<!--QuoteBegin-Firewater+Jul 4 2004, 01:50 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Firewater @ Jul 4 2004, 01:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I didn't know dev support was required to run a training program. If that were true BFTG wouldn't be in existence.
People were nasty to Vinin because they might felt that him explaining himself would imply that they were newb. Not many people want to acknowlege that they suck, or they are new. Some people just want to play the game, and thats ok. Some people want to practice to improve, which is also ok. Which is why we are going to do training sessions a few days a week. So that people who want to improve take an interest and make the first move to their improvement. We take care of the training, and anything else that is neccesary, to help people that want to learn.
Ok Luckee, my sig for about 4 years now is offensive (But true), so what do you suggest? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Support from the dev's isn't required, but I'm not going to deny the fact that it also makes things more comfortable when making an organistation. To be affiliated with the game itself is pretty nice. When you start to look at nsguides and nslearn comparitively (sp?) though discussing the merits or good/bad points comes hand in hand really though, dontcha think?
In regards to your training sessions, once again, these have already been ran in the past and we are also ressurecting these, as mentioned a few times in various places in the thread - you talk as if what you're doing is revolutionary. I see no conflicts of interest here, but at the same time I can't say that I personally agree with your attitudes, when comparing this situation to another guide group which was set up by some french players, called ns-acadamie we're going to be affiliating ourselves with them - linking to them for french players etc. But it's a shame (for the community) that the same won't be taking place between nslearn and nsguides.
As for your signature, well, I'm going to come round to this idea of attitude here, personally I don't agree with your attitude (note that isn't a flame). I just think that your signature sums it up. I'm not sure if this has been instigated by being rejected to be a guide from the nsguides program or what, but either way I don't think that public boards is where this should be discussed. If you want to discuss though feel free to e-mail me or PM me on the boards.
some vets can be really mean to them sometimes.....
when i started this game, nobody ever helped me. i asked and asked and asked some more, but everyone ignored me. took me 2 weeks to master the tech tree of the rines (ppl usually eject me like 2 minuits after i get in chair <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->), and one of the first few times i commed, i spent 10 minuits looking for a building called 'advanced armory' <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Firewater+Jul 4 2004, 01:50 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Firewater @ Jul 4 2004, 01:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I didn't know dev support was required to run a training program. If that were true BFTG wouldn't be in existence.
People were nasty to Vinin because they might felt that him explaining himself would imply that they were newb. Not many people want to acknowlege that they suck, or they are new. Some people just want to play the game, and thats ok. Some people want to practice to improve, which is also ok. Which is why we are going to do training sessions a few days a week. So that people who want to improve take an interest and make the first move to their improvement. We take care of the training, and anything else that is neccesary, to help people that want to learn.
Ok Luckee, my sig for about 4 years now is offensive (But true), so what do you suggest? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Do not bring BFTG into this. We dont need the drama.. BFTG is a tournament not a training program.
BTW.. Flayra supported BFTG.. Read the news.. Under b2 release.
<!--QuoteBegin-luckee+Jul 4 2004, 02:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (luckee @ Jul 4 2004, 02:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Firewater+Jul 4 2004, 01:50 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Firewater @ Jul 4 2004, 01:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I didn't know dev support was required to run a training program. If that were true BFTG wouldn't be in existence.
People were nasty to Vinin because they might felt that him explaining himself would imply that they were newb. Not many people want to acknowlege that they suck, or they are new. Some people just want to play the game, and thats ok. Some people want to practice to improve, which is also ok. Which is why we are going to do training sessions a few days a week. So that people who want to improve take an interest and make the first move to their improvement. We take care of the training, and anything else that is neccesary, to help people that want to learn.
Ok Luckee, my sig for about 4 years now is offensive (But true), so what do you suggest? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Support from the dev's isn't required, but I'm not going to deny the fact that it also makes things more comfortable when making an organistation. To be affiliated with the game itself is pretty nice. When you start to look at nsguides and nslearn comparitively (sp?) though discussing the merits or good/bad points comes hand in hand really though, dontcha think?
In regards to your training sessions, once again, these have already been ran in the past and we are also ressurecting these, as mentioned a few times in various places in the thread - you talk as if what you're doing is revolutionary. I see no conflicts of interest here, but at the same time I can't say that I personally agree with your attitudes, when comparing this situation to another guide group which was set up by some french players, called ns-acadamie we're going to be affiliating ourselves with them - linking to them for french players etc. But it's a shame (for the community) that the same won't be taking place between nslearn and nsguides.
As for your signature, well, I'm going to come round to this idea of attitude here, personally I don't agree with your attitude (note that isn't a flame). I just think that your signature sums it up. I'm not sure if this has been instigated by being rejected to be a guide from the nsguides program or what, but either way I don't think that public boards is where this should be discussed. If you want to discuss though feel free to e-mail me or PM me on the boards. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I just want it done right.
The fact that I or several other players who know the game as well as I do didn't even get an interview because of "x y and z", leads me to believe that the program is flawed, much like the first one was.
I already have a model on how to run my sessions. I experimented with it on a BFG practice, and I saw damn near instant improvement on people learning how to fade, and lerk and etc... I have 2 demos and a teamspeak recording waiting to be hosted.
Please continue to treat me different, as it is justified by CAL-Jared's remarks.
have fun with your program, I know I'm gonna have a blast with mine.
<!--QuoteBegin-Jane+Jul 4 2004, 01:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jane @ Jul 4 2004, 01:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-BobTheJanitor+Jul 2 2004, 11:11 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BobTheJanitor @ Jul 2 2004, 11:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-kuperaye+Jul 2 2004, 08:56 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kuperaye @ Jul 2 2004, 08:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-George_The_Gorge+Jul 2 2004, 08:54 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (George_The_Gorge @ Jul 2 2004, 08:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ns guides should be able to see other people's config files so they can know what key to tell them to press and what cvar to change. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> that could be easily abused by any clanner guides ... :/ <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> By stealing scripts off someone who's been playing for two days? You lost me there...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
p.s. I love your comment Bob, that was just awesome. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I think you both missed the point of kuperaye's post, in that if the guides were given the ability to look at someone's config, why wouldn't they go ahead and look into someone like <insert big scripter here>'s config file and take what they wanted. It would be easily abuseable and there's no denying that.
<!--QuoteBegin-antfarm007+Jul 4 2004, 06:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (antfarm007 @ Jul 4 2004, 06:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Jane+Jul 4 2004, 01:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jane @ Jul 4 2004, 01:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-BobTheJanitor+Jul 2 2004, 11:11 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BobTheJanitor @ Jul 2 2004, 11:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-kuperaye+Jul 2 2004, 08:56 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kuperaye @ Jul 2 2004, 08:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-George_The_Gorge+Jul 2 2004, 08:54 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (George_The_Gorge @ Jul 2 2004, 08:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ns guides should be able to see other people's config files so they can know what key to tell them to press and what cvar to change. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> that could be easily abused by any clanner guides ... :/ <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> By stealing scripts off someone who's been playing for two days? You lost me there...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
p.s. I love your comment Bob, that was just awesome. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think you both missed the point of kuperaye's post, in that if the guides were given the ability to look at someone's config, why wouldn't they go ahead and look into someone like <insert big scripter here>'s config file and take what they wanted. It would be easily abuseable and there's no denying that.
Cheers! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yea, I do not think it would be a good idea to view ppls configs.. If they are new.. They have not changed anything.. And if we think they have we can have them restore defaults..
BTW, Most of the top player's configs are public <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Nemesis Zero+Jul 3 2004, 09:17 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Jul 3 2004, 09:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm a little bewildered by your attitude here, Lorn.
Here we have a program that's currently in the progress of being set up, which means of course that there are not yet enough Guides around, but that's got direct support from the devs, as the icon and the re-activatable features (the green text should still be in the chat code, only not assigned to an auth-group) indicate, that's creating a whole hub for newbies, complete with a dedicated sub-site to ns.org, training servers, and a custom tailored map, that ensures that no jerks become Guides by the means of selection practices that <i>I</i> consider too harsh, and you keep poking on its flaws. Of course the program isn't perfect - it has not even fully launched yet. How about we wait six months until after it did, look at what it accomplished, and then discuss its merits? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Wow, gone for 2 days and so much to respond to.
Because already the programm has failed once. To take a second run at something, well you better damn well be doing a good job at it or else it will fail again, because it was no different than the first.
The point of this thread is to discuss the current flaws I see the NSGuide program to get an idea if it's actually going to have a chance at succeeding or not.
And yes, the requirements for being an NSGuide are totally out of whack, which I should explain further down.
Also, this thread was to establish idea's on how to fix programs, hopefully they may be fixed.
Deadly Flashlight:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Its true, I was a candidate for the guides program but I got the boot after I came into a server with the name "yuck yuck ima <f bomb>", and when asked to change my name, I changed it to "yuck yuck ima <modified f bomb>", and when asked again, I changed it to "yuck yuck ima fux". About two hours later I found out I was dropped. And I was pretty enthusiastic about becoming a guide and bringing new players into the game <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm gonna have to go with the NSGuides side here and say that's a pretty stupid thing to do. Why do you think they asked you to change your name the first time? Because they didn't like the word yuck?
lol jeez dude
Anyhow... at least they gave you a chance. I know they turned down many people simply because of their past record; this makes no sense to me as they should give almost everyone a chance but drop those who do not learn to comply with NSGuide rules.
Same principle as hiring for a job. Unless you have a ton of applications flowing in to meet your target amount, then I wouldn't suggest turning too many of them down.
The only real requirements should be knowledge and dedication. Personality easily changes on a situation, especially if the said person wishes to successful at their said enterprise. If someone doesn't believe this, then you've never seen a salesman.
Jojo:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You are so arrogant. You talk about how people THINK they know the game, but you are also one of those people. You dont understand the game is here to have fun and play it the way you want it to be played.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Last time I checked, playing the game is always to get better at it. Teching them the game so that they have fun is an arbitrary point, as their idea of fun could be dropping 4 ccs at the start of the game as commander. One perons's idea of fun may not be another.
However, we can all agree on one thing, and that is if people are playing the game <b>seriously</b>, they will naturally play it to be the best they can be.
Shanks:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Q: "What Do Nsguides Have Over Other Help Hands"
Here's your answer: An obligation to help. It really is as simple as that. Guides are 'on duty' so to speak all the time - if we are around, we are expected to help. We are expected to (an extent) leave other things and go out of our way to help.
You are not.
No one is saying you can't or shouldn't - you should be encouraged to - the more people that help out the better, but the simple difference is when you don't feel like helping, you don't have to. You can either tell the beginner to F-off, or just keep quiet and carry on acting as if they aren't there. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So joining the NSGuides is actually a limitation of how I can respond to people? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I mean, ns guides is going to have things in the setup installer (nice idea btw 'lorn),<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm glad someone is listening.
Jane:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Frolorn, first you say ?there's no guarentee that the person will be receptive to the green text? (Example #1), then upon learning that it has yet to be implemented you say that if we don?t have green text then all will be lost (Example #2). You are making points that are very contradictory. Is this post just to stir up some drama, or try to ruin a group of new player helpers before we are off our feet, or what? My comment to you is the same it has been to many others who say things like this, please give us a chance.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Frolorn has yet to post in this thread. Forlorn has yet to contridict himself. Notice, there is a large difference between being 'receptive' to something, "Get lost dude I don't care what you have to say!" vs. 'recognize', "What is that?".
Jane, by the way, if a new player was to ask you about scripting and how they could do it, what would you say?
Also, bunnyhopping as well?
These questions aren't to put you on the spot or trip you up, by the way. Just be honest.
This thread seems to be more about flaming the nsguides then actually giving suggestions in fixing the current program. Thats just my take on what has been happening here so far.
Explanation of NsGuides on install/help box's. More NsGuides. Interactive site listed in helpbox's in game. - Common strategys, tips, etc etc. - Faq guides - Config explanations - System Performance etc etc.
Just a basic idea of whats up in a game and how to make the most of it.
I know most/all arnt even my ideas and I proabably leaving out a ton but I believe its a good start.
Forlorn (I apologize for making your name be the only typo in the 2 page post I wrote), I might not know anything about scripting, but I have been playing for 2 years and there are other things I know about the game that I can share, I think that was a totally irreverent point. As for bhopping, if I am playing NS or on my computer, then Jojo will be playing or talking with me and I can have him show them how to bhop after I have explained to them what they need to do (this has already been the case 2-3 times, I'm smart enough to handle it, it's all good.) If you have any other concerns please do share, we'll be happy to console you.
<!--QuoteBegin-Jane+Jul 5 2004, 01:43 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jane @ Jul 5 2004, 01:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Forlorn (I apologize for making your name be the only typo in the 2 page post I wrote), I might not know anything about scripting, but I have been playing for 2 years and there are other things I know about the game that I can share, I think that was a totally irreverent point. As for bhopping, if I am playing NS or on my computer, then Jojo will be playing or talking with me and I can have him show them how to bhop after I have explained to them what they need to do (this has already been the case 2-3 times, I'm smart enough to handle it, it's all good.) If you have any other concerns please do share, we'll be happy to console you. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, actually the Frolorn thing was a joke, but I rarely uset smilies so there's no need to apologize. (just laugh...)
But,... okay, you don't know much about scripting, or bhopping, however, that's okay. The point I'm making here is that not all NSGuides may be perfect, and therefore if keep other people out of the program, such as people who lack a bit more of a 'friendly, perky, and peppy' attitude but know more other aspects of the game, why not take them instead?
As long as everyone has something to offer to the table then you have a high chance of succeeding with the programm.
However... I'll reserve comments to see the next batch of NSGuides are released, I just can't imagine seeing close to 200 fresh NSGuides all the with the same perfect perspectis on game player you wish seem to have.
Scripting and bunnyhopping, IMHO, shouldn't be a required part of the Guides' curriculum, so to speak. As far as I'm aware, the goal isn't to breed the most highly skilled playerbase possible to prepare everyone for scrims. It's to ease new players into the game more easily than the ruthless pub players do, and teach them to play it appropriately(i.e. working with their team, etc). I couldn't care less how well most people can aim or how fast they can bunnyhop. I don't play the game just to win and I don't look to play with the most skilled players possible. More important than that is basic communication and teamwork, and anything we could do to improve that aspect of the playerbase would do a lot for the pub scene and the future clan scene as well. If people want to become more skilled, that's something they can work on themselves.
Someone who is highly skilled but not willing to teach these aspects to new players should not be a Guide. I've seen skilled members of respectable clans join a pub server and save for Fade or whatever without uttering a word to their team. I've seen plenty of very skilled players just get **** off at a newbie who screwed something up, scare him away or kick/ban him. I don't want someone like that to be a Guide for new players, regardless of what valuable skills they can teach.
<!--QuoteBegin-Zek+Jul 5 2004, 02:00 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zek @ Jul 5 2004, 02:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Scripting and bunnyhopping, IMHO, shouldn't be a required part of the Guides' curriculum, so to speak. As far as I'm aware, the goal isn't to breed the most highly skilled playerbase possible to prepare everyone for scrims. It's to ease new players into the game more easily than the ruthless pub players do, and teach them to play it appropriately(i.e. working with their team, etc). I couldn't care less how well most people can aim or how fast they can bunnyhop. I don't play the game just to win and I don't look to play with the most skilled players possible. More important than that is basic communication and teamwork, and anything we could do to improve that aspect of the playerbase would do a lot for the pub scene and the future clan scene as well. If people want to become more skilled, that's something they can work on themselves.
Someone who is highly skilled but not willing to teach these aspects to new players should not be a Guide. I've seen skilled members of respectable clans join a pub server and save for Fade or whatever without uttering a word to their team. I've seen plenty of very skilled players just get **** off at a newbie who screwed something up, scare him away or kick/ban him. I don't want someone like that to be a Guide for new players, regardless of what valuable skills they can teach. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Anyhow... at least they gave you a chance. I know they turned down many people simply because of their past record; this makes no sense to me as they should give almost everyone a chance but drop those who do not learn to comply with NSGuide rules.
Same principle as hiring for a job. Unless you have a ton of applications flowing in to meet your target amount, then I wouldn't suggest turning too many of them down.
The only real requirements should be knowledge and dedication. Personality easily changes on a situation, especially if the said person wishes to successful at their said enterprise. If someone doesn't believe this, then you've never seen a salesman.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But personality is everything. You can't force someone to listen to you, and all the qualifications of a Guide would be worthless if they don't have the charisma to get people to go along with them. Since it sounds like Guides will always be on the job, someone who isn't appropriate for it on their own can't be expected to maintain a good attitude all the time just because of the icon next to their name. Quite frankly there are a lot of people in the NS community, myself not necessarily excluded, who don't know how to give advice without rubbing people the wrong way, to varying degrees of course.
That is how I plan to run my sessions for #NSlearn. Whether NSguides uses that session model is up to them.
Its a good download, we actually went over fading with someone who wasn't comfortable fading, now he is. You can watch his skill evolve right before your eyes if you watch this demo.
I plan on doing these kind of things hopefully 3 times a week.
My staff is full of top competitive players, that will be paitent with people and do their best to get newer players to learn how to play better.
<!--QuoteBegin-Buggy+Jul 5 2004, 12:13 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Buggy @ Jul 5 2004, 12:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm worried about the people being NSguides rather than the program itself
Ive heard/seen two NSGuides CC block fades/onos, defending themselves with comments like "its a legal tactic"...Meh? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Seconded.
It's all very well recruiting a bunch of people to hit a bind saying "Goto : www.learnaboutNShere.com to find out how to play the game !" and slap a purple icon on them, but they also need to set an example. A decent example, that is... not an example like "it's OK to distract 70 res of alien defences with a 10 res armoury you can recycle once the hive is down", or "That pesky onos who's been destroying stuff all game is escaping down a narrow corridor ? No probs, just slap a CC in front of it and watch him die".
The whole "win by fighting dirty / lose with 'honour'" thing is an entirely different thread though... it's just I think the guides shouldn't really be encouraging that kind of behaviour in new players.
Until those are established as exploits(which they haven't been), I don't see why they should be considered a bad example. If they're supported by the devs then they're valid tactics. I think they should be fixed myself, but at the moment they're a part of the game.
<!--QuoteBegin-Zek+Jul 5 2004, 02:21 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zek @ Jul 5 2004, 02:21 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> But personality is everything. You can't force someone to listen to you, and all the qualifications of a Guide would be worthless if they don't have the charisma to get people to go along with them. Since it sounds like Guides will always be on the job, someone who isn't appropriate for it on their own can't be expected to maintain a good attitude all the time just because of the icon next to their name. Quite frankly there are a lot of people in the NS community, myself not necessarily excluded, who don't know how to give advice without rubbing people the wrong way, to varying degrees of course. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> But that's just it.
Charisma, in an 'online sense' has very little to do with it.
It may sound weird, but think about it; most of the time it's not what you say, it's how you say it - in the real world your facial expressions and tone of voice convey this. Your actual usage of the words matters very very little.
Same thing goes for in game.
Generally, the way you can be most rude to someone online in game without an actual flame is to:
- Critize them - Use periods (weird i know, but true, periods in an online game generally mean you are describing something as a story, whereas no period is a piece of conversation text) - Ecessive wording
Being polite, conversly:
- Proper 'online' grammer; - Start of a sentence with capitial letter - Short and to the point, but helpful
So... in reality, an app process should be like this:
You meet someone online. You give them a run down how to act. Tell them how to type, have them agree to help others, as as part of the program they get a cool icon and be part of a friendly team.
It should not be:
You meet someone online. Look at their ehistory. Tell them that since it will be impossible to change, and they are not perfect and friendly, even though they could be great players, love the game, and know everything there is to know about NS, they aren't allowed.
This is called turning someone down because of their erecord. Their epenis. That's got to be the silliest, most ineffiecent way to run a program that I know of.
Why? Because new players don't know your ehistory. They have no idea of who you are. You could have previously been the rudest crap in the NS community, join the NSGuides, be given a chance to either shape up and serve the program, or get the hell out. A new player who sees the said person who was once rude all the time has no idea who they were. If the person acts rude, and word gets back to the head admins of the NSGuides programm, then he's cut. Everyone gets an interview, if they have the knowledge, they then get the chance, and they are then educated how to act and preform as an NSGuide.
If he fails, he fails, and good day to you sir. No hard feelings, all buisiness.
But to turn down people in the interview process because of their reputation reminds me strangely of high school; hell even middle school.
It's where your connection counts! Not about what you can do for the service.
Even so, that's okay. Connections are important, but for politics. Not for a business, and I'll tell you right now, I bet you the number one reason the first NSGuides failed was because it wasn't run like a business, but like hiring people for a political office.
If the NSGuides does not increase in size then it will fail as a mismanged coorpiration, as a coorpiration is exactly at what the NSGuides is trying to do.
There is some thing I think you've overlooked with regards to the rejection of certain applicants - obviously I can't speak on behalf of the Guide Leads as they were the ones who made the decisions, but;
There were more than 150 (estimated figure i was told on irc by vinin + chrome) proper applications (by 'proper' I mean people who actually took the application seriously... lord knows how many just spammed the submit button)
In the first 'wave' of guides, there are only 30 of us.
Like I said, I can't speak for the guides leads, so this may be way off, but it would make a lot of sense to me that they took the most 'appealing' from the applications to put them into the initial group - to start the trend and get the ball rolling. If you take up 200 from the off, you simply haev too many too quickly - how can they track all that many. 30 is a far more reasonable number... once we've 'proved' ourselves to be acting responsibily, then we won't need checking on nearly as often so they can focus their time on the other 150.
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So joining the NSGuides is actually a limitation of how I can respond to people?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have to be honest; I really don't understand what you're saying. I think we both completely mis-understood what the other was saying.
All I meant in my first post was that being a guide is more of a full time responsibility to helping - not being a guide does not prevent you from helping, but it means you have no obligation to help if asked... (I think that makes more sense...)
Comments
People were nasty to Vinin because they might felt that him explaining himself would imply that they were newb. Not many people want to acknowlege that they suck, or they are new. Some people just want to play the game, and thats ok. Some people want to practice to improve, which is also ok. Which is why we are going to do training sessions a few days a week. So that people who want to improve take an interest and make the first move to their improvement. We take care of the training, and anything else that is neccesary, to help people that want to learn.
Ok Luckee, my sig for about 4 years now is offensive (But true), so what do you suggest? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Support from the dev's isn't required, but I'm not going to deny the fact that it also makes things more comfortable when making an organistation. To be affiliated with the game itself is pretty nice. When you start to look at nsguides and nslearn comparitively (sp?) though discussing the merits or good/bad points comes hand in hand really though, dontcha think?
In regards to your training sessions, once again, these have already been ran in the past and we are also ressurecting these, as mentioned a few times in various places in the thread - you talk as if what you're doing is revolutionary. I see no conflicts of interest here, but at the same time I can't say that I personally agree with your attitudes, when comparing this situation to another guide group which was set up by some french players, called ns-acadamie we're going to be affiliating ourselves with them - linking to them for french players etc. But it's a shame (for the community) that the same won't be taking place between nslearn and nsguides.
As for your signature, well, I'm going to come round to this idea of attitude here, personally I don't agree with your attitude (note that isn't a flame). I just think that your signature sums it up. I'm not sure if this has been instigated by being rejected to be a guide from the nsguides program or what, but either way I don't think that public boards is where this should be discussed. If you want to discuss though feel free to e-mail me or PM me on the boards.
some vets can be really mean to them sometimes.....
when i started this game, nobody ever helped me. i asked and asked and asked some more, but everyone ignored me. took me 2 weeks to master the tech tree of the rines (ppl usually eject me like 2 minuits after i get in chair <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->), and one of the first few times i commed, i spent 10 minuits looking for a building called 'advanced armory' <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
People were nasty to Vinin because they might felt that him explaining himself would imply that they were newb. Not many people want to acknowlege that they suck, or they are new. Some people just want to play the game, and thats ok. Some people want to practice to improve, which is also ok. Which is why we are going to do training sessions a few days a week. So that people who want to improve take an interest and make the first move to their improvement. We take care of the training, and anything else that is neccesary, to help people that want to learn.
Ok Luckee, my sig for about 4 years now is offensive (But true), so what do you suggest? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Do not bring BFTG into this. We dont need the drama.. BFTG is a tournament not a training program.
BTW.. Flayra supported BFTG.. Read the news.. Under b2 release.
People were nasty to Vinin because they might felt that him explaining himself would imply that they were newb. Not many people want to acknowlege that they suck, or they are new. Some people just want to play the game, and thats ok. Some people want to practice to improve, which is also ok. Which is why we are going to do training sessions a few days a week. So that people who want to improve take an interest and make the first move to their improvement. We take care of the training, and anything else that is neccesary, to help people that want to learn.
Ok Luckee, my sig for about 4 years now is offensive (But true), so what do you suggest? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Support from the dev's isn't required, but I'm not going to deny the fact that it also makes things more comfortable when making an organistation. To be affiliated with the game itself is pretty nice. When you start to look at nsguides and nslearn comparitively (sp?) though discussing the merits or good/bad points comes hand in hand really though, dontcha think?
In regards to your training sessions, once again, these have already been ran in the past and we are also ressurecting these, as mentioned a few times in various places in the thread - you talk as if what you're doing is revolutionary. I see no conflicts of interest here, but at the same time I can't say that I personally agree with your attitudes, when comparing this situation to another guide group which was set up by some french players, called ns-acadamie we're going to be affiliating ourselves with them - linking to them for french players etc. But it's a shame (for the community) that the same won't be taking place between nslearn and nsguides.
As for your signature, well, I'm going to come round to this idea of attitude here, personally I don't agree with your attitude (note that isn't a flame). I just think that your signature sums it up. I'm not sure if this has been instigated by being rejected to be a guide from the nsguides program or what, but either way I don't think that public boards is where this should be discussed. If you want to discuss though feel free to e-mail me or PM me on the boards. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I just want it done right.
The fact that I or several other players who know the game as well as I do didn't even get an interview because of "x y and z", leads me to believe that the program is flawed, much like the first one was.
I already have a model on how to run my sessions. I experimented with it on a BFG practice, and I saw damn near instant improvement on people learning how to fade, and lerk and etc... I have 2 demos and a teamspeak recording waiting to be hosted.
Please continue to treat me different, as it is justified by CAL-Jared's remarks.
have fun with your program, I know I'm gonna have a blast with mine.
<!--QuoteBegin-BobTheJanitor+Jul 2 2004, 11:11 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BobTheJanitor @ Jul 2 2004, 11:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-kuperaye+Jul 2 2004, 08:56 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kuperaye @ Jul 2 2004, 08:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-George_The_Gorge+Jul 2 2004, 08:54 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (George_The_Gorge @ Jul 2 2004, 08:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ns guides should be able to see other people's config files so they can know what key to tell them to press and what cvar to change. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
that could be easily abused by any clanner guides ... :/ <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
By stealing scripts off someone who's been playing for two days? You lost me there...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
p.s. I love your comment Bob, that was just awesome. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you both missed the point of kuperaye's post, in that if the guides were given the ability to look at someone's config, why wouldn't they go ahead and look into someone like <insert big scripter here>'s config file and take what they wanted. It would be easily abuseable and there's no denying that.
Cheers!
<!--QuoteBegin-BobTheJanitor+Jul 2 2004, 11:11 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BobTheJanitor @ Jul 2 2004, 11:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-kuperaye+Jul 2 2004, 08:56 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kuperaye @ Jul 2 2004, 08:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-George_The_Gorge+Jul 2 2004, 08:54 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (George_The_Gorge @ Jul 2 2004, 08:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ns guides should be able to see other people's config files so they can know what key to tell them to press and what cvar to change. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
that could be easily abused by any clanner guides ... :/ <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
By stealing scripts off someone who's been playing for two days? You lost me there...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
p.s. I love your comment Bob, that was just awesome. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you both missed the point of kuperaye's post, in that if the guides were given the ability to look at someone's config, why wouldn't they go ahead and look into someone like <insert big scripter here>'s config file and take what they wanted. It would be easily abuseable and there's no denying that.
Cheers! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yea, I do not think it would be a good idea to view ppls configs.. If they are new.. They have not changed anything.. And if we think they have we can have them restore defaults..
BTW, Most of the top player's configs are public <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Ive heard/seen two NSGuides CC block fades/onos, defending themselves with comments like "its a legal tactic"...Meh?
Here we have a program that's currently in the progress of being set up, which means of course that there are not yet enough Guides around, but that's got direct support from the devs, as the icon and the re-activatable features (the green text should still be in the chat code, only not assigned to an auth-group) indicate, that's creating a whole hub for newbies, complete with a dedicated sub-site to ns.org, training servers, and a custom tailored map, that ensures that no jerks become Guides by the means of selection practices that <i>I</i> consider too harsh, and you keep poking on its flaws. Of course the program isn't perfect - it has not even fully launched yet. How about we wait six months until after it did, look at what it accomplished, and then discuss its merits? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow, gone for 2 days and so much to respond to.
Because already the programm has failed once. To take a second run at something, well you better damn well be doing a good job at it or else it will fail again, because it was no different than the first.
The point of this thread is to discuss the current flaws I see the NSGuide program to get an idea if it's actually going to have a chance at succeeding or not.
And yes, the requirements for being an NSGuide are totally out of whack, which I should explain further down.
Also, this thread was to establish idea's on how to fix programs, hopefully they may be fixed.
Deadly Flashlight:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Its true, I was a candidate for the guides program but I got the boot after I came into a server with the name "yuck yuck ima <f bomb>", and when asked to change my name, I changed it to "yuck yuck ima <modified f bomb>", and when asked again, I changed it to "yuck yuck ima fux". About two hours later I found out I was dropped. And I was pretty enthusiastic about becoming a guide and bringing new players into the game <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm gonna have to go with the NSGuides side here and say that's a pretty stupid thing to do. Why do you think they asked you to change your name the first time? Because they didn't like the word yuck?
lol jeez dude
Anyhow... at least they gave you a chance. I know they turned down many people simply because of their past record; this makes no sense to me as they should give almost everyone a chance but drop those who do not learn to comply with NSGuide rules.
Same principle as hiring for a job. Unless you have a ton of applications flowing in to meet your target amount, then I wouldn't suggest turning too many of them down.
The only real requirements should be knowledge and dedication. Personality easily changes on a situation, especially if the said person wishes to successful at their said enterprise. If someone doesn't believe this, then you've never seen a salesman.
Jojo:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You are so arrogant. You talk about how people THINK they know the game, but you are also one of those people. You dont understand the game is here to have fun and play it the way you want it to be played.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Last time I checked, playing the game is always to get better at it. Teching them the game so that they have fun is an arbitrary point, as their idea of fun could be dropping 4 ccs at the start of the game as commander. One perons's idea of fun may not be another.
However, we can all agree on one thing, and that is if people are playing the game <b>seriously</b>, they will naturally play it to be the best they can be.
Shanks:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Q: "What Do Nsguides Have Over Other Help Hands"
Here's your answer: An obligation to help. It really is as simple as that. Guides are 'on duty' so to speak all the time - if we are around, we are expected to help. We are expected to (an extent) leave other things and go out of our way to help.
You are not.
No one is saying you can't or shouldn't - you should be encouraged to - the more people that help out the better, but the simple difference is when you don't feel like helping, you don't have to. You can either tell the beginner to F-off, or just keep quiet and carry on acting as if they aren't there.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So joining the NSGuides is actually a limitation of how I can respond to people? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I mean, ns guides is going to have things in the setup installer (nice idea btw 'lorn),<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm glad someone is listening.
Jane:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Frolorn, first you say ?there's no guarentee that the person will be receptive to the green text? (Example #1), then upon learning that it has yet to be implemented you say that if we don?t have green text then all will be lost (Example #2). You are making points that are very contradictory. Is this post just to stir up some drama, or try to ruin a group of new player helpers before we are off our feet, or what? My comment to you is the same it has been to many others who say things like this, please give us a chance.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Frolorn has yet to post in this thread. Forlorn has yet to contridict himself. Notice, there is a large difference between being 'receptive' to something, "Get lost dude I don't care what you have to say!" vs. 'recognize', "What is that?".
Jane, by the way, if a new player was to ask you about scripting and how they could do it, what would you say?
Also, bunnyhopping as well?
These questions aren't to put you on the spot or trip you up, by the way. Just be honest.
Explanation of NsGuides on install/help box's.
More NsGuides.
Interactive site listed in helpbox's in game.
- Common strategys, tips, etc etc.
- Faq guides
- Config explanations
- System Performance etc etc.
Just a basic idea of whats up in a game and how to make the most of it.
I know most/all arnt even my ideas and I proabably leaving out a ton but I believe its a good start.
Yeah, actually the Frolorn thing was a joke, but I rarely uset smilies so there's no need to apologize. (just laugh...)
But,... okay, you don't know much about scripting, or bhopping, however, that's okay. The point I'm making here is that not all NSGuides may be perfect, and therefore if keep other people out of the program, such as people who lack a bit more of a 'friendly, perky, and peppy' attitude but know more other aspects of the game, why not take them instead?
As long as everyone has something to offer to the table then you have a high chance of succeeding with the programm.
However... I'll reserve comments to see the next batch of NSGuides are released, I just can't imagine seeing close to 200 fresh NSGuides all the with the same perfect perspectis on game player you wish seem to have.
Someone who is highly skilled but not willing to teach these aspects to new players should not be a Guide. I've seen skilled members of respectable clans join a pub server and save for Fade or whatever without uttering a word to their team. I've seen plenty of very skilled players just get **** off at a newbie who screwed something up, scare him away or kick/ban him. I don't want someone like that to be a Guide for new players, regardless of what valuable skills they can teach.
Someone who is highly skilled but not willing to teach these aspects to new players should not be a Guide. I've seen skilled members of respectable clans join a pub server and save for Fade or whatever without uttering a word to their team. I've seen plenty of very skilled players just get **** off at a newbie who screwed something up, scare him away or kick/ban him. I don't want someone like that to be a Guide for new players, regardless of what valuable skills they can teach. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Anyhow... at least they gave you a chance. I know they turned down many people simply because of their past record; this makes no sense to me as they should give almost everyone a chance but drop those who do not learn to comply with NSGuide rules.
Same principle as hiring for a job. Unless you have a ton of applications flowing in to meet your target amount, then I wouldn't suggest turning too many of them down.
The only real requirements should be knowledge and dedication. Personality easily changes on a situation, especially if the said person wishes to successful at their said enterprise. If someone doesn't believe this, then you've never seen a salesman.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is how I plan to run my sessions for #NSlearn. Whether NSguides uses that session model is up to them.
Its a good download, we actually went over fading with someone who wasn't comfortable fading, now he is. You can watch his skill evolve right before your eyes if you watch this demo.
I plan on doing these kind of things hopefully 3 times a week.
My staff is full of top competitive players, that will be paitent with people and do their best to get newer players to learn how to play better.
Ive heard/seen two NSGuides CC block fades/onos, defending themselves with comments like "its a legal tactic"...Meh? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seconded.
It's all very well recruiting a bunch of people to hit a bind saying "Goto : www.learnaboutNShere.com to find out how to play the game !" and slap a purple icon on them, but they also need to set an example.
A decent example, that is... not an example like "it's OK to distract 70 res of alien defences with a 10 res armoury you can recycle once the hive is down", or "That pesky onos who's been destroying stuff all game is escaping down a narrow corridor ? No probs, just slap a CC in front of it and watch him die".
The whole "win by fighting dirty / lose with 'honour'" thing is an entirely different thread though... it's just I think the guides shouldn't really be encouraging that kind of behaviour in new players.
But that's just it.
Charisma, in an 'online sense' has very little to do with it.
It may sound weird, but think about it; most of the time it's not what you say, it's how you say it - in the real world your facial expressions and tone of voice convey this. Your actual usage of the words matters very very little.
Same thing goes for in game.
Generally, the way you can be most rude to someone online in game without an actual flame is to:
- Critize them
- Use periods (weird i know, but true, periods in an online game generally mean you are describing something as a story, whereas no period is a piece of conversation text)
- Ecessive wording
Being polite, conversly:
- Proper 'online' grammer;
- Start of a sentence with capitial letter
- Short and to the point, but helpful
So... in reality, an app process should be like this:
You meet someone online. You give them a run down how to act. Tell them how to type, have them agree to help others, as as part of the program they get a cool icon and be part of a friendly team.
It should not be:
You meet someone online. Look at their ehistory. Tell them that since it will be impossible to change, and they are not perfect and friendly, even though they could be great players, love the game, and know everything there is to know about NS, they aren't allowed.
This is called turning someone down because of their erecord. Their epenis. That's got to be the silliest, most ineffiecent way to run a program that I know of.
Why? Because new players don't know your ehistory. They have no idea of who you are. You could have previously been the rudest crap in the NS community, join the NSGuides, be given a chance to either shape up and serve the program, or get the hell out. A new player who sees the said person who was once rude all the time has no idea who they were. If the person acts rude, and word gets back to the head admins of the NSGuides programm, then he's cut. Everyone gets an interview, if they have the knowledge, they then get the chance, and they are then educated how to act and preform as an NSGuide.
If he fails, he fails, and good day to you sir. No hard feelings, all buisiness.
But to turn down people in the interview process because of their reputation reminds me strangely of high school; hell even middle school.
It's where your connection counts! Not about what you can do for the service.
Even so, that's okay. Connections are important, but for politics. Not for a business, and I'll tell you right now, I bet you the number one reason the first NSGuides failed was because it wasn't run like a business, but like hiring people for a political office.
If the NSGuides does not increase in size then it will fail as a mismanged coorpiration, as a coorpiration is exactly at what the NSGuides is trying to do.
There were more than 150 (estimated figure i was told on irc by vinin + chrome) proper applications (by 'proper' I mean people who actually took the application seriously... lord knows how many just spammed the submit button)
In the first 'wave' of guides, there are only 30 of us.
Like I said, I can't speak for the guides leads, so this may be way off, but it would make a lot of sense to me that they took the most 'appealing' from the applications to put them into the initial group - to start the trend and get the ball rolling. If you take up 200 from the off, you simply haev too many too quickly - how can they track all that many. 30 is a far more reasonable number... once we've 'proved' ourselves to be acting responsibily, then we won't need checking on nearly as often so they can focus their time on the other 150.
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So joining the NSGuides is actually a limitation of how I can respond to people?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have to be honest; I really don't understand what you're saying. I think we both completely mis-understood what the other was saying.
All I meant in my first post was that being a guide is more of a full time responsibility to helping - not being a guide does not prevent you from helping, but it means you have no obligation to help if asked... (I think that makes more sense...)