Mines...
Lost3
Join Date: 2003-12-09 Member: 24181Members
Join Date: 2003-12-09 Member: 24181Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Crunchy outside, High Explosive inside</div> After seeing the topic thrown about and discussed on the board over the last few day in verious topics, I decided to really to observe mines use in NS. When I commed I made a concerted effort to avoid electrification when possible and use mines to protect ips, structures, and vents. Additionally I made it a point to let other Commander run the show and try and get them to use the same mine techniques that have been talked about on the board. Though of course, I didn't mention this to them, that would spoil it. Given most other factors, team-size, skill, the amount of caffiene in my blood system; mines seem to be an excellent tool for most applications. We had one map were we mined quite a bit. The comm got it into his head that random mines throughout the map would really irritate the traveling aliens (true). Skulks would trod on mines in completely random spots and be very paranoid about stepping anywhere. Eventually that game came to use placing mines all over the ground of their remianing hive. The spawned into a mine field... it was a kodak moment. Sadly my camera is busted and I forgot to take a screenshot so you'll have to imagine it for yourselves.
The point being that I encourage all you aspiring Comms and Grunts to give this a try;namely when in doubt, mine it. Then tou come back and let us know how it went. What worked what didn't. I think instead of discussing tatics extensively (like we do) if we tried out these various ideas and then reported back our results we could come up with a much cleared idea and reliable idea of what Comms should do. Theories are great, but application matter more afterall.
The point being that I encourage all you aspiring Comms and Grunts to give this a try;namely when in doubt, mine it. Then tou come back and let us know how it went. What worked what didn't. I think instead of discussing tatics extensively (like we do) if we tried out these various ideas and then reported back our results we could come up with a much cleared idea and reliable idea of what Comms should do. Theories are great, but application matter more afterall.
Comments
Also:
<span style='color:yellow'>O</span> If the map you are playing on has several well-travelled vents or crawl-spaces, mines will block them off completely, forcing aliens to take the same hallways as your marines.
<span style='color:yellow'>O</span> Aliens can only defuse mines in the early game with gorge spit or carapace self-detonation, which takes effort most aliens aren't willing to expend.
<span style='color:yellow'>O</span> See picture for mine-ladder example</span>
I had a hilarious game with mines...
On ns_caged, I handed out 1 pack of mines to one of my trusted regulars, he placed them around the IP, and then the skulks do a unconcerted rush to my base. About 6 of them die, and then I hand out another pack, 5 more die. Then I hand out my last pack, and about 3 died.
After that, no other skulk even bothered to come NEAR our base, it was farking hilarious.
We won, by the way (due to my superior comm skills, of course).
Stupid annoying don't know how to place mine marines. Hate them to hell.
Aliens!!
"They're going to start seeing those sentry guns everywhere"
Or in this case, MINES!
Very effective at stalling the rush of some aliens, but you'll see a lot of suicide skulks rushing them in order to clear the path for gorges, onos, etc.
Great on blind turns, vents, narrow openings, and of course dropping just under empty nodes so that passing gorges explode. Mines are very handy, and can disrupt the alien game plan quite a bit.... mostly.
Also, once your base grows beyond a structure or two, a pack of mines will be obscured completely by the surrounding buildings.
Next, I'll do phasegate-mining.</span>
Random aliens started dying and I placed them in sneaky places
Hehe, it was real fun until the fades came :X
Mines stop being very useful after the early game, the first five minutes or so. This is the time when things matter the most. Thirty res for 12 mines will be paid back in no time, especially because mines are harder to see, and skulks will die to them more often. However, even at late game, if the only enemies you're seeing are skulks without carapace, mines will do the trick. Just put them where aliens go, or use them as area-denial weapons. And of course, mines being the sinister devices they are, once placed they will last <span style='color:yellow'><b>FOREVAR</b></span> until an alien either: 1) has a skill which can detonate them harmlessly, 2) runs over them and dies, 3) runs over them and get damaged and distracted for a moment.
Instead of a phasegate and turret factory, drop a phasegate, armory, and a couple mine packs. It costs around the same, takes MUCH less time to set up, and frees your attention for other things. Another plus for Armory/Mines over TF/Turrets is that it's much easier for marines to shoot targets and dodge around without turrets all over the place blocking their line of fire. Not to mention the nearby armory can dispense ammo and healthpacks for FREE, as well as let you drop additional mines right there at the phasegate, or a shotgun or two if a fade shows up. This is INFINITELY BETTER than handing out shotguns or mines at base, since soldiers get what they need the moment they need it, instead of phasing back to base and humping the armory for some extra shells too. Additionally, mines kill skulks DEAD. One big bang and they're gone. Turrets peck away at skulks, letting them manage to kill one or two marines before going down. With mines, they don't even get close. You don't even have to SHOOT at the skulks half the time unless they get smart and try to wall climb, since they die even at full health when they hit a mine.
It's kind of like handing out shotguns, except better in every way possible the majority of the time.
And now, phasegates!</span>
On to another thought, just how much damage does a mine do? We know that 1 mine can kill a regular skulk, what about a carapaced one? If not how much is health is left? What about lerks? Fades? While mines won't kill the higher life forms right off, they make weaken them quite a bit. Especially with fades, where every point of health taken off is a BIG help, mines might be useful for trapping and killing aliens.
Best rule of thumb is to always keep an eye on any mineshaped activity - make sure there's still mines left or be sure to retaliate if the aliens are doing a concerted assault.
Mines are very good whistleblowers, which in turn discourages alien aggression if every mine they detonate triggers a rapid response shotty team (of course they can turn this to their favour by baiting your team into appearing, but as stated above the best option is to keep an eye on whats happening).
Carapace can be useful to suicide for mines, since a cara skulk can take one for the team by removing two mines quickly for any buddies following behind him. One or two cara skulks usually means that the mines did what they could, and you're going to need to get a marine over there to take care of business fast, and maybe put down another pack of mines. Again, mines get less and less useful the longer you wait to use them in a game, since the aliens get faster and better ways to shoot down mines as they expand. In the rare case where you get a game that doesn't start with the aliens dropping DC, mines will keep killing skulks until they DO get DCs, usually for the second hive. If you've been taking advantage of the fact that the skulks have no defense against well placed mines the whole time though, it'll be a miracle if they DO get the second hive going.
Another fun thing about mines is that with alien teams that have a low level of communication, you can have a skulk that KNOWS there are mines on the RT he's biting, and his teammate skulk won't know any better, come by to help bite the RT, trigger a mine, and kill the both of them. It's a classic burn on the aliens, and sometimes it'll break the alien team down even more if you have one of those totally anal guys on aliens who spazzes out when he dies or his teammates are fools. He'll start shouting over the mic and do the trashtalking for you. :D Since he's on the alien team, you won't even have to listen while he bashes his teammates playing skills.</span>
If marines used mines all the time, then aliens would eventually learn to deal with it, and it wouldn't be as effective (as in, if it became as popular as defense first).
Edit: Disregard this post. See reasons below.
It`s funny that the mine has never been discussed until now and thanks to lost! for this great thread this is the reason we read forums.
If marines used mines all the time, then aliens would eventually learn to deal with it, and it wouldn't be as effective (as in, if it became as popular as defense first). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You do have a point here. Though <b><i>any</i></b> tactic or strategy will eventually have the aliens come up with a counter to it. I don't really think that this strategy is a bad one at all. It directly impacts on the whole rez protection/electrification/early skulk rush problem for marines, and thats have the game right there. I'm quite sure the aliens will wise up someday and learn how to counter it effectively but, it will have to be a 1 hive counter to be really effective, mines really matter early on remember. So it'll probably be suiciding skulks, gorges stomping on mines to clear them or the carapace skulk trying to take them out one at a time. After fades appear, they get less useful but can still be quite useful. I think at the very least this tactic/strategy can help the Comm lead the aliens down a certain way of playing. And if a Comm can force the aliens to act a certain way, he can craft his plans to beat them more easily. Though it is important to realize that the aliens will find a counter some day, they will find counters to nearly any strategy. I don't think this one has been fully play-tested or used enough yet for the aliens to come up with the counter yet, however. Though I do think they will counter with the way above... maybe even roves of skulks using parasite to clear mines (I think it will set them off eventually). I am starting to think and talk in circular arguments here, so I'll stop before I keep repeating myself.
What are u talking about? Mines are the primary defense for bases in clan games. Everytime a pg is dropped, mines are dropped to cover it. The probability of seeing mines in a clan game is probably higher than seeing DCs first, which should tell you a lot.
Mines aren't known for sitting in spawn spamming chat for shirtgons.
1.) block him inside with your marines somehow... every second counts
2.) Have a marine drop a good old fashioned "onos trap" IE: tons of mines in a small spot and pray the the majikal god of NS that the fade nails it on the way in (followed by a quick burst of weapons fire to finish him) or on the way out (weak from weapons fire).
Fades just have to much control over the engagements... they can chose to end the fighting whenever they want (IE: Blink away).
Mines get affected by weapon upgrades too, so that's a bonus. That they give RFK also defrays their cost.
Mines at a siege outpost are very good at killing fades. A standard fade usually retreats at about 50% health. 2 packs of mines in the area, and him detonating 3 of them will kill him. The explosions also obscure vision, so he can't swipe / run effectively. Throw in a shotgun and hive-killing siege ends up being a anything killing siege. A HMG or 2 will clear out any onos as well.