its some big anti-establishment following, does NOT mean it is a religion, by any definition of the word. Atheism is, in the short and long, the understanding that there is no god. The only reason anybody could ever define it as a 'belief' of any sort stems from the public image that god is fact and any opinion contrary to it must be a 'personal belief'.

So you can say "atheism is a religion for all intents and purposes" all you want, but it's bull crap, pure and simple. It's your opinion, not justifiable by any empirical evidence, and... it's wrong. Even as an opinion, it's wrong.

I don't know how to say this any clearer. The thread was never destined for anything more than a lock, but I want to nip this whole "atheism is a cult following! atheism is a belief and most followers adhere to common rules regarding it!" fallacy in the bud before it gets too entrenched.

People, use your BRAIN.

Quaunaut · January 2007

Emperor Awesome, despite Swift's combative words, your name calling helps no one.

This thread can survive just fine. If you don't say flame inciting things, flames won't be coerced. I want people's opinions on these things, not idealogical tyrades from either side of the spectrum to go on a tangent about how someone on the other side is most obviously wrong for insert-off-topic-reason-here. Get back on topic, and stop insisting a thread is destined to be locked because you do your best to make it so.

Geminosity · January 2007

the 'backlash' has always been there. It's just the atheist version of preachers.

In any group of people who hold a belief of any kind there will be various types of people; from the silent to the rowdy. Admittedly, I've yet to see Atheists stalking the streets to pounce on you with fliers telling you to save your soul or whatever (had that with some Christians just a lil bit before Xmas in town but they steered clear of me when I gave them the evils for heading in my general direction). I'm sure some atheist 'preachers' are a symptom of people getting annoyed by that.

Then again, maybe that's because the UK is predominantly atheist or agnostic? After all it's the few who would feel the need to appeal to the many right? :/
*Personally I don't know anyone on or off the net from the UK who are Christian. I do however know one Muslim and one Atheist fanatic (who is as scary as a fanatic from any faction) :3

While I'm currently Atheist or Agnostic myself I had Christianity foisted on me by my school which I eventually threw off in disgust after being a 'good little Christian' for a while and even dabbled a bit in Buddhism later. While I didn't really stick with it in the end, Buddhism is the one Religion I've left with a deep respect for.

I'm not really sure if I'm classed as Atheist or Agnostic though. I don't really believe there's a higher power at work (don't really see the need for one) but I still believe there's plenty of things out there that science can't fully grasp. I respect other people's beliefs where I can as long as they don't rub it in my face and if someone suddenly turned up with irresputable 100% super mega proof of a deity (such as walking into the room with a giant amorphous blob of light that claimed it was the creator) I'd probably shrug and go 'sure'.
I doubt I'd change my lifestyle to any religion now though, regardless of proof or not :p

<b>* asterix edit *</b>
I originally said "Outside of Quan I know precisely zero people on the net or off from the UK who are Christian.". This is because I am silly. Quan is not from the UK as he points two posts below this :3

eediot · January 2007

My "name calling" changes nothing. You made the ridiculous thread in a forum that cannot sustain intelligent argument, he provided the inflammatory comments: "God is the answer", "atheism is a religion", "atheism is absurd and inherently incorrect or insufficient". How are you supposed to work around that? Defeat his 'arguments', silence him early on, and maybe rational thought has a chance of surviving, but calling someone a [justified] twit affects nothing.

Quaunaut · January 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Geminosity @ Jan 2 2007, 06:04 AM) [snapback]1594051[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
Outside of Quan I know precisely zero people on the net or off from the UK who are Christian.
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For the record, I'm not from the UK.

Geminosity · January 2007

~scratches head~

oh... oop... sorry ^^;

No idea why I thought you were from the UK. Maybe I was thinking of someone else? :o

Quaunaut · January 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(emperor_awesome @ Jan 2 2007, 06:05 AM) [snapback]1594052[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
My "name calling" changes nothing. You made the ridiculous thread in a forum that cannot sustain intelligent argument, he provided the inflammatory comments: "God is the answer", "atheism is a religion", "atheism is absurd and inherently incorrect or insufficient". How are you supposed to work around that? Defeat his 'arguments', silence him early on, and maybe rational thought has a chance of surviving, but calling someone a [justified] twit affects nothing.
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Emperor, we've sustained plenty of intelligent discourse, and your insistence that we are obviously less than your SA buddies isn't exactly an intelligent way of doing things. If you'd like to insult the forum as a whole, I'd suggest making your own thread. This thread is for intelligent discourse, such as that from perhaps Scythe's comment, or Geminosity's.

Swiftspear · January 2007

What is the topic? Weather or not atheists should lay off bugging people about their respective religious beliefs? We might as well argue that Christians should stop trying to convert people, in both cases evangelism is basically written into the religious documentation. They aren't going to stop because they believe something non-imperial to be fact and therefore use it to guide their actions in life, as long as this is the case conflicts between others with the same problem are inevitable.

Most rational people can figure out that fanatic atheists should stop being offensive and intolerant, fanatic Christains should stop being fatalistic and hatemongering, fanatic Islamics should stop terrorizing and preaching manifest destiny. But rational people aren't the problem in the first place. If you're trying to figure out what the role of the rational observer is, the best I can give you is damage control, and that's a best case scenario.

[edit] Emp Awe: Athiesm is the belief in nothing, not the lack of belief. Agnostism is the lack of a belief.

eediot · January 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Quaunaut @ Jan 3 2007, 01:08 AM) [snapback]1594055[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
Emperor, we've sustained plenty of intelligent discourse, and your insistence that we are obviously less than your SA buddies isn't exactly an intelligent way of doing things. If you'd like to insult the forum as a whole, I'd suggest making your own thread. This thread is for intelligent discourse, such as that from perhaps Scythe's comment, or Geminosity's.
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You keep on believing whatever you want, mate. I'm out of here.

Quaunaut · January 2007

The topic is "WHY" has this suddenly arose. This level of anti-religious speaking hasn't been seen since John Lennon's "Imagine" made its way through the mainstream masses.

I'd encourage everyone in this thread to settle down. It'd help keep the lock away.

Mouse · January 2007

Quan, I'd rather lock this thread now than wait until its spiraled around the plug hole a few more times.
<span style="color:red">LOCKED</span>

The Internet's Backlash on Religion

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