moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
edited January 2007
<!--quoteo(post=1598030:date=Jan 12 2007, 01:50 PM:name=Rob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rob @ Jan 12 2007, 01:50 PM) [snapback]1598030[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Coal and natural gas are technically oil family products. The equipment used to fish the salmon is run on oil, the equipment used to transport the salmon to refinery and distribution centers is run on oil. The plants that refine and distribute are probably powered by coal, and that coal is mined and brought to the power plants by oil based machines. The car you use to goto the store to get the salmon is run on oil.
Even if you're using nuclear power, the machines to locate, extract, and refine the nuclear material used in the reaction is run on oil. The trucks that bring the material to the plant are run on oil.
Without oil, we're stuck to foot traffic and hand-tooled labor, unless someone who's really smart has a plan to cost effectively upgrade all machinery in the US to run on alternate fuel. It may just be a simple small change to get the ball rolling, but you still have to spend money to find it. Right now, there's no incentive to find it. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The people running the equipment used to fish the salmon need food to live, the people that run the equipment used to transport the salmon to refinery and distribution centers need food to live. The plants that refine and distribute are probably powered by coal, and that coal is mined and brought to the power plants by people that need food running oil based machines. The car you use to goto the store to get the salmon is run on oil, but the person driving the car needs food.
Even if you're using nuclear power, the people running the machines to locate, extract, and refine the nuclear material used in the reaction need food. The people driving the trucks that bring the material to the plant need food.
Without food, we're dead, unless someone who's really smart has a plan to cost effectively upgrade all humans in the US to run on alternate fuel. It may just be a simple small change to get the ball rolling, but you still have to spend money to find it. Right now, there's no incentive to find it. . . .
Therefore, I declare that all production of any kind be halted to make FOOD! Any decision that makes more food and less other stuff is a good one! See how silly it sounds?
<!--quoteo(post=1598858:date=Jan 15 2007, 03:42 PM:name=moultano)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(moultano @ Jan 15 2007, 03:42 PM) [snapback]1598858[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> The people running the equipment used to fish the salmon need food to live, the people that run the equipment used to transport the salmon to refinery and distribution centers need food to live. The plants that refine and distribute are probably powered by coal, and that coal is mined and brought to the power plants by people that need food running oil based machines. The car you use to goto the store to get the salmon is run on oil, but the person driving the car needs food.
Even if you're using nuclear power, the people running the machines to locate, extract, and refine the nuclear material used in the reaction need food. The people driving the trucks that bring the material to the plant need food.
Without food, we're dead, unless someone who's really smart has a plan to cost effectively upgrade all humans in the US to run on alternate fuel. It may just be a simple small change to get the ball rolling, but you still have to spend money to find it. Right now, there's no incentive to find it. . . . Therefore, I declare that all production of any kind be halted to make FOOD! Any decision that makes more food and less other stuff is a good one! See how silly it sounds? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->corn, vegetables or even tuna fish can be alternatives to feed up everyone. can you name a available alternative energy to power up the economic machine fully?
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
edited January 2007
<!--quoteo(post=1598910:date=Jan 15 2007, 07:47 AM:name=Lofung)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Lofung @ Jan 15 2007, 07:47 AM) [snapback]1598910[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> corn, vegetables or even tuna fish can be alternatives to feed up everyone. can you name a available alternative energy to power up the economic machine fully? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That post was <i>dripping</i> with sarcasm.
Also, salmon is delicious. Oil is not. Therefore, salmon > oil. You may not disagree with me unless you are prepared to drink a can of fossil oil to back up your claims. I may allow you to eat processed oil, such as plastic bags.
Also, I propose the groundbreaking theory that human civilisation may have existed before the advent of widespread use of fossil oil.
<!--quoteo(post=1598009:date=Jan 12 2007, 06:05 PM:name=GreyFlcn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GreyFlcn @ Jan 12 2007, 06:05 PM) [snapback]1598009[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Ford and GM have had to lay off hundreds of thousands of workers. Exxon etc have had higher profits than any company ever.
Meanwhile the excess oil sitting in the ground gets more and more valuable. I think we could stand to see that happen. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think it's just they're motorizing and using robots to make more of the production process than ever before and technology is advancing, so they're cutting their costs laying off workers. I don't think it is that they can't afford the human workers, just the guys at the top want more money.
<!--quoteo(post=1598921:date=Jan 15 2007, 08:53 AM:name=moultano)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(moultano @ Jan 15 2007, 08:53 AM) [snapback]1598921[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> That post was <i>dripping</i> with sarcasm. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, and yours wasn't? Pot calling the kettle black, eh?
About the post in question, I fail to see a point in it. Yeah, we need food to live. Our current economy needs oil. This is not silly at all. People seem to be underestimating just how important oil is to industry, economy, and, you guessed it, food supply.
And, besides. There are many different kinds of food, like there are many different kinds of fuel. In fact, food <i>is</i> a fuel. Your mockery of my post would be more accurate if everyone in the US only ever ate, say, some rare tropical fruit. We could defiantly find a way to produce or procure other, more varying kinds of food, but our entire population ate this fruit. Now, unless we find some way to get another kind of food in here, which for some reason is perceived as difficult to do, we're basically forced to exploit every resource we have to get that specific fruit. If that means turning South America into a wasteland in order to get fields which grow this fruit, then, well, it's us or them, right?
That's not quite as silly, is it?
[edit]We're also not facing a lack of food supply. The government actually pays off farmers who can't sell grain because the market's flooded.[/edit]
I think he DID mean his own post, Rob, not Lofung's.
And it's true, globally we are currently producing more food than we could eat. Even with some people eating far more food than what's healthy for them, we still have far more food than we need, globally. Which is what makes famine all the more tragic. I still prefer salmon to oil though. mmm, salmon.
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
edited January 2007
<!--quoteo(post=1599130:date=Jan 15 2007, 09:19 PM:name=Rob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rob @ Jan 15 2007, 09:19 PM) [snapback]1599130[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Yeah, and yours wasn't? Pot calling the kettle black, eh? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was talking about my own post! Saying that we should discontinue everything but food production is COMPLETELY SILLY! I was being facetious! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> I was trying to show how saying we should discontinue anything that conflicts with oil production is equally as silly. What we should be doing is comparing the societal benefits, and the best way we have of measuring societal benefits is dollar value + dollar value of externalities.
Comments
Coal and natural gas are technically oil family products. The equipment used to fish the salmon is run on oil, the equipment used to transport the salmon to refinery and distribution centers is run on oil. The plants that refine and distribute are probably powered by coal, and that coal is mined and brought to the power plants by oil based machines. The car you use to goto the store to get the salmon is run on oil.
Even if you're using nuclear power, the machines to locate, extract, and refine the nuclear material used in the reaction is run on oil. The trucks that bring the material to the plant are run on oil.
Without oil, we're stuck to foot traffic and hand-tooled labor, unless someone who's really smart has a plan to cost effectively upgrade all machinery in the US to run on alternate fuel. It may just be a simple small change to get the ball rolling, but you still have to spend money to find it. Right now, there's no incentive to find it.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The people running the equipment used to fish the salmon need food to live, the people that run the equipment used to transport the salmon to refinery and distribution centers need food to live. The plants that refine and distribute are probably powered by coal, and that coal is mined and brought to the power plants by people that need food running oil based machines. The car you use to goto the store to get the salmon is run on oil, but the person driving the car needs food.
Even if you're using nuclear power, the people running the machines to locate, extract, and refine the nuclear material used in the reaction need food. The people driving the trucks that bring the material to the plant need food.
Without food, we're dead, unless someone who's really smart has a plan to cost effectively upgrade all humans in the US to run on alternate fuel. It may just be a simple small change to get the ball rolling, but you still have to spend money to find it. Right now, there's no incentive to find it.
. . .
Therefore, I declare that all production of any kind be halted to make FOOD! Any decision that makes more food and less other stuff is a good one!
See how silly it sounds?
The people running the equipment used to fish the salmon need food to live, the people that run the equipment used to transport the salmon to refinery and distribution centers need food to live. The plants that refine and distribute are probably powered by coal, and that coal is mined and brought to the power plants by people that need food running oil based machines. The car you use to goto the store to get the salmon is run on oil, but the person driving the car needs food.
Even if you're using nuclear power, the people running the machines to locate, extract, and refine the nuclear material used in the reaction need food. The people driving the trucks that bring the material to the plant need food.
Without food, we're dead, unless someone who's really smart has a plan to cost effectively upgrade all humans in the US to run on alternate fuel. It may just be a simple small change to get the ball rolling, but you still have to spend money to find it. Right now, there's no incentive to find it.
. . .
Therefore, I declare that all production of any kind be halted to make FOOD! Any decision that makes more food and less other stuff is a good one!
See how silly it sounds?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->corn, vegetables or even tuna fish can be alternatives to feed up everyone. can you name a available alternative energy to power up the economic machine fully?
corn, vegetables or even tuna fish can be alternatives to feed up everyone. can you name a available alternative energy to power up the economic machine fully?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That post was <i>dripping</i> with sarcasm.
Also, I propose the groundbreaking theory that human civilisation may have existed before the advent of widespread use of fossil oil.
Ford and GM have had to lay off hundreds of thousands of workers.
Exxon etc have had higher profits than any company ever.
Meanwhile the excess oil sitting in the ground gets more and more valuable.
I think we could stand to see that happen.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think it's just they're motorizing and using robots to make more of the production process than ever before and technology is advancing, so they're cutting their costs laying off workers. I don't think it is that they can't afford the human workers, just the guys at the top want more money.
That post was <i>dripping</i> with sarcasm.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, and yours wasn't? Pot calling the kettle black, eh?
About the post in question, I fail to see a point in it. Yeah, we need food to live. Our current economy needs oil. This is not silly at all. People seem to be underestimating just how important oil is to industry, economy, and, you guessed it, food supply.
And, besides. There are many different kinds of food, like there are many different kinds of fuel. In fact, food <i>is</i> a fuel. Your mockery of my post would be more accurate if everyone in the US only ever ate, say, some rare tropical fruit. We could defiantly find a way to produce or procure other, more varying kinds of food, but our entire population ate this fruit. Now, unless we find some way to get another kind of food in here, which for some reason is perceived as difficult to do, we're basically forced to exploit every resource we have to get that specific fruit. If that means turning South America into a wasteland in order to get fields which grow this fruit, then, well, it's us or them, right?
That's not quite as silly, is it?
[edit]We're also not facing a lack of food supply. The government actually pays off farmers who can't sell grain because the market's flooded.[/edit]
And it's true, globally we are currently producing more food than we could eat. Even with some people eating far more food than what's healthy for them, we still have far more food than we need, globally. Which is what makes famine all the more tragic. I still prefer salmon to oil though. mmm, salmon.
Yeah, and yours wasn't? Pot calling the kettle black, eh?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was talking about my own post! Saying that we should discontinue everything but food production is COMPLETELY SILLY! I was being facetious! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> I was trying to show how saying we should discontinue anything that conflicts with oil production is equally as silly. What we should be doing is comparing the societal benefits, and the best way we have of measuring societal benefits is dollar value + dollar value of externalities.