can u make this with all the dots those little circles, and get rid of the big offcenter crossair completely? cause that circle is annoying witht he dots around it, so just get rid of it. like this.....
I'd rather see random shots using radius zones, such as 5 random shots in zone1, 1 or 2 random shots in zone2, 3 or 4 random shots in zone3..
It's random and will still hit what your aiming at close-range instead of haveing the chance that all 10 shots were randomised along the outter edge of the max radius like all you whimps are crying about.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> the point of reviving this was?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To start a random flamming so they can lock this post too!!!
<!--QuoteBegin-kann_nix+Oct 6 2004, 03:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kann_nix @ Oct 6 2004, 03:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> they made this obsolete in b5 didn't they?
the pellets seem to spread randomly and all over the place <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> no, if you read you'd notice that the decals are random, that's all, hit any alien structure, and you'll see it's all the same. now please someone close this no more thread necromancy
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--QuoteBegin-BAshh+Oct 6 2004, 02:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BAshh @ Oct 6 2004, 02:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-kann_nix+Oct 6 2004, 03:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kann_nix @ Oct 6 2004, 03:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> they made this obsolete in b5 didn't they?
the pellets seem to spread randomly and all over the place <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> no, if you read you'd notice that the decals are random, that's all, hit any alien structure, and you'll see it's all the same. now please someone close this no more thread necromancy <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, I believe in b5 they moved the shot spot to be more in line with the crosshair. Anyone to confirm?
in beta 4, the crosshair was off to the side and that was remedied in B5 with the more correctly set crosshair having all of the central pellets located in/on the actual default crosshair, the shot location remains the same as Tyr's crosshair still is pellet accurate
FurySilver Fish Hand CatchJoin Date: 2003-08-14Member: 19673Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-Thantos+Oct 7 2004, 02:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Thantos @ Oct 7 2004, 02:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ahm... this is kind of cheating tho <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> technically no
considering that the handgun xhair also points to where the bullet will hit <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Veets+Jun 15 2004, 04:45 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Veets @ Jun 15 2004, 04:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think the point is awareness, not a debate of skill. Like it's been said before, some people have known about the issue for quite some time. That may turn it in to a point of elitism for some, but I'd rather see it as a result of their playing the game at a competitive level where understanding the game mechanics goes hand in hand with their skill level.
I play mmorpg's where the element of "randomness" is eliminated simply by knowing the system behind the numbers. More often than not people don't bother or care about the mechanics until a point where they realise there's a disparity in what they can do and what someone else with equal base ability can do. At this point someone can just ask the community and all is revealed.
That's what this forum seems to be (along with other ns community forums) in terms of questioning HOW something works to become better as a player. The shotgun is just one issue and it has become perfectly clear for people. Make it a purely random weapon and you can introduce even more confusing issues that will be continually questioned. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ahem no. To say that it is a result of playing the game at a competitive level is not true, since any noob could get a link from some noob clan forum straight to this article and just download the new shotty sight. Now he knows from the very 1st game he plays where the shells go.
My opinion is that the game as far as possible should be equal for all players. Skill should be determined by adaptation to the <b>game environments</b> (learning a map and developing tactics) and to the <b>other players</b> (for instance knowing when and not to try something a bit risky). Now obviously people will have different hardware and software, but I think that either everyone should have (not have access to) the shotgun sight or not at all. I personally think it's ugly, unrealistic and an eyesore, but if everyone had its benefit then I wouldn't complain.
I think the best way to fix this is to make the shotty random. If you still have a field of damage then you would still know roughly where to aim. For me (someone previously touched on the subject in this thread) NS isn't about who is "teh leetzor aimzor", it's about who can develop a strategy -whether on the ground or in the CC- to counter the strategies being employed by the other team. It has it's roots so heavily buried in the RTS but so many players still treat it as a multiplayer FPS.
The shotgun as it is gives players with a non-official sight the ability to be far more accurate at long range. I say make the shotty random and (if it isn't asking too much, which it probably is) reduce its damage with distance. Of course if the very nature of the Frontiersman shotgun shell is uniform with every cartridge, then I'll accept hands-down the current damae pattern as 'realistic', and will take back the relevant comments I've just made. I suspect, however, that it is indeed based on a more contemporary shotgun shell which will not do uniform spread damage.
EDIT: Just finished reading pages 4 and 5 and a lot of what I've said has already been discussed. But still it's one more opinion that the devs can draw upon...
You obviously haven't read what I (and many others) have posted about the random shotgun still retaining skill. I'll try making it very easy for you to understand...
The shotgun is a close quarters weapon.
Hence it should be best close up and much, much worse further away (considering the amount of damage it does).
If you're shooting at something close range then it shouldn't be difficult to get all the shotgun shots to hit random or not (as long as they are random within a specific area then it's still valid).
A noob with a shotgun in real life (provided he could deal with the recoil*) would still be able to hit something at close range, all you have to do is pull the trigger. *Which was taken out for some reason, I don't know why, devs bring it back.
This is why the shotgun has a lower rate of fire that the automatics.
This is why the shotgun takes longer to reload than the automatics.
This is why "surprise surprise" the shotgun is not the default weapon, because it is not versatile but it is superior to the lmg.
Hope that was easy enough for you to read. Instead of saying what you've said before try providing some counter-arguments for what others have said. I'm prepared to admit I'm wrong if you, or anyone else, comes up with a point that shoots the pro-random shotty posts dead in the water...
ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
At range, less pellets will hit anyways, so damage done is less. It's fine the way it is. Although I might like a lessened rate of fire in exchange for an increase in damage.
The very nature of a shotgun shell means that its contents have not been given a streamlined shape. Regardless of whether less of the shell contents hits at long range, I'd still prefer the damage to be reduced. The projectiles would lose a lot of speed and also fall to the ground.
Obviously this is too much to expect from a game but I do feel that either a short, cut-off range or a reduction in damage relative to range would help to eliminate the 'sniping' that you can do at the moment (either with experience-based knowledge on the spread pattern, or with the aid of this or a similar crosshair).
P.S. Please don't post saying that the pistol is much more effective at longrange, it's wasted breath. The very fact that you can 'snipe' with the shotgun is my gripe.
ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
I'm not sure if it's easy to code in distance calculation when firing. I mean, if the game to calculate the distance betweenthe gun and the target for every single bullet fired from every single marine/turret etc, the server would get overwhelmed very easily right? Not to mention lag compensation and probabvly a host of other issues escaping my mind right now.
Random 4tw then <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
EDIT: Then again I wouldn't mind random with +damage and -rof
Comments
It's random and will still hit what your aiming at close-range instead of haveing the chance that all 10 shots were randomised along the outter edge of the max radius like all you whimps are crying about.
To start a random flamming so they can lock this post too!!!
the pellets seem to spread randomly and all over the place
the pellets seem to spread randomly and all over the place <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
no, if you read you'd notice that the decals are random, that's all, hit any alien structure, and you'll see it's all the same. now please someone close this no more thread necromancy
the pellets seem to spread randomly and all over the place <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
no, if you read you'd notice that the decals are random, that's all, hit any alien structure, and you'll see it's all the same. now please someone close this no more thread necromancy <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, I believe in b5 they moved the shot spot to be more in line with the crosshair. Anyone to confirm?
technically no
considering that the handgun xhair also points to where the bullet will hit <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I play mmorpg's where the element of "randomness" is eliminated simply by knowing the system behind the numbers. More often than not people don't bother or care about the mechanics until a point where they realise there's a disparity in what they can do and what someone else with equal base ability can do. At this point someone can just ask the community and all is revealed.
That's what this forum seems to be (along with other ns community forums) in terms of questioning HOW something works to become better as a player. The shotgun is just one issue and it has become perfectly clear for people. Make it a purely random weapon and you can introduce even more confusing issues that will be continually questioned. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ahem no. To say that it is a result of playing the game at a competitive level is not true, since any noob could get a link from some noob clan forum straight to this article and just download the new shotty sight. Now he knows from the very 1st game he plays where the shells go.
My opinion is that the game as far as possible should be equal for all players. Skill should be determined by adaptation to the <b>game environments</b> (learning a map and developing tactics) and to the <b>other players</b> (for instance knowing when and not to try something a bit risky). Now obviously people will have different hardware and software, but I think that either everyone should have (not have access to) the shotgun sight or not at all. I personally think it's ugly, unrealistic and an eyesore, but if everyone had its benefit then I wouldn't complain.
I think the best way to fix this is to make the shotty random. If you still have a field of damage then you would still know roughly where to aim. For me (someone previously touched on the subject in this thread) NS isn't about who is "teh leetzor aimzor", it's about who can develop a strategy -whether on the ground or in the CC- to counter the strategies being employed by the other team. It has it's roots so heavily buried in the RTS but so many players still treat it as a multiplayer FPS.
The shotgun as it is gives players with a non-official sight the ability to be far more accurate at long range. I say make the shotty random and (if it isn't asking too much, which it probably is) reduce its damage with distance. Of course if the very nature of the Frontiersman shotgun shell is uniform with every cartridge, then I'll accept hands-down the current damae pattern as 'realistic', and will take back the relevant comments I've just made. I suspect, however, that it is indeed based on a more contemporary shotgun shell which will not do uniform spread damage.
EDIT: Just finished reading pages 4 and 5 and a lot of what I've said has already been discussed. But still it's one more opinion that the devs can draw upon...
my bad shouldnt be posting so this can die
/sneaks away
Against anything random and always will be.
If it was me, Lmg and hmg would shoot in a strait line.
So I hope sincerely that they keap the shotgun like that for the sake of skill.
I don't have any problems getting owned by a perfect shot.
The shotgun is a close quarters weapon.
Hence it should be best close up and much, much worse further away (considering the amount of damage it does).
If you're shooting at something close range then it shouldn't be difficult to get all the shotgun shots to hit random or not (as long as they are random within a specific area then it's still valid).
A noob with a shotgun in real life (provided he could deal with the recoil*) would still be able to hit something at close range, all you have to do is pull the trigger.
*Which was taken out for some reason, I don't know why, devs bring it back.
This is why the shotgun has a lower rate of fire that the automatics.
This is why the shotgun takes longer to reload than the automatics.
This is why "surprise surprise" the shotgun is not the default weapon, because it is not versatile but it is superior to the lmg.
********************************************************************
Hope that was easy enough for you to read. Instead of saying what you've said before try providing some counter-arguments for what others have said. I'm prepared to admit I'm wrong if you, or anyone else, comes up with a point that shoots the pro-random shotty posts dead in the water...
Obviously this is too much to expect from a game but I do feel that either a short, cut-off range or a reduction in damage relative to range would help to eliminate the 'sniping' that you can do at the moment (either with experience-based knowledge on the spread pattern, or with the aid of this or a similar crosshair).
P.S. Please don't post saying that the pistol is much more effective at longrange, it's wasted breath. The very fact that you can 'snipe' with the shotgun is my gripe.
Random 4tw then <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
EDIT: Then again I wouldn't mind random with +damage and -rof