Exclusively, eh? Well we are still having some support for games for like Win 98 and Win 2k... So I think you will be waiting for a while.
There's not going to really be a magical barrier where it all of a sudden jumps tracks from XP and previous to Vista development. It's a transition.
If you want me to be picky though, there are already games being made exclusively for it... Right now they are all ports of Xbox / Xbox360 but whatever it's the first time they are on PC's.... Halo 2, Geometry Wars, Uno, and probably other Arcade games...
There are already games taking advantage of Vista but not becoming exclusive such as Crysis.
<!--quoteo(post=1597844:date=Jan 12 2007, 12:23 AM:name=Comprox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Comprox @ Jan 12 2007, 12:23 AM) [snapback]1597844[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Aero - indifferent. Not a plus or minus for me. It can be turned off if not liked. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This, and many other things are actually a minus if you don't like them, though. You end up paying for stuff you don't like, won't use, and end up turning off.
I'll never upgrade a machine to Vista. I see absolutely no value in upgrading old hardware. I've been holding back waiting for Vista to come out so that I can build a whole new rig setup to run it from day one. I've already got one machine that recently had a hard drive transplant running ubuntu. And I'm convinced that once I'm out of the way with my silly games, my parents could run ubuntu (after it was setup for them) for what little they do on a computer. When XP stops getting updates, that machines going linux. It's not that I have anything against vista, it's just that free happens to be cheaper, and the hardware requirements simply aren't up there. (And a guy can get used to that whole "free" concept, let me tell you.) Seriously, if it's so out dated anyway, why put money into it? Now, I can't talk for the poor folk who've invested in new computers in the last year or so. Good luck with that predicament, folks.
Well, I shouldn't say I don't have anything against Vista. Just like XP, there are going to to be some interface oddities, some pain in the butt things to change, but that's what I'll put up with until Window's isn't the defacto gaming platform anymore. I like all the security changes they've made. Obviously don't like the DRM (not that it worries me that much... someone will figure a way around it. Just watch.) The whole side bar thing can burn in a fire. Search sounds overhyped to me. (I know where my files should be. Sure it'll be nice when I do need it, but I'm starting to get the impression reading some reviews that it'll be the first thing that pops up when I click the "not-start-anymore" button.) On the flip side, you have no idea how much it joyed me when I heard the stupid "my" prefix was disappearing though.
I'll get vista-fied after I buy a new machine, and by that time the big kinks should be worked out. I have faith that MS isn't that stupid to release an OS that is <i>worse</i> than XP. We'll see though.
<!--quoteo(post=1597804:date=Jan 12 2007, 04:07 AM:name=Iced_Eagle)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Iced_Eagle @ Jan 12 2007, 04:07 AM) [snapback]1597804[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I could care less <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Alright I know this is completely off-topic, but I just find it amusing how you, especially when you're American, can say that. I hope you don't say that in real life.
<!--quoteo(post=1597724:date=Jan 11 2007, 07:11 PM:name=MonsieurEvil)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MonsieurEvil @ Jan 11 2007, 07:11 PM) [snapback]1597724[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Complaining about how you will never run Windows on a forum for a game that only runs on Windows while posting from your Windows machine... priceless... ;-) <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1597953:date=Jan 12 2007, 02:39 PM:name=KungFuDiscoMonkey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KungFuDiscoMonkey @ Jan 12 2007, 02:39 PM) [snapback]1597953[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Actually I run NS under Linux ^__^ <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
BigD: With Microsoft's whole gaming for windows initiative, it is and will more than definitely be the defacto gaming OS for many many years...
If you're going to wait for Apple or Linux to start pushing into the gaming realm, good luck and have fun and I'll see you in a few decades.
Man, Creative is absolutely lazy with their driver support. Luckily they released another driver today but is still labeling it as beta.
Again, it works, but it's just annoying they aren't providing support yet for an OS they've had so many months to develop on... Even nVidia has support for their graphics cards, and I'm fairly sure that graphics cards are more complicated than sound cards. Maybe I'm mistaken though.
<!--quoteo(post=1598046:date=Jan 12 2007, 07:39 PM:name=Iced_Eagle)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Iced_Eagle @ Jan 12 2007, 07:39 PM) [snapback]1598046[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> If you're going to wait for Apple or Linux to start pushing into the gaming realm, good luck and have fun and I'll see you in a few decades. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know much about gaming with another OS but it's not like an Apple iMac or so forth can't support games. They can come with some pretty good graphics cards. Also there are a few MMOs out there that will play on Mac OS.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
I think it has more to do with the game developers not willing to invest money and time (hmm same thing? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />) into developing a mac/linux compatible game...
Well people do it like when they port Doom3, Quake4, and Prey and such...
It's just that honestly the games market for that is so unbelivably small when compared to Windows that it usually isn't worth their time at all...
Yea sure, of course they can support them I'm not saying that. The point I was making is that not a whole heck of a lot of people want to... For example Prey which was just recently released for the Mac got the task handed to a company which specializes in putitng windows games onto mac computers... Usually the original company that created the game is already busy working on their next game when they decide they should release it on those platforms.
A worrying article I found linked on another site. Amongst other points the primary worrying issue it lists is that there's no reason whatsoever the DMR in vista couldn't be exploited by malware authors to intentionally shut down your PC to the point where it's only fixable with DMR disabled, which of course is impossible.
Additionally it's somewhat concerning that DMR hardware is very likely going to be impossible to make compatible with any open sourced operating system. So there goes the days of open standard PC's and dualbooting, you'd need different PC hardware setups to run linux as opposed to windows.
If these are the case frankly ###### vista and ###### DMR. I'd rather not game then be sitting on that kind of a timebomb just before final projects are due for instance. If the gaming industry is going to be serious about following this death march then if I ever get a vista PC I'm going to be treating it like a game console, used for gameplay but nothing else, because that's all it's good for.
Like many others, the only thing I am even slightly interested in is DX10, and eventually being forced to spend all the money to sidegrade kinda leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
A worrying article I found linked on another site. Amongst other points the primary worrying issue it lists is that there's no reason whatsoever the DMR in vista couldn't be exploited by malware authors to intentionally shut down your PC to the point where it's only fixable with DMR disabled, which of course is impossible.
Additionally it's somewhat concerning that DMR hardware is very likely going to be impossible to make compatible with any open sourced operating system. So there goes the days of open standard PC's and dualbooting, you'd need different PC hardware setups to run linux as opposed to windows.
If these are the case frankly ###### vista and ###### DMR. I'd rather not game then be sitting on that kind of a timebomb just before final projects are due for instance. If the gaming industry is going to be serious about following this death march then if I ever get a vista PC I'm going to be treating it like a game console, used for gameplay but nothing else, because that's all it's good for. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is anything in that article true right now? No.
Why even bothering with FUD (mainly the fear part though) towards Vista? In fact, I can do the same thing.
Guess what, a virus could be made which takes over the world and launches everybody's nukes at each other. Theroetically it's possible, but so unlikely... See what I did there? A little fear for everyone in this digital age!
People can guess the future all they want and saying that Vista is going to blow up the world or something and that it's going to ruin computers and make our lives a pain in the ######. Nothing is set in stone, and so far all of these horror stories of Vista are completely unfounded...
<!--quoteo(post=1598377:date=Jan 13 2007, 11:37 AM:name=Quaunaut)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Quaunaut @ Jan 13 2007, 11:37 AM) [snapback]1598377[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I'll switch when I can get a copy of Ultimate for $150. I've got XP Pro, if it helps. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Get a Microsoft employee to get you a cheap copy. They live everywhere here.
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1598408:date=Jan 13 2007, 01:40 PM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ Jan 13 2007, 01:40 PM) [snapback]1598408[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Get a Microsoft employee to get you a cheap copy. They live everywhere here. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I need to find that guy I met in Hawaii. He was neat(worked for their legal division). Hmm.
Iced/Monse. From my post above, there isn't much so far I can see to upgrade. Am I missing something still, or should I settle into my 'wait' position?
<!--quoteo(post=1598376:date=Jan 13 2007, 02:33 PM:name=Iced_Eagle)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Iced_Eagle @ Jan 13 2007, 02:33 PM) [snapback]1598376[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Is anything in that article true right now? No.
Why even bothering with FUD (mainly the fear part though) towards Vista? In fact, I can do the same thing.
Guess what, a virus could be made which takes over the world and launches everybody's nukes at each other. Theroetically it's possible, but so unlikely... See what I did there? A little fear for everyone in this digital age!
People can guess the future all they want and saying that Vista is going to blow up the world or something and that it's going to ruin computers and make our lives a pain in the ######. Nothing is set in stone, and so far all of these horror stories of Vista are completely unfounded... <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> AFAIK All of the things in the article are true... The question is weather the conclusions the author draws from the facts are accurate...
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->BigD: With Microsoft's whole gaming for windows initiative, it is and will more than definitely be the defacto gaming OS for many many years...
If you're going to wait for Apple or Linux to start pushing into the gaming realm, good luck and have fun and I'll see you in a few decades.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> There's no wait for lunix to push into the gaming realm, there's no reason games can't currently be written for lunix, the only thing is that microsoft's proprietary direct X graphics renderer is more popular in the gaming industry, in large part because microsoft financially encourages software and hardware developers to focus on their solutions.
<!--quoteo(post=1598376:date=Jan 14 2007, 06:33 AM:name=Iced_Eagle)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Iced_Eagle @ Jan 14 2007, 06:33 AM) [snapback]1598376[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Why even bothering with FUD (mainly the fear part though) towards Vista? In fact, I can do the same thing. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't see why people shouldn't attempt to use FUD against microsoft, they certainly deserve a lot more of it than whatever anybody could dish out. Look up the halloween documents, for starters.
And yes, the security issues are worrying, because microsoft is typically slow and dismissive with security flaws and potential exploits. Stop defending it beyond reason.
<!--quoteo(post=1598442:date=Jan 13 2007, 06:35 PM:name=Comprox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Comprox @ Jan 13 2007, 06:35 PM) [snapback]1598442[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Iced/Monse. From my post above, there isn't much so far I can see to upgrade. Am I missing something still, or should I settle into my 'wait' position? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It will probably boil down to your first must-have DX10 game. Or if you want a new PC, you won't have many options other than Vista - trust me, OEM's will cut off XP from consumer supply chains Jan 30th - XP is dead.
No one's forcing you to upgrade, but after having used Vista for the better part of two years now, I can't even tolerate being on a XP machine; Vista just feels better, safer, more intuitive, more stable, and far more usable. It's not just gaming for me, naturally - a bazillion things now exist in an enterprise network environment that XP<2000 never had.
Heck, just the fact that ASLR, UAC and DEP are on means that I don't even care about anti-virus software anymore on my personal machines. So Vista ends up being faster than XP for me ;-)
Buffer overflow isn't the only way in monse. I just hope MS finally stopped compiling with -DUSELESS_FEATURE_WITH_GAPING_SECURITY_HOLE. That'd be refreshing as hell.
<!--quoteo(post=1598410:date=Jan 13 2007, 03:50 PM:name=Quaunaut)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Quaunaut @ Jan 13 2007, 03:50 PM) [snapback]1598410[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I need to find that guy I met in Hawaii. He was neat(worked for their legal division). Hmm. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Legal Division? Good luck with that one! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
They are very strict on buying stuff over at the MS Company store... When I was there for the Vista Beta tour they gave us a $120 limit on hardware/software we could spend in the store (and considering XP Pro was like 20 or 30, you can get a lot... I got myself two wireless mice, wireless keyboard and a bunch of Xbox360 stuff). For all the normal employees they take down their employee badge numbers and such for everything they buy, so I doubt anybody (let alone a lawyer) will want to get you cheap stuff.
emperor_awesome: I wasn't saying security wasn't important... The point I was making is that everyone is talking hypothetically towards what sort of viruses and malware can be made, yet I haven't heard of anything. Maybe we'll see once Vista is available for the general public.
Vista does have lots of security stuff built into the OS... In fact at times it can be almost too secure/annoying at times when it flashes too many UAC icons or my biggest pet peeve right now is every time I open Visual Studio it asks for permission (because I'm running it in Administrator mode to ensure full compatibility until SP1 for VS is out of beta for Vista).
Microsoft has done a great job trying to make Vista secure. In fact they took it to Blackhat last year and basically held a competition with all of the hackers there to see who could hack Vista using all default settings. Somebody did end up cracking it, but all of the holes which were exposed there are almost guaranteed closed.
TBH, I'm really trying not to outright defend Microsoft... I'm just thinking that you guys are being way way way too stereotypical right now towards them. Agreed that MS does have a track record for this sort of stuff, but they are definitely changing for the better on proving everybody wrong... I guess we'll see in 15 days how it holds up when Vista ships <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
*Edit* Comprox: Well ultimately it's your choice, and waiting never hurt anyone <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> If you have a spare hard drive though and want to try dual-booting, if you get a Vista Install DVD you can use it for 30 days "for free" without needing to activate it. During that period if you end up liking it, you buy it and activate it using your new product key... Or else you could always just format Vista away and stick with XP until DX10 becomes mainstream or the next, hopefully improved, version of Windows comes out.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If this had been done by Linus Torvalds, Steve Jobs, Alan Cox, or Theo de Raadt, I'd have said the same thing about it. As far as I'm concerned computers are tools to get a job done and not a platform for religious wars, and if something's bad I'll say so regardless of who's doing it. Just for the record I run various versions of Windows on ... [counting] ... seven of my machines (the rest are a mixture of Linux, FreeBSD, and occasionally Solaris), so I'd be a rather unlikely Microsoft detractor if I have their software all over my machines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bullsh*t, if any of messrs Torvalds, Jobs, Cox, or de Raadt would have made Vista (or an equivilent), then he be screaming for their blood as well. Oh, the majority of Microsoft bashers run Windows too. Because it's the only OS that will do pretty much everything for them.
And anyone actually reading the guys dissertation of Vista in it's entirety (which I actually was bored enough to do...), would see it's a speculative, inaccurate, insufficiently source, and heavily biased argument. No actual counterpoints to anything. Is this guy seriously telling us that he cannot find a counterpoint to his moaning, or a fix that was developed for anything in his piece, or did he not look properly?
Speculation does NOT make for a basis of a dissertation of technology.
[edit] I just thought I'd clarify that the article I linked earlier is not in fact an article, it's a published and peer reviewed paper out of the CS department of the Auckland university of New Zealand (read New Zealand's top university) by professor Peter Guttman. Which all the more means at very least I think someone should attemt to adress the points raised.
I liked <a href="http://www.dasmirnov.net/blog/2006/12/31/windows_vista_drm_nonsense" target="_blank">http://www.dasmirnov.net/blog/2006/12/31/w...ta_drm_nonsense</a> This article, it clarifies the point of one issue, that the DRM system isn't really something microsoft exclusive, it's something that microsoft is tailoring to that he Guttman sees as a bad idea in general, which is fair enough. Anyone else have point/counterpoint articles to further clarify the issue? I'm still really concerned about the security aspect.
Necro<insert non-birthday-related title here>Join Date: 2002-08-09Member: 1118Members
that drm article really clarified a lot of stuff i was worried about, but doesn't explain if the drm spreads further into say running an mp3 over winamp - legal or not -.-
Comments
There's not going to really be a magical barrier where it all of a sudden jumps tracks from XP and previous to Vista development. It's a transition.
If you want me to be picky though, there are already games being made exclusively for it... Right now they are all ports of Xbox / Xbox360 but whatever it's the first time they are on PC's.... Halo 2, Geometry Wars, Uno, and probably other Arcade games...
There are already games taking advantage of Vista but not becoming exclusive such as Crysis.
Aero - indifferent. Not a plus or minus for me. It can be turned off if not liked.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This, and many other things are actually a minus if you don't like them, though. You end up paying for stuff you don't like, won't use, and end up turning off.
Well, I shouldn't say I don't have anything against Vista. Just like XP, there are going to to be some interface oddities, some pain in the butt things to change, but that's what I'll put up with until Window's isn't the defacto gaming platform anymore. I like all the security changes they've made. Obviously don't like the DRM (not that it worries me that much... someone will figure a way around it. Just watch.) The whole side bar thing can burn in a fire. Search sounds overhyped to me. (I know where my files should be. Sure it'll be nice when I do need it, but I'm starting to get the impression reading some reviews that it'll be the first thing that pops up when I click the "not-start-anymore" button.) On the flip side, you have no idea how much it joyed me when I heard the stupid "my" prefix was disappearing though.
I'll get vista-fied after I buy a new machine, and by that time the big kinks should be worked out. I have faith that MS isn't that stupid to release an OS that is <i>worse</i> than XP. We'll see though.
I could care less
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Alright I know this is completely off-topic, but I just find it amusing how you, especially when you're American, can say that. I hope you don't say that in real life.
and soundcard of course but that was beta 2 ;p
also there are some exclusive games alerady coming like alan wake.
Complaining about how you will never run Windows on a forum for a game that only runs on Windows while posting from your Windows machine... priceless...
;-) <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually I run NS under Linux ^__^
Actually I run NS under Linux ^__^
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Warning. Fan boy alert!
Purple.Linux.
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
If you're going to wait for Apple or Linux to start pushing into the gaming realm, good luck and have fun and I'll see you in a few decades.
Man, Creative is absolutely lazy with their driver support. Luckily they released another driver today but is still labeling it as beta.
Again, it works, but it's just annoying they aren't providing support yet for an OS they've had so many months to develop on... Even nVidia has support for their graphics cards, and I'm fairly sure that graphics cards are more complicated than sound cards. Maybe I'm mistaken though.
If you're going to wait for Apple or Linux to start pushing into the gaming realm, good luck and have fun and I'll see you in a few decades.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know much about gaming with another OS but it's not like an Apple iMac or so forth can't support games. They can come with some pretty good graphics cards. Also there are a few MMOs out there that will play on Mac OS.
It's just that honestly the games market for that is so unbelivably small when compared to Windows that it usually isn't worth their time at all...
Yea sure, of course they can support them I'm not saying that. The point I was making is that not a whole heck of a lot of people want to... For example Prey which was just recently released for the Mac got the task handed to a company which specializes in putitng windows games onto mac computers... Usually the original company that created the game is already busy working on their next game when they decide they should release it on those platforms.
A worrying article I found linked on another site. Amongst other points the primary worrying issue it lists is that there's no reason whatsoever the DMR in vista couldn't be exploited by malware authors to intentionally shut down your PC to the point where it's only fixable with DMR disabled, which of course is impossible.
Additionally it's somewhat concerning that DMR hardware is very likely going to be impossible to make compatible with any open sourced operating system. So there goes the days of open standard PC's and dualbooting, you'd need different PC hardware setups to run linux as opposed to windows.
If these are the case frankly ###### vista and ###### DMR. I'd rather not game then be sitting on that kind of a timebomb just before final projects are due for instance. If the gaming industry is going to be serious about following this death march then if I ever get a vista PC I'm going to be treating it like a game console, used for gameplay but nothing else, because that's all it's good for.
<a href="http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt" target="_blank">http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt</a>
A worrying article I found linked on another site. Amongst other points the primary worrying issue it lists is that there's no reason whatsoever the DMR in vista couldn't be exploited by malware authors to intentionally shut down your PC to the point where it's only fixable with DMR disabled, which of course is impossible.
Additionally it's somewhat concerning that DMR hardware is very likely going to be impossible to make compatible with any open sourced operating system. So there goes the days of open standard PC's and dualbooting, you'd need different PC hardware setups to run linux as opposed to windows.
If these are the case frankly ###### vista and ###### DMR. I'd rather not game then be sitting on that kind of a timebomb just before final projects are due for instance. If the gaming industry is going to be serious about following this death march then if I ever get a vista PC I'm going to be treating it like a game console, used for gameplay but nothing else, because that's all it's good for.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is anything in that article true right now? No.
Why even bothering with FUD (mainly the fear part though) towards Vista? In fact, I can do the same thing.
Guess what, a virus could be made which takes over the world and launches everybody's nukes at each other. Theroetically it's possible, but so unlikely... See what I did there? A little fear for everyone in this digital age!
People can guess the future all they want and saying that Vista is going to blow up the world or something and that it's going to ruin computers and make our lives a pain in the ######. Nothing is set in stone, and so far all of these horror stories of Vista are completely unfounded...
I'll switch when I can get a copy of Ultimate for $150. I've got XP Pro, if it helps.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Get a Microsoft employee to get you a cheap copy. They live everywhere here.
Get a Microsoft employee to get you a cheap copy. They live everywhere here.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I need to find that guy I met in Hawaii. He was neat(worked for their legal division). Hmm.
Is anything in that article true right now? No.
Why even bothering with FUD (mainly the fear part though) towards Vista? In fact, I can do the same thing.
Guess what, a virus could be made which takes over the world and launches everybody's nukes at each other. Theroetically it's possible, but so unlikely... See what I did there? A little fear for everyone in this digital age!
People can guess the future all they want and saying that Vista is going to blow up the world or something and that it's going to ruin computers and make our lives a pain in the ######. Nothing is set in stone, and so far all of these horror stories of Vista are completely unfounded...
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
AFAIK All of the things in the article are true... The question is weather the conclusions the author draws from the facts are accurate...
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->BigD: With Microsoft's whole gaming for windows initiative, it is and will more than definitely be the defacto gaming OS for many many years...
If you're going to wait for Apple or Linux to start pushing into the gaming realm, good luck and have fun and I'll see you in a few decades.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's no wait for lunix to push into the gaming realm, there's no reason games can't currently be written for lunix, the only thing is that microsoft's proprietary direct X graphics renderer is more popular in the gaming industry, in large part because microsoft financially encourages software and hardware developers to focus on their solutions.
Why even bothering with FUD (mainly the fear part though) towards Vista? In fact, I can do the same thing.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't see why people shouldn't attempt to use FUD against microsoft, they certainly deserve a lot more of it than whatever anybody could dish out. Look up the halloween documents, for starters.
And yes, the security issues are worrying, because microsoft is typically slow and dismissive with security flaws and potential exploits. Stop defending it beyond reason.
Iced/Monse. From my post above, there isn't much so far I can see to upgrade. Am I missing something still, or should I settle into my 'wait' position?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It will probably boil down to your first must-have DX10 game. Or if you want a new PC, you won't have many options other than Vista - trust me, OEM's will cut off XP from consumer supply chains Jan 30th - XP is dead.
No one's forcing you to upgrade, but after having used Vista for the better part of two years now, I can't even tolerate being on a XP machine; Vista just feels better, safer, more intuitive, more stable, and far more usable. It's not just gaming for me, naturally - a bazillion things now exist in an enterprise network environment that XP<2000 never had.
Heck, just the fact that ASLR, UAC and DEP are on means that I don't even care about anti-virus software anymore on my personal machines. So Vista ends up being faster than XP for me ;-)
I need to find that guy I met in Hawaii. He was neat(worked for their legal division). Hmm.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Legal Division? Good luck with that one! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
They are very strict on buying stuff over at the MS Company store... When I was there for the Vista Beta tour they gave us a $120 limit on hardware/software we could spend in the store (and considering XP Pro was like 20 or 30, you can get a lot... I got myself two wireless mice, wireless keyboard and a bunch of Xbox360 stuff). For all the normal employees they take down their employee badge numbers and such for everything they buy, so I doubt anybody (let alone a lawyer) will want to get you cheap stuff.
emperor_awesome: I wasn't saying security wasn't important... The point I was making is that everyone is talking hypothetically towards what sort of viruses and malware can be made, yet I haven't heard of anything. Maybe we'll see once Vista is available for the general public.
Vista does have lots of security stuff built into the OS... In fact at times it can be almost too secure/annoying at times when it flashes too many UAC icons or my biggest pet peeve right now is every time I open Visual Studio it asks for permission (because I'm running it in Administrator mode to ensure full compatibility until SP1 for VS is out of beta for Vista).
Microsoft has done a great job trying to make Vista secure. In fact they took it to Blackhat last year and basically held a competition with all of the hackers there to see who could hack Vista using all default settings. Somebody did end up cracking it, but all of the holes which were exposed there are almost guaranteed closed.
TBH, I'm really trying not to outright defend Microsoft... I'm just thinking that you guys are being way way way too stereotypical right now towards them. Agreed that MS does have a track record for this sort of stuff, but they are definitely changing for the better on proving everybody wrong... I guess we'll see in 15 days how it holds up when Vista ships <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
*Edit* Comprox: Well ultimately it's your choice, and waiting never hurt anyone <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> If you have a spare hard drive though and want to try dual-booting, if you get a Vista Install DVD you can use it for 30 days "for free" without needing to activate it. During that period if you end up liking it, you buy it and activate it using your new product key... Or else you could always just format Vista away and stick with XP until DX10 becomes mainstream or the next, hopefully improved, version of Windows comes out.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If this had been done by Linus Torvalds, Steve
Jobs, Alan Cox, or Theo de Raadt, I'd have said the same thing about it. As
far as I'm concerned computers are tools to get a job done and not a platform
for religious wars, and if something's bad I'll say so regardless of who's
doing it. Just for the record I run various versions of Windows on ...
[counting] ... seven of my machines (the rest are a mixture of Linux, FreeBSD,
and occasionally Solaris), so I'd be a rather unlikely Microsoft detractor if
I have their software all over my machines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bullsh*t, if any of messrs Torvalds, Jobs, Cox, or de Raadt would have made Vista (or an equivilent), then he be screaming for their blood as well.
Oh, the majority of Microsoft bashers run Windows too. Because it's the only OS that will do pretty much everything for them.
And anyone actually reading the guys dissertation of Vista in it's entirety (which I actually was bored enough to do...), would see it's a speculative, inaccurate, insufficiently source, and heavily biased argument. No actual counterpoints to anything. Is this guy seriously telling us that he cannot find a counterpoint to his moaning, or a fix that was developed for anything in his piece, or did he not look properly?
Speculation does NOT make for a basis of a dissertation of technology.
[edit] I just thought I'd clarify that the article I linked earlier is not in fact an article, it's a published and peer reviewed paper out of the CS department of the Auckland university of New Zealand (read New Zealand's top university) by professor Peter Guttman. Which all the more means at very least I think someone should attemt to adress the points raised.
I liked <a href="http://www.dasmirnov.net/blog/2006/12/31/windows_vista_drm_nonsense" target="_blank">http://www.dasmirnov.net/blog/2006/12/31/w...ta_drm_nonsense</a> This article, it clarifies the point of one issue, that the DRM system isn't really something microsoft exclusive, it's something that microsoft is tailoring to that he Guttman sees as a bad idea in general, which is fair enough. Anyone else have point/counterpoint articles to further clarify the issue? I'm still really concerned about the security aspect.