No one. No one created God. God exists, He always has and always will.
Logically, it is not possible for someone to create something more advanced then themselves. So to say that someone created an all-powerful all-knowing god doesn't make sense. Also, why would a more all-powerful, more all-knowing god create a lesser god and then disappear?
Who created matter? Who created energy? Who set the universe spinning? <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--> I know who. It's easier (and more logical) to believe that an all-powerful being created those things rather then to believe they spontaneously appeared.
Mike
P.S. In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. Gen 1:1
I disagree, it is more likely that inanimate objects came into existence out of nothing than an all powerful being. I find it easier to believe that the universe just existed than a super intelegent all knowing all powerfull being, religion only adds another step to the equation, let me demonstrate: Relgion=God>Universe>Earth>Humans Science=Universe>Earth>Humans Which is easier? And it is possible to creating beings more advanced than yourself, because in the future man will do just that.
"I disagree, it is more likely that inanimate objects came into existence out of nothing than an all powerful being."
How did this happen? Why don't inanimate objects still pop out of nowhere?
Your statement- "Science=Universe>Earth>Humans"
Why is this easier to believe when it requires believing in a proven impossibility?
Also, let me use something Dr. Hovind came up with. The earth is slowly slowing down in its rotation- about 1 second every year. If the earth is 4.5-6 billion years old, and dinosaurs (and whatever else) were on this earth 3 billion odd years ago- the earth would have been spinning so fast that they all would have been flung off it. No point here, just something to think about.
Big Bang- when an object is spinning, let's use a merry-go-round, all the kids on it are spinning with it, yes? Say, clockwise. If that merry-go-round spins so fast that the kids are thrown off, then all those kids will also be spinning clockwise. Now, if the small ball of matter, before the Big Bang, was spinning clockwise (think thats the way) then all the planets and solar systems and galaxies that were spun off of it would also be sent spinning clockwise. Now, why do some planets spin clockwise, and some counter-clockwise (can't remember which are which, sorry! ), and why does Uranus spin on its side? Also, why does <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/02/08/oddball.galaxy/" target="_blank">this galaxy</a> spin backwards?
<!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--> That's all for now. Mike
P.S. I would suggest that time is infinite in both directions, or as Einstein put it- time is relative to the human observer. I don't know what to say about the universe being infinite in both directions.
That infinite/looping universe is actually a Hindu belief. Though there are several scientific phenomenons that suggest one definite beggining. I have read much on this topic and watched several shows.
Alright Dinger, Intersting points as usual. First the "Why dosen't matter pop out of nowhere?" I ask you "Why don't gods pop out of nowhere anymore?". In negating mine you negated your own. Now for the Earths spin question, this one is rather easy, it is simple, who says the Earths spin rate is stable and unchanging? The Earth and the Suns mass were not the same then, thus affecting the rate of spin. There are far too many changing variables for that equation to be proved. First of all what makes you think that all the galaxies were pre-made when they were spun off from the central mass? Also our perception of spin is inatley wrong becase we too are spinning, if Earh was the center of the universe then this may be proveable. Again there are far too many changing and unknown factors for your statement to be proveable.
I think we've reached a standstill on the origin of matter. So I am going to let that one go.
Ahh, but if you compute the size of the sun from billions of years back, it would have been, lets say, a little bit larger from all the matter its burned off since then. In being that big, wouldn't it have pulled in planets in tighter concentric circles, or burned them off. An object in motion stays in motion etc... So if the sun were that much bigger, exerting that much more gravity on all the planets, wouldn't they all have crashed into the sun by now, or just completely burned up? If at one point the earth started getting drawn towards the sun, then it would still be pulling towards the sun. Edit- [Ignore my foolishness, it's late and I am not thinking straight]
Granted our perspective from the spinning earth makes things a bit more difficult, but- if the ball of matter (back to big bang) was spinning before it exploded into the universe, then everything would have spun off in the same rotation. Even from our perspective on a spinning planet, we can tell that not everything is spinning in the same direction as it should. Not to mention why there are differing speeds in planet rotation and revolutions.
One more thing (I like to bring up a new point), even though I really don't want to bring evolution into this that much. Why don't we have tails? If we evolved, and lost our tails somewhere, why did we lose our tails? I think having a tail would be awesome (and useful). We'd have much better senses of balance, and be able to play computer and drink soda at the same time!! <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo--> Ok, I'm just weird.
<!--QuoteBegin--Spooge+Oct. 29 2002,20:56--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Spooge @ Oct. 29 2002,20:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->The interesting thing about both the Creation and the Big Bang theories is that both had a starting point. There was a beginning.
What if there wasn't a beginning? What if the universe and/or time is infinite in both directions?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Uncaused cause. Basicly, you don't get an effect w/o a cause. People use it all the time to say "What caused the Big Bang?", in hopes of stumping people into accepting whatever theistic religion they are pushing.
However, it's a double edged sword. "Who created God?" the atheist says.
Does this matter? My personal belief is that if it did, then it would be placed in the bible, as I refuse to believe that a world that produced such thinkers as Socrates and Aristotle could ignore this question, and I refuse to believe that if it was important, it would not be mentioned in any of the 66 books of the bible.
Basicly, God says he is the beginning and the end. Weatehr that is the beginning or end of all time, or our time, I do not know, but in either case, the span of time is too great to go into semantics over.
I believe he is there. You can ask him yourself where he came from in a few decades, but until then it takes second place to the teachings and beliefs of the rest of the bible.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ahh, but if you compute the size of the sun from billions of years back, it would have been, lets say, a little bit larger from all the matter its burned off since then. In being that big, wouldn't it have pulled in planets in tighter concentric circles, or burned them off. An object in motion stays in motion etc... So if the sun were that much bigger, exerting that much more gravity on all the planets, wouldn't they all have crashed into the sun by now, or just completely burned up? If at one point the earth started getting drawn towards the sun, then it would still be pulling towards the sun.
Granted our perspective from the spinning earth makes things a bit more difficult, but- if the ball of matter (back to big bang) was spinning before it exploded into the universe, then everything would have spun off in the same rotation. Even from our perspective on a spinning planet, we can tell that not everything is spinning in the same direction as it should. Not to mention why there are differing speeds in planet rotation and revolutions.
One more thing (I like to bring up a new point), even though I really don't want to bring evolution into this that much. Why don't we have tails? If we evolved, and lost our tails somewhere, why did we lose our tails? I think having a tail would be awesome (and useful). We'd have much better senses of balance, and be able to play computer and drink soda at the same time. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
*Sigh* the sun does not "Burn off" matter. Matter/energy can never be created or destroyed. Instead Hydrogen gets fused into Helium, and so on. Electron bonds are made and broken, and energy is released. Matter gets converted into massivle ammounts of energy, so it really would have been negligable given the scale of the celestial bodies.
First of all dinger, I am not a physicist, secondly What exactly are you getting at? Please name the exact origin you believe in and I will be glad to debate with you, right now I see none, all you do is try to deny theories without giving your own. And some links to your sources would be nice.
I am one of those people who beleive the earth is only 6,000 or so yrs old.
Also, I don't mean to get into an arguement, but the fact that the earth is slowing down now can be measured now. We have not a record of saying that the earth was spinning X times per year X billions of yrs ago, This is faith.
I know some of you might think these are biased creationist points, but I personally do not think they are biased and if you want to look at a different point of view, I would segjest this web site. Almost all science textbooks are biased and assume that lots of evolution are accepted as general fact. I do not mean for this to turn into a creation/evolution debate, just puting this since some people were talking about the subject.
I´m a Christian and I´ve been a gamer since I turned 5. I don´t believe in a higher being really. Not yet atleast. But that´s just how I see things and I truly respect all the other peoples views of things.
Personally I beleive in science and retain certain Satanic views (Anton LaVey). I don't beleive in God as an entitiy so there he/she/it does not cast judgement on me. When I die I will return to energy, not remembering any of which I have learned in my life. I beleive that life is your conscience breaking away from God. We are all fragments of the same final energy. All as one. Life is a battle to convince yourself that you are an individual. At the moment of death we realize truely that we are of God and return to contribute to his/she/its energy. We will not retain memeries of love/hate/sadness/etc. because they are all just physical chemical reactions in our brains, which will be dead/rotten.
Depressing yet comfortably reassuring, in a way.
.... And then again what does it matter what I think.
Something someone told me when I was young that I thought was interesting: "From God's mind, from a single thought, existence was berthed and baptized in fire. From that thought many came afterwards, bringing with them the stars, the planets, and the darkness. The darkness engulfed everything and did make day on all planets as night, but God manifested himself physically in his imagination and banished the light. He then set about to create his life where there was but death. From there, evolution took over and we ended up here." Again, this is something I heard, not a religious belief of mine (but it is extremely plausable).
Ok, reguarding The Big Bang and creation of the universe. There has always been the small flaw that the Big Bang had to have been innitiated by something. I was reading a book, I believe it was Steven Hawkings new one "The Universe in a Nutshell," and it described a way for it to happen.
Before I jump in there- we have to touch on the random creation of "matter" and "anti-matter" particles. If you consider "nothing" to be composed of a posative and a negative, that's what we're dealing with. Normally they split apart, then attract one another again and collide, resolving back into "nothing."
If I remember correctly, the particles could possibly have a violent reaction- so that they continuted to split nothing into "posative" and "negative" halves. It happened so fast, in a sphereical shape, that the size grew exponentially ever thousandth of a second- or perhaps faster. The speed of which this happened was faster than it took for the particles to attract and collide back into "nothing," and therefore continued to expand into the known universe. While the odds of this expansive reaction happening were so minisculous that it rivaled that of an electrons mass- if you have infinite time anything can happen right? Just like thatthousand monkeys punching on typewriters will evenentually compose the entire work of shakespear. Same deal here.
This is directly related to the Theory of Relativity. You know, Matter is Posative, Gravity is Negative. And that the net Matter/Gravity in the universe adds up to 0. Therefore, we are nothing- so it's not so hard to say we came from nothing.
They have done tests- recreated the environment (vaccuum, I would suppose) and check.. well Polarity I think. I don't remember.. I need that book. Blah. Anyway, evidence heavily favors the "Matter"-"Antimatter" split does happen. Wouldn't that suck if the violent reaction occured again during the testing? It'd totally tear apart and recreate existence.
Longtooth- it's simple what I believe. I believe that God created everything in 7 days. Everything I produced was just things I think point towards God's existence. I am going to stop here and say we have a draw because I don't have any arguments I think will convince you of God's existence. Beyond that, arguing about my beliefs is a moot point as everything I believe is based on God.
Bronto- That's a really cool link! I've bookmarked it and I'll have to spend more time looking at it down the road.
And finally, to do my part in pointing this thread back to where it started. I am a Christian and don't have a problem with violent video games. I've played video games for as long as I can remember.
I find it insaneley impossible for everything on this Earth to have been created in 7 days 7000 years ago. Where did the dinosaurs come from? What of Neanderthals and prehumans? What about the Earths geology?
<!--QuoteBegin--Longtooth+Oct. 30 2002,20:15--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Longtooth @ Oct. 30 2002,20:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->I find it insaneley impossible for everything on this Earth to have been created in 7 days 7000 years ago. Where did the dinosaurs come from? What of Neanderthals and prehumans? What about the Earths geology?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Some people believe that days mean creation periods, IE, could mean anything from 24 hours to a million years.
<!--QuoteBegin--Legionnaired+Oct. 30 2002,21:30--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Legionnaired @ Oct. 30 2002,21:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Some people believe that days mean creation periods, IE, could mean anything from 24 hours to a million years.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> So basically people invent things to cover up New York Time's Best Seller <b>Tom Clancy's The Bible</b>'s many plot holes! Kind of like in Alien 3 when the face hugger impregnates 2 lifeforms before dying, "Well...it's a super face hugger!"
Indeed Bill Indeed. That is how many theists protect the Bible, they say it can be interprited in many ways. Then again the text has been edited and re-writen so many times who knows what it means any more?
Wow, Im impressed. I barely thought this would get past 5 replies, let alone 141! Keep up the good work everyone, you are all truly showing me how much this community shines!! Shine on! <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->
Blessed Be the destroyers of false hope, for they are the true Messiahs - Cursed are the God-adorers, they shall be shorn sheep.
Blessed Be the man whose foot is swift to serve a friend, for he is a friend indeed - Cursed are the organizers of religious dogma, for they they are propagators of plagues.
Blessed Be those who steal fire from the Gods for they are the great liberators. Cursed are those who forever follow their shepherd for they will remain as frightened sheep.
<b><u>Blessed Be the skeptical for they will uncover lies. Cursed are those who follow in blind faith for they SHALL BE USED.</b></u>
as far as I know... he may have gotten them from some where else. as i said i retain many satanic views.
regardless if your christian or not i think you should read the satanic bible. i has much intellegence. I dont accept everything it says but the guy says what we are all thinking most of the time. i am rambling now....
I know alot of satanists ad christians and the like, I am a human, but that is besides the point. I was wondering dosen't the term "satanic" in the christian world mean having to do with the devil? The way I see it used by most satanists I know seems more agnostic or atheist.
satanism is a way of life, not a religious beleif structure.
satan stands for opposition, difference, change.
it is more the beleif that we are all gods. what i stated in my first post was a way to view god and the after from a satanic point of veiw. being a satanist is about looking at things objectively and taking control of your life and YOUR OWN ACTIONS. christians and other religions tend to scapegoat and blame third parties for their own actions. for instance, if a woman spills coffee on her lap it is her own damn fault and stupidity. She shouldnt be able to sue mcdonalds for millions because there was no warning. SHE IS A **obscenity** MORON. she blamed her stupid actions on someone else. that is what satanism is for me. taking control of your life and responsibility for it. no one can make me do anything. i am in charge of myself.
I was at church on some sunday or other. My girlfriend's parents were hardcore Christians.. so I thought maybe this would get on their good side and at the same time possibly correct my views of the Christian world that seemed to be based on general comments made by others.
Well, the pastor is going on about one thing or another- and starts to attack other religions. He called Wiccans Satan worshipers- and they are evil or what not.. blah blah blah. I tensed. Erin (affore mentioned gf) realized this, and knew that I was friends with Wiccans and highly respected them. They were wonderful people and every last one of them had a warm heart and open mind.
The arrogance of some christians to me is astounding- to say that they worship the devil. The devil has no place in Wiccan beliefs, it's a chirstian belief. Get over yourself. This offended and angered me greatly- it was all I could do to keep from walking out in the middle of his preaching.
My stories relevance: Don't blindly assume you know what a belief system is just by the name. When Dez said he followed satanic views- my knee-jerk reaction was "OMG, he's a hateful devil worshipper!" After that moment passed and logic refitted itself, I knew the general assumption was false. I'm outright surprised I didn't see any Christions pounce on him, wielding crosses and thumping bibles.
All I'm really getting at: do some research before attacking things. I know that hasn't happened here. I'm impressed. But I still like to make that point- especially since we have an onsalught of new people to the forums.
Comments
Logically, it is not possible for someone to create something more advanced then themselves. So to say that someone created an all-powerful all-knowing god doesn't make sense. Also, why would a more all-powerful, more all-knowing god create a lesser god and then disappear?
Who created matter? Who created energy? Who set the universe spinning? <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--> I know who. It's easier (and more logical) to believe that an all-powerful being created those things rather then to believe they spontaneously appeared.
Mike
P.S. In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. Gen 1:1
Relgion=God>Universe>Earth>Humans
Science=Universe>Earth>Humans
Which is easier?
And it is possible to creating beings more advanced than yourself, because in the future man will do just that.
What if there wasn't a beginning? What if the universe and/or time is infinite in both directions?
How did this happen? Why don't inanimate objects still pop out of nowhere?
Your statement- "Science=Universe>Earth>Humans"
Why is this easier to believe when it requires believing in a proven impossibility?
Also, let me use something Dr. Hovind came up with. The earth is slowly slowing down in its rotation- about 1 second every year. If the earth is 4.5-6 billion years old, and dinosaurs (and whatever else) were on this earth 3 billion odd years ago- the earth would have been spinning so fast that they all would have been flung off it. No point here, just something to think about.
Big Bang- when an object is spinning, let's use a merry-go-round, all the kids on it are spinning with it, yes? Say, clockwise. If that merry-go-round spins so fast that the kids are thrown off, then all those kids will also be spinning clockwise. Now, if the small ball of matter, before the Big Bang, was spinning clockwise (think thats the way) then all the planets and solar systems and galaxies that were spun off of it would also be sent spinning clockwise. Now, why do some planets spin clockwise, and some counter-clockwise (can't remember which are which, sorry! ), and why does Uranus spin on its side? Also, why does <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/02/08/oddball.galaxy/" target="_blank">this galaxy</a> spin backwards?
<!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--> That's all for now.
Mike
P.S. I would suggest that time is infinite in both directions, or as Einstein put it- time is relative to the human observer. I don't know what to say about the universe being infinite in both directions.
Edit- used some bad grammar
Intersting points as usual. First the "Why dosen't matter pop out of nowhere?" I ask you "Why don't gods pop out of nowhere anymore?". In negating mine you negated your own.
Now for the Earths spin question, this one is rather easy, it is simple, who says the Earths spin rate is stable and unchanging? The Earth and the Suns mass were not the same then, thus affecting the rate of spin. There are far too many changing variables for that equation to be proved.
First of all what makes you think that all the galaxies were pre-made when they were spun off from the central mass? Also our perception of spin is inatley wrong becase we too are spinning, if Earh was the center of the universe then this may be proveable. Again there are far too many changing and unknown factors for your statement to be proveable.
Ahh, but if you compute the size of the sun from billions of years back, it would have been, lets say, a little bit larger from all the matter its burned off since then. In being that big, wouldn't it have pulled in planets in tighter concentric circles, or burned them off. An object in motion stays in motion etc... So if the sun were that much bigger, exerting that much more gravity on all the planets, wouldn't they all have crashed into the sun by now, or just completely burned up? If at one point the earth started getting drawn towards the sun, then it would still be pulling towards the sun. Edit- [Ignore my foolishness, it's late and I am not thinking straight]
Granted our perspective from the spinning earth makes things a bit more difficult, but- if the ball of matter (back to big bang) was spinning before it exploded into the universe, then everything would have spun off in the same rotation. Even from our perspective on a spinning planet, we can tell that not everything is spinning in the same direction as it should. Not to mention why there are differing speeds in planet rotation and revolutions.
One more thing (I like to bring up a new point), even though I really don't want to bring evolution into this that much. Why don't we have tails? If we evolved, and lost our tails somewhere, why did we lose our tails? I think having a tail would be awesome (and useful). We'd have much better senses of balance, and be able to play computer and drink soda at the same time!! <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo--> Ok, I'm just weird.
Mike
What if there wasn't a beginning? What if the universe and/or time is infinite in both directions?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uncaused cause. Basicly, you don't get an effect w/o a cause. People use it all the time to say "What caused the Big Bang?", in hopes of stumping people into accepting whatever theistic religion they are pushing.
However, it's a double edged sword. "Who created God?" the atheist says.
Does this matter? My personal belief is that if it did, then it would be placed in the bible, as I refuse to believe that a world that produced such thinkers as Socrates and Aristotle could ignore this question, and I refuse to believe that if it was important, it would not be mentioned in any of the 66 books of the bible.
Basicly, God says he is the beginning and the end. Weatehr that is the beginning or end of all time, or our time, I do not know, but in either case, the span of time is too great to go into semantics over.
I believe he is there. You can ask him yourself where he came from in a few decades, but until then it takes second place to the teachings and beliefs of the rest of the bible.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ahh, but if you compute the size of the sun from billions of years back, it would have been, lets say, a little bit larger from all the matter its burned off since then. In being that big, wouldn't it have pulled in planets in tighter concentric circles, or burned them off. An object in motion stays in motion etc... So if the sun were that much bigger, exerting that much more gravity on all the planets, wouldn't they all have crashed into the sun by now, or just completely burned up? If at one point the earth started getting drawn towards the sun, then it would still be pulling towards the sun.
Granted our perspective from the spinning earth makes things a bit more difficult, but- if the ball of matter (back to big bang) was spinning before it exploded into the universe, then everything would have spun off in the same rotation. Even from our perspective on a spinning planet, we can tell that not everything is spinning in the same direction as it should. Not to mention why there are differing speeds in planet rotation and revolutions.
One more thing (I like to bring up a new point), even though I really don't want to bring evolution into this that much. Why don't we have tails? If we evolved, and lost our tails somewhere, why did we lose our tails? I think having a tail would be awesome (and useful). We'd have much better senses of balance, and be able to play computer and drink soda at the same time. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
*Sigh* the sun does not "Burn off" matter. Matter/energy can never be created or destroyed. Instead Hydrogen gets fused into Helium, and so on. Electron bonds are made and broken, and energy is released. Matter gets converted into massivle ammounts of energy, so it really would have been negligable given the scale of the celestial bodies.
Also, I don't mean to get into an arguement, but the fact that the earth is slowing down now can be measured now. We have not a record of saying that the earth was spinning X times per year X billions of yrs ago, This is faith.
I know some of you might think these are biased creationist points, but I personally do not think they are biased and if you want to look at a different point of view, I would segjest this web site. Almost all science textbooks are biased and assume that lots of evolution are accepted as general fact. I do not mean for this to turn into a creation/evolution debate, just puting this since some people were talking about the subject.
<a href="http://www.creationscience.com/" target="_blank">http://www.creationscience.com/</a>
Personally I beleive in science and retain certain Satanic views (Anton LaVey). I don't beleive in God as an entitiy so there he/she/it does not cast judgement on me. When I die I will return to energy, not remembering any of which I have learned in my life. I beleive that life is your conscience breaking away from God. We are all fragments of the same final energy. All as one. Life is a battle to convince yourself that you are an individual. At the moment of death we realize truely that we are of God and return to contribute to his/she/its energy. We will not retain memeries of love/hate/sadness/etc. because they are all just physical chemical reactions in our brains, which will be dead/rotten.
Depressing yet comfortably reassuring, in a way.
.... And then again what does it matter what I think.
Ok, reguarding The Big Bang and creation of the universe. There has always been the small flaw that the Big Bang had to have been innitiated by something. I was reading a book, I believe it was Steven Hawkings new one "The Universe in a Nutshell," and it described a way for it to happen.
Before I jump in there- we have to touch on the random creation of "matter" and "anti-matter" particles. If you consider "nothing" to be composed of a posative and a negative, that's what we're dealing with. Normally they split apart, then attract one another again and collide, resolving back into "nothing."
If I remember correctly, the particles could possibly have a violent reaction- so that they continuted to split nothing into "posative" and "negative" halves. It happened so fast, in a sphereical shape, that the size grew exponentially ever thousandth of a second- or perhaps faster. The speed of which this happened was faster than it took for the particles to attract and collide back into "nothing," and therefore continued to expand into the known universe. While the odds of this expansive reaction happening were so minisculous that it rivaled that of an electrons mass- if you have infinite time anything can happen right? Just like thatthousand monkeys punching on typewriters will evenentually compose the entire work of shakespear. Same deal here.
This is directly related to the Theory of Relativity. You know, Matter is Posative, Gravity is Negative. And that the net Matter/Gravity in the universe adds up to 0. Therefore, we are nothing- so it's not so hard to say we came from nothing.
They have done tests- recreated the environment (vaccuum, I would suppose) and check.. well Polarity I think. I don't remember.. I need that book. Blah. Anyway, evidence heavily favors the "Matter"-"Antimatter" split does happen. Wouldn't that suck if the violent reaction occured again during the testing? It'd totally tear apart and recreate existence.
Longtooth- it's simple what I believe. I believe that God created everything in 7 days. Everything I produced was just things I think point towards God's existence. I am going to stop here and say we have a draw because I don't have any arguments I think will convince you of God's existence. Beyond that, arguing about my beliefs is a moot point as everything I believe is based on God.
Bronto- That's a really cool link! I've bookmarked it and I'll have to spend more time looking at it down the road.
And finally, to do my part in pointing this thread back to where it started. I am a Christian and don't have a problem with violent video games. I've played video games for as long as I can remember.
Mike
Some people believe that days mean creation periods, IE, could mean anything from 24 hours to a million years.
So basically people invent things to cover up New York Time's Best Seller <b>Tom Clancy's The Bible</b>'s many plot holes! Kind of like in Alien 3 when the face hugger impregnates 2 lifeforms before dying, "Well...it's a super face hugger!"
Blessed Be the man whose foot is swift to serve a friend, for he is a friend indeed - Cursed are the organizers of religious dogma, for they they are propagators of plagues.
Blessed Be those who steal fire from the Gods for they are the great liberators. Cursed are those who forever follow their shepherd for they will remain as frightened sheep.
<b><u>Blessed Be the skeptical for they will uncover lies. Cursed are those who follow in blind faith for they SHALL BE USED.</b></u>
Anton Szandor LaVey
as far as I know... he may have gotten them from some where else. as i said i retain many satanic views.
regardless if your christian or not i think you should read the satanic bible. i has much intellegence. I dont accept everything it says but the guy says what we are all thinking most of the time. i am rambling now....
satan stands for opposition, difference, change.
it is more the beleif that we are all gods. what i stated in my first post was a way to view god and the after from a satanic point of veiw. being a satanist is about looking at things objectively and taking control of your life and YOUR OWN ACTIONS. christians and other religions tend to scapegoat and blame third parties for their own actions. for instance, if a woman spills coffee on her lap it is her own damn fault and stupidity. She shouldnt be able to sue mcdonalds for millions because there was no warning. SHE IS A **obscenity** MORON. she blamed her stupid actions on someone else. that is what satanism is for me. taking control of your life and responsibility for it. no one can make me do anything. i am in charge of myself.
I was at church on some sunday or other. My girlfriend's parents were hardcore Christians.. so I thought maybe this would get on their good side and at the same time possibly correct my views of the Christian world that seemed to be based on general comments made by others.
Well, the pastor is going on about one thing or another- and starts to attack other religions. He called Wiccans Satan worshipers- and they are evil or what not.. blah blah blah. I tensed. Erin (affore mentioned gf) realized this, and knew that I was friends with Wiccans and highly respected them. They were wonderful people and every last one of them had a warm heart and open mind.
The arrogance of some christians to me is astounding- to say that they worship the devil. The devil has no place in Wiccan beliefs, it's a chirstian belief. Get over yourself. This offended and angered me greatly- it was all I could do to keep from walking out in the middle of his preaching.
My stories relevance: Don't blindly assume you know what a belief system is just by the name. When Dez said he followed satanic views- my knee-jerk reaction was "OMG, he's a hateful devil worshipper!" After that moment passed and logic refitted itself, I knew the general assumption was false. I'm outright surprised I didn't see any Christions pounce on him, wielding crosses and thumping bibles.
All I'm really getting at: do some research before attacking things. I know that hasn't happened here. I'm impressed. But I still like to make that point- especially since we have an onsalught of new people to the forums.