I was thinking of a vent to Refinery as aliens don't have any choice but go through either :
- Main Aft Junction. This place is just right next to marine start, making it a high-risk area. This is the only way for an Onos to get out of Engine Room to Refinery. - Vents to Feedwater, then RLH (Run Like Hell) to Refinery. This is time consuming, and most probably time-consuming.
And while we're at the subject of vents, a vent leading from Feedwater to Refinery wouldn't hurt. After all, a good vent system should be maintained to increase the element of surprise and survival for aliens. This especially goes for Engine Room, as when you start there, you can have 2 marines attacking your newly built hive at Refinery, 2 camping at Main Aft and 1 defending the vents (if I've missed the changed for vents near marine elevator, I apologize)
feedwater to refinery was something i was thinking about adding, i'm also thinking a vent from the hole in feedwater to tram tunnel.
Also, for those not aware yet but tram tunnel now has about 7 vent entrances in it all the way along, no one seems to have noticed that yet and people got very confused when i blinked into one as a fade and disapeered.
<!--QuoteBegin-Mendasp+Apr 25 2004, 09:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mendasp @ Apr 25 2004, 09:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Xale+Apr 25 2004, 08:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Xale @ Apr 25 2004, 08:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->1rst engine : Like "maintenance" in eclipse, and like "ventilation in origin" : onos has only one way, skulk are defenceless
2nd Marine start :
the elevator is use-less, remove it, change it, or make the MS's floor low <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> We know the engine problems, we just didn't have time to move the hive and add a second exit for it.
Well, the elevator makes the marines able to get into the vents, so they aren't all that useless <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> yes, but with other solutions your will be able to join the vent without a stupid elevator...
And for engine : why not a ress between "N" Corridor and engine ??
Bast is the best map ever. I love you guys. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I liked one of the earlier suggestions in this thread about taking the floor out of the rotating door (the floor would stay still, like a rotating door in real life). At least, assuming that it's not used to move cargo around (just a little realism thing). BTW, is there an entity that prohibits the placement of structures and buildings in-game? Or is that a special brush? Because the "real" rotating door would need one so it wouldn't be blocked by chambers.
There's also the floor texture error where you sound like you're running on dirt if you walk on the black-yellow warning stripe near the Marine Spawn elevator. At least, somebody told me that it was a texture error (something along the lines of footstep sounds being assigned to textures, I believe).
Final suggestion: the stairs leading from Main Aft Junction towards Engine Room, do they still have the hole in them that the steps go over but the floor doesn't? Many a time I've gestated and fallen through the stairs (even though I really should learn not to), and chambers have a tendancy to sink as well. Could you change that a bit?
And a comment on the layout change: the only change I found were a few new vents and the Engine area being rotated around 90 degrees. Was there anything else I missed?
Great job! Keep it up. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Too many res towers in wide open areas or down long corridors. Even as an experienced bunny hoppers, I found marines had a lot of time whip their knives, take their time aiming and load a clip (more like 6 bullets) into me.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->My only complaint is the overall brightness of the map. I remember the old bast being quite a bit darker and scary, which is why I loved it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Most people don't. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> The partial reason why Eclipse and Veil are so popular (and why Nancy is so unpopular) is because there is a nice balance between contrasts. IMO, Bast is now closer to it. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Can't think anything negative to say, except maybe -just maybe- the fact that almost every relocate is done to atmos. I think that N-tunnel vent should be made a bit easier for lerk... nothing more fun than sporing rines out of a very, very bad relocate location. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> Currently, lerk has to fly down to shoot and that is just suicidal.
Real men relocate to main aft <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The Underwater tunnel connecting Feedwater to Refinery just seems so plain. I'd suggest changing it to an octagonal shape, similar to Tram tunnel. Perhaps add some debris or infestation webbing.
Refinery - I've always hated how open this hive area is. Its possible to hit the hive from the other side, even with grenades if you arc them right. I'd suggest hollowing out that massive column beside the hive, and moving the hive INSIDE. This makes the hive less venerable to excessivly ranged attacks.
Feedwater - So bright, so green. Tone it down a bit. Darker, more orange. I like the new upper area, but again too bright, and the tunnel/vent leading to it seems to plain. Break it up a bit, add infestation webbing.
Catwalk of death - I forget the name, but its the area right outside of Main Aft, a catwalk leading over an abyss. I've seen gorges build chambers down there, usualy hidden from marines. Could be a balance issue, but not terribly hard to hit as marine.
Move Engine hive away from Marine start. I dont' have an issue with making the approach to Engine seigable from MS, but the Hive Room itself shoudln't be.
Main Aft is still too much of a choke point, particulary if the Kharaa start in Engine. Please add those planned vents.
x I'm not sure if this was mentioned already, but the button for the "door" over at main aft junction is broke, you need to push it two times in order to open it, something thats really bad if the marines decide to relocate to main aft <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
x Feedwater is too green, I just looked at the 1.0x and 2.0x versions of it, and it was way less green =)
x I like the removed ress spot down by tram tunnel, and the databank one which is now at the lift <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
x Engine is still the worst hive to start with as alien, especially if the marines decide to relocate to main aft. We have to see how those new vents work out, but I believe they could greatly improve the situation.
x I support the idea of removing the floor of the revolving door, because right now you can easily crush your team mates that stand behind you <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I think that the first thing that needs to be fixed is the engine hive, the idea of the new vent that links refinery is good, maybe it should be a corridor, that let the onos another way to escape.
Another idea can be to relocate the main aft res behind the door, that can force the marines to get into the hive and not to simply spawncamp behind the door.
The feedwater hive is fine, and the refinery hive too.
Maybe the base elevator should be setup as broken, and let it stay at the marine base high. This would force the onos to use the rotating room, and maybe compense the new easy acces to the comand console. It also frees entitys.
I think that the main aft elevator should be set up as broken too. The marines dont use the elevators, only the onos use them. Im not sure what would exactly happend, if the engine hive is corrected and if the main aft elevator become broken. It can give an advantage to the marines to extend themself through the mainaft zone at the end of the long games, or maybe, the change just make the onos take the ladder scorted by skulks or fades. But i think that this will give some necesary advantage to the marines if the engine hive is corrected.
gL Mendasp, u are a h4x0r. Map was the first map i played, and i have missed it a lot, make the ambientation a bit darker btw
<!--QuoteBegin-Guspaz+Apr 25 2004, 01:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Guspaz @ Apr 25 2004, 01:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> About putting the vents behind the second (unusable) airlock outside of marine start...
I've always secretly hoped that eventually another room would be put back there and the second airlock would become usable. Those vents (unless they were to run at a higher altitude than the airlock, which is certainly possible) would seem to preclude the addition of future expansions there. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> 2nded
I have but ONE complaint about the new ns_bast, Mendasp. It's about the readyroom. Or, more specifically that <i>irritating as hell alarm!</i> Please, please please remove it or turn in way down.
Other than that, bast = t3h pwn!
[EDIT] Unless you put that alarm there to stop readyroom camping; in which case it works <i>great</i> on me. I haven't spent more than 3/10ths of a second in the RR since bast was released.
<!--QuoteBegin-Chapukwuk+May 3 2004, 11:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Chapukwuk @ May 3 2004, 11:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think the vents in this map are too marine-accessable. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Same.
Comments
First map I ever played on was bast. I cried everyday when it was taken out.
Excellent remake.
Thanks
I was thinking of a vent to Refinery as aliens don't have any choice but go through either :
- Main Aft Junction. This place is just right next to marine start, making it a high-risk area. This is the only way for an Onos to get out of Engine Room to Refinery.
- Vents to Feedwater, then RLH (Run Like Hell) to Refinery. This is time consuming, and most probably time-consuming.
And while we're at the subject of vents, a vent leading from Feedwater to Refinery wouldn't hurt. After all, a good vent system should be maintained to increase the element of surprise and survival for aliens. This especially goes for Engine Room, as when you start there, you can have 2 marines attacking your newly built hive at Refinery, 2 camping at Main Aft and 1 defending the vents (if I've missed the changed for vents near marine elevator, I apologize)
Also, for those not aware yet but tram tunnel now has about 7 vent entrances in it all the way along, no one seems to have noticed that yet and people got very confused when i blinked into one as a fade and disapeered.
Like "maintenance" in eclipse, and like "ventilation in origin" : onos has only one way, skulk are defenceless
2nd Marine start :
the elevator is use-less, remove it, change it, or make the MS's floor low
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We know the engine problems, we just didn't have time to move the hive and add a second exit for it.
Well, the elevator makes the marines able to get into the vents, so they aren't all that useless <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
yes, but with other solutions your will be able to join the vent without a stupid elevator...
And for engine : why not a ress between "N" Corridor and engine ??
I liked one of the earlier suggestions in this thread about taking the floor out of the rotating door (the floor would stay still, like a rotating door in real life). At least, assuming that it's not used to move cargo around (just a little realism thing). BTW, is there an entity that prohibits the placement of structures and buildings in-game? Or is that a special brush? Because the "real" rotating door would need one so it wouldn't be blocked by chambers.
There's also the floor texture error where you sound like you're running on dirt if you walk on the black-yellow warning stripe near the Marine Spawn elevator. At least, somebody told me that it was a texture error (something along the lines of footstep sounds being assigned to textures, I believe).
Final suggestion: the stairs leading from Main Aft Junction towards Engine Room, do they still have the hole in them that the steps go over but the floor doesn't? Many a time I've gestated and fallen through the stairs (even though I really should learn not to), and chambers have a tendancy to sink as well. Could you change that a bit?
And a comment on the layout change: the only change I found were a few new vents and the Engine area being rotated around 90 degrees. Was there anything else I missed?
Great job! Keep it up. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
edit: oh and add air pockets to the water tunnle
Most people don't. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> The partial reason why Eclipse and Veil are so popular (and why Nancy is so unpopular) is because there is a nice balance between contrasts. IMO, Bast is now closer to it. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Can't think anything negative to say, except maybe -just maybe- the fact that almost every relocate is done to atmos. I think that N-tunnel vent should be made a bit easier for lerk... nothing more fun than sporing rines out of a very, very bad relocate location. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> Currently, lerk has to fly down to shoot and that is just suicidal.
Or above Feedwater hive <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
And when that fails... swim. Swim for glory!
The Underwater tunnel connecting Feedwater to Refinery just seems so plain. I'd suggest changing it to an octagonal shape, similar to Tram tunnel. Perhaps add some debris or infestation webbing.
Refinery - I've always hated how open this hive area is. Its possible to hit the hive from the other side, even with grenades if you arc them right. I'd suggest hollowing out that massive column beside the hive, and moving the hive INSIDE. This makes the hive less venerable to excessivly ranged attacks.
Feedwater - So bright, so green. Tone it down a bit. Darker, more orange. I like the new upper area, but again too bright, and the tunnel/vent leading to it seems to plain. Break it up a bit, add infestation webbing.
Catwalk of death - I forget the name, but its the area right outside of Main Aft, a catwalk leading over an abyss. I've seen gorges build chambers down there, usualy hidden from marines. Could be a balance issue, but not terribly hard to hit as marine.
Move Engine hive away from Marine start. I dont' have an issue with making the approach to Engine seigable from MS, but the Hive Room itself shoudln't be.
Main Aft is still too much of a choke point, particulary if the Kharaa start in Engine. Please add those planned vents.
Otherwise its a good start on a classic map.
x Feedwater is too green, I just looked at the 1.0x and 2.0x versions of it, and it was way less green =)
x I like the removed ress spot down by tram tunnel, and the databank one which is now at the lift <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
x Engine is still the worst hive to start with as alien, especially if the marines decide to relocate to main aft. We have to see how those new vents work out, but I believe they could greatly improve the situation.
x I support the idea of removing the floor of the revolving door, because right now you can easily crush your team mates that stand behind you <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Another idea can be to relocate the main aft res behind the door, that can force the marines to get into the hive and not to simply spawncamp behind the door.
The feedwater hive is fine, and the refinery hive too.
Maybe the base elevator should be setup as broken, and let it stay at the marine base high. This would force the onos to use the rotating room, and maybe compense the new easy acces to the comand console. It also frees entitys.
I think that the main aft elevator should be set up as broken too. The marines dont use the elevators, only the onos use them. Im not sure what would exactly happend, if the engine hive is corrected and if the main aft elevator become broken. It can give an advantage to the marines to extend themself through the mainaft zone at the end of the long games, or maybe, the change just make the onos take the ladder scorted by skulks or fades. But i think that this will give some necesary advantage to the marines if the engine hive is corrected.
gL Mendasp, u are a h4x0r. Map was the first map i played, and i have missed it a lot, make the ambientation a bit darker btw
at least 1 or the other. whichever is more streamlined for 3.0
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
yes. that too XD
I've always secretly hoped that eventually another room would be put back there and the second airlock would become usable. Those vents (unless they were to run at a higher altitude than the airlock, which is certainly possible) would seem to preclude the addition of future expansions there. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
2nded
Other than that, bast = t3h pwn!
[EDIT] Unless you put that alarm there to stop readyroom camping; in which case it works <i>great</i> on me. I haven't spent more than 3/10ths of a second in the RR since bast was released.
Same.