Grenade Explosions

Sarisel

<div class="IPBDescription">direct hits</div>I don't think this is a bug per se, but whenever a grenade hits something like a hive or an alien, the explosion always radiates through. For example, if an onos catches a grenade, you don't want to be a skulk or lerk behind it. On the other hand, you can hide behind buildings and players and not get scratched by xenocide. These two different observations brought up the question and I was wondering if someone has an answer. Why doesn't the player model shield from the grenade blast, while shielding against xenocide?

DC_Darkling

different form of blast or range I guess. But nice point

pSyk0mAn

Mines are also wierd sometimes, especially when you gain full damage in a vent, but the mine is too far away to give that amount of damage.

NEX9

hum i dont think i have seen this, i see rines standing around courners lobing nades while i am a few good feet behind my chambers, and i have been close to other aliens takeing exsplosions cos they havent had the nack or bothered to attempt to dodge a well placed nade

i guess the diffrance being xeno has a really werid soft edge for damage, unless the sulk is piggy backing you your not going to take the full damage, i guess the fall off damage on a GL is much less but enough for a gorge to hide behind one or two rows of chambers healing with regen and DC's helping him, it may seam like a endless battle but hes healing to full health in the time it takes you to reload

with xeno you ether have armor or you dont being such a high amount of damage if you have even a single spec of armor your takeing way less reduced damage than a armor less xeno

prahaps the orange like smoke clouds the xeno puts out impact and damage target and are consumed or obsorbed if they come in contact with said targets

i guess i know of your issue but have never really seen it, in both cases its seams like a soft edge damage fall off that is your issue, gorge instincitly move away from nades, rine move away from the xeno or in this case try and hide behind each other

still a good question tho

Align

Map terrain is static, players and buildings not so. I'm not sure the engine could make players/buildings provide shelter against blast damage, and I'd rather this doesn't happen, since taking out gorge forts would be ridicolously difficult if you only damaged the frontmost building.

Sarisel

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Map terrain is static, players and buildings not so. I'm not sure the engine could make players/buildings provide shelter against blast damage, and I'd rather this doesn't happen, since taking out gorge forts would be ridicolously difficult if you only damaged the frontmost building.
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I don't understand how this is relevant. A xenociding skulk is a player, a grenade is an entity from a player's weapon. I am pretty sure that you can avoid taking damage from xenocide by hiding behind buildings. This is easy to test and find out for sure and I will do it if nobody else has done so already. As for grenades, the blast goes through structures and through players, I am pretty sure this is what happens from experience.

As for taking out gorge forts, you don't necessarily have to hit the foremost building.

Edit: Did some testing. The grenade vs xenocide actually seems pretty consistent in comparison when the attack hits buildings head on. Only the front building gets damaged. However, if the grenade hits the top of the building, surrounding structures and players behind it are damaged. This is not the case for xenocide if it is triggered near the hitboxes of a marine structure such as the turret factory. Only the used TF will get damaged if you trigger xenocide on top of it. Surrounding TFs are not damaged. I have yet to test what happens when grenades hit players.

One_man_armY

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Mines are also wierd sometimes, especially when you gain full damage in a vent, but the mine is too far away to give that amount of damage.
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Thats from when something detonates inside an entity (wall, floor, whatever) it ends up doing like 10 times the damage/radius it should. You can do the same thing with TFC by throwing nail grenades near the roof and they raise into it creating a massive explosion.

Cxwf

I suspect this has to do with the difference between the TIME trigger and the CONTACT trigger.

When a grenade, or a Xenocide, explodes because of the TIME trigger, it explodes at the location of the explosive. But when you get a direct hit with a grenade, you use the CONTACT trigger instead, and the explosion is created at the location of whatever target you hit. That target then becomes transparent to the blast effect, because the blast effect is essentially radiating out from the target itself, rather than from the explosive.

TO recap:

Direct hit: The object hit does not provide shielding, but all other objects do provide shielding.
Not direct hit: All objects provide shielding

Of course, Xenocide <i>can't get</i> a direct hit, because it doesn't have a contact trigger, only a time trigger. So you always get the slightly less effective non-direct hit blast with Xeno.

But it gets worse! Due to a bug in the HL explosives code, which is posted somewhere in the forums by someone I forgot, a Direct Hit does not use falloff damage at all. You get 100% of the blast damage to ALL targets in range. But if you get a non-direct-hit, then targets that are further away take reduced damage based on the range. And again, Xeno can never get direct hits, so it always suffers damage fall off.

To recap again:

Direct Hit: The object hit takes 100% damage, and does not provide shielding. All other targets within range of the primary target also take 100% damage, although they will provide shielding to objects behind them.

Non Direct Hit: All objects provide shielding, and the % of damage taken is reduced based on distance to the explosive.

NEX9

ta
cxwf

so when is some one going to go suggest a contact trigger on sulks

attaches proximity warning lables to his body*

zerwalter

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Thats from when something detonates inside an entity (wall, floor, whatever) it ends up doing like 10 times the damage/radius it should. You can do the same thing with TFC by throwing nail grenades near the roof and they raise into it creating a massive explosion. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I thought that explosions in vents were changed at one point to make them more "realistic" and extend further but I can't find it in any of the changelogs on rr.org. Anyone else remember? I think it might have been during one of the beta tester build releases.

Cxwf

Hmmm...I don't recall exactly what you're talking about, but I do remember a bug report on explosives in vents at one point. It might never have been fixed, since I think it was pretty deeply embedded in the HL base code.

The idea was that explosions don't actually occur exactly at the position of an explosive. The game physics engine moves the location slightly upwards or downwards (I forget why but I'm sure there was a reason), and in a very small space like a vent this often results in the explosion taking place outside the actual map.

If you've ever moved around a map in free spectate mode, you'll have noticed that almost all walls are transparent from the outside. They only block line of sight in one direction, from the inside. So if there's an explosion outside the map, all walls look invisible to the explosion and it passes right through them, dealing full damage to everything in range.