This is by far anything new or up coming. Sieging has always been considered cowardly, you could say, by probably most of players.
It is true most marines on public are pretty crap or dont fully know how everything works. If you get the marines going into the hive with hmgs, gls, etc. Well id probably say 99% of the time they all just let rip on the hive, fact is, hmg sucks on buildings. Now what should happen is anyone with a gl would destroy/attack generaly every structure around the hive and the hive its self while the marines with hmgs back them up killing any alien around. Its stupid how many hmg marines die from a couple of spawning skulks because a) they are shooting hive b) reloading because they were shooting hive. HMGs dont speed up hive death that much and most likely just gets your team killed instead of taking the hive out.
Shotguns are abit different though, they reload fast and eat on buildings like crazy so basicly just go mad with them.
gl on unupgraded armoury would be just wrong, there not just made for destroying structures but also for area denial. Anyway at the start of the game there is no problem of a lmg taking out an OC, which is wrong, where as when was the last time you seen a skulk take on a single turret on his own with no problem. seriously, atm OCs are just a joke. The only real use they have is to notify where the marines are but even then they have to shoot the OC. Your better off just filling a room with DCs and if a marine hits one fade goes there and just slaughters them while all these DCs are healing. Only drawback is the large build time. That is another odd thing, why is it quicker to build an SC than a DC. I would consider a SC rush on marine base more deadly than DC.
I take having the last hive sieged while im an alien as a compliment. When the commander has pretty much dominated the game then decides to siege the hive he's saying "I don't trust my marines to go in and kill the hive." Or in other words, he's worried they will be shamed into sieging cause their marines get owned by skulks when they come in.
The way I see it is this: if the Alien team has a lamed up hive and/or higher lifeforms, you're better off bulding an outpost and sieging the hive. If you have a combination of "heavy weapons" and either Heavy Armor or Jetpacks, or even one branch of tech on its own, don't bother sieging. It's really as simple as that; no strategy used by and intergalactic peace-keeping corp deserves to be labeled as cowardice, especially when it has the potential to backfire and costs a rather large investment of resources.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I personally think the whole concept of siege is retarded. It gives an utterly incompetent marine team the ability to destroy the objective, even if they suck so much they can't fight their way in there. Goes along with motion tracking and electricity as 'Stupidest features in a mod'. Maybe onos stomp should do 800 damage and go through walls so you can destroy the CC from the other side of a wall?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh really? Well you haven't seen my MOD yet or you would know that's nowhere near the stupidest feature in a MOD <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
Well what I meant by that is that, short of an auto-aim upgrade (which used to be in NS, ironically), the marine team is designed so that even the biggest smacktards on earth can win. The aliens have no 'easy mode'. Everything takes a ton of skill and finesse to use. Marines have wallhacks galore, autodefenses, and superweapons. Aliens have... hive 3... hahahahahahahhahahahahh.
The ENTIRE alien game rests on the fade alone. That's pretty freaking sad.
finally many people started saying what true, if an alien team gets sieged, its theirs fault. The siege cannon was made for that, so players shouldn´t start crying because of getting sieged, insted they should play good enough to have the cannon or the TF or the marines killed before the hive is destroyed!
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-007Bistromath+Jun 14 2004, 07:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (007Bistromath @ Jun 14 2004, 07:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Sieges still fail often enough that I'd call it a risky option. Depending on your equipment, it may in fact be the riskier one.
No, the only time when sieging has any "ethical" value attached with it at all is when you do it the way <i>I</i> do it. You see, I have a nasty habit of having my marines walk into the hive room and destroy everything in sight except the hive, so I can give it a twenty-one gun salute from point-blank. And that friends, is just wrong. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> but FUN!
personaly, I see nothing wrong with siege.
it is not much harder to take out a phase base going up outside of your hive then a rine rush into the hive.
All to often I see the state that Ajurian put up.
rine at port. rines are putting up phase at port. rines have a pg at port and ar starting a siege base. is any one gona help me friken stop them? *your hive is under attack* Aliens: OMG SIEGE SO LAME NOOB COMM!!!!
Siegeing is the tactic to use when it would cost more resources to assault the hive directally than to build up an outpost outside and siege it.
Usually directally attacking costs less, but if the aliens are well built up and "beefed" by the hive area it might cost less to build that base and have a few guard it. Siegeing isnt a cowards tactic.
Sieging is obnoxious and required on pub games, even with HA.
To get the marines to have the nerve to get near a hive for a PG is bad enough, to actually get an attack on the hive is insanity in pubs.
Sieges are overrated in pubs and annoy me, the one hive that is left with one fade and my 7 HA demand a siege and won't go in with all upgrades, med spam, AND ammo spam kinda annoys me.
I know their purpose but in most pubs there 'required' by the idiotic marines to kill a hive, this is what happens when you tell them this as a PG goes up.
A. Marines hump their new toys, PG eaten and a few enlighten marines with it. B. Somehow the marines all got through without the PG going bye bye, they attack the hive and die horrid deaths. C. Some go, some whine and everything goes down the drain.
sometimes seigeing is respectable, if not nessecary, but sometimes doing something like seiging a chamberless, player-less hive is such a crap tactic that it causes some ppl to quite...
sure doing things that the map was made to do (i.e. the famous seige maps) is ok, heck its expected of u to use the advantage, but doing things like seiging out generator (or a vent with 3 dc's in it) is a waste of res...
edit; plus all it takes is a gud jp/shottie to hit a hive... hecks anyone can do it, aslong as they protect their own skin from lerks (always lerks) and rememer to kill gorges
<!--QuoteBegin-EEK+Jun 15 2004, 02:53 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (EEK @ Jun 15 2004, 02:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> short of an auto-aim upgrade (which used to be in NS, ironically) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes and No. What you're thinking of is Overwatch where a typing Marine player or one that was AFK would automatically aim much in the same way as a turret in order to allow for greater communication.
Problem was it was a little too accurate and therefore overpowered.
Seiges are completely necesary on pubs. It just anoying when your team is too noob to defend and build a seige tf when they have heavy weapons and a pg with tf and turrets 10 m outside the hive. One marine asked for a pg inside the aliens other hive...and most of the rest were wandering around the map despite me doing my best to hint that they should maybe finnish this one off first, all i wanted was another tf to build seiges..but it was too hard for them. In short seiges rescue noob marine teams...except when they don't. In general seiges are to be avoided whenever possible, except in cases of stupidity or great defence.
Thansal, i could not agree more with you; Finally someone that thinks like i do!!! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-EEK+Jun 14 2004, 02:45 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (EEK @ Jun 14 2004, 02:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I personally think the whole concept of siege is retarded. It gives an utterly incompetent marine team the ability to destroy the objective, even if they suck so much they can't fight their way in there. Goes along with motion tracking and electricity as 'Stupidest features in a mod'. Maybe onos stomp should do 800 damage and go through walls so you can destroy the CC from the other side of a wall? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> my thoughts exactly
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-raz0r+Jun 15 2004, 01:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (raz0r @ Jun 15 2004, 01:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-EEK+Jun 14 2004, 02:45 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (EEK @ Jun 14 2004, 02:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I personally think the whole concept of siege is retarded. It gives an utterly incompetent marine team the ability to destroy the objective, even if they suck so much they can't fight their way in there. Goes along with motion tracking and electricity as 'Stupidest features in a mod'. Maybe onos stomp should do 800 damage and go through walls so you can destroy the CC from the other side of a wall? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> my thoughts exactly <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> ok, to get sorta derogitory here:
So, what do you want? a game with no strategy? no upgrades? should it just be skulk vs marine? possibly get rid of the commander? no hive upgrade? no new weapons?
If you don't like MT, they you obviously can't like SoF, or Parasite, or the hive mind at all.
and OH NO! Electricity, I think we should also remove Turrets and OCs!
oh, I got the best idea: every one has exactly the same weapons and then they charge at each other from opposite ends of the map. ALL that maters is yoyur leet skills at shooting people in the face.
/me grumbles I can understand problems with elec (As it can be anoying) but friken MT?
Laying down your argument and dissing CS at the same time, I love it <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-raz0r+Jun 15 2004, 01:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (raz0r @ Jun 15 2004, 01:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-EEK+Jun 14 2004, 02:45 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (EEK @ Jun 14 2004, 02:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I personally think the whole concept of siege is retarded. It gives an utterly incompetent marine team the ability to destroy the objective, even if they suck so much they can't fight their way in there. Goes along with motion tracking and electricity as 'Stupidest features in a mod'. Maybe onos stomp should do 800 damage and go through walls so you can destroy the CC from the other side of a wall? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> my thoughts exactly <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> marines and aliens have different playing ways
if you played them alot
you could see this really is not needed, it would be kinda boring trying to seige someone ealses seige :\
No offence, but people who see seiges as retarded/overpowered are one-sided, haven't been playing very long, and are usually posting this after they just lost because their hive got seiged. Seiging is a necessary tactic of a marine team, they cannot obviously rush into the hive itself because they will get slaughtered. Pinging is totally fair becuase it costs 15 energy points per ping which, even if you have a lot of obs, you will require many seige turrets to kill a hive/ocs in only 4-5 pings. The mentalitly behind the seige is that if your team sits idlely by while marines are constructing turrets/phase/seige then you DESERVE to lose. Seiging is never instanious and is usually set up by 3-4 marines which can be easily stopped by a skulk rush/ Fade. If the whole team does manage to rush to the seige place then you're screwed anyways, seige or no seige. Seiges are totally justified and fair (hence why they are STILL in the game after countless patches and 3 betas). They also have a good res cost ensuring that the comm can upgrade and drop seige with at least 50 res but also since they have low HP ensure that, unless properly supported by marines, that's 50 res down the drain. The ONLY thing I might have beef with seiges are their insanely high incidental damage. It does become quite annoying to spawn and die instantly after being splash damaged by a seige hit. Or to run back to the hive for healing as a fade and get seiged twice and die. The only thing I'd suggest is to keep incidental and splash damage but to make the SOLELY and explicitly attack structures and not players.
<!--QuoteBegin-Gerald R Ford+Jun 13 2004, 09:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gerald R Ford @ Jun 13 2004, 09:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> it's fine. if your team allowed itself to be sieged, then you're the ones to blame. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That is the stupidest response to anything.
It's like saying:
Well if you didn't check to see if there was a snake in your sleeping bag you deserve to die.
Well if you saw that hole in the ground you wouldn't have broken your foot.
Gawd.
A lot of times you never know they're building it, in a vent, or other places.
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
ninja sieging has almost compleatly vanished actualy.
Generaly sieges are put up right around the corner.
oh, and comparing loosing a competative game (where you are SUPOSED TO BE ON THE LOOK OUT TO THE OTHER TEAM TRYING TO BE SNEAKY!!) to acidentily steping in a pot hole, is a bad comparison <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
OMGZ!!! SKULZZ ARE SNEAKY!! NERF NERF NERF!
if you didn't look up when you walked through the door way, you deserver to die <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
sieging hive is no problem but sieging the lasst one big one, the fun is totally gone when you have enough res to get ha train and better weapons, no point of even sieging get ha and have fuun
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-ahho+Jun 15 2004, 05:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ahho @ Jun 15 2004, 05:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> sieging hive is no problem but sieging the lasst one big one, the fun is totally gone when you have enough res to get ha train and better weapons, no point of even sieging get ha and have fuun <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> yah know, I actualy realy hate that mentality.
Siege ends the game much faster then teching up and fully loading down your full team.
as some one who primarily plays aliens, I still hate the marine end game.
when i created this topic, i was not considering marines to have 500 resources and 9 rts. I was just saying that sieging a hive is a strategy that marines should use in order to win the game. As LITO said the objective is to destroy the hives so if you are able to do so by sieging then you SHULD do it. If you are not going to take advantage of the high tech of marines, why dont you just stay still at base and let the skuls eat the cc while you jump and shoot the roof. You´re gonna lose anyway..!
Comments
It is true most marines on public are pretty crap or dont fully know how everything works. If you get the marines going into the hive with hmgs, gls, etc. Well id probably say 99% of the time they all just let rip on the hive, fact is, hmg sucks on buildings. Now what should happen is anyone with a gl would destroy/attack generaly every structure around the hive and the hive its self while the marines with hmgs back them up killing any alien around. Its stupid how many hmg marines die from a couple of spawning skulks because a) they are shooting hive b) reloading because they were shooting hive. HMGs dont speed up hive death that much and most likely just gets your team killed instead of taking the hive out.
Shotguns are abit different though, they reload fast and eat on buildings like crazy so basicly just go mad with them.
gl on unupgraded armoury would be just wrong, there not just made for destroying structures but also for area denial. Anyway at the start of the game there is no problem of a lmg taking out an OC, which is wrong, where as when was the last time you seen a skulk take on a single turret on his own with no problem. seriously, atm OCs are just a joke. The only real use they have is to notify where the marines are but even then they have to shoot the OC. Your better off just filling a room with DCs and if a marine hits one fade goes there and just slaughters them while all these DCs are healing. Only drawback is the large build time. That is another odd thing, why is it quicker to build an SC than a DC. I would consider a SC rush on marine base more deadly than DC.
Oh really? Well you haven't seen my MOD yet or you would know that's nowhere near the stupidest feature in a MOD <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
The ENTIRE alien game rests on the fade alone. That's pretty freaking sad.
No, the only time when sieging has any "ethical" value attached with it at all is when you do it the way <i>I</i> do it. You see, I have a nasty habit of having my marines walk into the hive room and destroy everything in sight except the hive, so I can give it a twenty-one gun salute from point-blank. And that friends, is just wrong. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
but FUN!
personaly, I see nothing wrong with siege.
it is not much harder to take out a phase base going up outside of your hive then a rine rush into the hive.
All to often I see the state that Ajurian put up.
rine at port.
rines are putting up phase at port.
rines have a pg at port and ar starting a siege base.
is any one gona help me friken stop them?
*your hive is under attack*
Aliens: OMG SIEGE SO LAME NOOB COMM!!!!
Usually directally attacking costs less, but if the aliens are well built up and "beefed" by the hive area it might cost less to build that base and have a few guard it. Siegeing isnt a cowards tactic.
To get the marines to have the nerve to get near a hive for a PG is bad enough, to actually get an attack on the hive is insanity in pubs.
Sieges are overrated in pubs and annoy me, the one hive that is left with one fade and my 7 HA demand a siege and won't go in with all upgrades, med spam, AND ammo spam kinda annoys me.
I know their purpose but in most pubs there 'required' by the idiotic marines to kill a hive, this is what happens when you tell them this as a PG goes up.
A. Marines hump their new toys, PG eaten and a few enlighten marines with it.
B. Somehow the marines all got through without the PG going bye bye, they attack the hive and die horrid deaths.
C. Some go, some whine and everything goes down the drain.
That is why I'm playing combat for so long.
sure doing things that the map was made to do (i.e. the famous seige maps) is ok, heck its expected of u to use the advantage, but doing things like seiging out generator (or a vent with 3 dc's in it) is a waste of res...
edit; plus all it takes is a gud jp/shottie to hit a hive... hecks anyone can do it, aslong as they protect their own skin from lerks (always lerks) and rememer to kill gorges
i have done it like 5 times
or electifacation
it owns tbh
knifes are ok i guess
Yes and No. What you're thinking of is Overwatch where a typing Marine player or one that was AFK would automatically aim much in the same way as a turret in order to allow for greater communication.
Problem was it was a little too accurate and therefore overpowered.
now you can spend your rez on weapons/ha/jp/med/ammo for your rines to rush
AND THEN spend the rea to lock it down.
or you can just lock it down.
siege = dewer rez and you already controll the hive.
Assuming you can get your siege base up, if it goes down you just lost more rez then if your rush failed. its a tactic, with positive and negative.
people just think that b/c you can kill the hive from around the corner it is automaticly lame.
grow up.
my thoughts exactly
my thoughts exactly <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
ok, to get sorta derogitory here:
So, what do you want?
a game with no strategy?
no upgrades?
should it just be skulk vs marine?
possibly get rid of the commander?
no hive upgrade? no new weapons?
If you don't like MT, they you obviously can't like SoF, or Parasite, or the hive mind at all.
and OH NO! Electricity, I think we should also remove Turrets and OCs!
oh, I got the best idea:
every one has exactly the same weapons and then they charge at each other from opposite ends of the map.
ALL that maters is yoyur leet skills at shooting people in the face.
/me grumbles
I can understand problems with elec (As it can be anoying) but friken MT?
my thoughts exactly <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
marines and aliens have different playing ways
if you played them alot
you could see this really is not needed, it would be kinda boring trying to seige someone ealses seige :\
The ONLY thing I might have beef with seiges are their insanely high incidental damage. It does become quite annoying to spawn and die instantly after being splash damaged by a seige hit. Or to run back to the hive for healing as a fade and get seiged twice and die. The only thing I'd suggest is to keep incidental and splash damage but to make the SOLELY and explicitly attack structures and not players.
That is the stupidest response to anything.
It's like saying:
Well if you didn't check to see if there was a snake in your sleeping bag you deserve to die.
Well if you saw that hole in the ground you wouldn't have broken your foot.
Gawd.
A lot of times you never know they're building it, in a vent, or other places.
Generaly sieges are put up right around the corner.
oh, and comparing loosing a competative game (where you are SUPOSED TO BE ON THE LOOK OUT TO THE OTHER TEAM TRYING TO BE SNEAKY!!) to acidentily steping in a pot hole, is a bad comparison <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
OMGZ!!!
SKULZZ ARE SNEAKY!! NERF NERF NERF!
if you didn't look up when you walked through the door way, you deserver to die <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Shotgunning down the hive is a tactic that kills the hive.
Seiging the Hive is a tactic that kills the hive.
Whats the difference? Is one more cowardly than the other? Thats a matter of opinion. Does the hive die? Yes.
Why do people do it? Because they can.
The end justifies the means. No matter how you do it, the hive goes down. Too bad.
yah know, I actualy realy hate that mentality.
Siege ends the game much faster then teching up and fully loading down your full team.
as some one who primarily plays aliens, I still hate the marine end game.